14:58:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/28-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/28-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:58:39 <pfps> scribenick pfps
Peter Patel-Schneider: scribenick pfps ←
14:59:18 <gavinc> trackbot, start meeting
Gavin Carothers: trackbot, start meeting ←
14:59:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:59:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:59:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
14:59:23 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:59:23 <trackbot> Date: 28 September 2011
15:00:38 <pfps> scribenick: pfps
(Scribe set to Peter Patel-Schneider)
15:00:43 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:00:43 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, Guus ←
15:00:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood, trackbot, stain, yvesr_,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood, trackbot, stain, yvesr_, ←
15:00:47 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ericP ←
15:01:30 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:01:30 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, MacTed ←
15:01:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see PatH, Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood, trackbot, stain,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see PatH, Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood, trackbot, stain, ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> ... yvesr_, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... yvesr_, sandro, ericP ←
15:01:36 <MacTed> Zakim, this is 73394
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, this is 73394 ←
15:01:36 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, MacTed; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:01:38 <Zakim> +bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhyland ←
15:01:39 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:01:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see +31.20.598.aaaa, Tony, +33.4.77.42.aabb, +1.443.212.aacc, OpenLink_Software, Arnaud, +1.707.861.aadd, bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +31.20.598.aaaa, Tony, +33.4.77.42.aabb, +1.443.212.aacc, OpenLink_Software, Arnaud, +1.707.861.aadd, bhyland ←
15:01:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see PatH, Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood, trackbot, stain,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see PatH, Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood, trackbot, stain, ←
15:01:47 <Zakim> ... yvesr_, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... yvesr_, sandro, ericP ←
15:01:48 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:01:49 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
15:01:50 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:01:51 <gavinc> zakim, aadd is me
Gavin Carothers: zakim, aadd is me ←
15:01:53 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:01:55 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:01:57 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
15:01:58 <AlexHall> zakim, aacc is me
Alex Hall: zakim, aacc is me ←
15:01:59 <davidwood> zakim, bhyland is me
David Wood: zakim, bhyland is me ←
15:02:01 <Zakim> + +44.207.923.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.207.923.aaee ←
15:02:03 <Scott_Bauer> zakim, Tony is me
Scott Bauer: zakim, Tony is me ←
15:02:05 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
15:02:06 <pfps> scribenick: pfps
15:02:07 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it ←
15:02:09 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott_Bauer; got it ←
15:02:14 <Guus> zakim, +31.20.598.aaaa is me
Guus Schreiber: zakim, +31.20.598.aaaa is me ←
15:02:17 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus; got it ←
15:02:18 <Arnaud> fyi, I will have to drop at the hour
Arnaud Le Hors: fyi, I will have to drop at the hour ←
15:02:28 <pfps> topic: Admin
15:02:41 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:03:15 <yvesr_> Zakim, who's on the call?
Yves Raimond: Zakim, who's on the call? ←
15:03:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, Scott_Bauer, +33.4.77.42.aabb, AlexHall, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, gavinc, davidwood, Peter_Patel-Schneider, +44.207.923.aaee, PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus, Scott_Bauer, +33.4.77.42.aabb, AlexHall, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, gavinc, davidwood, Peter_Patel-Schneider, +44.207.923.aaee, PatH ←
15:03:15 <AZ> zakim, aabb is me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, aabb is me ←
15:03:18 <PatH> I will have to drop out in 30 mins for a short while.
Patrick Hayes: I will have to drop out in 30 mins for a short while. ←
15:03:18 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:03:27 <yvesr_> Zakim, +44.207.923.aaee is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, +44.207.923.aaee is me ←
15:03:27 <Zakim> +yvesr_; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr_; got it ←
15:03:32 <yvesr_> Zakim, mute me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, mute me ←
15:03:32 <Zakim> yvesr_ should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: yvesr_ should now be muted ←
15:03:37 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:03:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, Scott_Bauer, AZ, AlexHall, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, gavinc, davidwood, Peter_Patel-Schneider, yvesr_ (muted), PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus, Scott_Bauer, AZ, AlexHall, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, gavinc, davidwood, Peter_Patel-Schneider, yvesr_ (muted), PatH ←
15:03:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see cmatheus, pchampin, PatH, Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cmatheus, pchampin, PatH, Arnaud, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, AZ, pfps, Scott_Bauer, Guus, danbri, mischat, gavinc, MacTed, LeeF, SteveH, NickH, manu, manu1, davidwood, ←
15:03:41 <Zakim> ... trackbot, stain, yvesr_, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot, stain, yvesr_, sandro, ericP ←
15:03:45 <Zakim> + +1.781.899.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.781.899.aaff ←
15:03:45 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:03:47 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 ←
15:03:55 <sandro> zakim, aaff is Sandro
Sandro Hawke: zakim, aaff is Sandro ←
15:03:55 <Zakim> +Sandro; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro; got it ←
15:04:04 <Zakim> +??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34 ←
15:04:12 <pchampin> zakim, ??P34 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P34 is me ←
15:04:12 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
15:04:14 <pchampin> zakim, mute me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, mute me ←
15:04:14 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pchampin should now be muted ←
15:04:28 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aagg ←
15:04:33 <PatH> zakim, mute me
Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me ←
15:04:33 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted ←
15:04:39 <zwu2> zakim, aagg is me
15:04:39 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it ←
15:04:49 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
15:04:50 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted ←
15:04:52 <pfps> PROPOSED: accept minutes of 21 Sep http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-21
PROPOSED: accept minutes of 21 Sep http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-21 ←
15:05:03 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:05:21 <pfps> RESOLVED: accept minutes of 21 Sep http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-21
RESOLVED: accept minutes of 21 Sep http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-21 ←
15:05:33 <pfps> guus: action items - pending
Guus Schreiber: action items - pending ←
15:06:16 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:06:37 <yvesr_> done :)
Yves Raimond: done :) ←
15:06:49 <pfps> guus: 77 done, 89 [done], 90 done, 91 done
Guus Schreiber: 77 done, 89 [done], 90 done, 91 done ←
15:07:02 <pfps> guus: open actions
Guus Schreiber: open actions ←
15:07:08 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aahh ←
15:07:18 <Souri> zakim, aahh is me
Souripriya Das: zakim, aahh is me ←
15:07:19 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri; got it ←
15:07:27 <pfps> guus: action 82 - Sandro?
Guus Schreiber: ACTION-82 - Sandro? ←
15:07:42 <pfps> sandro: no action yet - will try this week
Sandro Hawke: no action yet - will try this week ←
15:07:53 <pfps> guus: action 86 - Sandro?
Guus Schreiber: ACTION-86 - Sandro? ←
15:08:08 <sandro> action-86?
15:08:08 <trackbot> ACTION-86 -- Sandro Hawke to provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2. -- due 2011-09-14 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-86 -- Sandro Hawke to provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2. -- due 2011-09-14 -- OPEN ←
15:08:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/86
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/86 ←
15:08:35 <pfps> sandro: 86 is either done or obsolete
Sandro Hawke: 86 is either done or obsolete ←
15:08:41 <pfps> guus: everything is to continue
Guus Schreiber: everything is to continue ←
15:08:43 <sandro> it's both!
Sandro Hawke: it's both! ←
15:09:07 <pfps> TOPIC: F2F planning
15:09:12 <pfps> guus: anything to be done
Guus Schreiber: anything to be done ←
15:09:14 <sandro> is it disjunction and/or conjunction? :-)
Sandro Hawke: is it disjunction and/or conjunction? :-) ←
15:09:22 <yvesr_> Zakim, unmute me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:09:23 <Zakim> yvesr_ should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: yvesr_ should no longer be muted ←
15:09:51 <pfps> davidwood: note that times have changed (and are now aligned)
David Wood: note that times have changed (and are now aligned) ←
15:09:53 <yvesr_> Zakim, mute me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, mute me ←
15:09:53 <Zakim> yvesr_ should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: yvesr_ should now be muted ←
15:09:59 <ericP> sandro, do you know the foo to make sure the Stata doors are unlocked?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: sandro, do you know the foo to make sure the Stata doors are unlocked? ←
15:10:09 <ericP> if not, i'll dig into it
Eric Prud'hommeaux: if not, i'll dig into it ←
15:10:22 <sandro> please do, eric.
Sandro Hawke: please do, eric. ←
15:10:36 <pfps> guus: agenda for F2F2 is on the wiki, need to make sure that some open time remains
Guus Schreiber: agenda for F2F2 is on the wiki, need to make sure that some open time remains ←
15:10:53 <pfps> guus: no need to change more right now
Guus Schreiber: no need to change more right now ←
15:11:15 <pfps> TOPIC: Turtle in HTML
15:11:36 <pfps> guus: see message from Gavin
Guus Schreiber: see message from Gavin ←
15:11:57 <pfps> gavinc: document needs to be brought up before HTML task force
Gavin Carothers: document needs to be brought up before HTML data task force ←
15:12:13 <pfps> s/HTML/HTML data/
15:13:04 <pfps> ACTION gavinc: liase with HTML data task force to bring up Turtle in HTML document, etc.
ACTION gavinc: liase with HTML data task force to bring up Turtle in HTML document, etc. ←
15:13:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Liase with HTML data task force to bring up Turtle in HTML document, etc. [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-10-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-92 - Liase with HTML data task force to bring up Turtle in HTML document, etc. [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-10-05]. ←
15:13:52 <pfps> TOPIC: Liaison with Provenance WG
15:14:11 <pfps> guus: trust use case from Sandro http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-prov/2011Sep/0003.html
Guus Schreiber: trust use case from Sandro http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-prov/2011Sep/0003.html ←
15:14:33 <davidwood> q+ to ask what impact Turtle in HTML might have on RDF/JSON
David Wood: q+ to ask what impact Turtle in HTML might have on RDF/JSON ←
15:14:34 <pfps> guus: this appears to be a good, driving example
Guus Schreiber: this appears to be a good, driving example ←
15:15:00 <pfps> sandro: I can't speak for the PWG, even though I tried to provoke discussion of it there
Sandro Hawke: I can't speak for the PWG, even though I tried to provoke discussion of it there ←
15:15:30 <pfps> sandro: Richard had some comments, notably a set of actions
Sandro Hawke: Richard had some comments, notably a set of actions ←
15:16:03 <pfps> guus: how about RDF to show example(s)?
Guus Schreiber: how about RDF to show example(s)? ←
15:16:23 <PatH> this example seems very ambitious to me. ZDoes the Prov. grp consider it in their scope?
Patrick Hayes: this example seems very ambitious to me. ZDoes the Prov. grp consider it in their scope? ←
15:16:36 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:16:44 <pfps> sandro: one issue is when you need a "snapshot", e.g., "That's not right", but then the "that" is fixed
Sandro Hawke: one issue is when you need a "snapshot", e.g., "That's not right", but then the "that" is fixed ←
15:16:48 <AndyS> zakim, ??P3 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:16:48 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:17:10 <pfps> sandro: Richard's proposal does not appear to speak to this
Sandro Hawke: Richard's proposal does not appear to speak to this ←
15:18:18 <pfps> guus: can we come up with some worked examples, showing potential RDF content?
Guus Schreiber: can we come up with some worked examples, showing potential RDF content? ←
15:18:34 <pfps> sandro: I'll try to work this into the conversation with Richard
Sandro Hawke: I'll try to work this into the conversation with Richard ←
15:18:57 <sandro> will post to public-rdf-prov@w3.org
Sandro Hawke: will post to public-rdf-prov@w3.org ←
15:19:08 <pfps> sandro: on the joint mailing list public-rdf-prov@w3.org
Sandro Hawke: on the joint mailing list public-rdf-prov@w3.org ←
15:19:52 <pfps> guus: can something be done on this at the F2F?
Guus Schreiber: can something be done on this at the F2F? ←
15:20:06 <davidwood> q-
David Wood: q- ←
15:20:07 <pfps> guus: we need to prepare something on this for F2F
Guus Schreiber: we need to prepare something on this for F2F ←
15:20:30 <pfps> sandro: can others do other examples?
Sandro Hawke: can others do other examples? ←
15:20:52 <pfps> guus: how about responding to the first example with potential solutions?
Guus Schreiber: how about responding to the first example with potential solutions? ←
15:21:44 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC ←
15:22:14 <pfps> the above link is the relevant page for this WG to edit on provenance
the above link is the relevant page for this WG to edit on provenance ←
15:22:23 <pfps> guus: volunteers to do something?
Guus Schreiber: volunteers to do something? ←
15:22:58 <pfps> gavinc: there is an example - i'll work on it
Gavin Carothers: there is an example - i'll work on it ←
15:23:36 <yvesr_> just got a nice use-case from Denni V - I asked him to write it up
Yves Raimond: just got a nice use-case from Denni V - I asked him to write it up ←
15:23:47 <yvesr_> about data wikis
Yves Raimond: about data wikis ←
15:23:59 <PatH> whatever you decide, it only works if everyone does it.
Patrick Hayes: whatever you decide, it only works if everyone does it. ←
15:24:19 <gavinc> Exactly.
Gavin Carothers: Exactly. ←
15:24:40 <sandro> sandro: maybe simplest solution is all script/turtle elements are the default graph, unless they have id tags. This gives you a dataset serialization format (although only when the graph ids have the same base)
Sandro Hawke: maybe simplest solution is all script/turtle elements are the default graph, unless they have id tags. This gives you a dataset serialization format (although only when the graph ids have the same base) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:24:51 <pfps> guus: please come up with interesting suggestions for proposals
Guus Schreiber: please come up with interesting suggestions for proposals ←
15:25:04 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:25:22 <sandro> Jan
Sandro Hawke: Jan ←
15:25:41 <Guus> Jan Wielemaker
Guus Schreiber: Jan Wielemaker ←
15:25:43 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
15:25:50 <AndyS> (implicit) base URIs considered harmful.
Andy Seaborne: (implicit) base URIs considered harmful. ←
15:25:52 <Guus> will ask him to look at examples
Guus Schreiber: will ask him to look at examples ←
15:25:54 <pfps> guus: i'll ask Jan Wielemaker to contribute
Guus Schreiber: i'll ask Jan Wielemaker to contribute ←
15:26:08 <davidwood> AndyS++
David Wood: AndyS++ ←
15:26:45 <PatH> "My favorite quadstore", a contemporary love story.
Patrick Hayes: "My favorite quadstore", a contemporary love story. ←
15:26:54 <gavinc> www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Graphs-In-Turtle
Gavin Carothers: www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Graphs-In-Turtle ←
15:27:02 <pfps> guus: provenance will be a main topic at the F2F
Guus Schreiber: provenance will be a main topic at the F2F ←
15:27:55 <pfps> gavinc: work on serialization of all this
Gavin Carothers: work on serialization of all this ←
15:28:32 <pfps> gavinc: looking at what it would take to standarize something like TRIG or n-QUADS and how it could be compatible with Turtle
Gavin Carothers: looking at what it would take to standarize something like TRIG or n-QUADS and how it could be compatible with Turtle ←
15:29:11 <pfps> gavinc: proposal from me (GRAPH keyword); another like TRIG (see strawman page)
Gavin Carothers: proposal from me (GRAPH keyword); another like TRIG (see strawman page) ←
15:30:25 <pfps> gavinc: problem with TRIG is that it isn't n-quads (because TRIG has to have all the graph in one spot)
Gavin Carothers: problem with TRIG is that it isn't n-quads (because TRIG has to have all the graph in one spot) ←
15:30:36 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
15:30:40 <pfps> Strawman proposal Richard: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph
Strawman proposal Richard: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph ←
15:30:48 <ericP> q+ to say the semantics might be easier if each graph simply added to the "database" so repeats simply append
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say the semantics might be easier if each graph simply added to the "database" so repeats simply append ←
15:31:14 <pfps> Sandro: I don't like stateful syntaxes
Sandro Hawke: I don't like stateful syntaxes ←
15:31:52 <sandro> ericp
Sandro Hawke: ericp ←
15:32:28 <pfps> ericP: Turtle already has state - in [], prefixes, etc., so we wouldn't be too much worse
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Turtle already has state - in [], prefixes, etc., so we wouldn't be too much worse ←
15:32:35 <ericP> <G1> { <G2> { <s> <p> <o> } }
Eric Prud'hommeaux: <G1> { <G2> { <s> <p> <o> } } ←
15:32:40 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
15:32:47 <Guus> ack eripP
Guus Schreiber: ack eripP ←
15:32:53 <ericP> <G1> {
Eric Prud'hommeaux: <G1> { ←
15:32:58 <Guus> ack aricP
Guus Schreiber: ack aricP ←
15:33:02 <AndyS> Turtle is only concat as whole files. (bNode labels excepted) is that enough?
Andy Seaborne: Turtle is only concat as whole files. (bNode labels excepted) is that enough? ←
15:33:03 <ericP> <G2> { <s> <p> <o> }
Eric Prud'hommeaux: <G2> { <s> <p> <o> } ←
15:33:05 <ericP> }
15:33:15 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:33:28 <sandro> sandro: so good practice might be to start every turtle doc with "@graph . #go back to the default graph" if you think there might be concats.
Sandro Hawke: so good practice might be to start every turtle doc with "@graph . #go back to the default graph" if you think there might be concats. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:33:29 <pfps> ericP: some of this can be addressed by fiddling with embedding
Eric Prud'hommeaux: some of this can be addressed by fiddling with embedding ←
15:33:46 <Guus> ack ericP
Guus Schreiber: ack ericP ←
15:33:46 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say the semantics might be easier if each graph simply added to the "database" so repeats simply append
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to say the semantics might be easier if each graph simply added to the "database" so repeats simply append ←
15:34:06 <pfps> ericP: concatenation has some negative consequences
Eric Prud'hommeaux: concatenation has some negative consequences ←
15:35:01 <pfps> ericP: line-orientation also runs counter to concatenability
Eric Prud'hommeaux: line-orientation also runs counter to concatenability ←
15:35:20 <LeeF> We repeat the same graph ID a fair amount
Lee Feigenbaum: We repeat the same graph ID a fair amount ←
15:35:30 <LeeF> (in our TriG documents)
Lee Feigenbaum: (in our TriG documents) ←
15:35:33 <LeeF> And it's additive
Lee Feigenbaum: And it's additive ←
15:35:38 <pfps> AndyS: the (?) implementation of TRIG actually allows graph id repetition
Andy Seaborne: the (?) implementation of TRIG actually allows graph id repetition ←
15:36:13 <pfps> gavinc: but the semantics may not be best
Gavin Carothers: but the semantics may not be best ←
15:36:34 <sandro> = vs +=
Sandro Hawke: = vs += ←
15:36:36 <pfps> sandro: N3 has an implicit "=", so concatentation isn't the intended meaning
Sandro Hawke: N3 has an implicit "=", so concatentation isn't the intended meaning ←
15:36:48 <pfps> ericP: which version of N3
Andy Seaborne: which version of N3 ←
15:37:01 <ericP> s/ericP/AndyS/
15:37:16 <pfps> sandro: both
Sandro Hawke: both ←
15:38:15 <sandro> sandro: for this week, I'm inclined to go with @graph, since it's more clear to me what it means.
Sandro Hawke: for this week, I'm inclined to go with @graph, since it's more clear to me what it means. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:38:21 <ericP> with the curly braces approach, we have a short way to write the grammar:
Eric Prud'hommeaux: with the curly braces approach, we have a short way to write the grammar: ←
15:38:22 <ericP> [1] trigDoc ::= ( directive | trigGraph )*
Eric Prud'hommeaux: [1] trigDoc ::= ( directive | trigGraph )* ←
15:38:22 <ericP> [2] trigGraph ::= IRIref "="? "{" turtleDoc" "}" "."?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: [2] trigGraph ::= IRIref "="? "{" turtleDoc" "}" "."? ←
15:38:37 <ericP> and lean on the turtle spec
Eric Prud'hommeaux: and lean on the turtle spec ←
15:38:52 <pfps> sandro: @graph form - semantics??
Sandro Hawke: @graph form - semantics?? ←
15:39:20 <gavinc> @graph . #go back to the default graph
Gavin Carothers: @graph . #go back to the default graph ←
15:39:22 <pfps> gavinc: not complete
Gavin Carothers: not complete ←
15:39:32 <sandro> sandro: when you hit the end of the turtle file, do you know exactly which triples are in each named graph?
Sandro Hawke: when you hit the end of the turtle file, do you know exactly which triples are in each named graph? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:40:10 <pfps> guus: any relationship to documents
Guus Schreiber: any relationship to documents ←
15:41:09 <pfps> ??
?? ←
15:41:26 <ericP> q+ to say that i fiddled with making trig lean on Turtle: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/Trig
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say that i fiddled with making trig lean on Turtle: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/Trig ←
15:41:43 <pfps> sandro: dataset = gbox, gsnap is different
Sandro Hawke: dataset = gbox, gsnap is different ←
15:42:08 <pfps> gavinc: need something that shows complete graph contents
Gavin Carothers: need something that shows complete graph contents ←
15:42:44 <pfps> sandro: yes
Sandro Hawke: yes ←
15:42:51 <sandro> sandro: maybe = syntax will be clearer these are gsnaps
Sandro Hawke: maybe = syntax will be clearer these are gsnaps [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:43:09 <sandro> (uh oh - phone problems - may drop off without warning.)
Sandro Hawke: (uh oh - phone problems - may drop off without warning.) ←
15:43:22 <pfps> ericP: i fiddled with making trig lean on Turtle: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/Trig
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i fiddled with making trig lean on Turtle: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/Trig ←
15:43:35 <AndyS> Why not make Trig simply +Turtle (unnamed {} optional) +NQuads (outside {})
Andy Seaborne: Why not make Trig simply +Turtle (unnamed {} optional) +NQuads (outside {}) ←
15:44:34 <pfps> sandro: how about splitting the difference?
Sandro Hawke: how about splitting the difference? ←
15:44:43 <pfps> AndyS: the strawman is more line oriented
Andy Seaborne: the strawman is more line oriented ←
15:45:02 <ericP> q-
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q- ←
15:45:08 <pfps> AndyS: this helps with relationship to n-quads
Andy Seaborne: this helps with relationship to n-quads ←
15:45:22 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:46:37 <sandro> [....] is nesting, yeah.
Sandro Hawke: [....] is nesting, yeah. ←
15:46:43 <pfps> gavinc: trig introduces nesting to turtle, which doesn't have much
Gavin Carothers: trig introduces nesting to turtle, which doesn't have much ←
15:47:18 <yvesr_> although only one degree of nesting (in trig)
Yves Raimond: although only one degree of nesting (in trig) ←
15:47:28 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:47:59 <pfps> TOPIC: Status RDF Dataset proposal
15:48:09 <pfps> Strawman proposal Richard: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph
Strawman proposal Richard: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph ←
15:48:33 <pfps> guus: as Richard is not here, let's move on
Guus Schreiber: as Richard is not here, let's move on ←
15:48:44 <pfps> guus: ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals
Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals ←
15:48:58 <pfps> guus: Results of poll so far: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/46168/tagged_literals/results
Guus Schreiber: Results of poll so far: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/46168/tagged_literals/results ←
15:49:42 <pfps> guus: the proposals with only a few "no" votes are 1 and 2d
Guus Schreiber: the proposals with only a few "no" votes are 1 and 2d ←
15:49:56 <pfps> guus: the other proposals are very likely to be problematic
Guus Schreiber: the other proposals are very likely to be problematic ←
15:50:41 <pfps> guus: option 2d has fewer prefer not votes, so it appears to be a more-liked solution
Guus Schreiber: option 2d has fewer prefer not votes, so it appears to be a more-liked solution ←
15:51:12 <AZ> +1 to go on with 2d
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to go on with 2d ←
15:51:17 <pfps> guus: shall we spend *more* time discussing this, or should we just try for 2d
Guus Schreiber: shall we spend *more* time discussing this, or should we just try for 2d ←
15:51:20 <gavinc> +1 to go with 2d
Gavin Carothers: +1 to go with 2d ←
15:51:24 <LeeF> I'm happy with 2d
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm happy with 2d ←
15:51:37 <pchampin> +1 to go on with 2d
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to go on with 2d ←
15:51:40 <yvesr_> guus++
Yves Raimond: guus++ ←
15:52:08 <ericP> Arnaud, did you say that the current RDF spec says that language tags are normalized to lower case?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Arnaud, did you say that the current RDF spec says that language tags are normalized to lower case? ←
15:52:47 <pfps> davidwood: should we spend some time looking at cleaning up various uses of string literals
David Wood: should we spend some time looking at cleaning up various uses of string literals ←
15:53:05 <gavinc> ericP, yes
Gavin Carothers: ericP, yes ←
15:53:29 <pfps> guus: spending scarce F2F time may not be the best way
Guus Schreiber: spending scarce F2F time may not be the best way ←
15:54:07 <pfps> guus: can we put forward a proposal (next week?) in preparation for a final decision at the F2F?
Guus Schreiber: can we put forward a proposal (next week?) in preparation for a final decision at the F2F? ←
15:54:13 <ericP> gavinc, wasnt' that why we gave up on the datatype approach?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: gavinc, wasnt' that why we gave up on the datatype approach? ←
15:54:18 <pfps> davidwood: OK
David Wood: OK ←
15:54:27 <ericP> oh well, i'm not going to push anything
Eric Prud'hommeaux: oh well, i'm not going to push anything ←
15:54:51 <pfps> guus: i'll propose a resolution for next week (but maybe the initial proposer would be better)
Guus Schreiber: i'll propose a resolution for next week (but maybe the initial proposer would be better) ←
15:55:20 <AndyS> ericP - yes - sec 6.5 of "concepts"
Andy Seaborne: ericP - yes - sec 6.5 of "concepts" ←
15:55:40 <pfps> sandro: we need to try to make a final resolution - no backsliding!
Sandro Hawke: we need to try to make a final resolution - no backsliding! ←
15:56:41 <pfps> ACTION guus: propose a resolution for next week on language-tagged-literals
ACTION guus: propose a resolution for next week on language-tagged-literals ←
15:56:05 <pfps> TOPIC: AOB
15:56:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-93 - Propose a resolution for next week on language-tagged-literals [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-10-05].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-93 - Propose a resolution for next week on language-tagged-literals [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-10-05]. ←
15:57:01 <pfps> guus: adjourned
Guus Schreiber: adjourned ←
15:57:07 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:57:08 <yvesr_> bye!
Yves Raimond: bye! ←
15:57:08 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
15:57:10 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
15:57:10 <AZ> bye
Antoine Zimmermann: bye ←
15:57:11 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:57:11 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
15:57:11 <Zakim> -yvesr_
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr_ ←
15:57:13 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
15:57:13 <Zakim> -Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus ←
15:57:14 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:57:14 <zwu2> bye
15:57:16 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
15:57:17 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
15:57:20 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
15:57:24 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
15:57:28 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
15:57:34 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:57:36 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer
Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer ←
15:58:31 <pfps> rrsagent, please set logs world-visible
rrsagent, please set logs world-visible ←
15:58:40 <pfps> rrsagent, please draft minutes
rrsagent, please draft minutes ←
15:58:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/28-rdf-wg-minutes.html pfps
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/28-rdf-wg-minutes.html pfps ←
15:59:16 <pfps> rrsagent, please set minutes world-visible
rrsagent, please set minutes world-visible ←
15:59:16 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please set minutes world-visible', pfps. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'please set minutes world-visible', pfps. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
16:08:17 <Zakim> -pchampin
(No events recorded for 9 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
16:08:19 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended ←
16:08:20 <Zakim> Attendees were +33.4.77.42.aabb, +1.443.212.aacc, Arnaud, +1.707.861.aadd, Peter_Patel-Schneider, MacTed, gavinc, AlexHall, davidwood, Scott_Bauer, Guus, PatH, AZ, yvesr_,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +33.4.77.42.aabb, +1.443.212.aacc, Arnaud, +1.707.861.aadd, Peter_Patel-Schneider, MacTed, gavinc, AlexHall, davidwood, Scott_Bauer, Guus, PatH, AZ, yvesr_, ←
16:08:22 <Zakim> ... +1.781.899.aaff, Sandro, pchampin, +1.650.265.aagg, zwu2, EricP, +1.603.897.aahh, Souri, AndyS, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.781.899.aaff, Sandro, pchampin, +1.650.265.aagg, zwu2, EricP, +1.603.897.aahh, Souri, AndyS, LeeF ←
16:08:48 <pfps> rrsagent, please draft minutes
rrsagent, please draft minutes ←
16:08:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/28-rdf-wg-minutes.html pfps
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/28-rdf-wg-minutes.html pfps ←
16:09:14 <gavinc> Those aren't are minutes system btw ;)
Gavin Carothers: Those aren't are minutes system btw ;) ←
16:10:26 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ ←
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