IRC log of sparql on 2009-03-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:16:10 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #sparql

14:16:10 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc

14:16:25 [ericP]

Zakim, space for 20 for 2 hours?

14:16:25 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, ericP.

14:16:56 [LeeF_]

zakim, you're not alone

14:16:56 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'you're not alone', LeeF_

14:17:11 [ericP]

everyone's a critic

14:19:17 [dom]

dom has joined #sparql

14:19:21 [LeeF_]

Should I copy&paste introductions onto the wiki, or just link to public-rdf-dawg archives? leaning towards the latter, as the Internet is crowded as is

14:19:23 [dom]

dom has left #sparql

14:19:37 [ericP]

indeed

14:19:41 [ericP]

instructions?

14:19:48 [LeeF_]

instructions?

14:20:55 [ericP]

Zakim, room for 20 for 2 hours?

14:20:55 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, ericP.

14:21:43 [ericP]

Zakim, room for 20 for 120 minutes?

14:21:45 [Zakim]

sorry, ericP; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again

14:21:55 [ericP]

Zakim, this will be SPARQL

14:21:55 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 39 minutes

14:22:00 [ericP]

fine, whatever

14:22:22 [LeeF]

lol

14:22:48 [LeeF]

ericP, can you make sure we've got a tracker request in progress? i think sandro said he didn't see one in the DB

14:23:02 [ericP]

trackbot, how's it hanging?

14:23:02 [trackbot]

Sorry, ericP, I don't understand 'trackbot, how's it hanging?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

14:24:49 [LeeF]

trackbot, status

14:25:08 [LeeF]

trackbot, you need remedial match classes

14:25:08 [trackbot]

Sorry, LeeF, I don't understand 'trackbot, you need remedial match classes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

14:25:17 [LeeF]

s/match/math

14:26:28 [john-l]

john-l has joined #sparql

14:27:53 [LeeF]

ericP, I have no idea how to tell if trackbot is configured for us or what or where

14:34:24 [ericP]

the sparql tracker setup is yet untested, but probably fine

14:34:44 [LeeF]

does it have a URL somewhere in Web space?

14:35:01 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to see if the SPARQL tracker is setup correctly

14:35:01 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - LeeF

14:35:27 [LeeF]

action -1

14:35:28 [trackbot]

Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

14:35:42 [LeeF]

how does this thing learn about users?

14:37:17 [LeeF]

trackbot, status?

14:38:49 [LeeF]

zakim, tracker, RRSAgent, please fight to the death

14:38:49 [Zakim]

I don't understand you, LeeF

14:39:23 [ericP]

LeeF, i'm about to gather my compost and head to the 'tute

14:39:28 [ericP]

try asking on #sysreq

14:39:38 [ericP]

'cause i have no idea how to use tracker

14:40:09 [LeeF]

ericP, ack

14:43:02 [sandro]

wow, that's a lot of users. Heh....

14:44:23 [kasei]

kasei has joined #sparql

14:44:54 [LeeF]

sandro, are you able to illuminate me in how to find the sparql tracker & how to add users?

14:46:51 [LeeF]

Scribe: ericP

14:46:54 [LeeF]

Chair: LeeF

14:47:07 [LeeF]

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-03-03

14:47:11 [LeeF]

Regrets:

14:47:27 [LeeF]

agenda + admin

14:47:31 [LeeF]

aegnda + logistics

14:47:35 [LeeF]

agenda + liaisons

14:47:38 [sandro]

Lee, I don't think tracker knows about sparql. The systems team has to tell it to connect this IRC channel to group 35463, then it should just know who is who.

14:47:55 [LeeF]

ok, thanks, I will mail them myseld

14:47:58 [LeeF]

myself, even

14:48:00 [LeeF]

agenda -2

14:48:04 [LeeF]

agenda + logistics

14:48:08 [LeeF]

agenda + liaisons

14:48:12 [LeeF]

agenda + face to face

14:48:17 [LeeF]

agenda + gathering use cases

14:48:22 [AndyS]

AndyS has joined #sparql

14:51:22 [LeeF]

zakim, code?

14:51:22 [Zakim]

the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF

14:51:45 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

14:51:52 [Zakim]

+Lee_Feigenbaum

14:52:00 [LeeF]

zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is always me

14:52:00 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'Lee_Feigenbaum is always me', LeeF

14:52:02 [LeeF]

zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me

14:52:02 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:54:26 [LeeF]

Time zone fun. If the US starts daylight savings time but no one else does, and we fix around US time, then the meeting is (a) 1 hour earlier for everyone else, or (b) 1 hour later for everyone else?

14:54:41 [Zakim]

+kasei

14:54:56 [LeeF]

I'm going with (a)

14:55:40 [iv_an_ru]

Hello LeeF, I think I'll split list of extensions tomorrow, not today. BTW is our wiki supposed to be visible for public or we do not "advertize" it?

14:55:40 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:55:48 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P16 is me

14:55:48 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:56:04 [ivan]

ivan has joined #sparql

14:56:22 [LeeF]

hi iv_an_ru, tomorrow's fine - our goal is to gather by next week

14:56:34 [LeeF]

And the wiki should indeed be public, we conduct our business in public

14:56:35 [SteveH]

SteveH has joined #sparql

14:57:06 [chimezie]

chimezie has joined #sparql

14:57:10 [LeeF]

agenda + wiki & communications are public

14:57:17 [ywang4]

ywang4 has joined #sparql

14:57:27 [Zakim]

+??P21

14:57:31 [Zakim]

+??P26

14:57:37 [bijan]

bijan has joined #sparql

14:57:41 [LukeWM]

LukeWM has joined #sparql

14:57:49 [Zakim]

+ +1.216.445.aaaa

14:57:53 [terraces]

terraces has joined #sparql

14:57:54 [Zakim]

+iv_an_ru

14:57:56 [LeeF]

zakim, bijan is P21

14:57:56 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'bijan'

14:57:58 [LeeF]

zakim, bijan is ??P21

14:57:58 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'bijan'

14:58:01 [bijan]

zakim, ??P21 is me

14:58:01 [Zakim]

+bijan; got it

14:58:02 [LeeF]

zakim, P21 is bijan

14:58:02 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'P21'

14:58:13 [bijan]

zakim, mute me

14:58:13 [Zakim]

bijan should now be muted

14:58:15 [Zakim]

+??P29

14:58:26 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P29 is [Garlik]

14:58:26 [Zakim]

+[Garlik]; got it

14:58:34 [Zakim]

+Chimezie_Ogbuji

14:58:40 [Zakim]

+??P31

14:58:47 [LeeF]

zakim, aaaa is john-l

14:58:47 [Zakim]

+john-l; got it

14:59:06 [Zakim]

+??P19

14:59:11 [terraces]

Zakim: 31 is me

14:59:37 [LeeF]

zakim, ??P31 is terraces

14:59:37 [Zakim]

+terraces; got it

14:59:39 [terraces]

Zakim, ??31 is me

14:59:39 [Zakim]

sorry, terraces, I do not recognize a party named '??31'

14:59:44 [AxelPolleres]

AxelPolleres has joined #sparql

14:59:51 [LeeF]

zakim, ??P19 is AxelPolleres

14:59:51 [Zakim]

+AxelPolleres; got it

14:59:54 [terraces]

Zakim, ??P31 is me

14:59:54 [Zakim]

I already had ??P31 as terraces, terraces

14:59:58 [LeeF]

zakim, who's here?

14:59:58 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres

14:59:59 [iv_an_ru]

zakim, ?31 is terraces

15:00:03 [AxelPolleres]

THanks, accifently called before logging to irc

15:00:06 [Zakim]

sorry, iv_an_ru, I do not recognize a party named '?31'

15:00:16 [Zakim]

+ivan.a

15:00:18 [Zakim]

On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP

15:00:32 [ivan]

zakim, ivan.a is ivan

15:00:43 [Zakim]

+ivan; got it

15:01:27 [LeeF]

zakim, who's here?

15:01:31 [Zakim]

+ +656304aabb

15:01:35 [ywang4]

I am

15:01:37 [ywang4]

Yimin here

15:01:56 [LeeF]

zakim, aabb is ywang4

15:01:57 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb

15:02:29 [Zakim]

On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP

15:02:33 [Zakim]

+ywang4; got it

15:02:34 [AxelPolleres]

who's scribing?

15:03:23 [Zakim]

-??P26

15:03:49 [AxelPolleres]

scribe: AxelPolleres

15:04:11 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-03-03 agenda

15:04:12 [AxelPolleres]

scribenick: AxelPolleres

15:05:06 [AxelPolleres]

Lee: clarification... Wg is open only to W3C members, although we conduct work in public

15:05:33 [AxelPolleres]

... minutes, agenda, wiki are all public and encouraged to be shared.

15:05:59 [LeeF]

team-sparql-chairs@w3.org

15:06:09 [AxelPolleres]

... if you want to keep something non-public, mail us (team/chairs)

15:06:19 [LeeF]

topic: admin

15:06:31 [Zakim]

+ +1.603.897.aacc

15:06:48 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-02-24 minutes from last week

15:06:56 [AxelPolleres]

minutes from last time are on the web.

15:07:06 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: accept minutes from last week

15:07:07 [LeeF]

zakim, aacc is Souri

15:07:07 [Zakim]

+Souri; got it

15:07:12 [ericP]

Zakim, please dial ericP-office

15:07:12 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; the call is being made

15:07:14 [Zakim]

+EricP

15:07:19 [Zakim]

+Ori

15:07:23 [bijan]

I just look and they look ok

15:07:30 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: minutes from last week approved

15:07:40 [john-l]

Zakim: mute me

15:07:44 [LeeF]

scribenick: ericP

15:08:12 [AxelPolleres]

scribe: Eric P.

15:08:13 [ericP]

next meeting: 10am US time

15:08:48 [LeeF]

zakim, who's speaking?

15:08:59 [Zakim]

LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (31%), AndyS (13%), Souri (38%)

15:09:01 [LeeF]

14:00 UTC next meeting

15:09:06 [ericP]

lastlog trackbot

15:09:12 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, mute Souri

15:09:12 [Zakim]

Souri should now be muted

15:09:33 [ericP]

trackbot, start teleconf

15:09:33 [LeeF]

topic: logistics

15:09:37 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

15:09:39 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be No Teleconference

15:09:39 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

15:09:40 [trackbot]

Meeting: AC Meeting attendees group Teleconference

15:09:40 [trackbot]

Date: 03 March 2009

15:09:56 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki

15:10:26 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:10:26 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is

15:10:32 [LeeF]

zakim, this is SPARQL

15:10:32 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

15:10:33 [dom]

dom has joined #sparql

15:10:37 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:10:37 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:10:51 [LeeF]

-> p://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Meetings

15:10:57 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Meetings

15:11:15 [dom]

RRSAgent, pointer?

15:11:15 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc#T15-11-15

15:11:37 [Zakim]

+daveNewman

15:11:45 [LeeF]

-> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Scribe_List scribe list

15:13:30 [trackbot]

Getting data for channel #sparql at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track//api/users failed - alert sysreq of a possible bug

15:14:18 [ericP]

LeeF: we have intros linked from the wiki

15:14:29 [LeeF]

zakim, who's here?

15:14:29 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, ywang4, Souri (muted), EricP (muted), Ori,

15:14:30 [ericP]

... encourage others to supply intros

15:14:33 [Zakim]

... daveNewman

15:14:34 [Zakim]

On IRC I see dom, AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP

15:14:50 [ericP]

john-l: chime and i missed last week

15:15:03 [dom]

trackbot, start meeting

15:15:04 [ericP]

... 2nd rep for cleveland clinic (cleveburg OH)

15:15:23 [ericP]

... chime and i are working on an impl, hoping to push mods back into spec

15:15:28 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

15:15:32 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be No Teleconference

15:15:32 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

15:15:34 [trackbot]

Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

15:15:35 [ericP]

chime: john-l and i work on a patient registry

15:15:36 [trackbot]

Date: 03 March 2009

15:15:52 [ericP]

... we've done a hand full of improvements. expect they are useful in general

15:15:58 [ericP]

ivan: ivan the elder

15:16:07 [ericP]

... W3C semweb activity lead

15:16:13 [ericP]

... 2nd contact

15:16:28 [ericP]

yimin: working in lilly singapore

15:16:44 [ericP]

... working on data integration projects in lilly

15:16:58 [ericP]

... looking for insert/delete, stuff like that

15:17:11 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute Souri

15:17:11 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is

15:17:16 [LeeF]

zakim, this is SPARQL

15:17:16 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

15:17:18 [ivan]

zakim, mute me

15:17:18 [Zakim]

ivan should now be muted

15:17:21 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute Souri

15:17:21 [Zakim]

Souri should no longer be muted

15:17:43 [ericP]

souri: Souri Das, Oracle

15:18:27 [ericP]

souri: was part of DAWG. passionate about it as i expect it to be useful for DI in general

15:18:52 [LeeF]

topic: liaisons

15:19:13 [dom]

dom has left #sparql

15:19:22 [ericP]

LeeF, we might want a tracker intro under logistics

15:19:39 [LeeF]

ericP, yes, i agree, but am not prepared to do it at the moment :)

15:19:44 [ericP]

AxelPolleres: liasons are supposed to connect us with other groups touching our work

15:20:07 [ericP]

... need liasons with three W3C groups:

15:20:10 [bijan]

XQuery?

15:20:11 [ericP]

... .. OWL

15:20:14 [ericP]

... .. RIF

15:20:19 [ericP]

... .. RdfRDB

15:20:21 [bijan]

HCLS interest group

15:20:27 [ericP]

... any other suggestions?

15:20:31 [ivan]

s/RdfRDB/RDB2RDF/

15:20:47 [ericP]

... would like liason status update at beginnings of meetings

15:21:03 [bijan]

I think it's overkill to do it each telecon...generally, there's fewer occasions to mention

15:21:06 [bijan]

q+

15:21:24 [souri2]

souri2 has joined #sparql

15:21:25 [bijan]

zakim, unmute me

15:21:25 [Zakim]

bijan should no longer be muted

15:21:43 [LeeF]

ack bijan

15:21:56 [ericP]

RESOLVED: Bijan appointed OWL liason

15:21:57 [iv_an_ru]

Orri and I are in RDB2RDF

15:22:04 [ericP]

q+ to say i have good contact with HCLS

15:22:14 [AxelPolleres]

Bijan: additional liaison XQuery?

15:22:20 [bijan]

+1 to eric for liasing with HCLS

15:22:27 [ericP]

RESOLVED: ericP appointed HCLS liason

15:22:31 [ivan]

q+ can also liaise with OWL if bijan has a problem of timing, for example

15:22:46 [ericP]

RESOLVED: orri appointed RDB2RDF liason

15:22:58 [ericP]

RESOLVED: axel appointed RIF liason

15:23:29 [ericP]

ack me

15:23:31 [Zakim]

ericP, you wanted to say i have good contact with HCLS

15:24:18 [AxelPolleres]

Should we "advertise" to them? maybe someone was interested to join us, at least to follow?

15:24:21 [AndyS]

XQuery arealos working on full text search

15:24:33 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:24:33 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:24:40 [ericP]

but i was locally muted

15:24:46 [AndyS]

s/arealoo/are also/

15:24:49 [ericP]

ericP: expect that we will need to touch XQuery if we import more XPath functions

15:24:51 [LeeF]

topic: F2F

15:24:58 [AndyS]

s/arealos/are also/

15:25:23 [ericP]

LeeF: most folks have tougher travel restrictions than in the past

15:25:37 [iv_an_ru]

we will need to touch XQuery if we extend XQuery with SPARQL :)

15:25:37 [ericP]

... don't expect to have our four meetings this year

15:25:56 [ericP]

... hope to have a f2f a couple months from now when we settle on our deliverables

15:27:24 [ericP]

PROPOSED: host first f2f 5-6May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants)

15:27:43 [bijan]

tues are potentially bad

15:28:09 [AndyS]

May 6,7 is preferrable to me as well. Can make May 5 if necessary

15:28:25 [bijan]

I can't do tues easily

15:28:53 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:28:53 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

15:29:26 [AxelPolleres]

eric: rooms might be a problem 7-8

15:31:17 [bijan]

2 days

15:31:22 [chimezie]

+1 2 days

15:31:24 [ywang4]

2 days should be fine

15:31:28 [SteveH]

+1 2 days

15:31:30 [ivan]

2 days (it is hard to keep up work of that intensity for 3 days)

15:31:40 [souri2]

May 6-7 is better for me. 2 days.

15:31:42 [AndyS]

2 days unless it is clear 3 is needed

15:31:52 [bijan]

Can't do the 5th

15:31:58 [bijan]

(most likely)

15:32:07 [AxelPolleres]

no preference

15:32:24 [ywang4]

okay, i can try to adapt

15:33:04 [iv_an_ru]

My US visa has expired so I'm probably missing the f2f.

15:33:14 [AxelPolleres]

let's tentatively fix 6-7 shall we also set up a questionaire?

15:33:15 [SteveH]

+q to ask about multi site

15:33:56 [ivan]

no

15:34:00 [bijan]

I think chairs decision is fine

15:34:14 [LeeF]

ack SteveH

15:34:14 [Zakim]

SteveH, you wanted to ask about multi site

15:34:19 [bijan]

As long as it's announced far enough in advance...8 weeks

15:34:57 [AndyS]

I can ask our comms people about a telecon link

15:35:07 [bijan]

I can ask about access grid access

15:35:27 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:35:27 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:35:56 [LeeF]

Pick other (U.K. / Europe?) site in the next week or two, please send possibilities to mailing list

15:36:27 [ericP]

PROPOSED: host first f2f 6-7May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants)

15:36:39 [souri2]

What will be the hours for F2F?

15:36:41 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1

15:36:49 [AxelPolleres]

q+

15:36:56 [ericP]

q+ to mention video room availability

15:37:52 [LeeF]

ack ericP

15:37:54 [Zakim]

ericP, you wanted to mention video room availability

15:37:59 [LeeF]

ack AxelPolleres

15:38:16 [ivan]

q+

15:38:23 [bijan]

Manchester has a room

15:38:35 [bijan]

HP has one...I've seen it :)

15:39:10 [ivan]

ack ivan

15:40:41 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:40:41 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:41:02 [LeeF]

topic: use cases

15:41:24 [iv_an_ru]

use case 1: TPC-H

15:41:36 [iv_an_ru]

(we pass it in SPARQL :)

15:41:39 [ericP]

LeeF: 1st phase: define what features we want to work on

15:41:56 [ericP]

... we're bound to 18 months, including spec, tests, impl report

15:42:13 [ericP]

... likely a very small set. need to settle on them in the next month

15:42:25 [bijan]

q+

15:42:38 [AxelPolleres]

Please indicate your availability for F2F1 on the wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1

15:42:53 [ericP]

... we're blurring the line between use case and feature

15:43:15 [ericP]

... e.g. "peform aggregate functions", "query over arbitrary length tasks"

15:43:46 [AndyS]

q+ to ask about outside contributions

15:43:51 [ericP]

... we're not aiming for higher-level use cases, à la "Bob runs a stereo store..."

15:44:16 [ericP]

... looking for examples, implementations

15:44:27 [LeeF]

ack bijan

15:44:29 [iv_an_ru]

use case 2: a graph with Gantt chart, personal calendars and some trivial validation.

15:44:29 [bijan]

zakim, unmute me

15:44:29 [Zakim]

bijan was not muted, bijan

15:44:34 [ericP]

... need a champions who will speak in depth about the feature

15:44:52 [ericP]

bijan: would we do one req, or stagger them?

15:45:10 [ivan]

q+

15:45:22 [bijan]

zakim, mute me

15:45:22 [Zakim]

bijan should now be muted

15:45:36 [ericP]

LeeF: should we write todo list or a priority list?

15:45:38 [bijan]

zakim, unmute me

15:45:38 [Zakim]

bijan should no longer be muted

15:45:47 [ericP]

bijan: i like getting things done

15:46:02 [ericP]

... but there's value publicity of a slew of things

15:46:09 [ericP]

... but if we can get stuff out

15:46:11 [ericP]

q+

15:46:13 [AxelPolleres]

q+

15:46:16 [bijan]

zakim, mute me

15:46:16 [Zakim]

bijan should now be muted

15:46:48 [ericP]

AndyS: knocking off some easy ones would get the community engaged

15:46:52 [bijan]

+1 to AndyS

15:46:59 [LeeF]

ack ivan

15:47:03 [SteveH]

+1 to AndyS

15:47:04 [ericP]

... i like to work on one thing at a time, and do i properly

15:47:16 [ericP]

ivan: short charter, and rec process takes time and energy

15:47:26 [AndyS]

s/do i /do it /

15:47:30 [ericP]

... publishing several things in a staggered way could backfire

15:47:42 [bijan]

q+ to answer

15:47:51 [ericP]

... bijan, is the idea to pub sparql1,1, 1,2, 1.3?

15:47:52 [bijan]

zakim, unmute me

15:47:52 [Zakim]

bijan should no longer be muted

15:48:05 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/01/sparql-charter.html#deliverables

15:48:09 [iv_an_ru]

+q

15:48:12 [ericP]

bijan, was wondering if we could modularize parts into specs.

15:48:24 [bijan]

zakim, mute me

15:48:24 [Zakim]

bijan should now be muted

15:48:26 [ericP]

... e.g. separate owl semantics spec

15:48:59 [Zakim]

+Souri_Das

15:49:01 [Zakim]

-Souri

15:49:01 [LeeF]

ack ericP

15:49:11 [bijan]

The HTML5 spec indicates the stability levels of different *sections* of the spec...which might be good for implementors

15:49:13 [ericP]

LeeF: modularizing sounds great, if we can modularize ourselves

15:49:17 [AndyS]

+1 to modularization (if it does not cause rework just for modulrity)

15:49:26 [LeeF]

ack bijan

15:49:27 [Zakim]

bijan, you wanted to answer

15:49:32 [LeeF]

zakim, mute bijan

15:49:33 [Zakim]

bijan should now be muted

15:49:35 [bijan]

zakim, mute me

15:49:35 [Zakim]

bijan was already muted, bijan

15:50:38 [LeeF]

ack AxelPolleres

15:50:44 [sandro]

RRSAgent, pointer?

15:50:44 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc#T15-50-44

15:50:47 [ericP]

ericP: could modularize sections, do tests and impl reports, and package as a spec when we get near the end

15:51:10 [ericP]

AxelPolleres: use cases should identify which spec they affect (e.g. protocol, xml results format)

15:51:25 [ericP]

... we've listed deliverables in the charter. we're not bound to that?

15:51:42 [ericP]

LeeF: nope. our deliverables will fall out from our use cases

15:52:04 [SteveH]

q+ to ask about terminology

15:52:16 [LeeF]

ack iv_an_ru

15:52:57 [ericP]

iv_an_ru: not sure the final doc should be a single spec, e.g. SPARQL1.1

15:53:09 [ericP]

... they [features] are more useful when used together

15:53:24 [ericP]

... when i need business intelligence, i need it on everything

15:53:29 [ivan]

+1 to iv_an_ru

15:53:34 [ericP]

LeeF: don't expect us to break up core parts

15:54:07 [LeeF]

q?

15:54:13 [LeeF]

ack SteveH

15:54:13 [Zakim]

SteveH, you wanted to ask about terminology

15:54:13 [bijan]

The spec shouldn't have everything it but neither should it be the minimal publishable unit

15:54:17 [ericP]

... don't want to lose interop if all these features are on their own specs

15:54:21 [bijan]

Rightsizing!

15:55:01 [ericP]

SteveH: do we want use cases?

15:55:09 [bijan]

New features + rationale?

15:55:14 [ericP]

... am nagged by calling features "use cases"

15:55:14 [iv_an_ru]

yes!

15:55:20 [AxelPolleres]

q+

15:55:31 [ericP]

... just want to call them what they are

15:55:32 [chimezie]

then perhaps we should be a little more explicit in the request for what we want (usecase v.s. feature request)

15:55:32 [bijan]

(The OWL document is called "new features and rationales"

15:55:42 [ericP]

LeeF: agreed. would like to dive straight into features

15:56:11 [ericP]

SteveH: when we prioritize, we'll talk about use cases, regardless of whether we write them down

15:56:36 [AndyS]

While features are natural/obvious this is OK but if one comes along which the WG as a whole finds unobvious, we need to back off to use cases.

15:56:49 [LeeF]

+1 to AndyS_

15:56:53 [SteveH]

+1

15:56:53 [ericP]

AxelPolleres: template rationale: thought the features we want to add should be driven by practical examples

15:57:07 [iv_an_ru]

use cases should be written down at least in our wiki, if not in final docs, because they demonstrate how features "interoperate".

15:57:14 [bijan]

Use cases doesn't exhaust...e.g., implementability are also considerations

15:57:17 [ericP]

... had in mind to merge use cases in the 2nd phase

15:57:28 [ericP]

... good feature requests often have a use case around them

15:57:57 [iv_an_ru]

Let's think that everything is implementable :)

15:58:01 [bijan]

So, new feature: "Awesome feature"; rationale: "here's the intuition", "here's the implementation considerations", "here's some use cases"

15:58:10 [ericP]

... if you a system with .e.g aggregates, add you syntax to that feature

15:58:58 [bijan]

Are we all registered in the wiki? If not what do we do?

15:59:21 [SteveH]

+1 to calling the features and having a usecase subsection

15:59:27 [ericP]

LeeF: let's call them features (tweak the template), add a section for use cases under each feature, and have example syntaxes for the feature

15:59:44 [LukeWM]

+1 to that too

15:59:49 [ywang4]

will go offline shortly, have fun :)

15:59:59 [ericP]

APPROVED: rename "use cases" to "features"

16:00:10 [Zakim]

-Chimezie_Ogbuji

16:00:14 [bijan]

Did I miss the in

16:00:18 [ywang4]

ywang4 has left #sparql

16:00:25 [bijan]

structiosn for getting on the wiki?

16:00:33 [Zakim]

-john-l

16:00:53 [bijan]

Oh. Ewwwww

16:00:57 [LeeF]

I'll send a bunch about this in email

16:01:09 [Zakim]

-ywang4

16:02:12 [LeeF]

ack AndyS

16:02:12 [Zakim]

AndyS, you wanted to ask about outside contributions

16:02:26 [AxelPolleres]

q-

16:02:52 [ericP]

AndyS: what about folks who are not in the group, but plan to join

16:02:58 [ericP]

... ?

16:03:08 [ivan]

q+

16:03:09 [ericP]

LeeF: would like folks to send to public-rdf-dawg-comments

16:03:35 [LeeF]

ack ivan

16:03:39 [bijan]

+1 to open solicitation

16:03:40 [SteveH]

risks a lot of work sorting out duplicates

16:03:44 [ericP]

AndyS: danger of opening floodgate

16:03:46 [SteveH]

but still +1

16:03:50 [bijan]

We can always say "no" :)

16:03:59 [LeeF]

I'll take the responsibility for sorting out dupes :-)

16:04:10 [AxelPolleres]

q+

16:04:25 [bijan]

No specification without championiation!

16:04:27 [iv_an_ru]

We can invite people to read the wiki before (re)submitting proposals :)

16:04:39 [LeeF]

iv_an_ru +1

16:04:53 [AxelPolleres]

heavy echo

16:05:04 [Zakim]

-EricP

16:05:08 [Zakim]

-bijan

16:05:10 [bijan]

ta ta

16:05:18 [AxelPolleres]

scribenick: AxelPolleres

16:05:48 [AxelPolleres]

Ivan: we can allow input from those who intend to join.

16:05:52 [ericP]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:05:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html ericP

16:05:57 [ericP]

RRSAgent, please make log world-visible

16:06:14 [AxelPolleres]

Lee: Will sned an email on the list to gather as many features as we can by next week.

16:06:19 [iv_an_ru]

Even more, implementation providers may announce in their support mailing lists that they collect wishes for SPARQL 2.0 and act as proxies.

16:06:38 [AndyS]

SPARQL 1.1 please. Not 2.0. It's incremental!

16:06:44 [AxelPolleres]

... Is it appropriate to list that on the blog as well.

16:06:46 [SteveH]

+1 to SPARQL 1.1

16:06:48 [AxelPolleres]

Ivan: sure.

16:07:03 [iv_an_ru]

ok, SPARQL 1.1

16:07:18 [AxelPolleres]

Ivan: Next week will be messy, since meeting is one hour earlier!!!

16:07:38 [SteveH]

bye

16:07:40 [AxelPolleres]

meeting adjourned

16:07:41 [Zakim]

-Ori

16:07:43 [Zakim]

-daveNewman

16:07:44 [Zakim]

-[Garlik]

16:07:44 [Zakim]

-ivan

16:07:44 [Zakim]

-LeeF

16:07:46 [Zakim]

-iv_an_ru

16:07:49 [Zakim]

-kasei

16:07:51 [Zakim]

-Souri_Das

16:07:53 [Zakim]

-terraces

16:07:59 [AxelPolleres]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:07:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres

16:08:22 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:08:30 [AxelPolleres]

RRSAgent, list attendees

16:08:30 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:08:38 [LeeF]

AxelPolleres, do you want to try to follow the scribe instructions, or would you like me to?

16:08:38 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, list attendees

16:08:38 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been LeeF, kasei, AndyS, +1.216.445.aaaa, iv_an_ru, bijan, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, john-l, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb, ywang4,

16:08:42 [Zakim]

... +1.603.897.aacc, Souri, EricP, Ori, daveNewman, Souri_Das

16:08:43 [AxelPolleres]

RRSAgent, list attendees

16:08:43 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:08:45 [AxelPolleres]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:08:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres

16:08:57 [Zakim]

-AxelPolleres

16:08:59 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

16:09:01 [Zakim]

Attendees were LeeF, kasei, AndyS, +1.216.445.aaaa, iv_an_ru, bijan, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, john-l, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb, ywang4, +1.603.897.aacc, Souri,

16:09:03 [Zakim]

... EricP, Ori, daveNewman, Souri_Das

16:11:12 [LukeWM_]

LukeWM_ has joined #sparql

16:11:23 [SteveH]

SteveH has joined #sparql

16:12:05 [LeeF]

ok, I'm on the minutes, plus sending variety of emails to people

16:12:13 [LeeF]

but not for a few hours :D