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XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 08 April 2009

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0011.html
Seen
Alessio Cartocci, Gregory Rosmaita, Markus Gylling, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Tina Holmboe
Chair
Roland Merrick
Scribe
Shane McCarron
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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13:41:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-irc

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13:41:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

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13:41:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2

13:41:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

13:41:38 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
13:41:38 <trackbot> Date: 08 April 2009
13:41:52 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0011.html
13:41:58 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:43:35 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started

13:43:42 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland

13:44:27 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

13:45:31 <ShaneM> zakim, code?

Shane McCarron: zakim, code?

13:45:31 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ShaneM

13:45:33 <Zakim> +Markus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Markus

13:46:45 <Zakim> + +46.8.64.5.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +46.8.64.5.aaaa

13:48:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:48:15 <alessio> zakim, IPcaller is Alessio

Alessio Cartocci: zakim, IPcaller is Alessio

13:48:15 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it

13:49:06 <ShaneM> Scribe: ShaneM

(Scribe set to Shane McCarron)

13:49:32 <ShaneM> Topic: Action Items

1. Action Items

13:49:50 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/pendingreview

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/pendingreview

13:50:28 <ShaneM> Actions 42 and 47 continue.

Actions 42 and 47 continue.

13:50:40 <ShaneM> Action 58 and 59 continue

ACTION-58 and 59 continue

13:50:40 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 58

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 58

13:50:55 <ShaneM> Actions 58 and 59 continue.

Actions 58 and 59 continue.

13:51:47 <ShaneM> Discussion about Action 65

Discussion about ACTION-65

13:51:58 <ShaneM> Gregory submitted http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Mar/0102.html

Gregory submitted http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Mar/0102.html

13:52:11 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Mar/0103.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Mar/0103.html

13:54:24 <ShaneM> I missed these when I was making edits.

I missed these when I was making edits.

13:55:44 <ShaneM> Roland is happy with examples.

Roland is happy with examples.

13:57:20 <Tina> Zakim, mute me

Tina Holmboe: Zakim, mute me

13:57:20 <Zakim> sorry, Tina, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Tina, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

13:58:43 <ShaneM> Shane will update the spec with option 2 from message 102.

Shane will update the spec with option 2 from message 102.

13:58:44 <oedipus> examples also on the wg's wiki

Gregory Rosmaita: examples also on the wg's wiki

13:58:54 <ShaneM> ShaneM: note that aria is not presently part of xhtml2

Shane McCarron: note that aria is not presently part of xhtml2

13:59:36 <oedipus> shane, i used aria to show that without explicit binding using aria, there isn't a means of binding a P with a list, save for embedding the list in the P

Gregory Rosmaita: shane, i used aria to show that without explicit binding using aria, there isn't a means of binding a P with a list, save for embedding the list in the P

13:59:42 <ShaneM> Tina: asks whether we *can* include aria in XHTML 2.  The ARIA spec uses something *role-like* that is not XHTML role.

Tina Holmboe: asks whether we *can* include aria in XHTML 2. The ARIA spec uses something *role-like* that is not XHTML role.

14:00:10 <oedipus> aria example ~can be used in a best practices

Gregory Rosmaita: aria example ~can be used in a best practices

14:00:20 <ShaneM> close ACTION-65

close ACTION-65

14:00:20 <trackbot> ACTION-65 - draft example of P with prose list and structural list closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-65 - draft example of P with prose list and structural list closed

14:00:38 <oedipus> tina, i have asked for clarification on role-like ARIA as opposed to ARIA as an extension of Role Module

Gregory Rosmaita: tina, i have asked for clarification on role-like ARIA as opposed to ARIA as an extension of Role Module

14:00:57 <ShaneM> oedipus: didn't you ask for that clarification months ago?

Gregory Rosmaita: didn't you ask for that clarification months ago?

14:01:04 <oedipus> answer was that the Role module was thought to be behind the ARIA spec in process

Gregory Rosmaita: answer was that the Role module was thought to be behind the ARIA spec in process

14:01:08 <oedipus> shane, yes, i did

Gregory Rosmaita: shane, yes, i did

14:01:32 <oedipus> shane, and continue to do so - will again today at PF meeeting if i make it

Gregory Rosmaita: shane, and continue to do so - will again today at PF meeeting if i make it

14:01:44 <oedipus> i have an action item open on it in PF

Gregory Rosmaita: i have an action item open on it in PF

14:02:00 <ShaneM> If Role were at CR then this would not be an issue, right?

If Role were at CR then this would not be an issue, right?

14:02:35 <oedipus> GJR speaking as individual not happy that ARIA spec states role-like, rather than citing Role, but the argument was can't cite a spec that isn't a recommendation as normative

Gregory Rosmaita: GJR speaking as individual not happy that ARIA spec states role-like, rather than citing Role, but the argument was can't cite a spec that isn't a recommendation as normative

14:03:07 <oedipus> GJR: er, um - i don't like the fudging in ARIA - steven, can you add that to your review of ARIA?

Gregory Rosmaita: er, um - i don't like the fudging in ARIA - steven, can you add that to your review of ARIA? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:03:29 <oedipus> that ARIA is derived from Role, uses its extension mechanism, etc.

Gregory Rosmaita: that ARIA is derived from Role, uses its extension mechanism, etc.

14:03:38 <oedipus> shanem, thanks - didn't know

Gregory Rosmaita: shanem, thanks - didn't know

14:04:09 <oedipus> will ping steven about comment - ARIA comments due 9 April 2009

Gregory Rosmaita: will ping steven about comment - ARIA comments due 9 April 2009

14:04:15 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/42

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/42

14:04:35 <oedipus> shanem, steven has the action to review ARIA, right?

Gregory Rosmaita: shanem, steven has the action to review ARIA, right?

14:04:39 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Mar/0084.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Mar/0084.html

14:04:51 <ShaneM> Wow - that was a long time ago.

Wow - that was a long time ago.

14:06:16 <ShaneM> Topic: ACtion 51 lightly review WAI-ARIA

2. ACTION-51 lightly review WAI-ARIA

14:06:22 <ShaneM> s/ACtion/Action/
14:06:27 <oedipus> q+ to ask if role="form" belongs in ARIA or Role Module's predefined roles (will cross post to public-xhtml2)

Gregory Rosmaita: q+ to ask if role="form" belongs in ARIA or Role Module's predefined roles (will cross post to public-xhtml2)

14:06:42 <oedipus> ack oe

Gregory Rosmaita: ack oe

14:06:42 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask if role="form" belongs in ARIA or Role Module's predefined roles (will cross post to public-xhtml2)

Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus, you wanted to ask if role="form" belongs in ARIA or Role Module's predefined roles (will cross post to public-xhtml2)

14:06:54 <oedipus> currently, the closest thing is role="search"

Gregory Rosmaita: currently, the closest thing is role="search"

14:07:08 <ShaneM> Tine read through the spec a couple of times.  From the XHTML 2 perspective the only real concern is the role module.

Tine read through the spec a couple of times. From the XHTML 2 perspective the only real concern is the role module.

14:07:11 <oedipus> but there are a lot of other types of forms that people use and need efficient access to...

Gregory Rosmaita: but there are a lot of other types of forms that people use and need efficient access to...

14:07:29 <ShaneM> As far as the spec goes Tina says it is fine - should not impact us too much.

As far as the spec goes Tina says it is fine - should not impact us too much.

14:07:47 <oedipus> applets from server ("security" measures such as captchas), ecommerce, blogging, networking, etc.

Gregory Rosmaita: applets from server ("security" measures such as captchas), ecommerce, blogging, networking, etc.

14:08:44 <oedipus> need to have something that binds them together as a form when form a mixture of technologies (tag soup - part declarative markup, part scripting, so that form controls are outside of the FORM element (yes, this is backwards looking)

Gregory Rosmaita: need to have something that binds them together as a form when form a mixture of technologies (tag soup - part declarative markup, part scripting, so that form controls are outside of the FORM element (yes, this is backwards looking)

14:09:10 <ShaneM> ShaneM: should we submit a comment that says the WAI-ARIA spec needs to normatively refernece the XHTML Role spec?

Shane McCarron: should we submit a comment that says the WAI-ARIA spec needs to normatively refernece the XHTML Role spec?

14:09:25 <oedipus> GJR: speaking as a member of this WG, YES

Gregory Rosmaita: speaking as a member of this WG, YES [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:09:28 <ShaneM> Tina says maybe - depends on where we are in the pipeline?

Tina says maybe - depends on where we are in the pipeline?

14:09:56 <oedipus> q+ to ask if this messes with discussion of extending predefined roles at last virtual f2f?

Gregory Rosmaita: q+ to ask if this messes with discussion of extending predefined roles at last virtual f2f?

14:10:04 <oedipus> ack oe

Gregory Rosmaita: ack oe

14:10:04 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask if this messes with discussion of extending predefined roles at last virtual f2f?

Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus, you wanted to ask if this messes with discussion of extending predefined roles at last virtual f2f?

14:10:11 <ShaneM> ShaneM: I think so too.

Shane McCarron: I think so too.

14:10:41 <ShaneM> markus was concerned about extending roles.

markus was concerned about extending roles.

14:10:55 <oedipus> so, comments so far: 1) normatively cite Role Module; 2)

Gregory Rosmaita: so, comments so far: 1) normatively cite Role Module; 2)

14:11:10 <oedipus> i understand markus' concerns

Gregory Rosmaita: i understand markus' concerns

14:11:11 <ShaneM> ShaneM pointed out that our role vocab includes ALL of the aria terms already.

ShaneM pointed out that our role vocab includes ALL of the aria terms already.

14:11:28 <oedipus> yes, which is why i could try and shoehorn "form" into ARIA

Gregory Rosmaita: yes, which is why i could try and shoehorn "form" into ARIA

14:11:33 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/

http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/

14:11:42 <oedipus> as a region

Gregory Rosmaita: as a region

14:12:10 <oedipus> will cross-post my post on the topic to pfwg public comments list and xhtml2 list

Gregory Rosmaita: will cross-post my post on the topic to pfwg public comments list and xhtml2 list

14:12:40 <oedipus> i think lack of role="form" in ARIA is a huge hole and i can't figure out why i didn't notice that earlier

Gregory Rosmaita: i think lack of role="form" in ARIA is a huge hole and i can't figure out why i didn't notice that earlier

14:12:41 <ShaneM> Not sure when the comment deadline is.

Not sure when the comment deadline is.

14:12:51 <oedipus> 9 April 2009 i believe

Gregory Rosmaita: 9 April 2009 i believe

14:12:53 <ShaneM> markus: supports getting them to try to use the real module normatively.

Markus Gylling: supports getting them to try to use the real module normatively.

14:13:26 <oedipus> BUT, if roland emails janina@rednote.net and wai-liaison@w3.org to say a review from the WG is on the way, we can buy some time

Gregory Rosmaita: BUT, if roland emails janina@rednote.net and wai-liaison@w3.org to say a review from the WG is on the way, we can buy some time

14:13:43 <ShaneM> shane asks who will take the action to send in the formal comment?

shane asks who will take the action to send in the formal comment?

14:13:58 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments (from memory, so caveat lector)

Gregory Rosmaita: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments (from memory, so caveat lector)

14:14:12 <oedipus> shane, i thought the action was already on steven

Gregory Rosmaita: shane, i thought the action was already on steven

14:14:33 <ShaneM> yes but we are trying to optimize here.

yes but we are trying to optimize here.

14:14:45 <ShaneM> Real deadline is 17 April 2009 so that's okay.  Tina will send in the comment.

Real deadline is 17 April 2009 so that's okay. Tina will send in the comment.

14:15:40 <oedipus> ok

Gregory Rosmaita: ok

14:15:43 <ShaneM> Gregory has raised the issue of whether we need a predefined value of "form" for the role attribute.

Gregory has raised the issue of whether we need a predefined value of "form" for the role attribute.

14:16:01 <ShaneM> We have an agenda item for this already.  So let's discuss it in that context?

We have an agenda item for this already. So let's discuss it in that context?

14:16:23 <ShaneM> Topic: Additional values for the role attribute

3. Additional values for the role attribute

14:17:02 <Roland> ref: discussion around <address>  durinf virtual f2f

Scribe problem: the name 'ref' does not match any of the 23 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ref: discussion around <address> durinf virtual f2f [ Scribe Assist by Roland Merrick ]

14:17:09 <ShaneM> Originally came up when we were discussing address and whether there was a way to indicate the role of something was an "address"

Originally came up when we were discussing address and whether there was a way to indicate the role of something was an "address"

14:17:14 <oedipus> q+ role="form" plus 2 roles for notes - referential notes and annotative/explanatory notes

Gregory Rosmaita: q+ role="form" plus 2 roles for notes - referential notes and annotative/explanatory notes

14:17:33 <oedipus> q+ to say role="form" plus 2 roles for notes - referential notes and annotative/explanatory notes~

Gregory Rosmaita: q+ to say role="form" plus 2 roles for notes - referential notes and annotative/explanatory notes~

14:18:39 <ShaneM> I think we can add things to the vocab document at any time really - especially additional values for role.

I think we can add things to the vocab document at any time really - especially additional values for role.

14:19:05 <ShaneM> but when adding terms we need to carefully craft the rdf so we can get to what it really means.

but when adding terms we need to carefully craft the rdf so we can get to what it really means.

14:19:26 <oedipus> if that is kosher, i can live with it, under whatever restrictions the WG decides are proper

Gregory Rosmaita: if that is kosher, i can live with it, under whatever restrictions the WG decides are proper

14:20:24 <ShaneM> XForms does not have a "form" element, so yes a form role might make a lot of sense.

XForms does not have a "form" element, so yes a form role might make a lot of sense.

14:21:35 <ShaneM> We dont have a concept of separate vocabularies for role that apply to different versions of XHTML, so a value of form would be redundant in HTML / XHTML 1.

We dont have a concept of separate vocabularies for role that apply to different versions of XHTML, so a value of form would be redundant in HTML / XHTML 1.

14:21:44 <ShaneM> But that's probably okay.

But that's probably okay.

14:22:04 <ShaneM> We already have a role of search - would we have BOTH?

We already have a role of search - would we have BOTH?

14:22:08 <oedipus> it is needed for repair of mashups, etc.

Gregory Rosmaita: it is needed for repair of mashups, etc.

14:22:17 <oedipus> yes, we need BOTH!!!

Gregory Rosmaita: yes, we need BOTH!!!

14:22:36 <oedipus> search is search - not a captcha form, an order form, a comment form

Gregory Rosmaita: search is search - not a captcha form, an order form, a comment form

14:23:06 <oedipus> ARIA has values for form controls that parallell XForms, but most forms today are not validly constructed

Gregory Rosmaita: ARIA has values for form controls that parallell XForms, but most forms today are not validly constructed

14:23:57 <oedipus> my bank uses javascripted links for all of its form submission buttons, and they are not in the form's tabindex and not bound to the form save visually, and the whole thing happens to be in a DIV

Gregory Rosmaita: my bank uses javascripted links for all of its form submission buttons, and they are not in the form's tabindex and not bound to the form save visually, and the whole thing happens to be in a DIV

14:24:14 <oedipus> search is a "special case" of "form

Gregory Rosmaita: search is a "special case" of "form

14:25:49 <ShaneM> Shane says he is in favor of adding the value of "form".  Tina asks that she is not really sure what it would mean in an XHTML 1 context.

Shane says he is in favor of adding the value of "form". Tina asks that she is not really sure what it would mean in an XHTML 1 context.

14:26:08 <ShaneM> Roland suggests we confer with the XForms people first.

Roland suggests we confer with the XForms people first.

14:26:14 <oedipus> it is a meta-fieldset for a collection of form controls -

Gregory Rosmaita: it is a meta-fieldset for a collection of form controls -

14:26:28 <ShaneM> ACTION: Roland to confer with XForms group about adding a form value to the default role vocabulary.

ACTION: Roland to confer with XForms group about adding a form value to the default role vocabulary.

14:26:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Confer with XForms group about adding a form value to the default role vocabulary. [on Roland Merrick - due 2009-04-15].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-71 - Confer with XForms group about adding a form value to the default role vocabulary. [on Roland Merrick - due 2009-04-15].

14:26:59 <ShaneM> Gregory - do you have suggestions for the names for the notes terms?

Gregory - do you have suggestions for the names for the notes terms?

14:27:04 <oedipus> ARIA needs it not for tomorrow's pages or XHTML2, but for today's and yesterday's content and delivery mechanisms

Gregory Rosmaita: ARIA needs it not for tomorrow's pages or XHTML2, but for today's and yesterday's content and delivery mechanisms

14:27:32 <alessio> agree, gregory

Alessio Cartocci: agree, gregory

14:27:37 <oedipus> shanem, yes, but i will have to dig up the post i sent to PF on the topic wherein things are explained succinctly and coherently

Gregory Rosmaita: shanem, yes, but i will have to dig up the post i sent to PF on the topic wherein things are explained succinctly and coherently

14:27:47 <ShaneM> oedipus: I assumed that was the case... we are just going to ensure we cover our bases with XForms too.

Gregory Rosmaita: I assumed that was the case... we are just going to ensure we cover our bases with XForms too.

14:28:06 <oedipus> shanem, ok - just making sure the request was clear

Gregory Rosmaita: shanem, ok - just making sure the request was clear

14:28:38 <oedipus> also, app may use role="form" to load an expert handler or a plug-in such as ubiquity-xforms

Gregory Rosmaita: also, app may use role="form" to load an expert handler or a plug-in such as ubiquity-xforms

14:28:48 <ShaneM> I think it is a slippery slope to start adding terms for specialized classes of general items.  Like sub-types of notes...

I think it is a slippery slope to start adding terms for specialized classes of general items. Like sub-types of notes...

14:29:02 <oedipus> in XHTML2 would only be in legacy module

Gregory Rosmaita: in XHTML2 would only be in legacy module

14:29:12 <ShaneM> what would only be in legacy module?

what would only be in legacy module?

14:29:26 <oedipus> 2 diff notes because 2 different roles: one documents text the other comments upon it

Gregory Rosmaita: 2 diff notes because 2 different roles: one documents text the other comments upon it

14:29:59 <oedipus> i meant the only reason one would use role="form" is in a legacy-enabled document

Gregory Rosmaita: i meant the only reason one would use role="form" is in a legacy-enabled document

14:30:07 <ShaneM> Roland: we already have complementary and notes to delineate different supplemental data.  We could go a bit far if we are not careful.

Roland Merrick: we already have complementary and notes to delineate different supplemental data. We could go a bit far if we are not careful.

14:30:26 <oedipus> ok, but can i have role="note complementary"

Gregory Rosmaita: ok, but can i have role="note complementary"

14:30:36 <ShaneM> oedipus: I disagree.  Since XForms does not really have a container, i could see using role="form" to indicate that a whole part of a page is a form.

Gregory Rosmaita: I disagree. Since XForms does not really have a container, i could see using role="form" to indicate that a whole part of a page is a form.

14:30:43 <oedipus> syntax may be off (on dumb terminal)

Gregory Rosmaita: syntax may be off (on dumb terminal)

14:30:57 <oedipus> i am happy to be wrong, then, shane

Gregory Rosmaita: i am happy to be wrong, then, shane

14:31:30 <ShaneM> back on note values.... having multiple roles is of course fine.  Do you think it is an issue Gregory?

back on note values.... having multiple roles is of course fine. Do you think it is an issue Gregory?

14:32:15 <oedipus> in my mind, but i'm willing to post my previous suggestion to PF to the XHTML2 list - it is not make-or-break, as long as one can qualify a role as both complementary and a note

Gregory Rosmaita: in my mind, but i'm willing to post my previous suggestion to PF to the XHTML2 list - it is not make-or-break, as long as one can qualify a role as both complementary and a note

14:32:26 <oedipus> and let the WG decide

Gregory Rosmaita: and let the WG decide

14:33:06 <ShaneM> Markus points out there is a typo in the vocab document - complementary describes itself as secondary

Markus points out there is a typo in the vocab document - complementary describes itself as secondary

14:33:14 <oedipus> i think it ok to drop the 2 kinds of notes discussion - multiple values need to be used

Gregory Rosmaita: i think it ok to drop the 2 kinds of notes discussion - multiple values need to be used

14:33:22 <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to update vocab document to fix typo about Complementary

ACTION: ShaneM to update vocab document to fix typo about Complementary

14:33:22 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ShaneM

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - ShaneM

14:33:35 <oedipus> shanem and markus, the vocab doc needs a re-sync with the LC draft of ARIA

Gregory Rosmaita: shanem and markus, the vocab doc needs a re-sync with the LC draft of ARIA

14:33:54 <oedipus> i have an action item to nag you, shane, about updating the vocab doc in concert with MCooper

Gregory Rosmaita: i have an action item to nag you, shane, about updating the vocab doc in concert with MCooper

14:34:06 <oedipus> missing ARIA roles such as "math"

Gregory Rosmaita: missing ARIA roles such as "math"

14:34:17 <oedipus> some role definitions have been tweaked, as well

Gregory Rosmaita: some role definitions have been tweaked, as well

14:34:20 <ShaneM> MCooper owes me some updates so I can do it.

MCooper owes me some updates so I can do it.

14:34:24 <oedipus> right

Gregory Rosmaita: right

14:35:01 <ShaneM> Markus points out that there are many items in the vocab document that are indicated to be part of rel/rev but are useful as role values.  how do we indicate it is okay to use those?

Markus points out that there are many items in the vocab document that are indicated to be part of rel/rev but are useful as role values. how do we indicate it is okay to use those?

14:35:05 <oedipus> i don't know his time-frame, but i think that LC is a benchmark and that the vocab document should be updated to reflect what is in the LC draft of ARIA 1.0

Gregory Rosmaita: i don't know his time-frame, but i think that LC is a benchmark and that the vocab document should be updated to reflect what is in the LC draft of ARIA 1.0

14:35:32 <ShaneM> oedipus: of course - I have been harassing MCooper about it.  will get it done ASAP.

Gregory Rosmaita: of course - I have been harassing MCooper about it. will get it done ASAP.

14:36:45 <ShaneM> ShaneM asks if there is any problem permitting role="last" for example?

ShaneM asks if there is any problem permitting role="last" for example?

14:36:52 <oedipus> need to tweak introductory verbiage to explicitly state that while the following roles have traditionally been used (or limited to use) in the HEAD of a document, using the rel and rev mechanism is only one means of using these roles, which can be used inline

Gregory Rosmaita: need to tweak introductory verbiage to explicitly state that while the following roles have traditionally been used (or limited to use) in the HEAD of a document, using the rel and rev mechanism is only one means of using these roles, which can be used inline

14:37:14 <oedipus> or words to better effect <grin>

Gregory Rosmaita: or words to better effect <grin>

14:37:18 <ShaneM> Roland thinks it might be useless but it is not really a problem.

Roland thinks it might be useless but it is not really a problem.

14:37:28 <oedipus> CYA

Gregory Rosmaita: COA

14:37:39 <oedipus> s/CYA/COA
14:38:15 <ShaneM> I think I should just improve the text for section 2 and update the underlying RDFa so that they are all also legal role values.

I think I should just improve the text for section 2 and update the underlying RDFa so that they are all also legal role values.

14:38:26 <oedipus> should i start a best practices role wiki page on which to develop verbiage?

Gregory Rosmaita: should i start a role best practices wiki page on which to develop verbiage?

14:38:47 <oedipus> s/best practices role/role best practices
14:38:56 <ShaneM> oedipus: Yes, good idea.

Gregory Rosmaita: Yes, good idea.

14:39:27 <oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - prepare Best Practice for Role Module wiki space and begin populating with examples

ACTION: Gregory - prepare Best Practice for Role Module wiki space and begin populating with examples

14:39:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - - prepare Best Practice for Role Module wiki space and begin populating with examples [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-04-15].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-72 - - prepare Best Practice for Role Module wiki space and begin populating with examples [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-04-15].

14:40:01 <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to update introduction to section 2 of the vocab document AND update the RDFa so that all the terms are associated with role.

ACTION: ShaneM to update introduction to section 2 of the vocab document AND update the RDFa so that all the terms are associated with role.

14:40:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ShaneM

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - ShaneM

14:40:43 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to update introduction to section 2 of the vocab document AND update the RDFa so that all the terms are associated with role.

ACTION: Shane to update introduction to section 2 of the vocab document AND update the RDFa so that all the terms are associated with role.

14:40:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Update introduction to section 2 of the vocab document AND update the RDFa so that all the terms are associated with role. [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-04-15].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-73 - Update introduction to section 2 of the vocab document AND update the RDFa so that all the terms are associated with role. [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-04-15].

14:41:42 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0002.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0002.html

14:41:48 <ShaneM> Roland reminds the group that this arose because of the "address" element and a potential role of address.  Need to ponder that more.

Roland reminds the group that this arose because of the "address" element and a potential role of address. Need to ponder that more.

14:42:50 <ShaneM> Topic: title and meta

4. title and meta

14:43:03 <ShaneM> Meta content model was reverted to xhtml 1 content model, so this is overcome by events.

Meta content model was reverted to xhtml 1 content model, so this is overcome by events.

14:43:28 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to reply to message 0002

ACTION: Shane to reply to message 0002

14:43:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Reply to message 0002 [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-04-15].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-74 - Reply to message 0002 [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-04-15].

14:43:43 <ShaneM> Topic: HTML 5 / XHTML 2 Merger?

5. HTML 5 / XHTML 2 Merger?

14:43:55 <ShaneM> Tina asks if this is really happening or is it just talk?

Tina asks if this is really happening or is it just talk?

14:44:29 <ShaneM> Roland indicates that Steven and Sam Ruby have actions to discuss this, but there have been no decisions.

Roland indicates that Steven and Sam Ruby have actions to discuss this, but there have been no decisions.

14:44:46 <ShaneM> Nothing has been done about this thus far, as far as anyone on the call knows.

Nothing has been done about this thus far, as far as anyone on the call knows.

14:46:21 <ShaneM> There was some data in the vF2F minutes from two weeks ago.

There was some data in the vF2F minutes from two weeks ago.

14:47:17 <oedipus> should be at http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-xhtml-minutes.html#item01 i believe

Gregory Rosmaita: should be at http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-xhtml-minutes.html#item01 i believe

14:47:43 <Zakim> -Markus

Zakim IRC Bot: -Markus

14:47:44 <Zakim> - +46.8.64.5.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +46.8.64.5.aaaa

14:47:47 <oedipus> either item01 or item02

Gregory Rosmaita: either item01 or item02

14:47:47 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland

14:47:55 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

14:48:03 <Zakim> -Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio

14:48:04 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

14:48:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Markus, +46.8.64.5.aaaa, Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Markus, +46.8.64.5.aaaa, Alessio

14:48:10 <oedipus> zakim, please part

Gregory Rosmaita: zakim, please part

14:48:30 <oedipus> no problem

Gregory Rosmaita: no problem

14:48:36 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, make minutes

14:48:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:50:24 <alessio> bye all

Alessio Cartocci: bye all

14:50:29 <oedipus> present+ Tina

Gregory Rosmaita: present+ Tina

14:50:48 <oedipus> present+ Gregory_IRC_only

Gregory Rosmaita: present+ Gregory_IRC_only

14:50:53 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, make minutes

14:50:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:51:16 <oedipus> present- aaaa

Gregory Rosmaita: present- aaaa

14:51:19 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, make minutes

14:51:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:52:04 <oedipus> present - [+46.8.64.5.aaaa]

Gregory Rosmaita: present - [+46.8.64.5.aaaa]

14:52:07 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, make minutes

14:52:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:52:41 <oedipus> present- [+46.8.64.5.aaaa]

Gregory Rosmaita: present- [+46.8.64.5.aaaa]

14:52:45 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, make minutes

14:52:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:52:49 <oedipus> rrsagent, stop

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, stop

14:53:37 <oedipus> present- +46.8.64.5.aaaa

Gregory Rosmaita: present- +46.8.64.5.aaaa

14:53:42 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, make minutes

14:53:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:53:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, stop

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, stop



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