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RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 17 November 2011

Seen
Gregg Kellogg, Ivan Herman, Manu Sporny, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Stéphane Corlosquet, Ted Thibodeau, Thomas Steiner, Unknown Lindström, Unknown niklasl
Regrets
Manu Sporny, Steven Pemberton
Chair
Ivan Herman
Scribe
Gregg Kellogg
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes link
  2. if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag link
  3. Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element definition for datatypes link
  4. add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion link
  5. allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character link
Topics

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14:28:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-irc

14:28:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:28:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332

14:28:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes

14:28:34 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
14:28:34 <trackbot> Date: 17 November 2011
14:28:41 <ivan> Chair: Ivan
14:28:53 <ivan> Regrets: Manu, Steven
14:29:13 <tomayac> sorry, i can only attend via IRC today

Thomas Steiner: sorry, i can only attend via IRC today

14:29:22 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda, Nov 17, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html

Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda, Nov 17, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html

14:29:32 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html agenda call

Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html agenda call

14:29:49 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes

14:29:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan

14:56:47 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

(No events recorded for 26 minutes)

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:56:47 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:56:48 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

14:56:49 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:58:20 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28

14:58:30 <ShaneM> zakim, I am ??P28

Shane McCarron: zakim, I am ??P28

14:58:30 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it

14:59:54 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5

15:00:03 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P5

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P5

15:00:12 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it

15:00:27 <ivan> scribe: Gregg

(Scribe set to Gregg Kellogg)

15:00:32 <ivan> scribenick: gkellogg
15:01:15 <Zakim> +scor

Zakim IRC Bot: +scor

15:01:38 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink]

15:01:55 <scor> zakim, who is on the phone?

Stéphane Corlosquet: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, [OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, [OpenLink]

15:01:59 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software

15:01:59 <MacTed> zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:02:07 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it

15:02:09 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:02:19 <ivan> Topic: admin

1. admin

15:02:32 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/meetings/2011-11-03 last meeting's minutes

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/meetings/2011-11-03 last meeting's minutes

15:02:52 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

15:03:00 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +niklasl; got it

15:03:16 <gkellogg> Minutes accepted

Minutes accepted

15:03:45 <gkellogg> Next Thursday's meeting would be on Thanksgiving in the U.S.

Next Thursday's meeting would be on Thanksgiving in the U.S.

15:04:00 <gkellogg> // Propose to cancel next meeting.

// Propose to cancel next meeting.

15:04:03 <MacTed> s/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-03/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-10/

Ted Thibodeau: s/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-03/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-10/ (warning: replacement failed)

15:04:13 <MacTed> (that *might* be escaped properly)

Ted Thibodeau: (that *might* be escaped properly)

15:04:45 <gkellogg> On to "low-hanging" fruit

On to "low-hanging" fruit

15:04:56 <ivan> Topic: Low hanging fruits

2. Low hanging fruits

15:05:03 <ivan> ISSUE-97?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-97?

15:05:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Determine if datetime should be supported in HTML5 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-97 -- Determine if datetime should be supported in HTML5 -- open

15:05:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/97

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/97

15:05:42 <gkellogg> ivan: had mailing list discussion and there seems general agreement that it should be accepted.

Ivan Herman: had mailing list discussion and there seems general agreement that it should be accepted.

15:05:58 <gkellogg> … some details to settle, being specific XSD datatypes to use.

… some details to settle, being specific XSD datatypes to use.

15:06:13 <gkellogg> … dateTime, time, date, gYear, …, duration

… dateTime, time, date, gYear, …, duration

15:06:33 <gkellogg> … My proposal to keep to HTML5 micro syntax doc: dateTime, date, time.

… My proposal to keep to HTML5 micro syntax doc: dateTime, date, time.

15:06:34 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl

15:06:38 <MacTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

15:06:51 <gkellogg> niklasl: agree that HTML5 spec should dictate allowed values.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: agree that HTML5 spec should dictate allowed values.

15:07:09 <gkellogg> … not sure that the detail prevents using other XSD types

… not sure that the detail prevents using other XSD types

15:07:30 <ivan> ack MacTed

Ivan Herman: ack MacTed

15:07:32 <gkellogg> … all types are possible to unambiguously match. We could do this if HTML5 allows for it.

… all types are possible to unambiguously match. We could do this if HTML5 allows for it.

15:07:59 <gkellogg> MacTed: looking at the issue, it seems that TimeZones are catered for. If not, this must be addressed.

Ted Thibodeau: looking at the issue, it seems that TimeZones are catered for. If not, this must be addressed.

15:08:12 <tomayac> +1 to niklasl. let's have html5 dictate the allowed values.

Thomas Steiner: +1 to niklasl. let's have html5 dictate the allowed values.

15:08:13 <gkellogg> ivan: timezones are supported.

Ivan Herman: timezones are supported.

15:08:21 <gkellogg> … includes full microsyntax

… includes full microsyntax

15:08:25 <gkellogg> q+

q+

15:08:27 <MacTed> q-

Ted Thibodeau: q-

15:08:31 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg

15:10:36 <gkellogg> gkellogg: HTML5 iso a moving target, and we should indicate willingness to follow.

Gregg Kellogg: HTML5 iso a moving target, and we should indicate willingness to follow.

15:11:01 <gkellogg> ivan: can make a proposal to add date, dateTime and date today, but intention is to follow the HTML5 spec.

Ivan Herman: can make a proposal to add date, dateTime and time today, but intention is to follow the HTML5 spec.

15:11:16 <MacTed> s/date today/time today/
15:11:35 <ivan> PROPOSAL: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes

PROPOSED: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes

15:11:49 <gkellogg> +1

+1

15:11:49 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: +1

15:11:50 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:11:50 <tomayac> +1

Thomas Steiner: +1

15:11:53 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1

15:11:54 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1

15:11:56 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:12:02 <ivan> RESOLVED: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes

RESOLVED: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes

15:12:39 <gkellogg> ivan: side remark from jeni: we did say that if the lexical content does not match any datatype, then generate a plain literal.

Ivan Herman: side remark from jeni: we did say that if the lexical content does not match any datatype, then generate a plain literal.

15:12:53 <gkellogg> … however, it should ignore language setting.

… however, it should ignore language setting.

15:12:54 <gkellogg> q+

q+

15:13:01 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg

15:13:09 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss language

Shane McCarron: q+ to discuss language

15:13:20 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: q+

15:13:56 <ivan> ack ShaneM

Ivan Herman: ack ShaneM

15:13:56 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss language

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to discuss language

15:14:00 <gkellogg> gkellogg: also includes text content if there is no @datetime attribute.

Gregg Kellogg: also includes text content if there is no @datetime attribute.

15:14:12 <gkellogg> shanem: concerned about "plethora" of special cases.

Shane McCarron: concerned about "plethora" of special cases.

15:14:31 <gkellogg> … @about on root element is another example, and issues with <head> and <body>

… @about on root element is another example, and issues with <head> and <body>

15:15:11 <gkellogg> … including text content, otherwise it doesn't match gYear, ...

… including text content, otherwise it doesn't match gYear, ...

15:15:35 <gkellogg> … another example of something to keep track of, also the fact that there's no language.

… another example of something to keep track of, also the fact that there's no language.

15:15:51 <gkellogg> ivan: understand concern, but it generates better triples.

Ivan Herman: understand concern, but it generates better triples.

15:16:19 <gkellogg> … for element content, we always say that literals that we generate keep whitespace. We should maintain the general rule.

… for element content, we always say that literals that we generate keep whitespace. We should maintain the general rule.

15:16:53 <gkellogg> … It may mean that some patterns aren't matched, but they can be constructed to match.

… It may mean that some patterns aren't matched, but they can be constructed to match.

15:17:07 <gkellogg> niklasl: we don't normalize? (no we don't)

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: we don't normalize? (no we don't)

15:17:15 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q?

15:17:17 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl

15:17:24 <Niklas Lindström> "Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:13:39 GMT"

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: "Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:13:39 GMT"

15:17:27 <gkellogg> … agree with language.

… agree with language.

15:17:44 <gkellogg> ivan: this does not follow micro syntax.

Ivan Herman: this does not follow micro syntax.

15:18:02 <gkellogg> … would be a string (plain literal) with no language tag

… would be a string (plain literal) with no language tag

15:18:23 <ShaneM> q+ to get a clarification on element content

Shane McCarron: q+ to get a clarification on element content

15:18:41 <gkellogg> niklasl: don't think things are as bad as they seem, as we are making things helpful for authors.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: don't think things are as bad as they seem, as we are making things helpful for authors.

15:18:43 <ivan> ack ShaneM

Ivan Herman: ack ShaneM

15:18:44 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to get a clarification on element content

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to get a clarification on element content

15:18:58 <gkellogg> shanem: might be confused about earlier +1

Shane McCarron: might be confused about earlier +1

15:19:29 <gkellogg> … thought we were agreeing on @datetime as dateTime, …. Otherwise no triple.

… thought we were agreeing on @datetime as dateTime, …. Otherwise no triple.

15:19:55 <gkellogg> ivan: we said in case string does not match any datatypes we put out a plain literal with the content.

Ivan Herman: we said in case string does not match any datatypes we put out a plain literal with the content.

15:20:16 <gkellogg> … it is the property plus the value as a plain literal without language.

… it is the property plus the value as a plain literal without language.

15:20:26 <gkellogg> … no XSD datatype

… no XSD datatype

15:21:08 <gkellogg> shanem: disagree with that, if it doesn't match the pattern, it should get language.

Shane McCarron: disagree with that, if it doesn't match the pattern, it should get language.

15:21:26 <ShaneM> <time property="my:time">its time to fly</time>

Shane McCarron: <time property="my:time">its time to fly</time>

15:21:39 <gkellogg> ivan: looking at nilasl's example, it is definitely in english.

Ivan Herman: looking at nilasl's example, it is definitely in english.

15:22:17 <ivan> PROPOSAL: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag

PROPOSED: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag

15:22:23 <gkellogg> +1

+1

15:22:24 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1

15:22:24 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1

15:22:26 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:22:26 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: +1

15:22:34 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:22:36 <ivan> RESOLVED: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag

RESOLVED: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag

15:22:36 <ShaneM> re: whitespace, this is what the spec says now:  A conforming RDFa Processor must preserve white space in both plain literals and XML literals. However, it may be the case that the architecture in which a processor operates has made changes to the white space in a document before that document ever reaches the RDFa Processor (e.g., [XMLSCHEMA-1] processors are permitted to 'normalize' white space in attribute values - see section 3.1.4). To ensure maximum con

Scribe problem: the name 're' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown re: whitespace, this is what the spec says now: A conforming RDFa Processor must preserve white space in both plain literals and XML literals. However, it may be the case that the architecture in which a processor operates has made changes to the white space in a document before that document ever reaches the RDFa Processor (e.g., [XMLSCHEMA-1] processors are permitted to 'normalize' white space in attribute values - see section 3.1.4). To ensure maximum con [ Scribe Assist by Shane McCarron ]

15:22:43 <gkellogg> gkellogg: microdata-RDF should do the same.

Gregg Kellogg: microdata-RDF should do the same.

15:22:57 <gkellogg> ivan: manu must put this in the HTML5 document.

Ivan Herman: manu must put this in the HTML5 document.

15:23:22 <gkellogg> ACTION: fold into HTML5 document anything relevant from these minutes

ACTION: fold into HTML5 document anything relevant from these minutes

15:23:22 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - fold

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - fold

15:23:25 <ivan> ISSUE-113?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-113?

15:23:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 -- Add the value attribute of the HTML data element as a possible literal target for property -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-113 -- Add the value attribute of the HTML data element as a possible literal target for property -- open

15:23:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/113

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/113

15:24:06 <gkellogg> ivan: value of @value attribute would become a literal target. Similar to @datetime, it is a moving target.

Ivan Herman: value of @value attribute would become a literal target. Similar to @datetime, it is a moving target.

15:24:08 <ShaneM> can datatype effect the interpretation of @value on data ?

Shane McCarron: can datatype effect the interpretation of @value on data ?

15:24:29 <gkellogg> … don't think we should try to guess datatype, must be added specifically.

… don't think we should try to guess datatype, must be added specifically.

15:24:33 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: q+

15:24:37 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl

15:25:09 <gkellogg> niklasl: it might be that the value is intended to convey a "machine readable" value, so perhaps we should guess datatype.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: it might be that the value is intended to convey a "machine readable" value, so perhaps we should guess datatype.

15:25:32 <gkellogg> ivan: we have to rely on what we know today. Based on HTML5 document, we should not go down the road to guessing datatype.

Ivan Herman: we have to rely on what we know today. Based on HTML5 document, we should not go down the road to guessing datatype.

15:25:51 <gkellogg> … language tags issue comes up again.

… language tags issue comes up again.

15:26:13 <gkellogg> shanem: must be included, there's too much unknown.

Shane McCarron: must be included, there's too much unknown.

15:26:14 <gkellogg> q+

q+

15:26:19 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg

15:26:37 <ShaneM> I agree that the language should be preserved for @value on data

Shane McCarron: I agree that the language should be preserved for @value on data

15:27:18 <Niklas Lindström> .. or a number

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: .. or a number

15:27:34 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:28:02 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:28:28 <gkellogg> ivan: I don't think we should go down the route to try to guessing the intention of the author.

Ivan Herman: I don't think we should go down the route to try to guessing the intention of the author.

15:28:29 <ShaneM> q+ to say that we can't know what @value means

Shane McCarron: q+ to say that we can't know what @value means

15:28:55 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: q+

15:29:00 <gkellogg> … The @datetime is clearly there to describe time, for data we have no idea what it is for. It may create situations where the guess is wrong and do more harm than good.

… The @datetime is clearly there to describe time, for data we have no idea what it is for. It may create situations where the guess is wrong and do more harm than good.

15:29:10 <ivan> ack ShaneM

Ivan Herman: ack ShaneM

15:29:10 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to say that we can't know what @value means

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to say that we can't know what @value means

15:29:14 <gkellogg> … if author really wants datatypes, author should put it there.

… if author really wants datatypes, author should put it there.

15:29:22 <ShaneM> <data xml:lang='lt' value='veni, vidi, vici' />

Shane McCarron: <data xml:lang='lt' value='veni, vidi, vici' />

15:29:53 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl

15:29:53 <gkellogg> shanem: data has no semantics, its "data". Even if I could pattern match it, it could be wrong.

Shane McCarron: data has no semantics, its "data". Even if I could pattern match it, it could be wrong.

15:30:17 <gkellogg> nilasl: it's too early for us to do anything based on maturity of HTML5 spec.

Scribe problem: the name 'nilasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown nilasl: it's too early for us to do anything based on maturity of HTML5 spec.

15:30:26 <MacTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

15:30:33 <gkellogg> … it's called "data" as it's clearly intended for machine readable datatypes.

… it's called "data" as it's clearly intended for machine readable datatypes.

15:30:44 <ivan> ack MacTed

Ivan Herman: ack MacTed

15:30:45 <gkellogg> … otherwise, it's just an alias for <span>.

… otherwise, it's just an alias for <span>.

15:31:05 <gkellogg> shanem: how can you be sure of intended datatype?

Shane McCarron: how can you be sure of intended datatype?

15:31:28 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:32:24 <gkellogg> shanem: <time> is clear, but <data> is not.

Shane McCarron: <time> is clear, but <data> is not.

15:32:34 <gkellogg> … too many possibilities.

… too many possibilities.

15:32:36 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:33:14 <gkellogg> ivan: I could say that I might intuit the language of a string and add the language to the literal. That's not our job.

Ivan Herman: I could say that I might intuit the language of a string and add the language to the literal. That's not our job.

15:33:47 <gkellogg> ivan: if HTML5 comes up with a micro syntax, we can look at again. Until then, we should not try to guess it.

Ivan Herman: if HTML5 comes up with a micro syntax, we can look at again. Until then, we should not try to guess it.

15:35:22 <gkellogg> niklasl: revisit if the HTML5 spec becomes more clear.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: revisit if the HTML5 spec becomes more clear.

15:35:54 <ivan> PROPOSAL: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element defintion for datatypes

PROPOSED: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element defintion for datatypes

15:36:01 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: +1

15:36:07 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1

15:36:10 <gkellogg> +1

+1

15:36:10 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:36:10 <tomayac> +1

Thomas Steiner: +1

15:36:13 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:36:17 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1

15:36:23 <ivan> RESOLVED: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element defintion for datatypes

RESOLVED: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element definition for datatypes

15:36:27 <scor> s/defintion/definition
15:36:59 <gkellogg> ACTION: manu1 to resolve to implement 97 and 113

ACTION: manu1 to resolve to implement 97 and 113

15:36:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Resolve to implement 97 and 113 [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-11-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-104 - Resolve to implement 97 and 113 [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-11-24].

15:37:04 <ivan> ISSUE-116?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-116?

15:37:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-116 -- Consider owl terms for vocab expansion -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-116 -- Consider owl terms for vocab expansion -- open

15:37:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/116

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/116

15:37:45 <gkellogg> issue: this would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass.

ISSUE: this would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass.

15:37:45 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-120 - This would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/120/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-120 - This would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/120/edit .

15:38:20 <gkellogg> gkellogg: didn't mean to create an issue, will remove it :(

Gregg Kellogg: didn't mean to create an issue, will remove it :(

15:38:57 <gkellogg> q+

q+

15:38:57 <ivan> PROPOSED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion

PROPOSED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion

15:39:50 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg

15:40:13 <gkellogg> gkellogg: concerned that it adds a greater burden if we don't replace rdfs:subClassOf, etc.

Gregg Kellogg: concerned that it adds a greater burden if we don't replace rdfs:subClassOf, etc.

15:40:57 <gkellogg> ivan: we can't remove the others.

Ivan Herman: we can't remove the others.

15:41:47 <gkellogg> niklasl: OWL does build on RDFS.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: OWL does build on RDFS.

15:41:53 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:41:55 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: +1

15:41:57 <gkellogg> +1

+1

15:42:02 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1

15:42:11 <ivan> RESOLVED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion

RESOLVED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion

15:42:12 <tomayac> n/a

Thomas Steiner: n/a

15:42:26 <gkellogg> ivan: already made a version on the core document, and will CVS commit it.

Ivan Herman: already made a version on the core document, and will CVS commit it.

15:42:53 <gkellogg> … instead of referring to RDFS entailment, refer to OWL ruleset.

… instead of referring to RDFS entailment, refer to OWL ruleset.

15:43:08 <gkellogg> q+

q+

15:43:14 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg

15:43:55 <gkellogg> gkellogg: need to figure out how to deal with optional tests for these issues.

Gregg Kellogg: need to figure out how to deal with optional tests for these issues.

15:44:15 <gkellogg> shanem: the whole is option, implement all or none.

Shane McCarron: the whole is option, implement all or none.

15:44:30 <ivan> ISSUE-118?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-118?

15:44:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Should we consider allowing the '/' character in a term -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-118 -- Should we consider allowing the '/' character in a term -- open

15:44:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/118

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/118

15:45:13 <gkellogg> ivan: "term" defined as NCNAME, meaning that it must begin with a apha char and can't have a '/'.

Ivan Herman: "term" defined as NCNAME, meaning that it must begin with a alpha char and can't have a '/'.

15:45:19 <gkellogg> s/apha/alpha/
15:45:21 <ShaneM> NCTERM is a simple term definintion that does not allow a colon

Shane McCarron: NCTERM is a simple term definintion that does not allow a colon

15:45:23 <ShaneM> NC == No Colon

Shane McCarron: NC == No Colon

15:45:46 <gkellogg> ivan: propose to allow both a number as a first character and a '/'

Ivan Herman: propose to allow both a number as a first character and a '/'

15:45:58 <gkellogg> shanem: can have a number with NCNAME, just not an ID.

Shane McCarron: can have a number with NCNAME, just not an ID.

15:46:03 <ShaneM> vocab=foo

Shane McCarron: vocab=foo

15:46:11 <ShaneM> property='shane'

Shane McCarron: property='shane'

15:46:17 <ShaneM> vocab="foo#'

Shane McCarron: vocab="foo#'

15:46:24 <ShaneM> foo#shane

Shane McCarron: foo#shane

15:46:30 <ShaneM> foo#123shane

Shane McCarron: foo#123shane

15:46:54 <gkellogg> shanem: can't dereference foo:123shane

shanem# can't dereference foo#123shane

15:47:02 <gkellogg> s/:/#/
15:47:07 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: q+

15:47:13 <gkellogg> ivan: so issue is, can we allow a '/'

Ivan Herman: so issue is, can we allow a '/'

15:47:13 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl

15:47:24 <gkellogg> niklasl: but not as the first character

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: but not as the first character

15:47:59 <gkellogg> … can an identifier (NCNAME) begin with a '/'?

… can an identifier (NCNAME) begin with a '/'?

15:48:04 <gkellogg> shanem: can't have one at all.

Shane McCarron: can't have one at all.

15:48:09 <Niklas Lindström> .. fragment identifer

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: .. fragment identifer

15:48:17 <gkellogg> ivan: we're talking about a term which is concatenated.

Ivan Herman: we're talking about a term which is concatenated.

15:48:33 <Niklas Lindström> .. vocab="foo#term-"

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: .. vocab="foo#term-"

15:48:42 <gkellogg> … vocab="foo", term="/shane" get "foo/shane".

… vocab="foo", term="/shane" get "foo/shane".

15:48:57 <gkellogg> … don't see this as an important use case, but don't see why it should be restricted.

… don't see this as an important use case, but don't see why it should be restricted.

15:49:01 <ShaneM> I have no objection to allowing a slash, but not as the first character....q+ to talk about restrictions

Shane McCarron: I have no objection to allowing a slash, but not as the first character....q+ to talk about restrictions

15:50:02 <gkellogg> shanem: we don't have ambiguity now because of datatype restrictions. We only use terms with absURI or CURIE.

Shane McCarron: we don't have ambiguity now because of datatype restrictions. We only use terms with absURI or CURIE.

15:50:38 <gkellogg> niklasl: thinking about problems with JSON-LD which may come up here in RDFa.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: thinking about problems with JSON-LD which may come up here in RDFa.

15:50:43 <ivan> PROPOSAL: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character

PROPOSED: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character

15:50:55 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: +1

15:50:58 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:51:00 <gkellogg> +1

+1

15:51:02 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1

15:51:04 <tomayac> +1

Thomas Steiner: +1

15:51:14 <MacTed> +2

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:51:20 <ivan> RESOLVED: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character

RESOLVED: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character

15:51:20 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1

15:51:24 <MacTed> s/2/1/
15:51:25 <MacTed> :-)

Ted Thibodeau: :-)

15:51:44 <gkellogg> ivan: will commit changes on document with OWL terms. Shane, can you make this change?

Ivan Herman: will commit changes on document with OWL terms. Shane, can you make this change?

15:52:13 <gkellogg> ivan: high-hanging fruit ...

Ivan Herman: high-hanging fruit ...

15:52:18 <ivan> Topic: link relations
15:52:23 <ivan> ISSUE-108?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-108?

15:52:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-108 -- Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile. -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-108 -- Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile. -- open

15:52:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108

15:52:46 <gkellogg> ivan: we had the discussion a few weeks ago and thought we had resolved it.

Ivan Herman: we had the discussion a few weeks ago and thought we had resolved it.

15:53:27 <gkellogg> … IANA seemed reasonable, since then, information is that HTML5 decided not to use it, but instead they rely on the Microformat Wiki.

… IANA seemed reasonable, since then, information is that HTML5 decided not to use it, but instead they rely on the Microformat Wiki.

15:53:44 <gkellogg> … this makes the list changeable and relatively uncontrolled.

… this makes the list changeable and relatively uncontrolled.

15:53:49 <gkellogg> q+

q+

15:54:15 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg

15:54:17 <gkellogg> … must revisit decision. My feeling is to drop link relations altogether.

… must revisit decision. My feeling is to drop link relations altogether.

15:55:17 <gkellogg> gkellogg: I'd drop them too.

Gregg Kellogg: I'd drop them too.

15:55:18 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: q+

15:55:50 <gkellogg> shanem: I don't appreciate the concern about the potential difference between HTML5's and our own. We should continue to use our existing definitions.

Shane McCarron: I don't appreciate the concern about the potential difference between HTML5's and our own. We should continue to use our existing definitions.

15:56:07 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl

15:56:09 <gkellogg> … Wiki and IANA solve a non-problem.

… Wiki and IANA solve a non-problem.

15:56:25 <gkellogg> niklasl: worried about creative commons use of license.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: worried about creative commons use of license.

15:56:59 <gkellogg> ivan: we previously raised with ben, as people commonly use "cc:" prefix. (not too sure, though).

Ivan Herman: we previously raised with ben, as people commonly use "cc:" prefix. (not too sure, though).

15:57:12 <gkellogg> … CC encourages the use of prefixes and CURIEs.

… CC encourages the use of prefixes and CURIEs.

15:57:51 <gkellogg> ivan: can't push through a resolution now.

Ivan Herman: can't push through a resolution now.

15:58:12 <gkellogg> … general sense is agreement, but shanem is not in favor of this.

… general sense is agreement, but shanem is not in favor of this.

15:58:28 <gkellogg> … can't push for a resolution at the top of the hour.

… can't push for a resolution at the top of the hour.

15:58:46 <gkellogg> niklasl: expressed questions on the mailing list.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: expressed questions on the mailing list.

15:58:55 <gkellogg> ivan: continue discussion on the mailing list.

Ivan Herman: continue discussion on the mailing list.

15:59:38 <gkellogg> ivan: open issues, @href content model of URL

Ivan Herman: open issues, @href content model of URL

15:59:47 <gkellogg> … <head> and <body> issues.

… <head> and <body> issues.

15:59:59 <gkellogg> … replace @about with @resource in RDFa Lite

… replace @about with @resource in RDFa Lite

16:00:02 <gkellogg> … Link Relations.

… Link Relations.

16:00:34 <gkellogg> … These seem to be remaining issues. Suggest that we try to reach equilibrium on mailing list so that we can make an easy decision.

… These seem to be remaining issues. Suggest that we try to reach equilibrium on mailing list so that we can make an easy decision.

16:00:50 <gkellogg> … We should publish a draft in Dec. that resolves these issues.

… We should publish a draft in Dec. that resolves these issues.

16:01:13 <gkellogg> ivan: no meeting next week.

Ivan Herman: no meeting next week.

16:02:06 <Zakim> -gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg

16:02:08 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:02:10 <Zakim> -scor

Zakim IRC Bot: -scor

16:02:12 <Zakim> -niklasl

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 28 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: BOUBA FANTA Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Gregg Kellogg Henri Bergius Ivan Herman Jean-Pierre EVAIN John O'Donovan Knud Möller Manu Sporny Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Nan Ma Nathan Rixham Robert Weir Ryan Mcdonough Sarah Pulis Sebastian Germesin Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Stéphane Corlosquet Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner Toby Inkster david schaengold Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -niklasl

16:02:16 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

16:02:20 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

16:02:26 <Zakim> Attendees were Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, MacTed, niklasl

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, MacTed, niklasl

16:02:29 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:02:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan



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