Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference -- 03 Feb 2014

<trackbot> Date: 03 February 2014

<karen> Last note was sent to list on 15 December not November

<karen> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces

<karen> Ivan: task forces identified

<scribe> scribe: tzviya

liza: apprive minutes from last week

karen: unsure if minutes corrected, missed a few points

<dauwhe> http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27

<ivan> http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27.html

markus: have not sent corrections to thierry yet

<tmichel> send me the corrections that are needed ...

karen: my rec is to update the minutes and approve next week

<tmichel> And yes we will approuved the minutes next week

Liza: focus on metadata task force

Metadata Task force

Liza: Bill and madi will walk through objectives

<ivan> TF wiki page

<Bill_Kasdorf> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata

<madi> Did she just say...exciting?

Liza: and scope

BillK:

Bill_Kasdorf: created framework for discussion on wiki https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata
... idea is to group discussion by topic
... focus on getting thoughts onto wiki (as opposed to list, but encourage) discussion
...Scope: 2 tasks: identify problems of publishers and metadata
... and collect use cases
... Ivan asked if this is the correct group within W3C to work on this
... our group is appropriate to raise issues, not necessarily solve them
... Markus suggested raising what the issues are, get the conversation going
... How broad do we want to make this?
... publishers tend to focus on supply chain metadata because it gets publications out into the world
... there is a whole world of library metadata that is very active
... Do we want to include library (cataloging) metadata? Do we want to think about interoperability?
... will this lead to a metadata IG in W3C?

Ivan: if we identify a hole in HTML, we know where to go to work on that
... this is different, because there is not a group for that in w3c, so this could lead to an IG
... it would need to be well-documented and explained to W3C management

Rob: distinguishing between cataloging and supply chain metadata will be difficult
... for example, which is title?

Luc: supply chain metadata is important, yes. We would like to figure out how to enrich the product internally
... there is global metadata (author, title, etc) and there is metadata inside the product
... We see that HTML is not a semantic language - this is content metadata

Bill_Kasdorf: I see this in my work through use of generic tagging, such as <div.metadata>

<gcapiel> What about Schema.org?

Bill_Kasdorf: publishers are doing this in non-standard or non-normative ways

<azaroth> Isn't interoperability "how" not "what"?

Liza: listing publishers' problems today: publishers get around this, but there are not common solutions

<Luc> §1

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask isn't interop "how" not "what"?

<Luc> +1

Tzviya: Sub-package level metadata is something that publishers love about XML (and prevents them from moving to HTML)
... more granular metadata will be a game changer in shifting from XML to HTML

Rob: Interop seems to be something that we can approach later
... more of a how to we approach this, then a "what" is this?

Bill_Kasdorf: that is true, but it also addresses the need from common practices

<azaroth> +1 to separation of syntax and semantics .... where possible

Ivan: Let's separate 3 problem areas: mechanism for expresssion (syntax), vocabularies (and relationship of vocab), id mechanisms for targets
... of these 3 the syntax is the simplest issue
... there are well-defined existing syntaxes

Liza: Who is audience?

Bill_kasdorf: Should we include library/cataloging metadata in scope?

rob: We should focus on the people who are here, the publishers

<madi> I can't seem to un-mute myself, but I agree with Rob. Let's keep with the publishers.

Bill_Kasdorf: there are huge undertakings in library world and little agreement

Madi: I agree, particularly with Liza and Rob
... We should stick with publisher (supply chain) metadata. Publishers are behind the times
... we have an opportunity to bring publishing up to speed

ivan: Who is the target of the metadata that publishers produce?
... someone put schema.org into the notes. If we want to work with schema.org, then we need to know what partners schema.org recognizes

Bill_Kasdorf: Magazine world created verbose vocabulary for recipes. Within a specific group, there is a need for more expressive vocabulary than more widely recognized

Luc: publishers want consumers to discover books and to be able to improve accessibility

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to say schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)

Rob: only a small portion of library world likes schema.org
... we need to keep an eye on non-packaged content. Content lives outside the web - let's see what goes on outside EPUB

Bill_Kasdorf

Bill_Kasdorf: extensive vocabulary for magazine recipes was for content management, not delivery

<lizadaly> +1 for emphasizing outcomes and benefits

Karen: we need to be compelling about the business benefits, beginning to hear about the benefits

<lizadaly> Maybe as a flip side to focusing on 'problems'?

Karen: are there other business benefits that we'd find compelling?

tzviya: we need to make a distinction between content management "metadata" and supply chain metadata - we have too many subject areas to manage

<mgylling> +1

'Bill_Kasdorf: we may be able to recommend a method for HOW to manage different vocabularies not what they are

Ivan: the line between adaptive UI and metadata is fuzzy - we may have to draw a clear line
... it may be useful to do a cataloging of existing vocabularies

<Suzanne> +1

<ivan> http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/

Ivan: without mapping, just a list with information about what they are and how they relate
... similar to linked data vocab set (link above)

data/s/open

Bill_Kadrof: these are all RDF vocabularies

<azaroth> Ivan: Yep :S

Bill_Kasdorf: Please go to wiki and comments

<lizadaly> Yes please!

liza: we have consensus that will focus on supply chain (publisher) metadata (not library)

<lizadaly> RECESS

Bill_Kasdorf: is thus group likely to go to the step of W3C document as deliverable? What are the deliverables for this group?

<azaroth> Notes: We're primarily doing the Note because of the transition to a Working Group from Community Group

Markus: first thing should be the low hanging fruit: issues that pubs deal with

<ivan> +1 to Markus

Markus: things that are too costly, too hard, not possible

<azaroth> Rather than something formal for the IG

Markus: see brain dump from Luc and others like him about things that cannot be done

<azaroth> +1 to Markus

Markus: this will bring us the data points toward next steps

<karen> +1

<Luc> +1

<astearns> complaints *are* use cases. "I would like to..."

Markus: these complaints are use cases

Luc: I will add use cases to wiki

I will add STM use cases

Bill_Kasdorf: send note to list when add info to wiki

Liza: Topic: next week's meeting

<lizadaly> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html

Liza: DOM pagination

Markus: Looking for a task force lead and participants

<ivan> +q

Markus: programmatic access to pagination

<ivan> q later

<lizadaly> (Not me, we've given up on pagination)

<azaroth> (+1 to liza)

Markus: publishers are doing this is in different ways
... this is about attaching events and using the DOM

<lizadaly> -1000 page transition animations

Dave: the CSS WG is aware of this and beginning to discuss transitions associated with page

Ivan: do we know who will be at EDUPUB in Salt Lake City?

<Luc> +1000 to Liza comment on no page transition animations

jean, tzviya, billK, markus, Julie, Ivan, gerardo will attend

Ivan: Should I create repo for annotations?

Rob: yes

<scribe> ACTION: ivan create annotations repo [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Create annotations repo [on Ivan Herman - due 2014-02-10].

Ivan: officially recognize Julie Morris

<TomDN> bye

<dauwhe> Start of thread on page transitions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0093.html

- DRAFT -

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

03 Feb 2014

Attendees

Contents

Metadata Task force

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output