16:00:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-rdf-wg-irc ←
16:00:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
16:00:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
16:00:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now ←
16:00:39 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:00:39 <trackbot> Date: 20 November 2013
16:02:04 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394
Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is 73394 ←
16:02:04 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
16:02:08 <Zakim> +Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus ←
16:02:22 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
16:02:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, David_Wood, [IPcaller], Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ericP, David_Wood, [IPcaller], Guus ←
16:02:29 <AndyS> zakim,ipCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim,ipCaller is me ←
16:02:29 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
16:02:38 <Guus> chair: Guus
16:02:41 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
16:02:41 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
16:02:43 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
16:02:47 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
16:02:51 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P6
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P6 ←
16:02:51 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
16:02:56 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
16:02:59 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
16:03:32 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
16:03:34 <markus> zakim, ??P12 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
16:03:34 <Zakim> +markus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it ←
16:03:35 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
16:04:28 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
16:05:18 <Zakim> +FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon ←
16:05:33 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
16:05:46 <AZ> Zakim, ??P14 is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P14 is me ←
16:05:47 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
16:06:04 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
16:06:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, David_Wood, AndyS, Guus, Ivan (muted), gkellogg, markus, Sandro, PatH, FabGandon, AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ericP, David_Wood, AndyS, Guus, Ivan (muted), gkellogg, markus, Sandro, PatH, FabGandon, AZ ←
16:06:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see PatH, Guus, markus, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, gkellogg, AndyS, FabGandon, ivan, TallTed, manu, Arnaud, yvesr, davidwood, trackbot, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see PatH, Guus, markus, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, gkellogg, AndyS, FabGandon, ivan, TallTed, manu, Arnaud, yvesr, davidwood, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←
16:07:30 <markus> scribe: markus
(Scribe set to Markus Lanthaler)
16:07:43 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
16:07:54 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
16:07:58 <markus> guus: propose to accept the minutes of last week's telecon
Guus Schreiber: propose to accept the minutes of last week's telecon ←
16:08:09 <markus> RESOLVED: accept minutes of last week's telecon
RESOLVED: accept minutes of last week's telecon ←
16:08:27 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
16:08:42 <markus> guus: there are 3 actions...
Guus Schreiber: there are 3 actions... ←
16:08:55 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
16:09:26 <markus> ... all three actions are now done
... all three actions are now done ←
16:09:33 <markus> ... objections?
... objections? ←
16:10:12 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
16:10:14 <markus> ... we'll put ACTION-98 on the agenda next week
... we'll put ACTION-98 on the agenda next week ←
16:10:21 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
16:10:21 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
16:10:23 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:10:23 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
16:10:49 <markus> davidwood: I hope to have something for the next telecon regarding ACTION-193
David Wood: I hope to have something for the next telecon regarding ACTION-193 ←
16:11:31 <markus> guus: closing ACTION-268 (actions are for concrete actions)
Guus Schreiber: closing ACTION-268 (actions are for concrete actions) ←
16:13:17 <Zakim> +zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2 ←
16:14:45 <PatH> I should be able to attend (from the USA)
Patrick Hayes: I should be able to attend (from the USA) ←
16:15:07 <markus> guus: antoine, I suggest you include Sandro's boxed datasets to section 4 to your note
Guus Schreiber: antoine, I suggest you include Sandro's boxed datasets to section 4 to your note ←
16:15:09 <AZ> yes, please send the link
Antoine Zimmermann: yes, please send the link ←
16:15:25 <markus> ... section 3 looks very complete but section 4 needs more work
... section 3 looks very complete but section 4 needs more work ←
16:15:48 <markus> TOPIC: CR implementations
16:16:53 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
16:16:54 <markus> gkellogg: nothing new but the traffic on the mailing list suggests that people are working on implementations
Gregg Kellogg: nothing new but the traffic on the mailing list suggests that people are working on implementations ←
16:17:02 <pchampin> zakim, ??P25 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P25 is me ←
16:17:02 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
16:17:41 <markus> ... we are also waiting for a couple of tests from, e.g., Peter Ansell
... we are also waiting for a couple of tests from, e.g., Peter Ansell ←
16:18:16 <markus> ... the reports haven't been updated yet
... the reports haven't been updated yet ←
16:18:38 <markus> ... they don't contain the new tests
... they don't contain the new tests ←
16:19:00 <markus> ... we have no implementations which pass the new tests yet
... we have no implementations which pass the new tests yet ←
16:19:23 <markus> ... will re-generate the reports as soon as andy and I updated our implementations
... will re-generate the reports as soon as andy and I updated our implementations ←
16:19:44 <markus> guus: ok.. the only problem I see is the semantics test suite
Guus Schreiber: ok.. the only problem I see is the semantics test suite ←
16:19:55 <markus> ... peter approached a number of people
... peter approached a number of people ←
16:20:09 <markus> ... we could have a timing problem here.. we need to get this done till middle of december
... we could have a timing problem here.. we need to get this done till middle of december ←
16:20:52 <markus> ... someone willing or planning to do an implementation for the semantics tests?
... someone willing or planning to do an implementation for the semantics tests? ←
16:22:54 <markus> ... if we make no progress till next week we may need to do some emergency actions, i.e., work ourselves on implementations
... if we make no progress till next week we may need to do some emergency actions, i.e., work ourselves on implementations ←
16:23:27 <markus> TOPIC: CR comments
16:23:40 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
16:24:06 <markus> ericP: it's difficult to get reponses from commenters
Eric Prud'hommeaux: it's difficult to get reponses from commenters ←
16:25:09 <AndyS> Also reply re ISSUE-172
Andy Seaborne: Also reply re ISSUE-172 ←
16:25:52 <PatH> +1 to not changing anything now.
Patrick Hayes: +1 to not changing anything now. ←
16:29:04 <markus> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-rdf-term
http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-rdf-term ←
16:30:49 <AZ> Henry Story has just sent RESOLVED
Antoine Zimmermann: Henry Story has just sent RESOLVED ←
16:32:51 <AndyS> TriG / Bare collections http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0080.html
Andy Seaborne: TriG / Bare collections http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0080.html ←
16:33:20 <markus> ACTION for davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts
ACTION for davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts ←
16:33:20 <trackbot> Error finding 'for'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'for'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>. ←
16:33:25 <markus> ACTION on davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts
ACTION on davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts ←
16:33:25 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>. ←
16:33:32 <markus> ACTION davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts
ACTION davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts ←
16:33:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Describe how sparql datasets relate to rdf datasets in rdf concepts [on David Wood - due 2013-11-27].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-326 - Describe how sparql datasets relate to rdf datasets in rdf concepts [on David Wood - due 2013-11-27]. ←
16:34:25 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#c3 marked resolved. now to pester David Robillard...
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#c3 marked resolved. now to pester David Robillard... ←
16:39:04 <markus> gregg: I think TriG compatiblity with N3 is more on the syntactic level not semantic
Gregg Kellogg: I think TriG compatiblity with N3 is more on the syntactic level not semantic ←
16:39:17 <markus> andys: not sure.. it talks about provenance etc.
Andy Seaborne: not sure.. it talks about provenance etc. ←
16:39:19 <PatH> Peter, do you have any news of progress on semantics text suite implementations?? We were discussing this earlier.
Patrick Hayes: Peter, do you have any news of progress on semantics text suite implementations?? We were discussing this earlier. ←
16:39:26 <Guus> this is not a WG requirement, so let's not spend too much time on it
Guus Schreiber: this is not a WG requirement, so let's not spend too much time on it ←
16:39:42 <PatH> text/test
Patrick Hayes: text/test ←
16:39:47 <markus> gregg: a solution would be to disallow bare graphs
Gregg Kellogg: a solution would be to disallow bare graphs ←
16:40:16 <PatH> graph modesty should be accepted by all civilized people.
Patrick Hayes: graph modesty should be accepted by all civilized people. ←
16:40:20 <markus> guus: how much time do we wanna spend on this? it's not a WG requirement
Guus Schreiber: how much time do we wanna spend on this? it's not a WG requirement ←
16:40:37 <markus> andys: I propose we do no nothing.. it's too late
Andy Seaborne: I propose we do no nothing.. it's too late ←
16:41:01 <markus> sandro: we are not doing N3 so compatibility to Turtle is most important
Sandro Hawke: we are not doing N3 so compatibility to Turtle is most important ←
16:41:14 <markus> ... we are moving towards SPARQL-style
... we are moving towards SPARQL-style ←
16:41:32 <markus> ... at some point we should deprecate the other forms
... at some point we should deprecate the other forms ←
16:41:36 <PatH> bare graphs and now content sniffing? This is getting out of hand.
Patrick Hayes: bare graphs and now content sniffing? This is getting out of hand. ←
16:42:02 <pfps> I haven't heard back from anyone on entailment implementations, except for initial ACKs.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I haven't heard back from anyone on entailment implementations, except for initial ACKs. ←
16:42:09 <markus> gregg: a problem in practice is that sometimes it becomes very difficult to tell what format a file is in by just looking at its content
Gregg Kellogg: a problem in practice is that sometimes it becomes very difficult to tell what format a file is in by just looking at its content ←
16:42:10 <PatH> OK tnx.
Patrick Hayes: OK tnx. ←
16:44:30 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0090.html
Andy Seaborne: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0090.html ←
16:44:31 <markus> guus: TriG compatibility with N-Quads
Guus Schreiber: TriG compatibility with N-Quads ←
16:44:55 <markus> andys: there's a proposed reply here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0090.html
Andy Seaborne: there's a proposed reply here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0090.html ←
16:45:18 <markus> ... not really what the commenter asked for but should resolve the issue
... not really what the commenter asked for but should resolve the issue ←
16:45:37 <PatH> Is there a less squirrely change to the grammar that would get the quads he wants?
Patrick Hayes: Is there a less squirrely change to the grammar that would get the quads he wants? ←
16:46:03 <markus> ... TriG and Turtle are "human-readable" formats.. N-Quads/N-Triples are intended for data dumps
... TriG and Turtle are "human-readable" formats.. N-Quads/N-Triples are intended for data dumps ←
16:46:11 <markus> guus: I can live with this proposed response
Guus Schreiber: I can live with this proposed response ←
16:46:51 <markus> gkellogg: I agree with andy
Gregg Kellogg: I agree with andy ←
16:47:25 <markus> path: I agree to but think we talk about "human readable" etc. in the response
Patrick Hayes: I agree but think we talk about "human readable" etc. in the response ←
16:47:39 <markus> s/agree to but/agree but/
16:48:02 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0094.html
Andy Seaborne: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0094.html ←
16:48:49 <markus> andys: "Escaped characters in N-Triples" indirectly affects all syntaxes
Andy Seaborne: "Escaped characters in N-Triples" indirectly affects all syntaxes ←
16:49:08 <markus> ... I'm wondering if the change was intentional or if it was an editorial mistake
... I'm wondering if the change was intentional or if it was an editorial mistake ←
16:49:17 <markus> ... if we don't know.. we have to make a decision
... if we don't know.. we have to make a decision ←
16:50:18 <markus> ... we can be liberal.. counterargument: it introduces more ways to write the same thing
... we can be liberal.. counterargument: it introduces more ways to write the same thing ←
16:53:39 <markus> guus: we should be consistent across our syntaxes and we shouldn't introduce major design changes
Guus Schreiber: we should be consistent across our syntaxes and we shouldn't introduce major design changes ←
16:53:47 <markus> ... I'll go with the majority
... I'll go with the majority ←
16:53:59 <markus> andys: I don't care.. I don't believe in canonical N-Triples
Andy Seaborne: I don't care.. I don't believe in canonical N-Triples ←
16:54:38 <markus> ... if we remove it it's a change to the CR docs so it's probably better to leave it as-is
... if we remove it it's a change to the CR docs so it's probably better to leave it as-is ←
16:55:23 <markus> gregg: should we add a syntax test or be completely silent on it?
Gregg Kellogg: should we add a syntax test or be completely silent on it? ←
16:55:34 <FabGandon> ok
Fabien Gandon: ok ←
16:55:52 <markus> andys: we should do nothing (it should have been a negative syntax test)
Andy Seaborne: we should do nothing (it should have been a negative syntax test) ←
16:56:13 <markus> TOPIC: RDF/XML
16:56:50 <FabGandon> Status
Fabien Gandon: Status ←
16:56:51 <FabGandon> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-RDF-XML
Fabien Gandon: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-RDF-XML ←
16:57:27 <AndyS> AndyS: do not want to add a negative syntax test for \' if we decide to not have \' formally in NT and Nq
Andy Seaborne: do not want to add a negative syntax test for \' if we decide to not have \' formally in NT and Nq [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
16:57:43 <markus> FabGandon: 1-4 are done
Fabien Gandon: 1-4 are done ←
16:57:56 <markus> ... 5-6 are open errata
... 5-6 are open errata ←
16:58:10 <markus> ... I need someone else to take a look to make sure I don't make a mistake
... I need someone else to take a look to make sure I don't make a mistake ←
16:58:52 <markus> ... 7 should probably not be done
... 7 should probably not be done ←
16:58:54 <markus> ... 8 is done
... 8 is done ←
17:00:54 <markus> ACTION guus to review proposed changes in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-RDF-XML
ACTION guus to review proposed changes in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-RDF-XML ←
17:00:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Review proposed changes in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/tf-rdf-xml [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-27].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-327 - Review proposed changes in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/tf-rdf-xml [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-27]. ←
17:01:29 <markus> guus: we can only do this if we publish this as revised proposed recommendation in december
Guus Schreiber: we can only do this if we publish this as revised proposed recommendation in december ←
17:01:31 <Arnaud> sorry, got to go
Arnaud Le Hors: sorry, got to go ←
17:01:35 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
17:02:16 <markus> TOPIC: Primer
17:02:29 <markus> guus: any reviewers for primer?
Guus Schreiber: any reviewers for primer? ←
17:02:47 <pchampin> I volunteer to review it
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I volunteer to review it ←
17:02:50 <PatH> I volunteer. Can I make some suggested edits to it?
Patrick Hayes: I volunteer. Can I make some suggested edits to it? ←
17:03:49 <PatH> Thats where I will bite first :-)
Patrick Hayes: Thats where I will bite first :-) ←
17:04:15 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
17:04:34 <Zakim> -FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon ←
17:04:59 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
17:05:11 <markus> TOPIC: RDF Schema
17:05:13 <markus> guus: RDF schema document is in good shape
Guus Schreiber: RDF schema document is in good shape ←
17:05:25 <markus> ... there's a link with a diff to the previous version
... there's a link with a diff to the previous version ←
17:05:35 <markus> zakim, who is making noise?
zakim, who is making noise? ←
17:05:47 <Zakim> markus, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: markus (19%), PatH (82%)
Zakim IRC Bot: markus, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: markus (19%), PatH (82%) ←
17:05:52 <markus> zakim, mute PatH
zakim, mute PatH ←
17:05:52 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted ←
17:06:16 <markus> guus: I did a number of edits... could someone review them?
Guus Schreiber: I did a number of edits... could someone review them? ←
17:06:45 <markus> davidwood: I'll do as soon as I'm done with my other actions
David Wood: I'll do as soon as I'm done with my other actions ←
17:07:17 <markus> guus: adjourned
Guus Schreiber: adjourned ←
17:07:20 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
17:07:22 <pfps> I looked over the initial set of edits to RDF Schema, and they all looked OK, I think.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I looked over the initial set of edits to RDF Schema, and they all looked OK, I think. ←
17:07:23 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
17:07:24 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
17:07:24 <Zakim> -David_Wood
Zakim IRC Bot: -David_Wood ←
17:07:25 <Zakim> -markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -markus ←
17:07:26 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
17:07:28 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
17:07:29 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
17:07:32 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
17:07:34 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
17:07:36 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
17:07:45 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting ←
17:07:45 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
17:07:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ericP, David_Wood, Guus, AndyS, Ivan, gkellogg, markus, Sandro, PatH, FabGandon, AZ, Souri, Arnaud, TallTed, zwu2, pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been ericP, David_Wood, Guus, AndyS, Ivan, gkellogg, markus, Sandro, PatH, FabGandon, AZ, Souri, Arnaud, TallTed, zwu2, pchampin ←
17:07:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
17:07:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot ←
17:07:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
17:07:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe