None.
15:00:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/24-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/24-rdf-wg-irc ←
15:00:34 <davidwood> Zakim, this will be RDF
David Wood: Zakim, this will be RDF ←
15:00:34 <Zakim> ok, davidwood, I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, davidwood, I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM already started ←
15:00:42 <davidwood> chair: David Wood
15:00:47 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?
David Wood: Zakim, who is here? ←
15:00:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bhyland ←
15:00:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, gkellogg, PatH, gavinc, davidwood, TallTed, AndyS, trackbot, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP, mischat
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, gkellogg, PatH, gavinc, davidwood, TallTed, AndyS, trackbot, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP, mischat ←
15:00:54 <davidwood> Zakim, bhyland is me
David Wood: Zakim, bhyland is me ←
15:00:55 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it ←
15:00:58 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa ←
15:01:27 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
15:01:34 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
15:01:36 <gkellogg> zakam, I a ??P9
Gregg Kellogg: zakam, I a ??P9 ←
15:01:49 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P9
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P9 ←
15:01:49 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:02:03 <AndyS> Agenda request -- process -- Status of the Turtle test suite - ready to announce? Actions for that?
Andy Seaborne: Agenda request -- process -- Status of the Turtle test suite - ready to announce? Actions for that? ←
15:02:15 <davidwood> ack
David Wood: ack ←
15:02:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:02:47 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
15:02:47 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:03:05 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:03:50 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
15:04:26 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P15 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P15 is me ←
15:04:26 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:04:32 <AndyS> How many telecons until the end of the WG? 14 and whatever in Dec?
Andy Seaborne: How many telecons until the end of the WG? 14 and whatever in Dec? ←
15:04:53 <sandro> counting down the minutes, Andy? :-)
Sandro Hawke: counting down the minutes, Andy? :-) ←
15:05:25 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:05:37 <sandro> scribe: sandro
(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)
15:06:00 <Zakim> + +1.707.874.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.874.aabb ←
15:06:01 <AndyS> sandro - you raised the issue of dealing with comments and timescale.
Andy Seaborne: sandro - you raised the issue of dealing with comments and timescale. ←
15:06:23 <sandro> indeed.
indeed. ←
15:06:38 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
15:06:45 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 July telecon:
David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 July telecon: ←
15:06:45 <davidwood>
15:06:45 <davidwood> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-07-10
David Wood: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-07-10 ←
15:07:08 <davidwood> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 July telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-07-10
David Wood: RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 July telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-07-10 ←
15:07:49 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:08:12 <gavinc> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-07-10#NTriples_and_NQuads has a resolution, but was not recorded
Gavin Carothers: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-07-10#NTriples_and_NQuads has a resolution, but was not recorded ←
15:08:24 <gavinc> Original PROPOSED: The WG will pursue N-Triples/N-Quads as a Rec instead of a Note
Gavin Carothers: Original PROPOSED: The WG will pursue N-Triples/N-Quads as a Rec instead of a Note ←
15:08:49 <davidwood> Sandro is fixing. Good catch, Gavin.
David Wood: Sandro is fixing. Good catch, Gavin. ←
15:09:06 <davidwood> Sandro has repaired the minutes
David Wood: Sandro has repaired the minutes ←
15:09:11 <davidwood> Review of action items
David Wood: Review of action items ←
15:09:11 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview ←
15:09:11 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open ←
15:09:18 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:09:24 <sandro> okay, minutes from last week fixed to include RESOLTION on N-Quads and N_triplles being Rec-Track.
okay, minutes from last week fixed to include RESOLTION on N-Quads and N_triplles being Rec-Track. ←
15:09:33 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:09:33 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
15:09:35 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:09:35 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
15:09:48 <sandro> action-256?
15:09:48 <trackbot> ACTION-256 -- Gavin Carothers to link TriG to new text in RDF Concepts -- due 2013-05-01 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-256 -- Gavin Carothers to link TriG to new text in RDF Concepts -- due 2013-05-01 -- OPEN ←
15:09:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/256
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/256 ←
15:09:49 <davidwood> ACTION-256?
15:09:49 <trackbot> ACTION-256 -- Gavin Carothers to link TriG to new text in RDF Concepts -- due 2013-05-01 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-256 -- Gavin Carothers to link TriG to new text in RDF Concepts -- due 2013-05-01 -- OPEN ←
15:09:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/256
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/256 ←
15:09:56 <sandro> close ACTION-256
close ACTION-256 ←
15:09:56 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-256 Link TriG to new text in RDF Concepts.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-256 Link TriG to new text in RDF Concepts. ←
15:10:10 <sandro> issue-23?
15:10:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-23 -- Does going from single-graph to multi-graph require new format and new media types? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-23 -- Does going from single-graph to multi-graph require new format and new media types? -- open ←
15:10:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/23
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/23 ←
15:10:38 <davidwood> ACTION-270?
15:10:38 <trackbot> ACTION-270 -- Gavin Carothers to write resolution text for issue-23 -- due 2013-06-12 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-270 -- Gavin Carothers to write resolution text for ISSUE-23 -- due 2013-06-12 -- OPEN ←
15:10:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/270
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/270 ←
15:10:51 <sandro> davidwood: Gavin, how would you like to proceed on this?
David Wood: Gavin, how would you like to proceed on this? ←
15:11:16 <sandro> gavin: I'm happy to keep writing this until it doesn't change any more.
Gavin Carothers: I'm happy to keep writing this until it doesn't change any more. ←
15:11:29 <AndyS> ptr?
Andy Seaborne: ptr? ←
15:11:47 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
15:12:00 <sandro> gavin: Inside the TriG spec
Gavin Carothers: Inside the TriG spec ←
15:12:09 <sandro> gavin: taking it out of Concepts
Gavin Carothers: taking it out of Concepts ←
15:12:28 <sandro> gavin: never actually in Concepts, but might have gone there.
Gavin Carothers: never actually in Concepts, but might have gone there. ←
15:13:03 <sandro> action-280?
15:13:03 <trackbot> ACTION-280 -- Gavin Carothers to contact rdf-wg-comments, semantic-web and submitters of test results at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Implementations -- due 2013-07-10 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-280 -- Gavin Carothers to contact rdf-wg-comments, semantic-web and submitters of test results at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Implementations -- due 2013-07-10 -- OPEN ←
15:13:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/280
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/280 ←
15:13:19 <sandro> gavin: Not done yet.
Gavin Carothers: Not done yet. ←
15:13:44 <sandro> andy: Do we have a resolution saying "This is the test suite:
Andy Seaborne: Do we have a resolution saying "This is the test suite: ←
15:14:00 <sandro> gkellogg: We need to send something to implementors
Gregg Kellogg: We need to send something to implementors ←
15:14:23 <sandro> AndyS: Yes, but we need to be clear what's stable and we're telling them.
Andy Seaborne: Yes, but we need to be clear what's stable and we're telling them. ←
15:14:29 <sandro> davidwood: next telecon is Aug 7
David Wood: next telecon is Aug 7 ←
15:14:46 <gavinc> ARGH, can someone update http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ to NOT say it's the test suite?
Gavin Carothers: ARGH, can someone update http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ to NOT say it's the test suite? ←
15:15:26 <sandro> gavin, can you email me new text for that page, and I'll change it.
gavin, can you email me new text for that page, and I'll change it. ←
15:15:36 <davidwood> Topic: Semantics and Concepts
15:15:39 <davidwood> Published as LC: http://www.w3.org/News/2013#entry-9896
David Wood: Published as LC: http://www.w3.org/News/2013#entry-9896 ←
15:15:51 <sandro> davidwood: Both documents published as Last Call!!!
David Wood: Both documents published as Last Call!!! ←
15:15:55 <sandro> +1
+1 ←
15:15:56 <sandro> :-)
:-) ←
15:16:04 <gavinc> ACTION Gavin to provide sandro text for http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ to NOT say it's the test suite
Gavin Carothers: ACTION Gavin to provide sandro text for http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ to NOT say it's the test suite ←
15:16:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-281 - Provide sandro text for http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ to NOT say it's the test suite [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-07-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-281 - Provide sandro text for http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ to NOT say it's the test suite [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-07-31]. ←
15:16:19 <sandro> davidwood: Call for Exclusions went out
David Wood: Call for Exclusions went out ←
15:16:50 <sandro> PatH: Do I need to worry about that?
Patrick Hayes: Do I need to worry about that? ←
15:17:27 <sandro> sandro: Only if you have patents on technologies essential for implementing these specs.
Sandro Hawke: Only if you have patents on technologies essential for implementing these specs. ←
15:17:33 <davidwood> Topic: TriG / N-Triples / N-Quads
15:18:00 <sandro> yvesr: yes, people are.
Yves Raimond: yes, people are. ←
15:18:58 <davidwood> Topic: Status of the Turtle test suite
15:19:12 <davidwood> AndyS: ready to announce? Actions for that?
Andy Seaborne: ready to announce? Actions for that? [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ] ←
15:19:41 <sandro> AndyS: I'd expected to see an announcement
Andy Seaborne: I'd expected to see an announcement ←
15:20:11 <sandro> gkellogg: People are discovering it on their own.
Gregg Kellogg: People are discovering it on their own. ←
15:20:36 <sandro> gavinc: I think the action is on me is to announce
Gavin Carothers: I think the action is on me is to announce ←
15:20:47 <sandro> gavinc: I have an action to announce this. I haven't done it yet.
Gavin Carothers: I have an action to announce this. I haven't done it yet. ←
15:20:53 <sandro> action-280?
15:20:54 <trackbot> ACTION-280 -- Gavin Carothers to contact rdf-wg-comments, semantic-web and submitters of test results at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Implementations -- due 2013-07-10 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-280 -- Gavin Carothers to contact rdf-wg-comments, semantic-web and submitters of test results at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Implementations -- due 2013-07-10 -- OPEN ←
15:20:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/280
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/280 ←
15:21:08 <sandro> davidwood: Happy Andy?
David Wood: Happy Andy? ←
15:21:19 <sandro> AndyS: I'd have expected it to come from Chairs.
Andy Seaborne: I'd have expected it to come from Chairs. ←
15:21:26 <sandro> davidwood: I'd prefer Gavin do it, please.
David Wood: I'd prefer Gavin do it, please. ←
15:21:40 <sandro> gavinc: I'll do it this week.
Gavin Carothers: I'll do it this week. ←
15:22:27 <sandro> gkellogg: Re comments on public-rdf-comments. Okay for me to ack comments?
Gregg Kellogg: Re comments on public-rdf-comments. Okay for me to ack comments? ←
15:22:32 <sandro> sandro: How about 1 reply?
Sandro Hawke: How about 1 reply? ←
15:22:34 <AndyS> surely editors can reply for the routine
Andy Seaborne: surely editors can reply for the routine ←
15:22:44 <sandro> davidwood: Lets say: don't get into a long thread without talking to us.
David Wood: Lets say: don't get into a long thread without talking to us. ←
15:22:58 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:23:01 <sandro> davidwood: everyone cool with that?
David Wood: everyone cool with that? ←
15:23:02 <sandro> +1
+1 ←
15:23:17 <PatH> The editors decide.
Patrick Hayes: The editors decide. ←
15:23:29 <PatH> sorry, the chairs decide
Patrick Hayes: sorry, the chairs decide ←
15:23:45 <sandro> gavin: jeremy's thread is in danger of this
Gavin Carothers: jeremy's thread is in danger of this ←
15:24:03 <sandro> sandro: I'm trying to keep Jeremy on www-archive
Sandro Hawke: I'm trying to keep Jeremy on www-archive ←
15:24:24 <sandro> davidwood: I propose we have a chairs to talk about Jeremy's thread soon.
David Wood: I propose we have a chairs to talk about Jeremy's thread soon. ←
15:25:14 <sandro> sandro: maybe after this call we can talk about it?
Sandro Hawke: maybe after this call we can talk about it? ←
15:25:26 <sandro> AndyS: maybe Sandro summarize to WG list?
Andy Seaborne: maybe Sandro summarize to WG list? ←
15:25:34 <sandro> sandro: Good idea, but I don't understand it yet.
Sandro Hawke: Good idea, but I don't understand it yet. ←
15:26:00 <sandro> sandro: I'll endeavor to do so.
Sandro Hawke: I'll endeavor to do so. ←
15:26:25 <AndyS> topic: TriG / N-Triples / N-Quads
15:26:34 <sandro> davidwood: Status of Turtle test suite: Gavin will announce shortly.
David Wood: Status of Turtle test suite: Gavin will announce shortly. ←
15:26:47 <davidwood> N-Quads as subset of TriG?
David Wood: N-Quads as subset of TriG? ←
15:26:47 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Jul/0171.html
David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Jul/0171.html ←
15:26:47 <sandro> davidwood: Some proposals
David Wood: Some proposals ←
15:27:29 <gkellogg> sandro: it would be better if the test format (N-Quads) be a subset of the full language (TriG)
Sandro Hawke: it would be better if the test format (N-Quads) be a subset of the full language (TriG) [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:27:38 <sandro> GRAPH <g> { s p o }
GRAPH <g> { s p o } ←
15:27:47 <gavinc> -1 to naming a line oriented "TriG" N-Quads
Gavin Carothers: -1 to naming a line oriented "TriG" N-Quads ←
15:28:01 <gkellogg> … shouldn't be called N-Quads, thought
Gregg Kellogg: … shouldn't be called N-Quads, though ←
15:28:09 <gkellogg> s/thought/though/
15:28:17 <gkellogg> andys: different content type?
Andy Seaborne: different content type? [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:28:37 <gkellogg> sandro: N-Triples has a different type than Turtle, so this should too.
Sandro Hawke: N-Triples has a different type than Turtle, so this should too. [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:28:54 <gkellogg> andys: each profile is a different content-type?
Andy Seaborne: each profile is a different content-type? [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:29:10 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
15:29:16 <gkellogg> … "profile" indicates there's some difference.
Gregg Kellogg: … "profile" indicates there's some difference. ←
15:29:17 <markus> zakim, ??P6 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P6 is me ←
15:29:17 <Zakim> +markus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it ←
15:29:51 <gkellogg> sandro: sub-types of other content types haven't worked so well.
Sandro Hawke: sub-types of other content types haven't worked so well. [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:30:06 <gkellogg> … However, the different types could be mapped to the same parser.
Gregg Kellogg: … However, the different types could be mapped to the same parser. ←
15:30:23 <gkellogg> ericp: people will commonly use the same parser when they can.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: people will commonly use the same parser when they can. [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:30:37 <PatH> +q
Patrick Hayes: +q ←
15:30:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:31:02 <gkellogg> … populating the media-type space, and mapping them to parsers are separate issues.
Gregg Kellogg: … populating the media-type space, and mapping them to parsers are separate issues. ←
15:31:17 <gkellogg> andys: the other thing would be to use the same content-type for all.
Andy Seaborne: the other thing would be to use the same content-type for all. [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:31:18 <yvesr> Zakim: [IPcaller] is me
15:31:27 <sandro> andy: Why have different media type for sublanguages?
Andy Seaborne: Why have different media type for sublanguages? ←
15:31:31 <yvesr> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:31:31 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:31:39 <gkellogg> ericp: the advantage is that there are subsets that can be parsed separately (e.g. Awk).
Eric Prud'hommeaux: the advantage is that there are subsets that can be parsed separately (e.g. Awk). [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:31:49 <sandro> AndyS: Is this N-Quads.
Andy Seaborne: Is this N-Quads. ←
15:32:21 <sandro> AndyS: dbpedia publishes n-quads. it's out there in use.
Andy Seaborne: dbpedia publishes n-quads. it's out there in use. ←
15:32:38 <sandro> ericP: yes, but it's a small number of producers and would be an easy change.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yes, but it's a small number of producers and would be an easy change. ←
15:32:55 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:32:55 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
15:32:56 <sandro> AndyS: data.gov.uk does, too
Andy Seaborne: data.gov.uk does, too ←
15:33:19 <sandro> eric: Now you're talking not about the naming, but about compatibilty with N-Quads.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Now you're talking not about the naming, but about compatibilty with N-Quads. ←
15:33:35 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
15:34:08 <sandro> AndyS: What problem is being solved?
Andy Seaborne: What problem is being solved? ←
15:34:14 <sandro> Sandro: too many languages
Sandro Hawke: too many languages ←
15:34:45 <sandro> eric: 2 lines of code to map to a parser, or several hundred lines to write an n-quads parser
Eric Prud'hommeaux: 2 lines of code to map to a parser, or several hundred lines to write an n-quads parser ←
15:34:59 <sandro> AndyS: I think it's 20 lines, since the tokenizer is the same.
Andy Seaborne: I think it's 20 lines, since the tokenizer is the same. ←
15:35:35 <gkellogg> sandro: in my mind, it's about brains, not machines. I don't want people to have to keep things separate in their heads, when things are so close together.
Sandro Hawke: in my mind, it's about brains, not machines. I don't want people to have to keep things separate in their heads, when things are so close together. [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:35:48 <sandro> q?
q? ←
15:35:49 <gkellogg> … People can understand line-mode formats differently.
Gregg Kellogg: … People can understand line-mode formats differently. ←
15:35:50 <davidwood> ack PatH
David Wood: ack PatH ←
15:37:03 <sandro> I don't think it helps the community for us to standardize on lots of things.
I don't think it helps the community for us to standardize on lots of things. ←
15:37:35 <gavinc> THERE isn't a difference: "A N-Quad document defines an RDF dataset composed of RDF graphs composed of a set of RDF triples. The statement production produces a triple defined by the terms constructed for subject, predicate and object. This RDF triple is added to the graph labeled by the production graphLabel, if no graphLabel is present the triple is added to the RDF datasets default graph."
Gavin Carothers: THERE isn't a difference: "A N-Quad document defines an RDF dataset composed of RDF graphs composed of a set of RDF triples. The statement production produces a triple defined by the terms constructed for subject, predicate and object. This RDF triple is added to the graph labeled by the production graphLabel, if no graphLabel is present the triple is added to the RDF datasets default graph." ←
15:38:24 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:38:24 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
15:38:52 <AndyS> nquads is not a test format. It's a DB dump format.
Andy Seaborne: nquads is not a test format. It's a DB dump format. ←
15:39:32 <gavinc> "Some RDF dataset implementations do not track empty named graphs. Applications can avoid interoperability issues by not ascribing importance to the presence or absence of empty named graphs."
Gavin Carothers: "Some RDF dataset implementations do not track empty named graphs. Applications can avoid interoperability issues by not ascribing importance to the presence or absence of empty named graphs." ←
15:40:56 <davidwood> ack gkellogg
David Wood: ack gkellogg ←
15:41:28 <sandro> gkellogg: I find some value to having different media types for subsets. My simpler parsers are an order of magnitude faster.
Gregg Kellogg: I find some value to having different media types for subsets. My simpler parsers are an order of magnitude faster. ←
15:41:57 <sandro> gkellogg: also freebase parser is much faster, with no media type
Gregg Kellogg: also freebase parser is much faster, with no media type ←
15:42:33 <sandro> gkellogg: Should RDFa-Lite be a different format. We decided it should NOT be. There is no such thing as an RDFa-Lite parser.
Gregg Kellogg: Should RDFa-Lite be a different format. We decided it should NOT be. There is no such thing as an RDFa-Lite parser. ←
15:42:47 <sandro> q?
q? ←
15:43:13 <sandro> gkellogg: alas, HTML Validator only does RDFa-Lite.
Gregg Kellogg: alas, HTML Validator only does RDFa-Lite. ←
15:43:17 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:43:19 <sandro> sandro: yeah!
Sandro Hawke: yeah! ←
15:43:27 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
15:43:34 <PatH> gives a whole new meaning to "dog food".
Patrick Hayes: gives a whole new meaning to "dog food". ←
15:43:58 <sandro> gkellogg: Having a Line-Mode TriG Subset, flagged in media type parameter, would be useful.
Gregg Kellogg: Having a Line-Mode TriG Subset, flagged in media type parameter, would be useful. ←
15:44:17 <gavinc> Currently we have 2 resolutions saying we intend to publish N-Quads AS N-Quads and N-Triples as N-Triples
Gavin Carothers: Currently we have 2 resolutions saying we intend to publish N-Quads AS N-Quads and N-Triples as N-Triples ←
15:46:14 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:47:09 <AndyS> http://wiki.dbpedia.org/Downloads38
Andy Seaborne: http://wiki.dbpedia.org/Downloads38 ←
15:47:41 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:47:50 <gavinc> JSON-LD uses N-Quads, just about every SPARQL database supports N-Quads, all the RDF UI editors support N-Quads, every RDF library supports N-Quads
Gavin Carothers: JSON-LD uses N-Quads, just about every SPARQL database supports N-Quads, all the RDF UI editors support N-Quads, every RDF library supports N-Quads ←
15:49:15 <yvesr> nquads get used a lot at the BBC for backing up/exchanging datasets between systems
Yves Raimond: nquads get used a lot at the BBC for backing up/exchanging datasets between systems ←
15:50:00 <ericP> when we talk about "simplicity", i think we need to think about the person learning and considering RDF
Eric Prud'hommeaux: when we talk about "simplicity", i think we need to think about the person learning and considering RDF ←
15:50:59 <ericP> for that person, a new format is waay more complex than a profile of a format that they have to learn anyways
Eric Prud'hommeaux: for that person, a new format is waay more complex than a profile of a format that they have to learn anyways ←
15:52:04 <sandro> sandro: I'll change my vote on N-Quads as a Rec to -0.9. I don't think N-Quads should be a Rec. But if everyone wants it, whatever.
Sandro Hawke: I'll change my vote on N-Quads as a Rec to -0.9. I don't think N-Quads should be a Rec. But if everyone wants it, whatever. ←
15:52:49 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:52:49 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
15:54:03 <sandro> sandro: Should we be making a new Recommendation for something we don't think people should be using?
Sandro Hawke: Should we be making a new Recommendation for something we don't think people should be using? ←
15:54:07 <ericP> document it, sure, but a Note is perfect for that
Eric Prud'hommeaux: document it, sure, but a Note is perfect for that ←
15:54:36 <sandro> sandro: If it's just documenting current practice, us a Note. But I'm not going to fight about this.
Sandro Hawke: If it's just documenting current practice, us a Note. But I'm not going to fight about this. ←
15:55:26 <sandro> gavin: We want the Rec Track to make sure we have the feedback from the community that we've got it document right.
Gavin Carothers: We want the Rec Track to make sure we have the feedback from the community that we've got it document right. ←
15:55:37 <sandro> sandro: I'm letting go of this issue on N-Quads.
Sandro Hawke: I'm letting go of this issue on N-Quads. ←
15:55:51 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:55:52 <PatH> Sorry I lost the IRC
Patrick Hayes: Sorry I lost the IRC ←
15:55:56 <sandro> topic: TriG
15:55:56 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:56:18 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:56:18 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
15:57:04 <sandro> AndyS: I see an opportunity to push TriG as a more general format. Cambridge Semantics uses it heavily internally. But I don't see it used in the wild very much. So I suggest documentin TriG and create a new language, with a new name which has graphs.
Andy Seaborne: I see an opportunity to push TriG as a more general format. Cambridge Semantics uses it heavily internally. But I don't see it used in the wild very much. So I suggest documentin TriG and create a new language, with a new name which has graphs. ←
15:57:11 <sandro> q?
q? ←
15:57:13 <sandro> q+
q+ ←
15:57:25 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
15:59:00 <sandro> sandro: So are we talking "TurtleG" which is Turtle plus (1) inline { } graphs and (2) GRAPH <> { }
Sandro Hawke: So are we talking "TurtleG" which is Turtle plus (1) inline { } graphs and (2) GRAPH <> { } ←
15:59:24 <sandro> gkellogg: default graph followed by a named graph hard to parse
Gregg Kellogg: default graph followed by a named graph hard to parse ←
15:59:43 <sandro> AndyS: not that hard. well, it's a pain, but it's doable.
Andy Seaborne: not that hard. well, it's a pain, but it's doable. ←
16:01:09 <sandro> gavin: Maybe leave out @-stuff
Gavin Carothers: Maybe leave out @-stuff ←
16:01:26 <sandro> davidwood: Anyone worried about plethora of syntaxes?
David Wood: Anyone worried about plethora of syntaxes? ←
16:01:39 <PatH> I am worried with Sandro, the issue is real.
Patrick Hayes: I am worried with Sandro, the issue is real. ←
16:01:58 <PatH> too many syntaxes
Patrick Hayes: too many syntaxes ←
16:02:23 <sandro> gavinc: This would probably mean TriG is closer to old TriG, if we want.
Gavin Carothers: This would probably mean TriG is closer to old TriG, if we want. ←
16:02:30 <markus> me too
Markus Lanthaler: me too ←
16:02:41 <sandro> andy: Notes go into TR space.
Andy Seaborne: Notes go into TR space. ←
16:03:03 <sandro> sandro: Member or Team submissions are an alternative.
Sandro Hawke: Member or Team submissions are an alternative. ←
16:03:08 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/...
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/... ←
16:04:10 <AndyS> q+ (after this segment)
Andy Seaborne: q+ (after this segment) ←
16:04:25 <AndyS> q+ after this segment
Andy Seaborne: q+ after this segment ←
16:05:00 <sandro> sandro: I like Turtle and TurtleG from a marketing perspective
Sandro Hawke: I like Turtle and TurtleG from a marketing perspective ←
16:05:27 <AndyS> hence not GRAPH but :-
Andy Seaborne: hence not GRAPH but :- ←
16:05:54 <sandro> sandro: I like the idea of saying TurtleG is only for datasets using certain semantic constraints (that blank node graph names denote their graphs).
Sandro Hawke: I like the idea of saying TurtleG is only for datasets using certain semantic constraints (that blank node graph names denote their graphs). ←
16:05:57 <AndyS> <g> :- { s p o } is denote
Andy Seaborne: <g> :- { s p o } is denote ←
16:06:02 <sandro> pat: sounds reasonable.
Patrick Hayes: sounds reasonable. ←
16:06:27 <PatH> Well, actually its not *reasonable* but its better than nothing.
Patrick Hayes: Well, actually its not *reasonable* but its better than nothing. ←
16:07:23 <gavinc> STRAWPOLL: Design new language TurtleG and recommend it (and recommend it to LDP)
STRAWPOLL: Design new language TurtleG and recommend it (and recommend it to LDP) ←
16:07:55 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:07:57 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
16:08:05 <PatH> FOr the record, my semantic concern is that if this encodes an extra sematnic constraint, hen the dataset must have *something* in it which records this extra semantics. That could be a speical triple, for example.
Patrick Hayes: FOr the record, my semantic concern is that if this encodes an extra sematnic constraint, hen the dataset must have *something* in it which records this extra semantics. That could be a speical triple, for example. ←
16:09:03 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
16:09:19 <sandro> +1
+1 ←
16:09:28 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
16:09:30 <gkellogg> (and +1 to PatH)
Gregg Kellogg: (and +1 to PatH) ←
16:09:41 <TallTed> +0.9
Ted Thibodeau: +0.9 ←
16:09:43 <sandro> eric: +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
16:09:44 <davidwood> +0
David Wood: +0 ←
16:09:48 <cgreer> +0
Charles Greer: +0 ←
16:09:50 <AndyS> 0 and iff Trig is documented
Andy Seaborne: 0 and iff Trig is documented ←
16:09:53 <sandro> (I do have concerns about the timeline)
(I do have concerns about the timeline) ←
16:09:54 <markus> +0.9, iff that means that the other languages don't become RECs
Markus Lanthaler: +0.9, iff that means that the other languages don't become RECs ←
16:09:58 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:10:00 <Souri> 0
Souripriya Das: 0 ←
16:10:18 <gavinc> +0
Gavin Carothers: +0 ←
16:10:24 <tbaker> +0
Thomas Baker: +0 ←
16:10:47 <sandro> andy: I see this as a way forward.
Andy Seaborne: I see this as a way forward. ←
16:11:16 <sandro> andy: I'm concerned about the short time line of this decision. It might be messing up some opportunty.
Andy Seaborne: I'm concerned about the short time line of this decision. It might be messing up some opportunty. ←
16:11:43 <sandro> sandro: How can we mitigate that risk.
Sandro Hawke: How can we mitigate that risk. ←
16:11:47 <PatH> Not doing this is also taking a decision which has potential risks.
Patrick Hayes: Not doing this is also taking a decision which has potential risks. ←
16:12:32 <sandro> andy: TriG as a Note or Rec
Andy Seaborne: TriG as a Note or Rec ←
16:13:07 <yvesr> +0
Yves Raimond: +0 ←
16:13:33 <sandro> [ a :Update; :delete {...}; :insert {... } ]
[ a :Update; :delete {...}; :insert {... } ] ←
16:14:44 <sandro> andy: There a re streaming problems with this.
Andy Seaborne: There a re streaming problems with this. ←
16:14:54 <PatH> What is 'a' here? A dataset or some kind of datastructure? If the latter, what is it called?
Patrick Hayes: What is 'a' here? A dataset or some kind of datastructure? If the latter, what is it called? ←
16:15:29 <PatH> You can't update a dataset.
Patrick Hayes: You can't update a dataset. ←
16:15:38 <gavinc> +q
Gavin Carothers: +q ←
16:16:01 <davidwood> ack gavinc
David Wood: ack gavinc ←
16:16:05 <sandro> andy: That isn't a motivating example for me.
Andy Seaborne: That isn't a motivating example for me. ←
16:16:13 <AndyS> N3 is submission - hence "documented" at the below TR level
Andy Seaborne: N3 is submission - hence "documented" at the below TR level ←
16:17:19 <sandro> gavinc: Do what the market is doing. Designing a new language us reasonable, but not in this timescale.
Gavin Carothers: Do what the market is doing. Designing a new language us reasonable, but not in this timescale. ←
16:17:19 <sandro> q+
q+ ←
16:18:23 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
16:20:01 <sandro> gavin: I would formally object to adding inline graphs to TriG.
Gavin Carothers: I would formally object to adding inline graphs to TriG. ←
16:20:25 <sandro> gkellogg: We don't have to call it TriG. We could call it TurtleG or whatever.
Gregg Kellogg: We don't have to call it TriG. We could call it TurtleG or whatever. ←
16:20:51 <sandro> gkellogg: So stick with TriG as is, with bnode names and graph keyword.
Gregg Kellogg: So stick with TriG as is, with bnode names and graph keyword. ←
16:21:23 <sandro> davidwood: A lot of languages change during standardization and don't change names.
David Wood: A lot of languages change during standardization and don't change names. ←
16:21:41 <sandro> davidwood: We're out of time. Any last minute business.
David Wood: We're out of time. Any last minute business. ←
16:22:00 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
16:22:02 <Zakim> - +1.707.874.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.707.874.aabb ←
16:22:04 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:22:04 <sandro> sandro: Gavin's formal objection is sufficient for me. I'll let the matter drop.
Sandro Hawke: Gavin's formal objection is sufficient for me. I'll let the matter drop. ←
16:22:06 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
16:22:09 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:22:12 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
16:22:45 <sandro> gavin: This is just the Step Too Far.
Gavin Carothers: This is just the Step Too Far. ←
16:22:59 <sandro> gavin: It turns out parsing empty graphs was the hardest problem.
Gavin Carothers: It turns out parsing empty graphs was the hardest problem. ←
16:23:58 <sandro> gavin: Most TriG parsers no-op empty graphs -- they don't record it, so it doesn't end up in the data set.
Gavin Carothers: Most TriG parsers no-op empty graphs -- they don't record it, so it doesn't end up in the data set. ←
16:26:32 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
Andy Seaborne: ADJOURNED ←
16:26:32 <sandro> andy: The first case to be made to the community is that quoting graphs matters.
Andy Seaborne: The first case to be made to the community is that quoting graphs matters. ←
16:29:23 <Zakim> -markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -markus ←
16:31:35 <AndyS> "# to end of line."
Andy Seaborne: "# to end of line." ←
16:39:02 <AndyS> GTG
(No events recorded for 7 minutes)
Andy Seaborne: GTG ←
16:40:03 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:45:33 <Zakim> -TallTed
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
16:45:34 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:45:35 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:45:35 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended ←
16:45:35 <Zakim> Attendees were davidwood, +1.707.861.aaaa, gavinc, gkellogg, AndyS, Sandro, yvesr, PatH, +1.707.874.aabb, Souri, EricP, TallTed, markus
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were davidwood, +1.707.861.aaaa, gavinc, gkellogg, AndyS, Sandro, yvesr, PatH, +1.707.874.aabb, Souri, EricP, TallTed, markus ←
Formatted by CommonScribe