None.
Review of PROV-AQ changes in response to raised issues. Editors ask for review and response to solved issues. Editors still have a number of outstanding issues to address.
review of outstanding older issues. Satya is in the process of checking whether the outstanding issues have been resolved or are superseded by new issues. He agreed to complete these by next week.
Overview of the status of Prov-O. Team has prepared a list of outstanding issues on the document. This list will be circulated. Issues to do with the prov-dm will be raised soon.
James has been updating the document to both address issues and attempt to follow the evolving discussion on the mailing list. Satya and Paul agreed to read the document and provide feedback.
Accounts and identifiers are seen as deeply related. The group had a long discussion about what is and what is not being identified in the prov-dm, in particular whether records or entities were being identified or both. The group agreed that it was important to settle this soon to gain a clear understanding. It was agreed that Luc would write up an example and that discussion should continue on the mailing list.
16:00:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-irc ←
16:00:16 <Luc> are you back?
Luc Moreau: are you back? ←
16:00:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
16:00:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
16:00:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
16:00:20 <trackbot> Date: 12 January 2012
16:00:24 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be prove
Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be prove ←
16:00:30 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
16:00:30 <jun> Yes! Glad to be back! First week back at work!
Jun Zhao: Yes! Glad to be back! First week back at work! ←
16:00:35 <Zakim> ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started ←
16:00:38 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.12
16:00:39 <Luc> congratulations!
Luc Moreau: congratulations! ←
16:00:39 <dgarijo> Hi Jun!
Daniel Garijo: Hi Jun! ←
16:00:48 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
16:00:53 <Luc> only a few thousand messages to catch up with ;-)
Luc Moreau: only a few thousand messages to catch up with ;-) ←
16:00:53 <jun> @luc: thanks
16:01:03 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
16:01:05 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
16:01:05 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:01:06 <jun> @luc, yep:)
16:01:11 <pgroth> Zakim, make logs public
Paul Groth: Zakim, make logs public ←
16:01:19 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public ←
16:01:30 <pgroth> scribe?
Paul Groth: scribe? ←
16:01:40 <satya> I can scribe
Satya Sahoo: I can scribe ←
16:01:41 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
16:01:45 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
16:01:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make logs public', pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'make logs public', pgroth ←
16:01:53 <pgroth> Scribe: Daniel Garijo
(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)
16:02:01 <dgarijo> although I have a bad sound quality today :(
although I have a bad sound quality today :( ←
16:02:03 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
16:02:10 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
16:02:23 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
16:03:01 <Zakim> +tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo ←
16:03:09 <dgarijo> pgroth: as usual, vote on the minutes of last week
Paul Groth: as usual, vote on the minutes of last week ←
16:03:12 <pgroth> Minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-01-05
Paul Groth: Minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-01-05 ←
16:03:14 <dgarijo> +1
+1 ←
16:03:15 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
16:03:20 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
16:03:23 <jun> +1
16:03:23 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
16:03:23 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
16:03:26 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
16:03:31 <Paolo> +1
Paolo Missier: +1 ←
16:03:39 <MLang> +1
Michael Lang: +1 ←
16:03:43 <jcheney> zakim, ??P18 is me
James Cheney: zakim, ??P18 is me ←
16:03:51 <pgroth> Accepted Minutes January 5 2012
Paul Groth: Accepted Minutes January 5 2012 ←
16:04:05 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open ←
16:04:06 <dgarijo> pgroth: review of actions items
Paul Groth: review of actions items ←
16:04:21 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
16:04:26 <dgarijo> ... 1) Action on pgroth to write a blog on overview
... 1) Action on pgroth to write a blog on overview ←
16:04:40 <dgarijo> ... about the PROV activities
... about the PROV activities ←
16:04:47 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/01/11/feedback-welcome-an-overview-of-the-provenance-prov-family-of-specs/
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/01/11/feedback-welcome-an-overview-of-the-provenance-prov-family-of-specs/ ←
16:05:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←
16:05:11 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, IPcaller.aa is me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, IPcaller.aa is me ←
16:05:27 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
16:05:34 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
16:05:39 <Zakim> + +49.302.093.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.302.093.aacc ←
16:05:43 <Zakim> +??P46
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P46 ←
16:05:45 <dgarijo> ... Luc had an action item to write a blog post with the diffs
... Luc had an action item to write a blog post with the diffs ←
16:05:57 <dgarijo> ... Satya had an action to look at a number of issues
... Satya had an action to look at a number of issues ←
16:06:12 <olaf> zakim, aacc is me
Olaf Hartig: zakim, aacc is me ←
16:06:14 <dgarijo> Satya: I have been working on it
Satya Sahoo: I have been working on it ←
16:06:23 <Zakim> +olaf; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +olaf; got it ←
16:06:57 <dgarijo> pgroth: please sign on the f2f page so I can make the appropriate arrangements
Paul Groth: please sign on the f2f page so I can make the appropriate arrangements ←
16:07:03 <dgarijo> ... we need scribes
... we need scribes ←
16:07:14 <pgroth> Topic: Prov-AQ changes
Summary: Review of PROV-AQ changes in response to raised issues. Editors ask for review and response to solved issues. Editors still have a number of outstanding issues to address.
<pgroth> Summary: Review of PROV-AQ changes in response to raised issues. Editors ask for review and response to solved issues. Editors still have a number of outstanding issues to address.
16:08:10 <pgroth> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/prov-aq.html
Paul Groth: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/prov-aq.html ←
16:08:29 <dgarijo> ... gk tried to address a number of issues
... gk tried to address a number of issues ←
16:08:52 <dgarijo> ... made a review and a bunch of editorial clarifications
... made a review and a bunch of editorial clarifications ←
16:08:57 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5 ←
16:09:04 <Zakim> +[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[ISI] ←
16:09:18 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aadd ←
16:09:43 <dgarijo> ... question about xml examples. Do we want them? where should they come in?
... question about xml examples. Do we want them? where should they come in? ←
16:10:33 <dgarijo> ... ??? suggested pingback to know when the provenance has been recorded
... ??? suggested pingback to know when the provenance has been recorded ←
16:10:41 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aaee ←
16:10:52 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
16:10:55 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
16:10:57 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:10:59 <dgarijo> ... pgrothhas to still to review the changes to see if completely agrees with it
... pgrothhas to still to review the changes to see if completely agrees with it ←
16:11:22 <Zakim> + +329331aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aaff ←
16:11:25 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:11:44 <pgroth> Topic: Updates of Prov-DM
Summary: review of outstanding older issues. Satya is in the process of checking whether the outstanding issues have been resolved or are superseded by new issues. He agreed to complete these by next week.
<pgroth> Summary: review of outstanding older issues. Satya is in the process of checking whether the outstanding issues have been resolved or are superseded by new issues. He agreed to complete these by next week.
16:11:52 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm ←
16:11:57 <dgarijo> ... update on issues in prov-dm
... update on issues in prov-dm ←
16:12:06 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aaff is me
Sam Coppens: zakim, +329331aaff is me ←
16:12:06 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←
16:12:17 <dgarijo> ... most of the issues have been raised/resolved.
... most of the issues have been raised/resolved. ←
16:12:18 <Zakim> + +1.518.608.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.608.aagg ←
16:12:35 <Zakim> - +44.789.470.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.789.470.aaee ←
16:12:48 <dgarijo> Luc: we have to group the issues. 105 is still open.
Luc Moreau: we have to group the issues. 105 is still open. ←
16:13:03 <dgarijo> ... will follow up a response
... will follow up a response ←
16:13:15 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aahh ←
16:13:52 <satya> @Luc, yes I am now reviewing the updates in DM and will respond to these issues soon
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, yes I am now reviewing the updates in DM and will respond to these issues soon ←
16:13:53 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:13:59 <dgarijo> ... tomorrow morning will start another pass on the document to prepare it for review by the next telecon
... tomorrow morning will start another pass on the document to prepare it for review by the next telecon ←
16:14:08 <Luc> @satya, thanks
Luc Moreau: @satya, thanks ←
16:14:08 <dgarijo> ... please satya review the pending issues
... please satya review the pending issues ←
16:14:09 <Zakim> - +44.789.470.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.789.470.aahh ←
16:14:21 <stain> zakim, +44.789.470.aahh is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, +44.789.470.aahh is me ←
16:14:21 <Zakim> sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789.470.aahh'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789.470.aahh' ←
16:14:22 <dgarijo> satya: ok
Satya Sahoo: ok ←
16:14:52 <dgarijo> pgroth: are this already in your action?
Paul Groth: are this already in your action? ←
16:15:09 <dgarijo> Luc: no. That action is from several weeks ago
Luc Moreau: no. That action is from several weeks ago ←
16:15:20 <stain> the "vacant" conference bridge is fighting me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: the "vacant" conference bridge is fighting me ←
16:15:20 <dgarijo> pgroth: satya, replace the action with a new one.
Paul Groth: satya, replace the action with a new one. ←
16:15:32 <pgroth> Action: Satya to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm
ACTION: Satya to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm ←
16:15:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm [on Satya Sahoo - due 2012-01-19].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-52 - Address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm [on Satya Sahoo - due 2012-01-19]. ←
16:15:44 <pgroth> Topic: prov-o
Summary: Overview of the status of Prov-O. Team has prepared a list of outstanding issues on the document. This list will be circulated. Issues to do with the prov-dm will be raised soon.
<pgroth> Summary: Overview of the status of Prov-O. Team has prepared a list of outstanding issues on the document. This list will be circulated. Issues to do with the prov-dm will be raised soon.
16:16:02 <satya> Meeting minutes from last PROV-O call: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-01-09
Satya Sahoo: Meeting minutes from last PROV-O call: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-01-09 ←
16:16:07 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aaii
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aaii ←
16:16:38 <dgarijo> satya: dgarijo has created a list of issues, and we have been resolving them
Satya Sahoo: dgarijo has created a list of issues, and we have been resolving them ←
16:16:53 <dgarijo> ... still have 3 main bullets to complete the list.
... still have 3 main bullets to complete the list. ←
16:17:12 <dgarijo> ... we have been recording the changes to make in the doc
... we have been recording the changes to make in the doc ←
16:17:27 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:17:34 <dgarijo> ... some issues have been raised.
... some issues have been raised. ←
16:17:56 <Luc> can you indicate what requires discussion with dm?
Luc Moreau: can you indicate what requires discussion with dm? ←
16:18:02 <dgarijo> +q
+q ←
16:18:16 <pgroth> ack dgarijo
Paul Groth: ack dgarijo ←
16:18:21 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:18:33 <pgroth> ack luc
Paul Groth: ack luc ←
16:18:49 <dgarijo> satya: you'll see the changes to the html doc soon (next telecon)
Satya Sahoo: you'll see the changes to the html doc soon (next telecon) ←
16:19:15 <dgarijo> Luc: can you identify what are the issues to be discused within dm?
Luc Moreau: can you identify what are the issues to be discused within dm? ←
16:19:15 <satya> Meeting minutes PROV_O: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2011-12-29
Satya Sahoo: Meeting minutes PROV_O: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2011-12-29 ←
16:19:53 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-01-04#Did_not_get_to_in_this_telecon ?
Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-01-04#Did_not_get_to_in_this_telecon ? ←
16:20:02 <dgarijo> satya: some concerns about making wasStartedBy and wasEndedBy subclasses of wasAssociatedWith
Satya Sahoo: some concerns about making wasStartedBy and wasEndedBy subclasses of wasAssociatedWith ←
16:20:41 <dgarijo> szednik: some classes seem to be modeling things with different semantics. Also actedOnBehalfOf
Stephan Zednik: some classes seem to be modeling things with different semantics. Also actedOnBehalfOf ←
16:21:42 <dgarijo> luc: some of the issues could be raised as issues against prov-o
Luc Moreau: some of the issues could be raised as issues against prov-o ←
16:22:20 <dgarijo> luc: none of the editors will be at f2f
Luc Moreau: none of the editors will be at f2f ←
16:22:49 <khalidbelhajjame> I ll be there
Khalid Belhajjame: I ll be there ←
16:22:51 <tlebo> I'll be calling in to F2F2.
Timothy Lebo: I'll be calling in to F2F2. ←
16:22:53 <dgarijo> satya: some of the authors are going to attend: Daniel, Stian, Khalid
Satya Sahoo: some of the authors are going to attend: Daniel, Stian, Khalid ←
16:22:56 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:22:57 <stain> not tim?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: not tim? ←
16:23:38 <dgarijo> pgroth: so, in summary, you will be raising issues against dm soon.
Paul Groth: so, in summary, you will be raising issues against dm soon. ←
16:23:42 <dgarijo> satya: yes
Satya Sahoo: yes ←
16:23:50 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:24:08 <jcheney> www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman
James Cheney: www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman ←
16:24:10 <pgroth> Topic: Prov-Semantics
Summary: James has been updating the document to both address issues and attempt to follow the evolving discussion on the mailing list. Satya and Paul agreed to read the document and provide feedback.
<pgroth> Summary: James has been updating the document to both address issues and attempt to follow the evolving discussion on the mailing list. Satya and Paul agreed to read the document and provide feedback.
16:24:29 <dgarijo> jcheney: I've been updating what's there
James Cheney: I've been updating what's there ←
16:24:43 <dgarijo> ... answered some emails
... answered some emails ←
16:25:31 <dgarijo> ... diference between the 3 level and 2 level ???
... diference between the 3 level and 2 level ??? ←
16:25:47 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman#Objects_vs._Things_vs._entities
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman#Objects_vs._Things_vs._entities ←
16:26:44 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
16:26:47 <dgarijo> ... what the alternatives are about this issue
... what the alternatives are about this issue ←
16:27:01 <Zakim> -??P46
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P46 ←
16:27:15 <dgarijo> luc: this could be raised as an issue against the semantics
Luc Moreau: this could be raised as an issue against the semantics ←
16:27:35 <dgarijo> jcheney: will do that
James Cheney: will do that ←
16:27:40 <pgroth> ack satya
Paul Groth: ack satya ←
16:28:20 <dgarijo> satya: Ithink the distinction between entities and real world entities is very important
Satya Sahoo: Ithink the distinction between entities and real world entities is very important ←
16:28:46 <stian> +1 to satua
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 to satua ←
16:28:47 <dgarijo> ... the real world things have no relevance in our context
... the real world things have no relevance in our context ←
16:29:18 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:29:20 <Paolo> @satya: not relevant for the language, but important distinction for the semantics!
Paolo Missier: @satya: not relevant for the language, but important distinction for the semantics! ←
16:29:55 <pgroth> Q?
Paul Groth: Q? ←
16:29:59 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
16:30:00 <Paolo> so "things" are not part of the description, but we are talking about the semantics here, i.e., the interpretaion of the language constructs
Paolo Missier: so "things" are not part of the description, but we are talking about the semantics here, i.e., the interpretaion of the language constructs ←
16:30:13 <dgarijo> luc: From the beggining we made a distinction between the record and the real world thing. Thus it is part of dm
Luc Moreau: From the beggining we made a distinction between the record and the real world thing. Thus it is part of dm ←
16:30:48 <satya> @Paolo: In our context that is any computer science application - there are no real world things
Satya Sahoo: @Paolo: In our context that is any computer science application - there are no real world things ←
16:31:12 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:31:15 <Paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
16:31:24 <pgroth> ack Paolo
Paul Groth: ack Paolo ←
16:31:35 <dgarijo> @satya: what about the provenance of Mona Lisa? That is a real world thing..
@satya: what about the provenance of Mona Lisa? That is a real world thing.. ←
16:32:30 <dgarijo> Paolo: we're not talking about provenance within a specific system.
Paolo Missier: we're not talking about provenance within a specific system. ←
16:32:40 <stian> @dharijo no, you are talking about a characterisaton
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @dharijo no, you are talking about a characterisaton ←
16:32:45 <satya> @Daniel: No, the "Mona Lisa" in any application is a representation/abstraction of the real world thing - the real world thing is never part of any computer science application
Satya Sahoo: @Daniel: No, the "Mona Lisa" in any application is a representation/abstraction of the real world thing - the real world thing is never part of any computer science application ←
16:32:50 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:33:17 <dgarijo> pgroth: maybe we can pick this at the end of the call
Paul Groth: maybe we can pick this at the end of the call ←
16:33:46 <stian> is it the painting? the model?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: is it the painting? the model? ←
16:34:02 <dgarijo> @stian, satya: ok
@stian, satya: ok ←
16:34:33 <stian> (have to go now)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: (have to go now) ←
16:34:35 <dgarijo> luc: will try to catch up with the tracker.
Luc Moreau: will try to catch up with the tracker. ←
16:34:41 <Zakim> - +44.789.470.aaii
Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.789.470.aaii ←
16:35:01 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:35:15 <dgarijo> jcheney: we have to identify where are we going to find this at the time of the f2f (next 2 weeks)
James Cheney: we have to identify where are we going to find this at the time of the f2f (next 2 weeks) ←
16:35:20 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
16:35:43 <Zakim> -??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P30 ←
16:35:51 <dgarijo> ... alternate of, specialization of semantics.
... alternate of, specialization of semantics. ←
16:37:19 <dgarijo> pgroth: when do you like people to read the document?
Paul Groth: when do you like people to read the document? ←
16:37:49 <dgarijo> jcheney: people can look at it now and provide feedback
James Cheney: people can look at it now and provide feedback ←
16:38:01 <Paolo> sorry I have to go...
Paolo Missier: sorry I have to go... ←
16:38:33 <satya> I will review
Satya Sahoo: I will review ←
16:38:34 <dgarijo> pgroth: volunteers?
Paul Groth: volunteers? ←
16:38:52 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:38:52 <pgroth> \
Paul Groth: \ ←
16:38:57 <dgarijo> ... pgroth, satya are volunteers.
... pgroth, satya are volunteers. ←
16:39:20 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
16:39:20 <pgroth> Topic: Accounts in Prov
Summary: Accounts and identifiers are seen as deeply related. The group had a long discussion about what is and what is not being identified in the prov-dm, in particular whether records or entities were being identified or both. The group agreed that it was important to settle this soon to gain a clear understanding. It was agreed that Luc would write up an example and that discussion should continue on the mailing list.
<pgroth> Summary: Accounts and identifiers are seen as deeply related. The group had a long discussion about what is and what is not being identified in the prov-dm, in particular whether records or entities were being identified or both. The group agreed that it was important to settle this soon to gain a clear understanding. It was agreed that Luc would write up an example and that discussion should continue on the mailing list.
16:39:30 <pgroth> ack tlebo
Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←
16:39:42 <dgarijo> tlebo: I haven't had a chance to answer all the people yet
Timothy Lebo: I haven't had a chance to answer all the people yet ←
16:39:44 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
16:39:59 <dgarijo> ... if anibody has something right now it will be ok
... if anibody has something right now it will be ok ←
16:40:02 <pgroth> ack khalidbelhajjame
Paul Groth: ack khalidbelhajjame ←
16:40:22 <dgarijo> khalid: how entities are differentiated in different accounts
Khalid Belhajjame: how entities are differentiated in different accounts ←
16:40:29 <dgarijo> ... ?
... ? ←
16:40:46 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:40:49 <dgarijo> ... it's more a practical point of view.
... it's more a practical point of view. ←
16:41:06 <dgarijo> tim: TRIG syntax is a bit confusing in those examples.
Timothy Lebo: TRIG syntax is a bit confusing in those examples. ←
16:41:43 <dgarijo> ... how can we have this scoped entities without the dcterms:identifiers.
... how can we have this scoped entities without the dcterms:identifiers. ←
16:42:21 <dgarijo> khalid: so you think there could be problems having different entities scoped in different accounts
Khalid Belhajjame: so you think there could be problems having different entities scoped in different accounts ←
16:42:28 <satya> @Tim: +1, also having scoped identifiers (aka URI) is contrary to RDF semantics and global scope of URIs
Satya Sahoo: @Tim: +1, also having scoped identifiers (aka URI) is contrary to RDF semantics and global scope of URIs ←
16:43:09 <dgarijo> khalid: how do I identify an entity across different accounts.
Khalid Belhajjame: how do I identify an entity across different accounts. ←
16:43:24 <dgarijo> Tim. the same URI is mentioned in both named graphs.
Tim. the same URI is mentioned in both named graphs. ←
16:43:34 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:44:10 <dgarijo> ... there is no requirement that the inner accounts have to be mentioned in the outer accounts
... there is no requirement that the inner accounts have to be mentioned in the outer accounts ←
16:44:11 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:44:15 <dgarijo> khalid: thanks
Khalid Belhajjame: thanks ←
16:45:03 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:45:04 <dgarijo> pgroth: are you having problems with ids in dm?
Paul Groth: are you having problems with ids in dm? ←
16:45:18 <dgarijo> tim: maybe I'm misreading ids in dm
Timothy Lebo: maybe I'm misreading ids in dm ←
16:45:30 <dgarijo> luc: your interpretation is ok
Luc Moreau: your interpretation is ok ←
16:45:45 <dgarijo> ... I'm not sure that we have the same understanding of record
... I'm not sure that we have the same understanding of record ←
16:46:56 <dgarijo> tim: in the rdf world a reocrd is a triple or an rdf graph.
Timothy Lebo: in the rdf world a reocrd is a triple or an rdf graph. ←
16:46:57 <satya> @Luc, what are the columns of these tables - Entity, Agent, wasGeneratedBy?
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, what are the columns of these tables - Entity, Agent, wasGeneratedBy? ←
16:47:15 <dgarijo> luc: that would be routed in a specific subject.
Luc Moreau: that would be rooted in a specific subject. ←
16:47:23 <MacTed> s/routed/rooted/
16:48:03 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:48:03 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
16:48:03 <dgarijo> ... if we have an entity Luc in Boston type person type entity, everything would be rooted from that.
... if we have an entity Luc in Boston type person type entity, everything would be rooted from that. ←
16:48:07 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:48:10 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
16:48:10 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
16:48:12 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
16:48:38 <pgroth> ack MacTed
Paul Groth: ack MacTed ←
16:48:50 <dgarijo> MacTed: a record in my mind is a single row in a database. In the rdf world is a triple
Ted Thibodeau: a record in my mind is a single row in a database. In the rdf world is a triple ←
16:49:31 <dgarijo> luc: a record in dm is a set of triples in the rdf context
Luc Moreau: a record in dm is a set of triples in the rdf context ←
16:49:40 <zednik> record
Stephan Zednik: record ←
16:49:41 <zednik> noun |ˈrekərd|
Stephan Zednik: noun |ˈrekərd| ←
16:49:41 <zednik> 1 a thing constituting a piece of evidence about the past, esp. an account of an act or occurrence kept in writing or some other permanent form: identification was made through dental records | a record of meter readings.
Stephan Zednik: 1 a thing constituting a piece of evidence about the past, esp. an account of an act or occurrence kept in writing or some other permanent form: identification was made through dental records | a record of meter readings. ←
16:50:07 <dgarijo> MacTed: so you're changing the understanding of record that is different in many areas.
Ted Thibodeau: so you're changing the understanding of record that is different in many areas. ←
16:50:31 <dgarijo> ... I keep going in circles
... I keep going in circles ←
16:50:53 <dgarijo> ... the common terms are not used according to their common meanings.
... the common terms are not used according to their common meanings. ←
16:50:59 <dgarijo> luc: I disagree
Luc Moreau: I disagree ←
16:51:21 <dgarijo> ... nobody has suggested an alternative to this terms
... nobody has suggested an alternative to this terms ←
16:51:30 <zednik> database terminology is not common term usage
Stephan Zednik: database terminology is not common term usage ←
16:51:52 <pgroth> ack satya
Paul Groth: ack satya ←
16:52:26 <dgarijo> satya: if an entity is mapped to a table, what would be the columns of the table?
Satya Sahoo: if an entity is mapped to a table, what would be the columns of the table? ←
16:52:43 <dgarijo> luc: activity, sart, end, etc.
Luc Moreau: activity, sart, end, etc. ←
16:52:49 <dgarijo> ... (example)
... (example) ←
16:53:13 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/overview.png
Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/overview.png ←
16:53:22 <tlebo> it's sounding like "expression" _was_ a better term (the original "record"). What motivated the rename?
Timothy Lebo: it's sounding like "expression" _was_ a better term (the original "record"). What motivated the rename? ←
16:54:11 <dgarijo> luc: satya, how are you suggesting to express that?
Luc Moreau: satya, how are you suggesting to express that? ←
16:54:15 <MacTed> :LucInBoston :wasWearing :whiteShirt
Ted Thibodeau: :LucInBoston :wasWearing :whiteShirt ←
16:54:27 <dgarijo> satya: Luc in Boston is an entity
Satya Sahoo: Luc in Boston is an entity ←
16:55:11 <tlebo> entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color "white"])
Timothy Lebo: entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color "white"]) ←
16:55:35 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
16:55:40 <dgarijo> satya: discussion about the Luc in Boston entity.
Satya Sahoo: discussion about the Luc in Boston entity. ←
16:55:46 <GK> zakim, ??p3 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p3 is me ←
16:55:46 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
16:55:50 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:55:53 <Zakim> -[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[ISI] ←
16:56:41 <Luc> entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color "white", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
Luc Moreau: entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color "white", :name="Luc", :type="Person"]) ←
16:57:25 <Luc> entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="white", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
Luc Moreau: entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="white", :name="Luc", :type="Person"]) ←
16:57:34 <dgarijo> satya: I was trying to understand what an entity record mean. Luc in Boston has type person would be an entity record
Satya Sahoo: I was trying to understand what an entity record mean. Luc in Boston has type person would be an entity record ←
16:57:49 <dgarijo> Luc: I've extended what tim just posted
Luc Moreau: I've extended what tim just posted ←
16:58:19 <dgarijo> ... you would map this to a series of triples
... you would map this to a series of triples ←
16:58:41 <dgarijo> ... entity record seems to map to a set of triples
... entity record seems to map to a set of triples ←
16:58:54 <dgarijo> satya: this is an example of relational db to rdf
Satya Sahoo: this is an example of relational db to rdf ←
16:59:03 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
16:59:08 <dgarijo> luc: I'm not reinventing the world
Luc Moreau: I'm not reinventing the world ←
16:59:17 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/overview.png
Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/overview.png ←
17:00:08 <dgarijo> luc: I've posted the diagram of the document. That is how it would be recorded in a relational world
Luc Moreau: I've posted the diagram of the document. That is how it would be recorded in a relational world ←
17:00:43 <dgarijo> satya: it is an assertion about luc in boston. It is an important distinction to make
Satya Sahoo: it is an assertion about luc in boston. It is an important distinction to make ←
17:01:20 <tlebo> I'm wondering what motivation we had to rename "expression" to "record".
Timothy Lebo: I'm wondering what motivation we had to rename "expression" to "record". ←
17:01:36 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
17:01:57 <tlebo> +1 to satya pointing out the confusion of identifying the record or the characterized thing
Timothy Lebo: +1 to satya pointing out the confusion of identifying the record or the characterized thing ←
17:02:31 <tlebo> @luc, thanks.
Timothy Lebo: @luc, thanks. ←
17:02:31 <dgarijo> luc: I'd like to explain what pgrotho and pgrothhave been discussing. There are some inconsistencies in dm and we're trying to resolve them.
Luc Moreau: I'd like to explain what pgrotho and pgrothhave been discussing. There are some inconsistencies in dm and we're trying to resolve them. ←
17:02:42 <tlebo> luc: too much "language association" and was inappropriate.
Luc Moreau: too much "language association" and was inappropriate. [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
17:02:44 <MacTed> so, "entity record" is a collection of (one or more) assertions about an entity...
Ted Thibodeau: so, "entity record" is a collection of (one or more) assertions about an entity... ←
17:02:44 <MacTed> (and an "entity record" is an entity in its own right, with assertions about it, etc.)
Ted Thibodeau: (and an "entity record" is an entity in its own right, with assertions about it, etc.) ←
17:03:07 <MacTed> some of the assertions about the "entity record" comprise the provenance of that record
Ted Thibodeau: some of the assertions about the "entity record" comprise the provenance of that record ←
17:03:10 <dgarijo> luc: every record has an id
Luc Moreau: every record has an id ←
17:03:20 <GK> +1 to Satya too (the "record" is artifact of ASN; shouldn't have representation in RDF translation)
Graham Klyne: +1 to Satya too (the "record" is artifact of ASN; shouldn't have representation in RDF translation) ←
17:03:20 <dgarijo> satya: no, every entity has an id
Satya Sahoo: no, every entity has an id ←
17:04:03 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
17:04:25 <GK> What Luc is now describing is artifact of "the relational view" i.e. an implementation detail for *some* implementations.
Graham Klyne: What Luc is now describing is artifact of "the relational view" i.e. an implementation detail for *some* implementations. ←
17:04:43 <dgarijo> tim: let luc describe the problem, and we try to solve it offline
Paul Groth: let luc describe the problem, and we try to solve it offline ←
17:04:58 <dgarijo> luc: coming back what satya was saying
Luc Moreau: coming back what satya was saying ←
17:05:01 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←
17:05:05 <tlebo> s/tim/pgroth/
17:05:23 <dgarijo> ... luc in boston in my view is not the key of the record.
... luc in boston in my view is not the key of the record. ←
17:05:36 <dgarijo> @tlebo: thanks, sorry.
@tlebo: thanks, sorry. ←
17:05:42 <Luc> entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="black", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
Luc Moreau: entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="black", :name="Luc", :type="Person"]) ←
17:06:16 <Luc> entity id + account id = natural key for entity record
Luc Moreau: entity id + account id = natural key for entity record ←
17:06:21 <satya> exactly - so luc_in_boston is key for Entity "Luc in Boston"
Satya Sahoo: exactly - so luc_in_boston is key for Entity "Luc in Boston" ←
17:06:22 <dgarijo> ... luc in boston could have different color of tshirts, but it would be the same entity
... luc in boston could have different color of tshirts, but it would be the same entity ←
17:06:28 <satya> not the record
Satya Sahoo: not the record ←
17:06:32 <tlebo> luc: white and black shirt on same :luc_in_boston
Luc Moreau: white and black shirt on same :luc_in_boston [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
17:07:19 <satya> @Luc, then we need a distinct identifier for the record itself
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, then we need a distinct identifier for the record itself ←
17:07:30 <Luc> entity_reocrd_id001 - entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="black", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
Luc Moreau: entity_reocrd_id001 - entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="black", :name="Luc", :type="Person"]) ←
17:07:52 <dgarijo> ... an approach to this is to have an entity record Id that would be the key for that record. Now I would need an extra column
... an approach to this is to have an entity record Id that would be the key for that record. Now I would need an extra column ←
17:08:08 <satya> @Luc: ok
Satya Sahoo: @Luc: ok ←
17:08:14 <dgarijo> ... if we do that, that's great.
... if we do that, that's great. ←
17:08:15 <dgarijo> ...
... ←
17:08:24 <GK> @satya - isn't the record its own identifier?
Graham Klyne: @satya - isn't the record its own identifier? ←
17:08:25 <dgarijo> ... we can simplify a lot of the text
... we can simplify a lot of the text ←
17:08:25 <tlebo> entity(:luc_in_boston_on_Monday, [shirt_color="black", location=Boston, name="luc", specializationOf=:luc_in_boston_in_July])
Timothy Lebo: entity(:luc_in_boston_on_Monday, [shirt_color="black", location=Boston, name="luc", specializationOf=:luc_in_boston_in_July]) ←
17:08:30 <MacTed> "Named Graph" :-)
Ted Thibodeau: "Named Graph" :-) ←
17:08:34 <tlebo> entity(:luc_in_boston_on_Tuesday, [shirt_color="white", location=Boston, name="luc", specializationOf=:luc_in_boston_in_July])
Timothy Lebo: entity(:luc_in_boston_on_Tuesday, [shirt_color="white", location=Boston, name="luc", specializationOf=:luc_in_boston_in_July]) ←
17:08:43 <Luc> entity id + account id = natural key for entity record
Luc Moreau: entity id + account id = natural key for entity record ←
17:08:46 <dgarijo> ... but from the rdf perspective may not be nice. It would imply new ids
... but from the rdf perspective may not be nice. It would imply new ids ←
17:09:15 <satya> @Luc: the natural key for entity record is something different from key for entity
Satya Sahoo: @Luc: the natural key for entity record is something different from key for entity ←
17:09:27 <tlebo> @luc, but that throws the benefits of URIs out the window (and violates AWWW)
Timothy Lebo: @luc, but that throws the benefits of URIs out the window (and violates AWWW) ←
17:09:36 <satya> @GK: I didn't understand
Satya Sahoo: @GK: I didn't understand ←
17:09:39 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
17:09:39 <GK> I think we are trying to turn ASn "records" into implementation artifacts, when they are explicitly an *abstract* syntax for talking about provenance assertions.
Graham Klyne: I think we are trying to turn ASn "records" into implementation artifacts, when they are explicitly an *abstract* syntax for talking about provenance assertions. ←
17:09:50 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
17:09:51 <MacTed> G-box would give the ontology of the accounts (i.e., the schema of the "entity records")
Ted Thibodeau: G-box would give the ontology of the accounts (i.e., the schema of the "entity records") ←
17:09:51 <MacTed> G-snaps would be the account ("entity record") instances
Ted Thibodeau: G-snaps would be the account ("entity record") instances ←
17:09:51 <MacTed> G-texts are the serializations of those instances
Ted Thibodeau: G-texts are the serializations of those instances ←
17:09:59 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
17:10:03 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
17:10:13 <dgarijo> pgroth: the issue is clear.
Paul Groth: the issue is clear. ←
17:10:46 <dgarijo> tim: trying to respond to Luc about naming the resource within the account.
Timothy Lebo: trying to respond to Luc about naming the resource within the account. ←
17:10:53 <pgroth> ack tlebo
Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←
17:11:05 <dgarijo> luc: luc in Boston is the name of the entity.
Luc Moreau: luc in Boston is the name of the entity. ←
17:11:30 <dgarijo> MacTed: so the entity could have 1 million entities
Ted Thibodeau: so the entity could have 1 million names ←
17:11:40 <dgarijo> ... and be referring to the same thing
... and be referring to the same thing ←
17:11:44 <GK> Why does ASN use URIs anyway?
Graham Klyne: Why does ASN use URIs anyway? ←
17:11:45 <MacTed> s/entities/names/
17:11:56 <MacTed> s/names/URIs, identifiers, names/
17:11:59 <tlebo> q-
Timothy Lebo: q- ←
17:12:38 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
17:13:21 <dgarijo> ... problem on discovering other descriptions of the same entity the first time that I'm going to describe it. How do I know that there are others?
... problem on discovering other descriptions of the same entity the first time that I'm going to describe it. How do I know that there are others? ←
17:13:22 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
17:14:12 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
17:14:51 <dgarijo> luc: the uri luc in boston is not enough to identify the records
Luc Moreau: the uri luc in boston is not enough to identify the records ←
17:15:09 <dgarijo> ... that is why you need to know which account belongs to
... that is why you need to know which account belongs to ←
17:15:11 <tlebo> @luc, then you mistakenly named luc in account 2.
Timothy Lebo: @luc, then you mistakenly named luc in account 2. ←
17:15:45 <Luc> @tlebo, why?
Luc Moreau: @tlebo, why? ←
17:15:47 <tlebo> @luc, you knew that they are different, but named them the same thing.
Timothy Lebo: @luc, you knew that they are different, but named them the same thing. ←
17:15:56 <dgarijo> satya: adding the acocunt id + the record does not make it an ? entity record?
Satya Sahoo: adding the acocunt id + the record does not make it an ? entity record? ←
17:16:18 <Luc> @tlebo, no, it's intentional, I am giving two hypothesis about what luc did
Luc Moreau: @tlebo, no, it's intentional, I am giving two hypothesis about what luc did ←
17:16:20 <dgarijo> luc: raising issues might be the best thing
Luc Moreau: raising issues might be the best thing ←
17:16:32 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
17:16:35 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
17:16:36 <Zakim> -olaf
Zakim IRC Bot: -olaf ←
17:16:37 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
17:16:38 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
17:16:38 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
17:16:39 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
17:16:40 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
17:16:42 <Zakim> -??P31
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P31 ←
17:16:43 <Zakim> - +1.202.223.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.202.223.aabb ←
17:16:46 <Zakim> - +1.443.708.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.443.708.aaaa ←
17:16:59 <Zakim> - +1.518.608.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.608.aagg ←
17:17:02 <Curt> zakim, +1.202.223.aabb is me
Curt Tilmes: zakim, +1.202.223.aabb is me ←
17:17:02 <Zakim> sorry, Curt, I do not recognize a party named '+1.202.223.aabb'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Curt, I do not recognize a party named '+1.202.223.aabb' ←
17:17:09 <Zakim> -??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9 ←
17:17:16 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public ←
17:17:21 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
17:17:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-minutes.html pgroth
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-minutes.html pgroth ←
17:17:21 <Zakim> -GK
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK ←
17:17:25 <pgroth> trackbot, end telecon
Paul Groth: trackbot, end telecon ←
17:17:25 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
17:17:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.443.708.aaaa, [IPcaller], Luc, +1.202.223.aabb, MacTed, Satya_Sahoo, tlebo, jcheney, sandro, khalidbelhajjame, +49.302.093.aacc, olaf,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been +1.443.708.aaaa, [IPcaller], Luc, +1.202.223.aabb, MacTed, Satya_Sahoo, tlebo, jcheney, sandro, khalidbelhajjame, +49.302.093.aacc, olaf, ←
17:17:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
17:17:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
17:17:28 <Zakim> ... [ISI], +1.518.633.aadd, +44.789.470.aaee, SamCoppens, +1.518.608.aagg, +44.789.470.aahh, +44.789.470.aaii, GK
Zakim IRC Bot: ... [ISI], +1.518.633.aadd, +44.789.470.aaee, SamCoppens, +1.518.608.aagg, +44.789.470.aahh, +44.789.470.aaii, GK ←
17:17:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
17:17:29 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-actions.rdf : ←
17:17:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Satya to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm [1]
ACTION: Satya to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm [1] ←
17:17:29 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-irc#T16-15-32
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-irc#T16-15-32 ←
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