IRC log of prov on 2012-01-12
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:00:15 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #prov
- 16:00:16 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-irc
- 16:00:16 [Luc]
- are you back?
- 16:00:17 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 16:00:19 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 16:00:20 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
- 16:00:20 [trackbot]
- Date: 12 January 2012
- 16:00:24 [pgroth]
- Zakim, this will be prove
- 16:00:25 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #prov
- 16:00:30 [pgroth]
- Zakim, this will be PROV
- 16:00:30 [jun]
- Yes! Glad to be back! First week back at work!
- 16:00:35 [Zakim]
- ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
- 16:00:38 [pgroth]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.12
- 16:00:39 [Luc]
- congratulations!
- 16:00:39 [dgarijo]
- Hi Jun!
- 16:00:48 [pgroth]
- Chair: Paul Groth
- 16:00:53 [Luc]
- only a few thousand messages to catch up with ;-)
- 16:00:53 [jun]
- @luc: thanks
- 16:01:03 [Zakim]
- +OpenLink_Software
- 16:01:05 [MacTed]
- Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
- 16:01:05 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 16:01:06 [jun]
- @luc, yep:)
- 16:01:11 [pgroth]
- Zakim, make logs public
- 16:01:19 [pgroth]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 16:01:30 [pgroth]
- scribe?
- 16:01:40 [satya]
- I can scribe
- 16:01:41 [Zakim]
- +MacTed; got it
- 16:01:45 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 16:01:48 [pgroth]
- Scribe: Daniel
- 16:01:49 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'make logs public', pgroth
- 16:01:53 [pgroth]
- Scribe Daniel Garijo
- 16:02:01 [dgarijo]
- although I have a bad sound quality today :(
- 16:02:03 [Zakim]
- +Satya_Sahoo
- 16:02:03 [tlebo]
- tlebo has joined #prov
- 16:02:10 [pgroth]
- Topic: Admin
- 16:02:23 [Zakim]
- +??P18
- 16:02:59 [khalidbelhajjame]
- khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
- 16:03:01 [Zakim]
- +tlebo
- 16:03:09 [dgarijo]
- Paul: as usual, vote on the minutes of last week
- 16:03:12 [pgroth]
- Minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-01-05
- 16:03:14 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 16:03:15 [satya]
- +1
- 16:03:20 [jcheney]
- +1
- 16:03:22 [olaf]
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- 16:03:23 [jun]
- +1
- 16:03:23 [tlebo]
- +1
- 16:03:23 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +1
- 16:03:26 [Curt]
- +1
- 16:03:31 [Paolo]
- +1
- 16:03:39 [MikeLang]
- +1
- 16:03:43 [jcheney]
- zakim, ??P18 is me
- 16:03:51 [pgroth]
- Accepted Minutes January 5 2012
- 16:04:05 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
- 16:04:06 [dgarijo]
- Paul: review of actions items
- 16:04:21 [Zakim]
- +jcheney; got it
- 16:04:26 [dgarijo]
- ... 1) Action on Paul to write a blog on overview
- 16:04:40 [dgarijo]
- ... about the PROV activities
- 16:04:45 [zednik]
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- 16:04:47 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/01/11/feedback-welcome-an-overview-of-the-provenance-prov-family-of-specs/
- 16:05:04 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.aa]
- 16:05:04 [dcorsar]
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- 16:05:11 [khalidbelhajjame]
- zakim, IPcaller.aa is me
- 16:05:27 [Zakim]
- +sandro
- 16:05:34 [Zakim]
- +khalidbelhajjame; got it
- 16:05:39 [Zakim]
- + +49.302.093.aacc
- 16:05:43 [Zakim]
- +??P46
- 16:05:45 [dgarijo]
- ... Luc had an action item to write a blog post with the diffs
- 16:05:57 [dgarijo]
- ... Satya had an action to look at a number of issues
- 16:06:12 [olaf]
- zakim, aacc is me
- 16:06:14 [dgarijo]
- Satya: I have been working on it
- 16:06:23 [Zakim]
- +olaf; got it
- 16:06:57 [dgarijo]
- Paul: please sign on the f2f page so I can make the appropriate arrangements
- 16:07:03 [dgarijo]
- ... we need scribes
- 16:07:14 [pgroth]
- Topic: Prov-AQ changes
- 16:08:10 [pgroth]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/prov-aq.html
- 16:08:29 [dgarijo]
- ... gk tried to address a number of issues
- 16:08:52 [dgarijo]
- ... made a review and a bunch of editorial clarifications
- 16:08:57 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5
- 16:09:04 [Zakim]
- +[ISI]
- 16:09:18 [Zakim]
- + +1.518.633.aadd
- 16:09:33 [YolandaGil]
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- 16:09:43 [dgarijo]
- ... question about xml examples. Do we want them? where should they come in?
- 16:09:51 [SamCoppens]
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- 16:10:33 [dgarijo]
- ... ??? suggested pingback to know when the provenance has been recorded
- 16:10:41 [Zakim]
- + +44.789.470.aaee
- 16:10:52 [pgroth]
- +q
- 16:10:55 [pgroth]
- ack pgroth
- 16:10:57 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:10:59 [dgarijo]
- ... paul has to still to review the changes to see if completely agrees with it
- 16:11:22 [Zakim]
- + +329331aaff
- 16:11:25 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:11:44 [pgroth]
- prov-dm
- 16:11:52 [pgroth]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm
- 16:11:57 [dgarijo]
- ... update on issues in prov-dm
- 16:12:06 [SamCoppens]
- zakim, +329331aaff is me
- 16:12:06 [Zakim]
- +SamCoppens; got it
- 16:12:07 [AndroUser]
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- 16:12:17 [dgarijo]
- ... most of the issues have been raised/resolved.
- 16:12:18 [Zakim]
- + +1.518.608.aagg
- 16:12:35 [Zakim]
- - +44.789.470.aaee
- 16:12:45 [Deborah]
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- 16:12:48 [dgarijo]
- Luc: we have to group the issues. 105 is still open.
- 16:13:03 [dgarijo]
- ... will follow up a response
- 16:13:15 [Zakim]
- + +44.789.470.aahh
- 16:13:52 [satya]
- @Luc, yes I am now reviewing the updates in DM and will respond to these issues soon
- 16:13:53 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:13:59 [dgarijo]
- ... tomorrow morning will start another pass on the document to prepare it for review by the next telecon
- 16:14:08 [Luc]
- @satya, thanks
- 16:14:08 [dgarijo]
- ... please satya review the pending issues
- 16:14:09 [Zakim]
- - +44.789.470.aahh
- 16:14:21 [AndroUser]
- zakim, +44.789.470.aahh is me
- 16:14:21 [Zakim]
- sorry, AndroUser, I do not recognize a party named '+44.789.470.aahh'
- 16:14:22 [dgarijo]
- satya: ok
- 16:14:41 [DeborahM]
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- 16:14:52 [dgarijo]
- paul: are this already in your action?
- 16:15:09 [dgarijo]
- Luc: no. That action is from several weeks ago
- 16:15:20 [AndroUser]
- the "vacant" conference bridge is fighting me
- 16:15:20 [dgarijo]
- paul: satya, replace the action with a new one.
- 16:15:32 [pgroth]
- Action: Satya to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm
- 16:15:32 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-52 - Address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm [on Satya Sahoo - due 2012-01-19].
- 16:15:44 [pgroth]
- Topic: prov-o
- 16:16:02 [satya]
- Meeting minutes from last PROV-O call: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-01-09
- 16:16:07 [Zakim]
- + +44.789.470.aaii
- 16:16:38 [dgarijo]
- satya: dgarijo has created a list of issues, and we have been resolving them
- 16:16:53 [dgarijo]
- ... still have 3 main bullets to complete the list.
- 16:17:12 [dgarijo]
- ... we have been recording the changes to make in the doc
- 16:17:27 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:17:34 [dgarijo]
- ... some issues have been raised.
- 16:17:56 [Luc]
- can you indicate what requires discussion with dm?
- 16:18:02 [dgarijo]
- +q
- 16:18:16 [pgroth]
- ack dgarijo
- 16:18:21 [Luc]
- q+
- 16:18:33 [pgroth]
- ack luc
- 16:18:49 [dgarijo]
- satya: you'll see the changes to the html doc soon (next telecon)
- 16:19:15 [dgarijo]
- Luc: can you identify what are the issues to be discused within dm?
- 16:19:15 [satya]
- Meeting minutes PROV_O: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2011-12-29
- 16:19:53 [tlebo]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2012-01-04#Did_not_get_to_in_this_telecon ?
- 16:20:02 [dgarijo]
- satya: some concerns about making wasStartedBy and wasEndedBy subclasses of wasAssociatedWith
- 16:20:41 [dgarijo]
- Stephan: some classes seem to be modeling things with different semantics. Also actedOnBehalfOf
- 16:21:42 [dgarijo]
- luc: some of the issues could be raised as issues against prov-o
- 16:22:20 [dgarijo]
- luc: none of the editors will be at f2f
- 16:22:49 [khalidbelhajjame]
- I ll be there
- 16:22:51 [tlebo]
- I'll be calling in to F2F2.
- 16:22:53 [dgarijo]
- satya: some of the authors are going to attend: Daniel, Stian, Khalid
- 16:22:56 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:22:57 [AndroUser]
- not tim?
- 16:23:38 [dgarijo]
- paul: so, in summary, you will be raising issues against dm soon.
- 16:23:42 [dgarijo]
- satya: yes
- 16:23:50 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:24:08 [jcheney]
- www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman
- 16:24:10 [pgroth]
- Topic: Prov-Semantics
- 16:24:29 [dgarijo]
- jcheney: I've been updating what's there
- 16:24:43 [dgarijo]
- ... answered some emails
- 16:25:31 [dgarijo]
- ... diference between the 3 level and 2 level ???
- 16:25:47 [jcheney]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman#Objects_vs._Things_vs._entities
- 16:26:44 [satya]
- q+
- 16:26:47 [dgarijo]
- ... what the alternatives are about this issue
- 16:27:01 [Zakim]
- -??P46
- 16:27:15 [dgarijo]
- luc: this could be raised as an issue against the semantics
- 16:27:35 [dgarijo]
- jcheney: will do that
- 16:27:40 [pgroth]
- ack satya
- 16:28:20 [dgarijo]
- satya: Ithink the distinction between entities and real world entities is very important
- 16:28:46 [stian]
- +1 to satua
- 16:28:47 [dgarijo]
- ... the real world things have no relevance in our context
- 16:29:18 [Luc]
- q+
- 16:29:20 [Paolo]
- @satya: not relevant for the language, but important distinction for the semantics!
- 16:29:55 [pgroth]
- Q?
- 16:29:59 [pgroth]
- ack Luc
- 16:30:00 [Paolo]
- so "things" are not part of the description, but we are talking about the semantics here, i.e., the interpretaion of the language constructs
- 16:30:13 [dgarijo]
- luc: From the beggining we made a distinction between the record and the real world thing. Thus it is part of dm
- 16:30:48 [satya]
- @Paolo: In our context that is any computer science application - there are no real world things
- 16:31:12 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:31:15 [Paolo]
- q+
- 16:31:24 [pgroth]
- ack Paolo
- 16:31:35 [dgarijo]
- @satya: what about the provenance of Mona Lisa? That is a real world thing..
- 16:32:30 [dgarijo]
- Paolo: we're not talking about provenance within a specific system.
- 16:32:40 [stian]
- @dharijo no, you are talking about a characterisaton
- 16:32:45 [satya]
- @Daniel: No, the "Mona Lisa" in any application is a representation/abstraction of the real world thing - the real world thing is never part of any computer science application
- 16:32:50 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:33:17 [dgarijo]
- paul: maybe we can pick this at the end of the call
- 16:33:46 [stian]
- is it the painting? the model?
- 16:34:02 [dgarijo]
- @stian, satya: ok
- 16:34:33 [stian]
- (have to go now)
- 16:34:35 [dgarijo]
- luc: will try to catch up with the tracker.
- 16:34:41 [Zakim]
- - +44.789.470.aaii
- 16:35:01 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:35:15 [dgarijo]
- jcheney: we have to identify where are we going to find this at the time of the f2f (next 2 weeks)
- 16:35:20 [Zakim]
- -sandro
- 16:35:43 [Zakim]
- -??P30
- 16:35:51 [dgarijo]
- ... alternate of, specialization of semantics.
- 16:37:19 [dgarijo]
- paul: when do you like people to read the document?
- 16:37:49 [dgarijo]
- jcheney: people can look at it now and provide feedback
- 16:38:01 [Paolo]
- sorry I have to go...
- 16:38:33 [satya]
- I will review
- 16:38:34 [dgarijo]
- pgroth: volunteers?
- 16:38:52 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:38:52 [pgroth]
- \
- 16:38:57 [dgarijo]
- ... paul, satya are volunteers.
- 16:39:20 [tlebo]
- q+
- 16:39:20 [pgroth]
- Topic: Accounts in Prov
- 16:39:30 [pgroth]
- ack tlebo
- 16:39:42 [dgarijo]
- tlebo: I haven't had a chance to answer all the people yet
- 16:39:44 [khalidbelhajjame]
- +q
- 16:39:59 [dgarijo]
- ... if anibody has something right now it will be ok
- 16:40:02 [pgroth]
- ack khalidbelhajjame
- 16:40:22 [dgarijo]
- khalid: how entities are differentiated in different accounts
- 16:40:29 [dgarijo]
- ... ?
- 16:40:46 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:40:49 [dgarijo]
- ... it's more a practical point of view.
- 16:41:06 [dgarijo]
- tim: TRIG syntax is a bit confusing in those examples.
- 16:41:43 [dgarijo]
- ... how can we have this scoped entities without the dcterms:identifiers.
- 16:42:21 [dgarijo]
- khalid: so you think there could be problems having different entities scoped in different accounts
- 16:42:28 [satya]
- @Tim: +1, also having scoped identifiers (aka URI) is contrary to RDF semantics and global scope of URIs
- 16:43:09 [dgarijo]
- khalid: how do I identify an entity across different accounts.
- 16:43:24 [dgarijo]
- Tim. the same URI is mentioned in both named graphs.
- 16:43:34 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:44:10 [dgarijo]
- ... there is no requirement that the inner accounts have to be mentioned in the outer accounts
- 16:44:11 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:44:15 [dgarijo]
- khalid: thanks
- 16:45:03 [Luc]
- q+
- 16:45:04 [dgarijo]
- paul: are you having problems with ids in dm?
- 16:45:18 [dgarijo]
- tim: maybe I'm misreading ids in dm
- 16:45:30 [dgarijo]
- luc: your interpretation is ok
- 16:45:45 [dgarijo]
- ... I'm not sure that we have the same understanding of record
- 16:46:56 [dgarijo]
- tim: in the rdf world a reocrd is a triple or an rdf graph.
- 16:46:57 [satya]
- @Luc, what are the columns of these tables - Entity, Agent, wasGeneratedBy?
- 16:47:15 [dgarijo]
- luc: that would be routed in a specific subject.
- 16:47:23 [MacTed]
- s/routed/rooted/
- 16:47:32 [stian]
- stian has joined #prov
- 16:48:03 [MacTed]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 16:48:03 [Zakim]
- MacTed should no longer be muted
- 16:48:03 [dgarijo]
- ... if we have an entity Luc in Boston type person type entity, everything would be rooted from that.
- 16:48:07 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:48:10 [pgroth]
- ack Luc
- 16:48:10 [satya]
- q+
- 16:48:12 [MacTed]
- q+
- 16:48:38 [pgroth]
- ack MacTed
- 16:48:50 [dgarijo]
- MacTed: a record in my mind is a single row in a database. In the rdf world is a triple
- 16:49:31 [dgarijo]
- luc: a record in dm is a set of triples in the rdf context
- 16:49:40 [zednik]
- record
- 16:49:41 [zednik]
- noun |ˈrekərd|
- 16:49:41 [zednik]
- 1 a thing constituting a piece of evidence about the past, esp. an account of an act or occurrence kept in writing or some other permanent form: identification was made through dental records | a record of meter readings.
- 16:50:07 [dgarijo]
- MacTed: so you're changing the understanding of record that is different in many areas.
- 16:50:31 [dgarijo]
- ... I keep going in circles
- 16:50:53 [dgarijo]
- ... the common terms are not used according to their common meanings.
- 16:50:59 [dgarijo]
- luc: I disagree
- 16:51:21 [dgarijo]
- ... nobody has suggested an alternative to this terms
- 16:51:30 [zednik]
- database terminology is not common term usage
- 16:51:52 [pgroth]
- ack satya
- 16:52:26 [dgarijo]
- satya: if an entity is mapped to a table, what would be the columns of the table?
- 16:52:43 [dgarijo]
- luc: activity, sart, end, etc.
- 16:52:49 [dgarijo]
- ... (example)
- 16:53:13 [Luc]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/overview.png
- 16:53:20 [GK]
- GK has joined #prov
- 16:53:22 [tlebo]
- it's sounding like "expression" _was_ a better term (the original "record"). What motivated the rename?
- 16:54:11 [dgarijo]
- luc: satya, how are you suggesting to express that?
- 16:54:15 [MacTed]
- :LucInBoston :wasWearing :whiteShirt
- 16:54:27 [dgarijo]
- satya: Luc in Boston is an entity
- 16:55:11 [tlebo]
- entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color "white"])
- 16:55:35 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 16:55:40 [dgarijo]
- satya: discussion about the Luc in Boston entity.
- 16:55:46 [GK]
- zakim, ??p3 is me
- 16:55:46 [Zakim]
- +GK; got it
- 16:55:50 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:55:53 [Zakim]
- -[ISI]
- 16:56:41 [Luc]
- entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color "white", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
- 16:57:25 [Luc]
- entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="white", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
- 16:57:34 [dgarijo]
- satya: I was trying to understand what an entity record mean. Luc in Boston has type person would be an entity record
- 16:57:49 [dgarijo]
- Luc: I've extended what tim just posted
- 16:58:19 [dgarijo]
- ... you would map this to a series of triples
- 16:58:41 [dgarijo]
- ... entity record seems to map to a set of triples
- 16:58:54 [dgarijo]
- satya: this is an example of relational db to rdf
- 16:59:03 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:59:08 [dgarijo]
- luc: I'm not reinventing the world
- 16:59:17 [Luc]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/overview.png
- 17:00:08 [dgarijo]
- luc: I've posted the diagram of the document. That is how it would be recorded in a relational world
- 17:00:43 [dgarijo]
- satya: it is an assertion about luc in boston. It is an important distinction to make
- 17:01:20 [tlebo]
- I'm wondering what motivation we had to rename "expression" to "record".
- 17:01:36 [pgroth]
- q?
- 17:01:57 [tlebo]
- +1 to satya pointing out the confusion of identifying the record or the characterized thing
- 17:02:31 [tlebo]
- @luc, thanks.
- 17:02:31 [dgarijo]
- luc: I'd like to explain what paulo and paul have been discussing. There are some inconsistencies in dm and we're trying to resolve them.
- 17:02:42 [tlebo]
- luc: too much "language association" and was inappropriate.
- 17:02:44 [MacTed]
- so, "entity record" is a collection of (one or more) assertions about an entity...
- 17:02:44 [MacTed]
- (and an "entity record" is an entity in its own right, with assertions about it, etc.)
- 17:03:07 [MacTed]
- some of the assertions about the "entity record" comprise the provenance of that record
- 17:03:10 [dgarijo]
- luc: every record has an id
- 17:03:20 [GK]
- +1 to Satya too (the "record" is artifact of ASN; shouldn't have representation in RDF translation)
- 17:03:20 [dgarijo]
- satya: no, every entity has an id
- 17:04:03 [pgroth]
- q?
- 17:04:25 [GK]
- What Luc is now describing is artifact of "the relational view" i.e. an implementation detail for *some* implementations.
- 17:04:43 [dgarijo]
- tim: let luc describe the problem, and we try to solve it offline
- 17:04:58 [dgarijo]
- luc: coming back what satya was saying
- 17:05:01 [Zakim]
- -SamCoppens
- 17:05:05 [tlebo]
- s/tim/paul/
- 17:05:23 [dgarijo]
- ... luc in boston in my view is not the key of the record.
- 17:05:36 [dgarijo]
- @tlebo: thanks, sorry.
- 17:05:42 [Luc]
- entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="black", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
- 17:06:16 [Luc]
- entity id + account id = natural key for entity record
- 17:06:21 [satya]
- exactly - so luc_in_boston is key for Entity "Luc in Boston"
- 17:06:22 [dgarijo]
- ... luc in boston could have different color of tshirts, but it would be the same entity
- 17:06:28 [satya]
- not the record
- 17:06:32 [tlebo]
- luc: white and black shirt on same :luc_in_boston
- 17:06:36 [Curt]
- Curt has joined #prov
- 17:07:19 [satya]
- @Luc, then we need a distinct identifier for the record itself
- 17:07:30 [Luc]
- entity_reocrd_id001: entity(:luc_in_boston, [:shirt_color="black", :name="Luc", :type="Person"])
- 17:07:52 [dgarijo]
- ... an approach to this is to have an entity record Id that would be the key for that record. Now I would need an extra column
- 17:08:08 [satya]
- @Luc: ok
- 17:08:14 [dgarijo]
- ... if we do that, that's great.
- 17:08:15 [dgarijo]
- ...
- 17:08:24 [GK]
- @satya - isn't the record its own identifier?
- 17:08:25 [dgarijo]
- ... we can simplify a lot of the text
- 17:08:25 [tlebo]
- entity(:luc_in_boston_on_Monday, [shirt_color="black", location=Boston, name="luc", specializationOf=:luc_in_boston_in_July])
- 17:08:30 [MacTed]
- "Named Graph" :-)
- 17:08:34 [tlebo]
- entity(:luc_in_boston_on_Tuesday, [shirt_color="white", location=Boston, name="luc", specializationOf=:luc_in_boston_in_July])
- 17:08:43 [Luc]
- entity id + account id = natural key for entity record
- 17:08:46 [dgarijo]
- ... but from the rdf perspective may not be nice. It would imply new ids
- 17:09:15 [satya]
- @Luc: the natural key for entity record is something different from key for entity
- 17:09:27 [tlebo]
- @luc, but that throws the benefits of URIs out the window (and violates AWWW)
- 17:09:36 [satya]
- @GK: I didn't understand
- 17:09:39 [pgroth]
- q?
- 17:09:39 [GK]
- I think we are trying to turn ASn "records" into implementation artifacts, when they are explicitly an *abstract* syntax for talking about provenance assertions.
- 17:09:50 [pgroth]
- q?
- 17:09:51 [MacTed]
- G-box would give the ontology of the accounts (i.e., the schema of the "entity records")
- 17:09:51 [MacTed]
- G-snaps would be the account ("entity record") instances
- 17:09:51 [MacTed]
- G-texts are the serializations of those instances
- 17:09:59 [Luc]
- q?
- 17:10:03 [tlebo]
- q+
- 17:10:13 [dgarijo]
- paul: the issue is clear.
- 17:10:46 [dgarijo]
- tim: trying to respond to Luc about naming the resource within the account.
- 17:10:53 [pgroth]
- ack tlebo
- 17:11:05 [dgarijo]
- luc: luc in Boston is the name of the entity.
- 17:11:30 [dgarijo]
- MacTed: so the entity could have 1 million entities
- 17:11:40 [dgarijo]
- ... and be referring to the same thing
- 17:11:44 [GK]
- Why does ASN use URIs anyway?
- 17:11:45 [MacTed]
- s/entities/names/
- 17:11:56 [MacTed]
- s/names/URIs, identifiers, names/
- 17:11:59 [tlebo]
- q-
- 17:12:38 [pgroth]
- q?
- 17:13:21 [dgarijo]
- ... problem on discovering other descriptions of the same entity the first time that I'm going to describe it. How do I know that there are others?
- 17:13:22 [pgroth]
- q?
- 17:14:12 [pgroth]
- q?
- 17:14:51 [dgarijo]
- luc: the uri luc in boston is not enough to identify the records
- 17:15:09 [dgarijo]
- ... that is why you need to know which account belongs to
- 17:15:11 [tlebo]
- @luc, then you mistakenly named luc in account 2.
- 17:15:45 [Luc]
- @tlebo, why?
- 17:15:47 [tlebo]
- @luc, you knew that they are different, but named them the same thing.
- 17:15:56 [dgarijo]
- satya: adding the acocunt id + the record does not make it an ? entity record?
- 17:16:18 [Luc]
- @tlebo, no, it's intentional, I am giving two hypothesis about what luc did
- 17:16:20 [dgarijo]
- luc: raising issues might be the best thing
- 17:16:32 [Zakim]
- -tlebo
- 17:16:35 [Zakim]
- -Satya_Sahoo
- 17:16:36 [Zakim]
- -olaf
- 17:16:37 [Zakim]
- -khalidbelhajjame
- 17:16:38 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 17:16:38 [Zakim]
- -MacTed
- 17:16:39 [Zakim]
- -jcheney
- 17:16:40 [Zakim]
- -Luc
- 17:16:42 [Zakim]
- -??P31
- 17:16:43 [Zakim]
- - +1.202.223.aabb
- 17:16:46 [Zakim]
- - +1.443.708.aaaa
- 17:16:59 [Zakim]
- - +1.518.608.aagg
- 17:17:02 [Curt]
- zakim, +1.202.223.aabb is me
- 17:17:02 [Zakim]
- sorry, Curt, I do not recognize a party named '+1.202.223.aabb'
- 17:17:09 [Zakim]
- -??P9
- 17:17:16 [pgroth]
- rrsagent, set log public
- 17:17:21 [pgroth]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:17:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-minutes.html pgroth
- 17:17:21 [Zakim]
- -GK
- 17:17:25 [pgroth]
- trackbot, end telecon
- 17:17:25 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 17:17:25 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been +1.443.708.aaaa, [IPcaller], Luc, +1.202.223.aabb, MacTed, Satya_Sahoo, tlebo, jcheney, sandro, khalidbelhajjame, +49.302.093.aacc, olaf,
- 17:17:28 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 17:17:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-minutes.html trackbot
- 17:17:28 [Zakim]
- ... [ISI], +1.518.633.aadd, +44.789.470.aaee, SamCoppens, +1.518.608.aagg, +44.789.470.aahh, +44.789.470.aaii, GK
- 17:17:29 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 17:17:29 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-actions.rdf :
- 17:17:29 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Satya to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm [1]
- 17:17:29 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/12-prov-irc#T16-15-32