Meeting Record

There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.

It may be helpful to

Lee Feigenbaum: Should I copy&paste introductions onto the wiki, or just link to public-rdf-dawg archives? leaning towards the latter, as the Internet is crowded as is ←

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ericP; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 39 minutes ←

Lee Feigenbaum: ericP, can you make sure we've got a tracker request in progress? i think sandro said he didn't see one in the DB ←

Lee Feigenbaum: ericP, I have no idea how to tell if trackbot is configured for us or what or where ←

Lee Feigenbaum: sandro, are you able to illuminate me in how to find the sparql tracker & how to add users? ←

Unknown sandro: Lee, I don't think tracker knows about sparql. The systems team has to tell it to connect this IRC channel to group 35463, then it should just know who is who. ←

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF ←

Lee Feigenbaum: Time zone fun. If the US starts daylight savings time but no one else does, and we fix around US time, then the meeting is (a) 1 hour earlier for everyone else, or (b) 1 hour later for everyone else? ←

Ivan Mikhailov: Hello LeeF, I think I'll split list of extensions tomorrow, not today. BTW is our wiki supposed to be visible for public or we do not "advertize" it? ←

Lee Feigenbaum: hi iv_an_ru, tomorrow's fine - our goal is to gather by next week ←

Lee Feigenbaum: And the wiki should indeed be public, we conduct our business in public ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←

Lee Feigenbaum: clarification... Wg is open only to W3C members, although we conduct work in public ←

Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (31%), AndyS (13%), Souri (38%) ←

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot ←

Lee Feigenbaum: we have intros linked from the wiki [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, ywang4, Souri (muted), EricP (muted), Ori, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dom, AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←

Unknown ericP: ... chime and i are working on an impl, hoping to push mods back into spec ←

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot ←

Chimezie Ogbuji: john-l and i work on a patient registry [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown ericP: ... we've done a hand full of improvements. expect they are useful in general ←

Unknown yimin: working in lilly singapore [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Souripriya Das: was part of DAWG. passionate about it as i expect it to be useful for DI in general [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Lee Feigenbaum: ericP, yes, i agree, but am not prepared to do it at the moment :) ←

Axel Polleres: liasons are supposed to connect us with other groups touching our work [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown ericP: ... would like liason status update at beginnings of meetings ←

Bijan Parsia: I think it's overkill to do it each telecon...generally, there's fewer occasions to mention ←

Ivan Herman: q+ can also liaise with OWL if bijan has a problem of timing, for example ←

Axel Polleres: Should we "advertise" to them? maybe someone was interested to join us, at least to follow? ←

Unknown ericP: expect that we will need to touch XQuery if we import more XPath functions [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Lee Feigenbaum: most folks have tougher travel restrictions than in the past [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Ivan Mikhailov: we will need to touch XQuery if we extend XQuery with SPARQL :) ←

Unknown ericP: ... hope to have a f2f a couple months from now when we settle on our deliverables ←

PROPOSED: host first f2f 5-6May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants) ←

Andy Seaborne: May 6,7 is preferrable to me as well. Can make May 5 if necessary ←

Unknown eric: rooms might be a problem 7-8 [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←

Ivan Herman: 2 days (it is hard to keep up work of that intensity for 3 days) ←

Axel Polleres: let's tentatively fix 6-7 shall we also set up a questionaire? ←

Lee Feigenbaum: Pick other (U.K. / Europe?) site in the next week or two, please send possibilities to mailing list ←

PROPOSED: host first f2f 6-7May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants) ←

Lee Feigenbaum: 1st phase: define what features we want to work on [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown ericP: ... we're bound to 18 months, including spec, tests, impl report ←

Unknown ericP: ... likely a very small set. need to settle on them in the next month ←

Unknown ericP: ... e.g. "peform aggregate functions", "query over arbitrary length tasks" ←

Unknown ericP: ... we're not aiming for higher-level use cases, à la "Bob runs a stereo store..." ←

Ivan Mikhailov: use case 2: a graph with Gantt chart, personal calendars and some trivial validation. ←

Unknown ericP: ... need a champions who will speak in depth about the feature ←

Bijan Parsia: would we do one req, or stagger them? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Lee Feigenbaum: should we write todo list or a priority list? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Andy Seaborne: knocking off some easy ones would get the community engaged [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown ericP: ... i like to work on one thing at a time, and do it properly ←

Ivan Herman: short charter, and rec process takes time and energy [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown ericP: ... publishing several things in a staggered way could backfire ←

Unknown ericP: bijan, was wondering if we could modularize parts into specs. ←

Bijan Parsia: The HTML5 spec indicates the stability levels of different *sections* of the spec...which might be good for implementors ←

Lee Feigenbaum: modularizing sounds great, if we can modularize ourselves [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Andy Seaborne: +1 to modularization (if it does not cause rework just for modulrity) ←

Unknown ericP: could modularize sections, do tests and impl reports, and package as a spec when we get near the end [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Axel Polleres: use cases should identify which spec they affect (e.g. protocol, xml results format) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown ericP: ... we've listed deliverables in the charter. we're not bound to that? ←

Lee Feigenbaum: nope. our deliverables will fall out from our use cases [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Ivan Mikhailov: not sure the final doc should be a single spec, e.g. SPARQL1.1 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown ericP: ... when i need business intelligence, i need it on everything ←

Lee Feigenbaum: don't expect us to break up core parts [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Bijan Parsia: The spec shouldn't have everything it but neither should it be the minimal publishable unit ←

Unknown ericP: ... don't want to lose interop if all these features are on their own specs ←

Chimezie Ogbuji: then perhaps we should be a little more explicit in the request for what we want (usecase v.s. feature request) ←

Lee Feigenbaum: agreed. would like to dive straight into features [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Steve Harris: when we prioritize, we'll talk about use cases, regardless of whether we write them down [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Andy Seaborne: While features are natural/obvious this is OK but if one comes along which the WG as a whole finds unobvious, we need to back off to use cases. ←

Axel Polleres: template rationale: thought the features we want to add should be driven by practical examples [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Ivan Mikhailov: use cases should be written down at least in our wiki, if not in final docs, because they demonstrate how features "interoperate". ←

Bijan Parsia: Use cases doesn't exhaust...e.g., implementability are also considerations ←

Bijan Parsia: So, new feature: "Awesome feature"; rationale: "here's the intuition", "here's the implementation considerations", "here's some use cases" ←

Unknown ericP: ... if you a system with .e.g aggregates, add you syntax to that feature ←

Lee Feigenbaum: let's call them features (tweak the template), add a section for use cases under each feature, and have example syntaxes for the feature [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Unknown APPROVED: rename "use cases" to "features" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Andy Seaborne: what about folks who are not in the group, but plan to join [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Lee Feigenbaum: would like folks to send to public-rdf-dawg-comments [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Andy Seaborne: danger of opening floodgate [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ericP ] ←

Ivan Mikhailov: We can invite people to read the wiki before (re)submitting proposals :) ←

Lee Feigenbaum: Will sned an email on the list to gather as many features as we can by next week. ←

Ivan Mikhailov: Even more, implementation providers may announce in their support mailing lists that they collect wishes for SPARQL 2.0 and act as proxies. ←

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←

Lee Feigenbaum: AxelPolleres, do you want to try to follow the scribe instructions, or would you like me to? ←

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been LeeF, kasei, AndyS, +1.216.445.aaaa, iv_an_ru, bijan, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, john-l, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb, ywang4, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.603.897.aacc, Souri, EricP, Ori, daveNewman, Souri_Das ←

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were LeeF, kasei, AndyS, +1.216.445.aaaa, iv_an_ru, bijan, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, john-l, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb, ywang4, +1.603.897.aacc, Souri, ←

Lee Feigenbaum: ok, I'm on the minutes, plus sending variety of emails to people ←

SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 03 March 2009

1. admin

2. logistics

3. liaisons

4. F2F

5. use cases