15:56:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc ←
15:56:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:56:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
15:56:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
15:56:59 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:56:59 <trackbot> Date: 06 November 2013
15:58:12 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:58:14 <Zakim> +pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps ←
15:59:19 <Zakim> +Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus ←
15:59:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:59:30 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:59:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Guus, [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Guus, [IPcaller] ←
15:59:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see AZ, Guus, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, TallTed, gavinc, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, yvesr, sandro, trackbot, manu, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AZ, Guus, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, TallTed, gavinc, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, yvesr, sandro, trackbot, manu, ericP ←
15:59:34 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
15:59:34 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:59:51 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:59:58 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P3 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:59:58 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
16:00:21 <Zakim> +GavinC
Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC ←
16:00:34 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
16:00:42 <AZ> Zakim, ??P6 is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P6 is me ←
16:00:42 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
16:01:25 <Zakim> +David_Wood
Zakim IRC Bot: +David_Wood ←
16:01:44 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
16:02:05 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
16:02:09 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P10
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P10 ←
16:02:09 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
16:02:13 <Guus> we need a scribe!!
Guus Schreiber: we need a scribe!! ←
16:02:23 <Guus> chair: Guus
16:02:41 <Guus> zakim, pick a scribe
Guus Schreiber: zakim, pick a scribe ←
16:02:41 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yvesr ←
16:02:53 <Guus> zakim, pick a scribe
Guus Schreiber: zakim, pick a scribe ←
16:02:53 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro ←
16:03:34 <yvesr> sorry, scribed last week :)
Yves Raimond: sorry, scribed last week :) ←
16:03:40 <sandro> scribe: sandro
(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)
16:04:27 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
16:04:30 <Guus> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 30 Oct telecon:
Guus Schreiber: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 30 Oct telecon: ←
16:04:34 <markus> zakim, ??P14 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P14 is me ←
16:04:34 <Zakim> +markus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it ←
16:05:31 <sandro> action: guus to write up scribe schedule for remaining meetings
ACTION: guus to write up scribe schedule for remaining meetings ←
16:05:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-321 - Write up scribe schedule for remaining meetings [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-13].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-321 - Write up scribe schedule for remaining meetings [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-13]. ←
16:05:40 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
16:05:40 <AZ> +1 accept minutes
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 accept minutes ←
16:05:50 <Arnaud> sorry I'm late
Arnaud Le Hors: sorry I'm late ←
16:05:56 <Guus> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 30 Oct telecon:
Guus Schreiber: RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 30 Oct telecon: ←
16:06:04 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
16:06:12 <sandro> RESOLVED: to accept the minutes of the 30 Oct telecon
RESOLVED: to accept the minutes of the 30 Oct telecon ←
16:06:43 <sandro> guus: closing 4 action items on which ericP claimed vistory
Guus Schreiber: closing 4 action items on which ericP claimed vistory ←
16:07:13 <pfps> yes, I contacted Michael
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, I contacted Michael ←
16:08:29 <pfps> q+
16:08:40 <pfps> q-
16:08:41 <AndyS> q+ to mention licensing issues.
Andy Seaborne: q+ to mention licensing issues. ←
16:08:44 <sandro> guus: Hopefully everyone saw the announcements for RDF 1.1 CR and JSON-LD PR. Congrats and thanks to everyone.
Guus Schreiber: Hopefully everyone saw the announcements for RDF 1.1 CR and JSON-LD PR. Congrats and thanks to everyone. ←
16:08:50 <gavinc> Thanks sandro for talking care of the publishing issues!
Gavin Carothers: Thanks sandro for talking care of the publishing issues! ←
16:09:02 <sandro> *nod* your welcome...
*nod* your welcome... ←
16:09:26 <sandro> guus: I'll be announcing to various listsa.
Guus Schreiber: I'll be announcing to various listsa. ←
16:09:30 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
16:10:11 <sandro> ACTION: guus to draft announcement emails for other lists
ACTION: guus to draft announcement emails for other lists ←
16:10:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-322 - Draft announcement emails for other lists [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-13].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-322 - Draft announcement emails for other lists [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-13]. ←
16:10:29 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:10:33 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
16:10:47 <sandro> sandro: might start with my w3.org homepage news, but more emphasis on changes for rdf folks
Sandro Hawke: might start with my w3.org homepage news, but more emphasis on changes for rdf folks ←
16:10:57 <Zakim> +zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2 ←
16:10:58 <sandro> guus: I already requested pub of rdf-json for tomorrow.
Guus Schreiber: I already requested pub of rdf-json for tomorrow. ←
16:11:30 <AndyS> q-
Andy Seaborne: q- ←
16:11:38 <sandro> topic: Antoinne's draft note on Dataset Semantics
16:12:15 <sandro> AZ: Goal is to provide a formal account of the various formal semantics that people have discussed in this group
Antoine Zimmermann: Goal is to provide a formal account of the various formal semantics that people have discussed in this group ←
16:12:44 <sandro> az: current state -- there are comments from Peter that require changes which I still have to do, but it would be good if other people look at the document.
Antoine Zimmermann: current state -- there are comments from Peter that require changes which I still have to do, but it would be good if other people look at the document. ←
16:12:54 <sandro> .. it would also be good to have advice on how to structure the document.
.. it would also be good to have advice on how to structure the document. ←
16:13:11 <pfps> I think that the document could be published as a first version as is - first versions are often missing bits, etc.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that the document could be published as a first version as is - first versions are often missing bits, etc. ←
16:13:12 <PatH> q+
Patrick Hayes: q+ ←
16:13:39 <Guus> ack PatH
Guus Schreiber: ack PatH ←
16:13:48 <sandro> PatH: Sorry for not commenting on this earlier.
Patrick Hayes: Sorry for not commenting on this earlier. ←
16:14:03 <sandro> .. I have some wording niggles, which I'll send in.
.. I have some wording niggles, which I'll send in. ←
16:14:14 <sandro> .. Is it thought desirable to publish such a note?
.. Is it thought desirable to publish such a note? ←
16:14:38 <sandro> .. At one point we had consensus that the smart thing to do was to let the world decide what the semantics are, to see what emerges.
.. At one point we had consensus that the smart thing to do was to let the world decide what the semantics are, to see what emerges. ←
16:14:50 <sandro> .. If patterns emerge, they could be provided with semantics
.. If patterns emerge, they could be provided with semantics ←
16:15:14 <sandro> .. What bothers me a little is that idea that this document will be understood as a kind of limit or constraint on datasets, which I think might not be a good thing to do.
.. What bothers me a little is that idea that this document will be understood as a kind of limit or constraint on datasets, which I think might not be a good thing to do. ←
16:15:24 <Guus> q+
Guus Schreiber: q+ ←
16:15:31 <sandro> .. It's a problem with something that perports to survey the possibilities
.. It's a problem with something that perports to survey the possibilities ←
16:15:46 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
16:16:02 <sandro> guus: We resolved as a group that we'd publish some alternative ideas, as a NOTE.
Guus Schreiber: We resolved as a group that we'd publish some alternative ideas, as a NOTE. ←
16:16:07 <sandro> q+
q+ ←
16:16:31 <sandro> guus: The intent, in discussions, was that we'd publish different alternative semantics.
Guus Schreiber: The intent, in discussions, was that we'd publish different alternative semantics. ←
16:16:44 <Guus> ack Guus
Guus Schreiber: ack Guus ←
16:16:50 <Guus> ack sandro
Guus Schreiber: ack sandro ←
16:17:10 <AZ> q+
Antoine Zimmermann: q+ ←
16:17:15 <pfps> +1 to make the situation explicit in the document abstract and introduction
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to make the situation explicit in the document abstract and introduction ←
16:17:19 <PatH> +1 sandro
Patrick Hayes: +1 sandro ←
16:17:20 <sandro> sandro: Maybe we can make sure the title, intro, abstract make clear this is a starting point for the discussion, not an ending point.
Sandro Hawke: Maybe we can make sure the title, intro, abstract make clear this is a starting point for the discussion, not an ending point. ←
16:17:38 <sandro> guus: Sandro, what about the conceptual material you wrote?
Guus Schreiber: Sandro, what about the conceptual material you wrote? ←
16:17:48 <AZ> q-
Antoine Zimmermann: q- ←
16:18:36 <sandro> sandro: Sorry, I haven't read it yet, so it's hard to tell
Sandro Hawke: Sorry, I haven't read it yet, so it's hard to tell ←
16:19:40 <sandro> az: In the beginning of what I wrote, I'm saying that in addition to any mathematical definition, it is also possible to interpret named graphs in reference to the architecture of the Web. That is the name of the graph has to be understood to be what you get when you dereference the URI. But I didn't get very far in this direciton.
Antoine Zimmermann: In the beginning of what I wrote, I'm saying that in addition to any mathematical definition, it is also possible to interpret named graphs in reference to the architecture of the Web. That is the name of the graph has to be understood to be what you get when you dereference the URI. But I didn't get very far in this direciton. ←
16:19:43 <sandro> guus: I think that would be useful, but it doesn't need to block publication.
Guus Schreiber: I think that would be useful, but it doesn't need to block publication. ←
16:19:52 <sandro> guus:We do need two WG reviewers.
Guus Schreiber: We do need two WG reviewers. ←
16:19:54 <PatH> I will review it in detail
Patrick Hayes: I will review it in detail ←
16:20:12 <PatH> It will take me a week or so.
Patrick Hayes: It will take me a week or so. ←
16:20:35 <sandro> guus: review by next Wednesday?
Guus Schreiber: review by next Wednesday? ←
16:20:38 <PatH> OK by next week
Patrick Hayes: OK by next week ←
16:20:46 <PatH> sure
Patrick Hayes: sure ←
16:21:00 <sandro> action: PatH to review AZ's dataset semantics document
ACTION: PatH to review AZ's dataset semantics document ←
16:21:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-323 - Review az's dataset semantics document [on Patrick Hayes - due 2013-11-13].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-323 - Review az's dataset semantics document [on Patrick Hayes - due 2013-11-13]. ←
16:21:07 <sandro> action: Guus to review AZ's dataset semantics document
ACTION: Guus to review AZ's dataset semantics document ←
16:21:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-324 - Review az's dataset semantics document [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-13].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-324 - Review az's dataset semantics document [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-13]. ←
16:21:17 <sandro> gavin: I'll try to do it as well.
Gavin Carothers: I'll try to do it as well. ←
16:21:26 <sandro> guus: I'll try to see if some of sandro's text would fit in as well.
Guus Schreiber: I'll try to see if some of sandro's text would fit in as well. ←
16:21:57 <sandro> guus: I suggest you wait for this first review, and see what parts you take on board. Plan to publish in 2 weeks (20 Nov)
Guus Schreiber: I suggest you wait for this first review, and see what parts you take on board. Plan to publish in 2 weeks (20 Nov) ←
16:22:47 <sandro> guus: then we'll republish when we go to REC
Guus Schreiber: then we'll republish when we go to REC ←
16:22:55 <PatH> can we take the fox and the cabbage over the river?
Patrick Hayes: can we take the fox and the cabbage over the river? ←
16:23:03 <sandro> :-)
:-) ←
16:23:32 <sandro> sandro: actually, the plan to go to REC is 20140204 (since we need to wait for patent exlusion period)
Sandro Hawke: actually, the plan to go to REC is 20140204 (since we need to wait for patent exlusion period) ←
16:23:56 <sandro> guus: The director was satisfied with how we handled the transition, by the way.
Guus Schreiber: The director was satisfied with how we handled the transition, by the way. ←
16:24:19 <sandro> guus: As long as we get in PR decision this calendar year, we should be okay. Either a formal short extension, or not.
Guus Schreiber: As long as we get in PR decision this calendar year, we should be okay. Either a formal short extension, or not. ←
16:25:21 <sandro> topic: Semantics Tests
16:25:32 <sandro> guus: Any responses, Peter?
Guus Schreiber: Any responses, Peter? ←
16:25:35 <sandro> pfps: No.
Peter Patel-Schneider: No. ←
16:25:42 <sandro> pfps: I don't understand the process.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't understand the process. ←
16:25:56 <sandro> pfps: I have a list of people to send the message to.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I have a list of people to send the message to. ←
16:26:18 <sandro> gkellogg?
gkellogg? ←
16:26:36 <sandro> pfps: We need help with the EARL stuff
Peter Patel-Schneider: We need help with the EARL stuff ←
16:26:43 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
16:26:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Guus, AndyS, yvesr, GavinC, AZ, David_Wood, Sandro, gkellogg, markus, Arnaud, PatH, EricP, zwu2, Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Guus, AndyS, yvesr, GavinC, AZ, David_Wood, Sandro, gkellogg, markus, Arnaud, PatH, EricP, zwu2, Souri ←
16:26:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, zwu2, PatH, markus, AZ, Guus, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, TallTed, gavinc, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, yvesr, sandro, trackbot, manu, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Souri, zwu2, PatH, markus, AZ, Guus, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, TallTed, gavinc, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, yvesr, sandro, trackbot, manu, ericP ←
16:26:47 <sandro> pfps: Michael Schneider said he'd run the tests.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Michael Schneider said he'd run the tests. ←
16:26:55 <sandro> pfps: a test harness would be great
Peter Patel-Schneider: a test harness would be great ←
16:27:09 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
16:27:14 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
16:27:14 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
16:27:15 <sandro> gkellogg: I've offered to help. We have a sample report there.
Gregg Kellogg: I've offered to help. We have a sample report there. ←
16:27:16 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:27:17 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
16:27:40 <sandro> gkellogg: in the Implementation Report
Gregg Kellogg: in the Implementation Report ←
16:27:46 <sandro> sandro: It's linked from the spec as "IMplementation Report"
Sandro Hawke: It's linked from the spec as "IMplementation Report" ←
16:27:47 <AndyS> e.g. http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Test_Suite#Turtle_Tests
Andy Seaborne: e.g. http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Test_Suite#Turtle_Tests ←
16:28:03 <gavinc> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/index.html
Gavin Carothers: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/index.html ←
16:28:07 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-mt/
http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-mt/ ←
16:28:18 <gavinc> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html
Gavin Carothers: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html ←
16:28:23 <sandro> scroll down to Implementation report:
scroll down to Implementation report: ←
16:28:23 <sandro> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html ←
16:28:42 <sandro> pfps: instructions, instructions, instructions
Peter Patel-Schneider: instructions, instructions, instructions ←
16:29:00 <sandro> gkellogg: The report is automatically generated based on the collected results -- of which we don't have any yet.
Gregg Kellogg: The report is automatically generated based on the collected results -- of which we don't have any yet. ←
16:29:08 <sandro> gkellogg: It uses the manifest to create this document.
Gregg Kellogg: It uses the manifest to create this document. ←
16:29:18 <sandro> gkellogg:We can add more instruction if you want
Gregg Kellogg: We can add more instruction if you want ←
16:29:31 <sandro> pfps: I'll take a look
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'll take a look ←
16:30:12 <sandro> gkellogg: YOu can change the markdown, or just mail it to me.
Gregg Kellogg: YOu can change the markdown, or just mail it to me. ←
16:30:22 <ericP> q+ to discuss outstanding disputes over Turtle tests and how the apply to the other tests
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to discuss outstanding disputes over Turtle tests and how the apply to the other tests ←
16:30:42 <sandro> pfps: Is there a model earl file?
Peter Patel-Schneider: Is there a model earl file? ←
16:30:51 <sandro> gkellogg: Look in the nquads or trig directories.
Gregg Kellogg: Look in the nquads or trig directories. ←
16:32:16 <gkellogg> http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Schema/
Gregg Kellogg: http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Schema/ ←
16:33:00 <sandro> gkellogg: we might be having the HTTPS problem here, breaking respec
Gregg Kellogg: we might be having the HTTPS problem here, breaking respec ←
16:33:39 <sandro> pfps: I'll give it a try.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'll give it a try. ←
16:33:57 <sandro> gkellogg: I don't know what it would actually take to run a semantics test.
Gregg Kellogg: I don't know what it would actually take to run a semantics test. ←
16:34:44 <gavinc> AC messaged as well
Gavin Carothers: AC messaged as well ←
16:35:15 <sandro> sandro: Basically at this point, signal-boost and signal-refine the announcements made yesterday on w3.org
Sandro Hawke: Basically at this point, signal-boost and signal-refine the announcements made yesterday on w3.org ←
16:35:47 <sandro> pfps: I have a list of folks to email
Peter Patel-Schneider: I have a list of folks to email ←
16:36:06 <sandro> pfps: guus will produce a general email, and I'll forward that on with a little intro
Peter Patel-Schneider: guus will produce a general email, and I'll forward that on with a little intro ←
16:36:07 <sandro> +1
+1 ←
16:36:25 <sandro> pfps: ... tailored to semantics implementators.
Peter Patel-Schneider: ... tailored to semantics implementators. ←
16:36:57 <sandro> pfps: OWL Reasoners will have a lot of trouble with this, since it's mostly not OWL DL.
Peter Patel-Schneider: OWL Reasoners will have a lot of trouble with this, since it's mostly not OWL DL. ←
16:37:16 <sandro> pfps: Michael Schneider at least should be able to run these
Peter Patel-Schneider: Michael Schneider at least should be able to run these ←
16:37:34 <sandro> pfps: We should decide about AZ's tests. They're great, but perverse.
Peter Patel-Schneider: We should decide about AZ's tests. They're great, but perverse. ←
16:38:27 <sandro> sandro: How about including them as "Proposed" tests and see how folks do on them.
Sandro Hawke: How about including them as "Proposed" tests and see how folks do on them. ←
16:38:38 <sandro> pfps: Sounds good, I'll mention that in the documentation.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Sounds good, I'll mention that in the documentation. ←
16:38:58 <sandro> pfps: Hopefully the setup will work if someone submits an extra test.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Hopefully the setup will work if someone submits an extra test. ←
16:39:04 <sandro> pfps: Okay, we'll try this.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Okay, we'll try this. ←
16:39:50 <sandro> guus: I'd like to include in the CFI one paragraph about how to submit tests.
Guus Schreiber: I'd like to include in the CFI one paragraph about how to submit tests. ←
16:40:07 <sandro> sandro: in the stuff I wrote, I said the Impl. Rep. has the instructions.
Sandro Hawke: in the stuff I wrote, I said the Impl. Rep. has the instructions. ←
16:40:14 <sandro> guus: I leave that up to Gregg.
Guus Schreiber: I leave that up to Gregg. ←
16:40:25 <sandro> gkellogg: This info has been adequate for folks so far.
Gregg Kellogg: This info has been adequate for folks so far. ←
16:41:07 <sandro> gkellogg: I just don't know if there's something about semantics that needs to be different
Gregg Kellogg: I just don't know if there's something about semantics that needs to be different ←
16:41:16 <sandro> sandro: peter said he's review the instructions
Sandro Hawke: peter said he's review the instructions ←
16:41:22 <sandro> peter: I'll do that today
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'll do that today ←
16:41:28 <sandro> guus: so I can get things out by Friday
Guus Schreiber: so I can get things out by Friday ←
16:41:37 <sandro> guus: Thanks!
Guus Schreiber: Thanks! ←
16:41:56 <sandro> gkellogg: Often the impl reps need some back and forth.
Gregg Kellogg: Often the impl reps need some back and forth. ←
16:42:02 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/ has LICENSE README TESTS.{tar.gz,zip} manifest.ttl
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/ has LICENSE README TESTS.{tar.gz,zip} manifest.ttl ←
16:42:03 <sandro> topic: Turtle Tests
16:42:38 <sandro> ericP: I suggest copying this structure
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I suggest copying this structure ←
16:43:03 <sandro> ericP: There are some controvercial bits, like canonical bnodes and triple ordering
Eric Prud'hommeaux: There are some controvercial bits, like canonical bnodes and triple ordering ←
16:43:40 <sandro> .. Also a commenter asked us to annotate any tests that are outside the basic multilingual plane (> FFFD) but I don't think you'll have any of those.
.. Also a commenter asked us to annotate any tests that are outside the basic multilingual plane (> FFFD) but I don't think you'll have any of those. ←
16:43:54 <sandro> s/topic:/subtopic:/
16:44:12 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
16:44:31 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Issues Turtle CR comments
Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Issues Turtle CR comments ←
16:44:48 <Guus> ack ericP
Guus Schreiber: ack ericP ←
16:44:48 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to discuss outstanding disputes over Turtle tests and how the apply to the other tests
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to discuss outstanding disputes over Turtle tests and how the apply to the other tests ←
16:44:57 <Guus> ack gkellogg
Guus Schreiber: ack gkellogg ←
16:45:17 <sandro> gkellogg: test issues. N-Quads calls for running two manifests. Maybe we should copy n-triples tests into n-quads.
Gregg Kellogg: test issues. N-Quads calls for running two manifests. Maybe we should copy n-triples tests into n-quads. ←
16:45:49 <sandro> gavinc: Yes, please copy them.
Gavin Carothers: Yes, please copy them. ←
16:45:58 <sandro> gkellogg: Okay, will do.
Gregg Kellogg: Okay, will do. ←
16:46:18 <sandro> gavinc: Do we have much coverage for N-Triples things that have changed?
Gavin Carothers: Do we have much coverage for N-Triples things that have changed? ←
16:46:45 <sandro> gkellogg: I don't know. I tried to be thorough, but I may have missed areas.
Gregg Kellogg: I don't know. I tried to be thorough, but I may have missed areas. ←
16:47:27 <sandro> gkellogg: I think we test the various escape sequences. THere may be whitespace variations we dont have coverage on.
Gregg Kellogg: I think we test the various escape sequences. THere may be whitespace variations we dont have coverage on. ←
16:47:45 <sandro> ericP: I did a coverage report on Turtle which might be helpful for Trig.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I did a coverage report on Turtle which might be helpful for Trig. ←
16:47:57 <AndyS> Sorry - sound probs
Andy Seaborne: Sorry - sound probs ←
16:47:58 <sandro> gavinc: AndyS, who did you feel about the coverage?
Gavin Carothers: AndyS, how did you feel about the coverage? ←
16:48:04 <sandro> s/who/how/
16:48:13 <AndyS> I don't know - I just run the tests - haven't looked in a long time :-)
Andy Seaborne: I don't know - I just run the tests - haven't looked in a long time :-) ←
16:48:49 <sandro> markus: In your review of Concepts, you asked if we should update our pointing to RDF Test Cases.
Markus Lanthaler: In your review of Concepts, you asked if we should update our pointing to RDF Test Cases. ←
16:49:36 <sandro> guus: Yeah, hard question. Maybe put it in as a point to fix?
Guus Schreiber: Yeah, hard question. Maybe put it in as a point to fix? ←
16:49:49 <sandro> gkellogg: Didn't the RDF Test Cases turn into the rdf11-mt tests?
Gregg Kellogg: Didn't the RDF Test Cases turn into the rdf11-mt tests? ←
16:49:58 <sandro> guus: True.
Guus Schreiber: True. ←
16:50:43 <sandro> markus: We don't have an index for the test suites.
Markus Lanthaler: We don't have an index for the test suites. ←
16:50:50 <sandro> guus: Let's make one, and then point to it.
Guus Schreiber: Let's make one, and then point to it. ←
16:51:38 <sandro> Things like http://www.w3.org/2013/rdf-mt-tests/
Things like http://www.w3.org/2013/rdf-mt-tests/ ←
16:51:49 <sandro> gkellogg: EARL URLs issue...
Gregg Kellogg: EARL URLs issue... ←
16:53:07 <sandro> gkellogg: We change the URLs when we move the test suite
Gregg Kellogg: We change the URLs when we move the test suite ←
16:53:38 <sandro> gavinc: Can we just use @base at the top of the manfiest?
Gavin Carothers: Can we just use @base at the top of the manfiest? ←
16:53:57 <AndyS> Does not work - need to fetch the test by GET.
Andy Seaborne: Does not work - need to fetch the test by GET. ←
16:54:25 <sandro> ericP: In the turtle tests, we felt guilty moving it, but no one complained.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: In the turtle tests, we felt guilty moving it, but no one complained. ←
16:54:42 <sandro> gkellogg: It'd be good to people a heads up.
Gregg Kellogg: It'd be good to people a heads up. ←
16:55:08 <gavinc> yay sed!
Gavin Carothers: yay sed! ←
16:55:12 <gavinc> sed can save us ;)
Gavin Carothers: sed can save us ;) ←
16:55:22 <sandro> sandro: Don't want to throw away results
Sandro Hawke: Don't want to throw away results ←
16:56:16 <sandro> markus: proxy?
Markus Lanthaler: proxy? ←
16:56:18 <gavinc> Proxying HTTPS to HTTP is a no no ;)
Gavin Carothers: Proxying HTTPS to HTTP is a no no ;) ←
16:56:21 <sandro> sandro: technical problems with that
Sandro Hawke: technical problems with that ←
16:57:03 <sandro> eric: n-triples & turtle overlap ? trig and turtle overlap?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: n-triples & turtle overlap ? trig and turtle overlap? ←
16:57:23 <AndyS> Too late to get too clever.
Andy Seaborne: Too late to get too clever. ←
16:57:32 <sandro> gavinc: We could make the Trig test suite include the turtle tests and n-triples tests.
Gavin Carothers: We could make the Trig test suite include the turtle tests and n-triples tests. ←
16:57:44 <AndyS> We need to give people time to execute the tests and report.
Andy Seaborne: We need to give people time to execute the tests and report. ←
16:58:03 <sandro> gkellogg: We might have done that for Turtle.
Gregg Kellogg: We might have done that for Turtle. ←
16:58:20 <sandro> guus: Make sure it's done by the end of the week, if it's being done.
Guus Schreiber: Make sure it's done by the end of the week, if it's being done. ←
16:58:46 <sandro> action: gkellogg to make sure sublanguage test suites include other language tests
ACTION: gkellogg to make sure sublanguage test suites include other language tests ←
16:58:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-325 - Make sure sublanguage test suites include other language tests [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2013-11-13].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-325 - Make sure sublanguage test suites include other language tests [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2013-11-13]. ←
16:59:12 <sandro> topic: Turtle CR Comments
16:59:18 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Issues Turtle CR
Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Issues Turtle CR ←
16:59:24 <AndyS> GT
Andy Seaborne: GT ←
16:59:33 <AndyS> GTG - bye
Andy Seaborne: GTG - bye ←
17:00:08 <sandro> ericP: (summarizes ...)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: (summarizes ...) ←
17:02:43 <sandro> guus: I made a page for CR comments, and moved our deferred comments there.
Guus Schreiber: I made a page for CR comments, and moved our deferred comments there. ←
17:03:32 <sandro> gavinc: Comment on N-Triples.... is that a new comment on CR?
Gavin Carothers: Comment on N-Triples.... is that a new comment on CR? ←
17:03:41 <sandro> eric: Yes?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Yes? ←
17:04:20 <sandro> gavinc: (Please dont do UTF8)
Gavin Carothers: (Please dont do UTF8) ←
17:04:21 <Guus> CR comments page for the 5 RDF 1.1 docs: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/CR_comments_Concepts_Semantics_TriG_N-Triples_N-Quads
Guus Schreiber: CR comments page for the 5 RDF 1.1 docs: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/CR_comments_Concepts_Semantics_TriG_N-Triples_N-Quads ←
17:05:54 <Arnaud> I need to drop off
Arnaud Le Hors: I need to drop off ←
17:05:59 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
17:06:32 <gavinc> tah dah http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/CR_Comments
Gavin Carothers: tah dah http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/CR_Comments ←
17:07:15 <sandro> topic: RDFS
17:07:40 <sandro> guus: The plan is to make RDF Schema be an Edited Recommendation, so no technical content changes.
Guus Schreiber: The plan is to make RDF Schema be an Edited Recommendation, so no technical content changes. ←
17:07:56 <sandro> .. yesterday I did a respec version
.. yesterday I did a respec version ←
17:09:01 <sandro> .. not sure about the diff
.. not sure about the diff ←
17:09:02 <gavinc> Best bet that I've tried in the past was produce HTML from both, and then use pandoc to produce Markdown from both, and then compare those ;)
Gavin Carothers: Best bet that I've tried in the past was produce HTML from both, and then use pandoc to produce Markdown from both, and then compare those ;) ←
17:09:24 <sandro> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-schema/index.html
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-schema/index.html ←
17:09:46 <sandro> eric: Do we want Turtle to go to PR early?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Do we want Turtle to go to PR early? ←
17:09:49 <sandro> guus: No.
Guus Schreiber: No. ←
17:10:33 <sandro> guus: Should we add the new datatypes in the RDF namespace?
Guus Schreiber: Should we add the new datatypes in the RDF namespace? ←
17:10:46 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:10:47 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
17:10:50 <sandro> ... rdf:langString and rdf:HTML
... rdf:langString and rdf:HTML ←
17:11:07 <sandro> sandro: I think that's fine since it's just including changes made elsewhere.
Sandro Hawke: I think that's fine since it's just including changes made elsewhere. ←
17:11:25 <sandro> ted: I have a user who wants language tag and datatype
Ted Thibodeau: I have a user who says Jena is producing "string"@lang^^xsd:string which isn't clearly forbidden in current writing ←
17:11:33 <sandro> sandro: not allowed to do that in xml schema
Sandro Hawke: not allowed to do that in xml schema ←
17:11:46 <sandro> guus: Should we make plainLiteral as being obsolete?
Guus Schreiber: Should we make plainLiteral as being obsolete? ←
17:11:57 <sandro> guus: editors?
Guus Schreiber: editors? ←
17:12:28 <sandro> sandro: No, it can't be obsolete because it's used by OWL 2
Sandro Hawke: No, it can't be obsolete because it's used by OWL 2 ←
17:12:56 <sandro> sandro: and can't even be 'deprecated' if other stuff we don't think people should use can't be deprecated.
Sandro Hawke: and can't even be 'deprecated' if other stuff we don't think people should use can't be deprecated. ←
17:13:03 <sandro> ADJOURN
ADJOURN ←
17:13:03 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
17:13:05 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
17:13:09 <Zakim> -David_Wood
Zakim IRC Bot: -David_Wood ←
17:13:10 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
17:13:10 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
17:13:11 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
17:13:11 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
17:13:13 <Zakim> -GavinC
Zakim IRC Bot: -GavinC ←
17:13:13 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
17:13:14 <Zakim> -markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -markus ←
17:13:15 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
17:13:16 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
17:13:27 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting ←
17:13:27 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
17:13:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pfps, Guus, AndyS, yvesr, GavinC, AZ, David_Wood, Sandro, gkellogg, markus, Arnaud, PatH, EricP, zwu2, Souri, TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pfps, Guus, AndyS, yvesr, GavinC, AZ, David_Wood, Sandro, gkellogg, markus, Arnaud, PatH, EricP, zwu2, Souri, TallTed ←
17:13:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
17:13:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot ←
17:13:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-actions.rdf : ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus to write up scribe schedule for remaining meetings [1]
ACTION: guus to write up scribe schedule for remaining meetings [1] ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-05-31
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-05-31 ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus to draft announcement emails for other lists [2]
ACTION: guus to draft announcement emails for other lists [2] ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-10-11
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-10-11 ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH to review AZ's dataset semantics document [3]
ACTION: PatH to review AZ's dataset semantics document [3] ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-21-00
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-21-00 ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to review AZ's dataset semantics document [4]
ACTION: Guus to review AZ's dataset semantics document [4] ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-21-07
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-21-07 ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gkellogg to make sure sublanguage test suites include other language tests [5]
ACTION: gkellogg to make sure sublanguage test suites include other language tests [5] ←
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-58-46
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/06-rdf-wg-irc#T16-58-46 ←
17:13:44 <TallTed> s/who wants language tag and datatype/who says Jena is producing "string"@lang^^xsd:string which isn't clearly forbidden in current writing/
Formatted by CommonScribe