The last minutes were accepted, active Wiki topics are now linked from the front page, invited expert issues are still being resolved by the W3C, and all are encouraged to sign up to be scribes for future meetings.
We will use the current example to start model discussions, but can continue to comment on it on the mailing list, and will extend it when we find it cannot illustrate an important concept.
Provenance access and query task force
The Provenance Access and Query Task Force will start from the incubator group report for developing a draft architecture. We will not design a query language, but will say how existing query languages/models work with the architecture.
We will have a Wiki page per concept and use the issue tracker to discuss definitions. Definitions will be informal and grounded with the example.
14:45:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-irc ←
14:45:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:45:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:45:06 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:45:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:45:07 <trackbot> Date: 19 May 2011
14:45:17 <luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:45:17 <Zakim> ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes ←
14:45:40 <luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.19
14:45:55 <luc> Chair: Paul Groth
14:46:08 <luc> Scribe: smiles
(Scribe set to Simon Miles)
14:46:22 <luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:47:38 <luc> Regrets: Kai Eckert
14:51:15 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:51:17 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
14:51:28 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P12 is pgroth
Paul Groth: Zakim, ??P12 is pgroth ←
14:51:28 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
14:51:37 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:51:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth ←
14:52:45 <Zakim> +luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +luc ←
14:52:47 <Zakim> -luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -luc ←
14:52:47 <Zakim> +luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +luc ←
14:53:42 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
14:53:55 <smiles> zakim, ??P21 is me
zakim, ??P21 is me ←
14:53:55 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it ←
14:57:20 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaaa ←
14:57:50 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
14:58:06 <Zakim> +DavidSchaengold
Zakim IRC Bot: +DavidSchaengold ←
14:58:30 <tlebo> What command do I use to associate my irc handle to my phone?
Timothy Lebo: What command do I use to associate my irc handle to my phone? ←
14:58:39 <Zakim> +??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30 ←
14:58:44 <pgroth> \me Zakim blah is blah
Paul Groth: \me Zakim blah is blah ←
14:59:13 <Zakim> + +1.858.210.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.858.210.aabb ←
14:59:15 <jorn> Zakim: ??P30 is me
14:59:23 <tlebo> \me Zakim P22 is tlebo
Timothy Lebo: \me Zakim P22 is tlebo ←
14:59:26 <Zakim> +??P35
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35 ←
14:59:32 <tlebo> Zakim P22 is tlebo
Timothy Lebo: Zakim P22 is tlebo ←
14:59:49 <jorn> Zakim, ??P30 is me
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??P30 is me ←
14:59:49 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
14:59:50 <tlebo> Zakim, ??P22 is tlebo
Timothy Lebo: Zakim, ??P22 is tlebo ←
14:59:50 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
14:59:50 <Zakim> + +1.805.893.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.805.893.aacc ←
14:59:52 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
15:00:12 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P37 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P37 is me ←
15:00:12 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
15:00:17 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:00:45 <Zakim> +SatyaSahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +SatyaSahoo ←
15:00:53 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:00:54 <pgroth> Zakim, who's there?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who's there? ←
15:00:54 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, pgroth.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, pgroth. ←
15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
15:01:03 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (28%)
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (28%) ←
15:01:28 <Zakim> +paolo_
Zakim IRC Bot: +paolo_ ←
15:01:34 <Zakim> +olaf
Zakim IRC Bot: +olaf ←
15:01:51 <luc> Guest: Paolo (paolo_) Missier
15:01:54 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aadd ←
15:02:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:02:14 <luc> Guest: Satya Sahoo
15:02:18 <pgroth> Zakim, who's on the call?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who's on the call? ←
15:02:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←
15:02:22 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aadd, [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, [IPcaller] ←
15:02:26 <Zakim> +Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh ←
15:02:32 <luc> Guest: Yogesh Simmhan
15:02:35 <jun> zakim, [IPcaller] is jun
Jun Zhao: zakim, [IPcaller] is jun ←
15:02:36 <Zakim> +??P40
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P40 ←
15:02:40 <Zakim> +jun; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it ←
15:02:43 <jcheney> Zakim, ??P40 is me
James Cheney: Zakim, ??P40 is me ←
15:02:51 <pgroth> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:02:53 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
15:02:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←
15:03:03 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney ←
15:03:04 <frew> I am +1.805.893.aacc
James Frew: I am +1.805.893.aacc ←
15:03:06 <Zakim> +??P42
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P42 ←
15:03:31 <zednik> I am +1.518.633.aadd
Stephan Zednik: I am +1.518.633.aadd ←
15:03:40 <dgarijo> Zakim, 1.805.893.aacc is frew
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, 1.805.893.aacc is frew ←
15:03:40 <Zakim> sorry, dgarijo, I do not recognize a party named '1.805.893.aacc'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dgarijo, I do not recognize a party named '1.805.893.aacc' ←
15:03:45 <Zakim> +??P44
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P44 ←
15:03:54 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:03:56 <Christine> Hi. Sorry everyone. I'm not sure how to assign myself. Calling using VOIP. (Thanks Luc, you did send instructions.)
Christine Runnegar: Hi. Sorry everyone. I'm not sure how to assign myself. Calling using VOIP. (Thanks Luc, you did send instructions.) ←
15:04:11 <pgroth> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:04:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←
15:04:14 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, ??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, ??P8 ←
15:04:14 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P8 is really me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P8 is really me ←
15:04:14 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
15:04:54 <pgroth> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:04:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←
15:04:58 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame ←
15:05:00 <frew> +q
James Frew: +q ←
15:05:39 <jorn> zakim, aad is zednik
Jörn Hees: zakim, aad is zednik ←
15:05:39 <Zakim> sorry, jorn, I do not recognize a party named 'aad'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, jorn, I do not recognize a party named 'aad' ←
15:05:40 <dgarijo> \me Type: "Zakim, <YOUR id> is me"
Daniel Garijo: \me Type: "Zakim, <YOUR id> is me" ←
15:05:45 <jorn> zakim, aadd is zednik
Jörn Hees: zakim, aadd is zednik ←
15:05:45 <Zakim> +zednik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zednik; got it ←
15:05:54 <pgroth> Zakim, who's on the phone
Paul Groth: Zakim, who's on the phone ←
15:05:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's on the phone', pgroth ←
15:06:01 <jorn> zakim, aacc is frew
Jörn Hees: zakim, aacc is frew ←
15:06:01 <Zakim> +frew; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +frew; got it ←
15:06:04 <pgroth> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:06:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun, ←
15:06:09 <Zakim> ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame ←
15:06:21 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.19
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.19 ←
15:06:21 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
15:06:27 <frew> zakim, frew is +1-805-893-7356
James Frew: zakim, frew is +1-805-893-7356 ←
15:06:27 <Zakim> ++1-805-893-7356; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: ++1-805-893-7356; got it ←
15:06:37 <smiles> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.19
15:06:46 <Zakim> +Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda ←
15:06:52 <CarlOGC> zakim skype carl.n.reed CarlOGC
Carl Reed: zakim skype carl.n.reed CarlOGC ←
15:06:57 <GK> +??P44
Graham Klyne: +??P44 ←
15:07:01 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-05-12
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-05-12 ←
15:07:01 <luc> Guest: Yolanda Gil
15:07:01 <smiles> TOPIC: Admin
Summary: The last minutes were accepted, active Wiki topics are now linked from the front page, invited expert issues are still being resolved by the W3C, and all are encouraged to sign up to be scribes for future meetings.
15:07:01 <smiles> SUMMARY: The last minutes were accepted, active Wiki topics are now linked from the front page, invited expert issues are still being resolved by the W3C, and all are encouraged to sign up to be scribes for future meetings.
15:07:02 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Last week's minutes
15:07:13 <pgroth> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 12 May telecon
PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 12 May telecon ←
15:07:20 <simoninireland> +1
Simon Dobson: +1 ←
15:07:21 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:07:21 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:07:22 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:07:23 <DavidSchaengold> +1
david schaengold: +1 ←
15:07:23 <smiles> +1
+1 ←
15:07:23 <SamCoppens> zakim, +??44 is SamCoppens
Sam Coppens: zakim, +??44 is SamCoppens ←
15:07:23 <Zakim> sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '+??44'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '+??44' ←
15:07:24 <frew> +1
James Frew: +1 ←
15:07:25 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:07:26 <jorn> +1
15:07:28 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:07:29 <Edoardo_and_David> +1
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 ←
15:07:37 <GK> +1
Graham Klyne: +1 ←
15:07:42 <olaf> +1
Olaf Hartig: +1 ←
15:07:45 <iker> +1
Iker Huerga: +1 ←
15:07:46 <jun> +1
15:07:48 <SamCoppens> zakim, ??44 is SamCoppens
Sam Coppens: zakim, ??44 is SamCoppens ←
15:07:49 <Zakim> sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '??44'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, SamCoppens, I do not recognize a party named '??44' ←
15:07:55 <GK> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Graham Klyne: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:07:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1-805-893-7356, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, +1-805-893-7356, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, ←
15:08:01 <Zakim> ... zednik, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: ... zednik, jun, Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, ??P44, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda ←
15:08:04 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:08:14 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 25 (3%), pgroth (54%), DavidSchaengold (24%), ??P35 (51%), ??P44 (12%)
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 25 (3%), pgroth (54%), DavidSchaengold (24%), ??P35 (51%), ??P44 (12%) ←
15:08:16 <pgroth> RESOLVED: minutes accepted
RESOLVED: minutes accepted ←
15:08:17 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Action items to review
15:08:18 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open ←
15:08:25 <tlebo> Zakim, ??P44 is SamCoppens
Timothy Lebo: Zakim, ??P44 is SamCoppens ←
15:08:25 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←
15:08:31 <SamCoppens> thanks
Sam Coppens: thanks ←
15:09:02 <smiles> pgroth: completed action to add links to examples (active topics from front Wiki page)
Paul Groth: completed action to add links to examples (active topics from front Wiki page) ←
15:09:14 <frew> zakim, +1-805-893-7356 is me
James Frew: zakim, +1-805-893-7356 is me ←
15:09:14 <Zakim> +frew; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +frew; got it ←
15:09:23 <smiles> ... I encourage all to add links to the front page when there are new active topics
... I encourage all to add links to the front page when there are new active topics ←
15:09:41 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:09:46 <pgroth> ack frew
Paul Groth: ack frew ←
15:09:54 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Invited experts update
15:09:55 <smiles> pgroth: slowly resolving issues regarding getting everyone into the group, and on the mailing list
Paul Groth: slowly resolving issues regarding getting everyone into the group, and on the mailing list ←
15:10:07 <GK> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Graham Klyne: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:10:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, tlebo, DavidSchaengold, jorn, +1.858.210.aabb, ??P35, frew, dgarijo, ??P3, SatyaSahoo, ??P4, paolo_, olaf, zednik, jun, ←
15:10:10 <Zakim> ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Yogesh, jcheney, ??P42, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, ??P17, Yolanda ←
15:10:19 <smiles> satya: how soon will invited expert issues be resolved?
Satya Sahoo: how soon will invited expert issues be resolved? ←
15:10:30 <satya> q-
Satya Sahoo: q- ←
15:10:37 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←
15:10:44 <smiles> pgroth: don't know, this is an issue that the W3C handles
Paul Groth: don't know, this is an issue that the W3C handles ←
15:10:47 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes ←
15:11:01 <Zakim> +??P44
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P44 ←
15:11:13 <GK> zakim, ??P44 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??P44 is me ←
15:11:13 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
15:11:16 <smiles> SUBTOPIC: Scribes
15:11:17 <smiles> pgroth: we need scribes for the next weeks - please add you names, else will pick on people
Paul Groth: we need scribes for the next weeks - please add you names, else will pick on people ←
15:11:36 <luc> see instructions http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp
Luc Moreau: see instructions http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp ←
15:11:53 <luc> we can help set up before meeting
Luc Moreau: we can help set up before meeting ←
15:12:03 <smiles> pgroth: the responsibility of scribes is to write summaries of what people say, and instructions are available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp
Paul Groth: the responsibility of scribes is to write summaries of what people say, and instructions are available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/HowToSetUp ←
15:12:27 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample ←
15:12:42 <smiles> TOPIC: Data journalism example
Summary: We will use the current example to start model discussions, but can continue to comment on it on the mailing list, and will extend it when we find it cannot illustrate an important concept.
15:12:43 <smiles> SUMMARY: We will use the current example to start model discussions, but can continue to comment on it on the mailing list, and will extend it when we find it cannot illustrate an important concept.
15:12:56 <jorn> zakim,, who|s noisy
Jörn Hees: zakim,, who|s noisy ←
15:13:00 <Zakim> I don't understand ', who|s noisy', jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand ', who|s noisy', jorn ←
15:13:05 <smiles> pgroth: we decided to take an example-based approach, comments were received, are there any more?
Paul Groth: we decided to take an example-based approach, comments were received, are there any more? ←
15:13:09 <jorn> zakim, who's noisy
Jörn Hees: zakim, who's noisy ←
15:13:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's noisy', jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who's noisy', jorn ←
15:13:38 <GK> zakim, who is talking
Graham Klyne: zakim, who is talking ←
15:13:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', GK
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', GK ←
15:13:46 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:13:50 <dgarijo> zakim, who is making noise?
Daniel Garijo: zakim, who is making noise? ←
15:13:54 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:13:58 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (19%), +1.518.276.aaaa (4%), Yolanda (51%)
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (19%), +1.518.276.aaaa (4%), Yolanda (51%) ←
15:14:09 <Zakim> dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (5%), pgroth (32%), Yolanda (43%)
Zakim IRC Bot: dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (5%), pgroth (32%), Yolanda (43%) ←
15:14:10 <smiles> YolandaG: likes the example, but where we illustrate what a provenance container is, we need to be clear that not all provenance may be in that container - one may need to access other areas to retrieve other provenance data for the resource
Yolanda Gil: likes the example, but where we illustrate what a provenance container is, we need to be clear that not all provenance may be in that container - one may need to access other areas to retrieve other provenance data for the resource ←
15:14:30 <Zakim> -smiles
Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←
15:14:35 <Zakim> +??P45
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45 ←
15:14:46 <jorn> zakim, ??P45 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??P45 is me ←
15:14:46 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:14:56 <jun> +1 to YolandaG
15:15:15 <luc> tlebo: multiple sources are not represented yet in the example
Timothy Lebo: multiple sources are not represented yet in the example [ Scribe Assist by Luc Moreau ] ←
15:15:25 <Zakim> +VinhNguyen
Zakim IRC Bot: +VinhNguyen ←
15:15:32 <pgroth> Zakim, mute YolandaG
Paul Groth: Zakim, mute YolandaG ←
15:15:32 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not know which phone connection belongs to YolandaG
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I do not know which phone connection belongs to YolandaG ←
15:15:35 <Zakim> +??P46
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P46 ←
15:15:40 <pgroth> Zakim, mute Yolanda
Paul Groth: Zakim, mute Yolanda ←
15:15:40 <Zakim> Yolanda should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Yolanda should now be muted ←
15:15:55 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:16:02 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:16:06 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (9%), pgroth (43%), DavidSchaengold (13%), ??P35 (14%), smiles (18%)
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (9%), pgroth (43%), DavidSchaengold (13%), ??P35 (14%), smiles (18%) ←
15:16:38 <smiles> CarlOGC: asks about incorporating a map into the example, and will send to the mailing list a few words to incorporate
Carl Reed: asks about incorporating a map into the example, and will send to the mailing list a few words to incorporate ←
15:16:49 <tlebo> would the group mind expanding the variables used in the scenario? (e.g. lcp1)
Timothy Lebo: would the group mind expanding the variables used in the scenario? (e.g. lcp1) ←
<luc> post meeting editing: lcp stands for local copy
Luc Moreau: post meeting editing: lcp stands for local copy ←
15:17:12 <tlebo> +1 to continuing with example.
Timothy Lebo: +1 to continuing with example. ←
15:17:27 <smiles> pgroth: can we proceed with example as is, and expand as we go along - nice to move on to discussing concepts
Paul Groth: can we proceed with example as is, and expand as we go along - nice to move on to discussing concepts ←
15:17:29 <GK> +1 to moving on, update example as needed.
Graham Klyne: +1 to moving on, update example as needed. ←
15:17:48 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for continuing to change the example along instead of trying to get right now
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 for continuing to change the example along instead of trying to get right now ←
15:17:55 <pgroth> proposal: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands
PROPOSED: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands ←
15:17:57 <YogeshSimmhan> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:17:58 <jorn> +1
15:18:00 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:18:02 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:18:02 <satya> I agree, we should start with the example and let it evolve
Satya Sahoo: I agree, we should start with the example and let it evolve ←
15:18:02 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:18:03 <olaf> +1 to moving on
Olaf Hartig: +1 to moving on ←
15:18:03 <smiles> +1
+1 ←
15:18:04 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:18:06 <Edoardo_and_David> +1
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 ←
15:18:07 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:18:09 <paolo> +1
Paolo Missier: +1 ←
15:18:11 <jun> +1
15:18:12 <iker> +1 moving on
Iker Huerga: +1 moving on ←
15:18:15 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (27%)
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: khalidbelhajjame (27%) ←
15:18:18 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:18:19 <simoninireland> +1
Simon Dobson: +1 ←
15:18:20 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:18:23 <jorn> zakim, please mute khalidbelhajjame
Jörn Hees: zakim, please mute khalidbelhajjame ←
15:18:23 <Zakim> khalidbelhajjame should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: khalidbelhajjame should now be muted ←
15:18:28 <VinhNguyen> +1
Vinh Nguyen: +1 ←
15:18:35 <GK> +1
Graham Klyne: +1 ←
15:18:37 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
15:19:01 <pgroth> proposal accepted
Paul Groth: proposal accepted ←
15:19:01 <smiles> RESOLVED: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands
RESOLVED: continue updating example, but use the data journalism example as it currently stands ←
15:19:02 <tlebo> +q
Timothy Lebo: +q ←
15:19:03 <DavidSchaengold> +1
david schaengold: +1 ←
15:19:15 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:19:28 <smiles> tlebo: what are the next steps beyond making tweaks to scenario?
Timothy Lebo: what are the next steps beyond making tweaks to scenario? ←
15:19:33 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P8 is really me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P8 is really me ←
15:19:35 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
15:20:05 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:20:23 <smiles> pgroth: proceed as we have been doing by email to discuss example
Paul Groth: proceed as we have been doing by email to discuss example ←
15:20:40 <luc> ack tlebo
Luc Moreau: ack tlebo ←
15:20:46 <pgroth> ack dgarijo
Paul Groth: ack dgarijo ←
15:20:53 <smiles> dgarijo: proposal to add another example(s) on mailing list, to capture scientific domain
Daniel Garijo: proposal to add another example(s) on mailing list, to capture scientific domain ←
15:20:54 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
15:20:57 <jorn> zakim, who is noisy?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:20:58 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:21:11 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidSchaengold (59%), ??P35 (29%)
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidSchaengold (59%), ??P35 (29%) ←
15:21:17 <tlebo> q?
Timothy Lebo: q? ←
15:21:42 <jorn> zakim, please mute DavidSchaengold
Jörn Hees: zakim, please mute DavidSchaengold ←
15:21:42 <Zakim> DavidSchaengold should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: DavidSchaengold should now be muted ←
15:21:47 <tlebo> q?
Timothy Lebo: q? ←
15:21:52 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
15:22:08 <pgroth> zakim, ??P12 is pgroth
Paul Groth: zakim, ??P12 is pgroth ←
15:22:08 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
15:22:27 <tlebo> proposal: create an additional example for scientific domain.
PROPOSED: create an additional example for scientific domain. ←
15:22:51 <smiles> luc: we agreed last time to start with first example for discussing concepts, and bring other examples when they are found to be needed
Luc Moreau: we agreed last time to start with first example for discussing concepts, and bring other examples when they are found to be needed ←
15:22:54 <satya> q-
Satya Sahoo: q- ←
15:23:33 <tlebo> +1 working with the example as is.
Timothy Lebo: +1 working with the example as is. ←
15:23:36 <smiles> pgroth: we need to move on discussing concepts, but can keep iterating
Paul Groth: we need to move on discussing concepts, but can keep iterating ←
15:23:58 <smiles> TOPIC: Provenance access and query task force
Summary: The Provenance Access and Query Task Force will start from the incubator group report for developing a draft architecture. We will not design a query language, but will say how existing query languages/models work with the architecture.
15:23:59 <smiles> SUMMARY: The Provenance Access and Query Task Force will start from the incubator group report for developing a draft architecture. We will not design a query language, but will say how existing query languages/models work with the architecture.
15:24:04 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0071.html
Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0071.html ←
15:24:15 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Access_and_Query_Task_Force
Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Access_and_Query_Task_Force ←
15:24:31 <smiles> pgroth: there has been discussion of architecture on mailing list
Paul Groth: there has been discussion of architecture on mailing list ←
15:24:31 <smiles> ... any comments on how to get tf started?
... any comments on how to get tf started? ←
15:24:49 <Zakim> +paulo
Zakim IRC Bot: +paulo ←
15:24:50 <smiles> olaf: we agreed on a set of objectives for the task force in time for the F2F meeting
Olaf Hartig: we agreed on a set of objectives for the task force in time for the F2F meeting ←
15:25:20 <smiles> ... a including draft for access and query architecture
... a including draft for access and query architecture ←
15:25:21 <smiles> PROPOSED: base draft architecture on proposal in XG report at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/XGR-prov/
PROPOSED: base draft architecture on proposal in XG report at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/XGR-prov/ ←
15:25:22 <iker> +1 olaf proposal
Iker Huerga: +1 olaf proposal ←
15:25:41 <GK> q+, to say I'm not sure how the provenance XG report really works as a foundation
Graham Klyne: q+, to say I'm not sure how the provenance XG report really works as a foundation ←
15:25:46 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for Olaf's proposal
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 for Olaf's proposal ←
15:26:03 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:26:07 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:26:50 <smiles> GK: not clear from XG report what the problem trying to be solved is
Graham Klyne: not clear from XG report what the problem trying to be solved is ←
15:26:50 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.375.aaee ←
15:27:12 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:27:18 <smiles> ... will send thoughts to mailing list on this
... will send thoughts to mailing list on this ←
15:27:26 <paulo> q+
15:27:41 <luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:27:46 <smiles> satya: agree with Olaf, but in XG report did not discuss query mechanism only access
Satya Sahoo: agree with Olaf, but in XG report did not discuss query mechanism only access ←
15:27:58 <smiles> ... will we discuss query separately?
... will we discuss query separately? ←
15:28:21 <smiles> pgroth: olaf's proposal was around access, fit into web architecture
Paul Groth: olaf's proposal was around access, fit into web architecture ←
15:28:33 <luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:29:57 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:30:15 <smiles> paulo: we have scenario with list of questions which could be posed, but should have queries which motivate problem, and design for answering the questions asked
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: we have scenario with list of questions which could be posed, but should have queries which motivate problem, and design for answering the questions asked ←
15:30:16 <Zakim> +??P45
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45 ←
15:30:25 <jorn> zakim, ??P45 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??P45 is me ←
15:30:25 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:30:34 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample#Provenance_Questions
Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample#Provenance_Questions ←
15:31:18 <smiles> luc: discussions on access task force were good, and feedback on XG report was positive
Luc Moreau: discussions on access task force were good, and feedback on XG report was positive ←
15:31:31 <smiles> ... in those discussions, we were pointed to POWDER as something to consider
... in those discussions, we were pointed to POWDER as something to consider ←
15:32:06 <smiles> ... queries are in scope of this WG, but not intent of WG to design a query language for provenance
... queries are in scope of this WG, but not intent of WG to design a query language for provenance ←
15:32:40 <GK> +1 not designing a query language
Graham Klyne: +1 not designing a query language ←
15:32:45 <smiles> pgroth: two proposals to proceed: first, use incubator group report section to build on
Paul Groth: two proposals to proceed: first, use incubator group report section to build on ←
15:32:59 <GK> q+ to say not opposing use of XG doc
Graham Klyne: q+ to say not opposing use of XG doc ←
15:33:05 <pgroth> ack paulo
Paul Groth: ack paulo ←
15:33:07 <pgroth> ack luc
Paul Groth: ack luc ←
15:33:09 <YogeshSimmhan> +1 to olaf proposal to use XG report as starting point
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 to olaf proposal to use XG report as starting point ←
15:33:16 <Zakim> -Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←
15:33:18 <smiles> ... second, more crisply define the problems we are trying to solve first
... second, more crisply define the problems we are trying to solve first ←
15:33:42 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:33:44 <smiles> +1
+1 ←
15:33:45 <Zakim> +Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh ←
15:33:45 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:33:45 <jcheney> +1 for starting point
James Cheney: +1 for starting point ←
15:33:46 <simoninireland> +1
Simon Dobson: +1 ←
15:33:47 <olaf> +1
Olaf Hartig: +1 ←
15:33:48 <jorn> +1
15:33:49 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:33:50 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:33:50 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
15:33:51 <DavidSchaengold> +1
david schaengold: +1 ←
15:33:55 <jun> +1 for starting point
Jun Zhao: +1 for starting point ←
15:33:56 <GK> +1 (taking into account resevrations noted in email)
Graham Klyne: +1 (taking into account resevrations noted in email) ←
15:34:04 <satya> I also propose that we rename PAQ task force as provenance access task force
Satya Sahoo: I also propose that we rename PAQ task force as provenance access task force ←
15:34:05 <Edoardo_and_David> +1
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 ←
15:34:09 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:34:11 <dgarijo> also, +1 to not designing a new query language.
Daniel Garijo: also, +1 to not designing a new query language. ←
15:34:25 <Zakim> -paulo
Zakim IRC Bot: -paulo ←
15:34:26 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:34:27 <ericstephan> ericstephan - is ericstephan - btw :-)
Eric Stephan: ericstephan - is ericstephan - btw :-) ←
15:34:34 <pgroth> ack GK
Paul Groth: ack GK ←
15:34:34 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say not opposing use of XG doc
Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say not opposing use of XG doc ←
15:34:38 <GK> q-
Graham Klyne: q- ←
15:34:51 <pgroth> ack khalidbelhajjame
Paul Groth: ack khalidbelhajjame ←
15:35:24 <smiles> khalid: if a query language is outside scope of the WG, we should be clear that we are only discussing access
Khalid Belhajjame: if a query language is outside scope of the WG, we should be clear that we are only discussing access ←
15:35:26 <smiles> RESOLVED: use incubator report access architecture as starting point for access and query task force F2F draft
RESOLVED: use incubator report access architecture as starting point for access and query task force F2F draft ←
15:35:30 <GK> q+ to say that identifying mechanisms to use existing QL is OK
Graham Klyne: q+ to say that identifying mechanisms to use existing QL is OK ←
15:35:37 <luc> It is still the case that we may want to explain how to use, say SPARQL, to query provenance
Luc Moreau: It is still the case that we may want to explain how to use, say SPARQL, to query provenance ←
15:35:48 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:36:36 <smiles> pgroth: could rename access and query task force to access only, but we also have reference to sparql endpoints etc in charter
Paul Groth: could rename access and query task force to access only, but we also have reference to sparql endpoints etc in charter ←
15:36:48 <Zakim> +paulo
Zakim IRC Bot: +paulo ←
15:36:57 <satya> q-
Satya Sahoo: q- ←
15:36:57 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:37:00 <smiles> satya: not proposing new query language, but we can say how existing languages to fit into architecture
Satya Sahoo: not proposing new query language, but we can say how existing languages to fit into architecture ←
15:37:36 <smiles> GK: maybe it is in scope how to make use of existing query languages and mechanisms
Graham Klyne: maybe it is in scope how to make use of existing query languages and mechanisms ←
15:38:12 <smiles> TOPIC: Concepts illustration
Summary: We will have a Wiki page per concept and use the issue tracker to discuss definitions. Definitions will be informal and grounded with the example.
15:38:13 <smiles> SUMMARY: We will have a Wiki page per concept and use the issue tracker to discuss definitions. Definitions will be informal and grounded with the example.
15:38:31 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html
Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html ←
15:38:39 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration ←
15:38:45 <smiles> pgroth: asked people to discuss how example can be used to illustrate concepts from charter
Paul Groth: asked people to discuss how example can be used to illustrate concepts from charter ←
15:39:28 <paulo> q+
15:39:29 <smiles> ... used scenario to propose examples for concepts - not many comments yet - are the concept examples reasonable?
... used scenario to propose examples for concepts - not many comments yet - are the concept examples reasonable? ←
15:39:39 <pgroth> ack GK
Paul Groth: ack GK ←
15:39:45 <pgroth> ack paulo
Paul Groth: ack paulo ←
15:40:19 <smiles> paulo: maybe limiting that example is so focused on a process
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: maybe limiting that example is so focused on a process ←
15:42:02 <smiles> ... use of process may blind us to cover all aspects we need
... use of process may blind us to cover all aspects we need ←
15:42:44 <paulo> q+
15:42:48 <smiles> pgroth: we want to define the set of concepts we want to use, need a process for this activity
Paul Groth: we want to define the set of concepts we want to use, need a process for this activity ←
15:43:34 <smiles> ... (as in a process for the working group, not a process in the example/model)
... (as in a process for the working group, not a process in the example/model) ←
15:43:44 <luc> paul: explain what an issue is
Paul Groth: explain what an issue is [ Scribe Assist by Luc Moreau ] ←
15:43:54 <pgroth> What term do we adopt for concept 'xxx' and how do we define it?"
Paul Groth: What term do we adopt for concept 'xxx' and how do we define it?" ←
15:44:13 <luc> paul, please explain what an issue is
Luc Moreau: paul, please explain what an issue is ←
15:44:13 <smiles> pgroth: suggest we raise an issue for each concept in the charter of form above
Paul Groth: suggest we raise an issue for each concept in the charter of form above ←
15:44:30 <ericstephan> q+
Eric Stephan: q+ ←
15:44:33 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/
Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/ ←
15:44:39 <Zakim> - +1.509.375.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.375.aaee ←
15:44:45 <smiles> ... an issue is something which can be raised in the tracker for discussion until resolution
... an issue is something which can be raised in the tracker for discussion until resolution ←
15:44:57 <pgroth> q-
Paul Groth: q- ←
15:45:27 <paulo> q+
15:45:29 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.375.aaff ←
15:45:37 <smiles> pgroth: we raise issues for the initial set of concepts from charter, and if new concepts people can raise them as issues
Paul Groth: we raise issues for the initial set of concepts from charter, and if new concepts people can raise them as issues ←
15:45:41 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:45:43 <jorn> zakim, aaff probably is ericstephan
Jörn Hees: zakim, aaff probably is ericstephan ←
15:45:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaff probably is ericstephan', jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'aaff probably is ericstephan', jorn ←
15:45:44 <ericstephan> q+ again sorry
Eric Stephan: q+ again sorry ←
15:45:56 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
15:46:07 <jorn> zakim, ??P14 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??P14 is me ←
15:46:08 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:46:34 <jcheney> "issue" is just the name for something the tracker tracks...
James Cheney: "issue" is just the name for something the tracker tracks... ←
15:46:46 <smiles> paulo: consider questions we have to be answered with model, as we may have concepts which are not answering any question
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: consider questions we have to be answered with model, as we may have concepts which are not answering any question ←
15:46:46 <luc> paulo has got a point, we have a list of queries associated with the example
Luc Moreau: paulo has got a point, we have a list of queries associated with the example ←
15:47:04 <luc> a "w3c issue" is like a bug in bugzilla
Luc Moreau: a "w3c issue" is like a bug in bugzilla ←
15:47:35 <jcheney> some of them might be uncontroversial and so "resolved" immediately.
James Cheney: some of them might be uncontroversial and so "resolved" immediately. ←
15:48:13 <jorn> zakim, aaff is probably ericstephan
Jörn Hees: zakim, aaff is probably ericstephan ←
15:48:13 <Zakim> +ericstephan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan; got it ←
15:48:18 <smiles> luc: paulo is right that we do not want concepts not used in any queries, so we need to show how they are used to answer queries
Luc Moreau: paulo is right that we do not want concepts not used in any queries, so we need to show how they are used to answer queries ←
15:48:25 <smiles> ... we have a list of queries in the example and need to extend it over time
... we have a list of queries in the example and need to extend it over time ←
15:48:48 <smiles> PROPOSED: raise issue for discussing each concept definition
PROPOSED: raise issue for discussing each concept definition ←
15:48:49 <satya> for raising issue?
Satya Sahoo: for raising issue? ←
15:48:49 <simoninireland> +1
Simon Dobson: +1 ←
15:48:49 <tlebo> +1 using tracker
Timothy Lebo: +1 using tracker ←
15:48:49 <Zakim> -Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda ←
15:48:50 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:48:51 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
15:48:52 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:48:52 <jorn> +1
15:48:53 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:48:53 <smiles> +1
+1 ←
15:48:53 <GK> +1
Graham Klyne: +1 ←
15:48:54 <jun> +1
15:48:54 <DavidSchaengold> +1
david schaengold: +1 ←
15:48:54 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:48:54 <Altintas> +1
Ilkay Altintas: +1 ←
15:48:55 <frew> +1
James Frew: +1 ←
15:48:55 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:48:56 <paulo> q+
15:48:57 <Edoardo_and_David> +1
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 ←
15:48:58 <olaf> +1
Olaf Hartig: +1 ←
15:48:58 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:49:00 <YogeshSimmhan> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:49:00 <jcheney> q+
James Cheney: q+ ←
15:49:58 <smiles> eric: can connection task force use these concepts to identify which groups they may pertain to?
Eric Stephan: can connection task force use these concepts to identify which groups they may pertain to? ←
15:50:25 <pgroth> ack paulo
Paul Groth: ack paulo ←
15:50:32 <pgroth> ack eristephan
Paul Groth: ack eristephan ←
15:50:41 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:50:51 <smiles> jcheney: when using issue tracker, there is a formal process for asking for comments from outside
James Cheney: when using issue tracker, there is a formal process for asking for comments from outside ←
15:51:20 <smiles> ... guidance says good to have examples to illustrate disagreements
... guidance says good to have examples to illustrate disagreements ←
15:51:30 <dgarijo> ack ericstephan
Daniel Garijo: ack ericstephan ←
15:51:31 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#formal-address
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#formal-address ←
15:51:34 <jcheney> q-
James Cheney: q- ←
15:52:06 <smiles> RESOLVED: use issue tracking to discuss concept definitions
RESOLVED: use issue tracking to discuss concept definitions ←
15:52:32 <smiles> pgroth: how to suggest definitions?
Paul Groth: how to suggest definitions? ←
15:52:33 <tlebo> wiki?
Timothy Lebo: wiki? ←
15:52:34 <luc> a wiki page per concept?
Luc Moreau: a wiki page per concept? ←
15:52:44 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:52:47 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:53:03 <Edoardo_and_David> +1 a wiki page per concept
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 a wiki page per concept ←
15:53:05 <ericstephan> +1 luc's idea
Eric Stephan: +1 luc's idea ←
15:53:07 <jorn> +1
15:53:12 <smiles> pgroth: once we have a wiki page per concept, then what?
Paul Groth: once we have a wiki page per concept, then what? ←
15:53:13 <satya> +1 for wiki page
Satya Sahoo: +1 for wiki page ←
15:53:15 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
15:53:16 <luc> so, when we raise an issue, we also create the corresponding wiki page
Luc Moreau: so, when we raise an issue, we also create the corresponding wiki page ←
15:53:22 <olaf> +1
Olaf Hartig: +1 ←
15:53:29 <satya> Create a definition for the concept
Satya Sahoo: Create a definition for the concept ←
15:53:35 <jun> +1
15:53:41 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:53:45 <GK> q+ to suggest that someone familiar with W3C support tools should make proposal (on list, with links) then have us throw rocks at it?
Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest that someone familiar with W3C support tools should make proposal (on list, with links) then have us throw rocks at it? ←
15:53:47 <smiles> tlebo: use wiki to represent current definition, have wiki link as part of the tracker (issue)
Timothy Lebo: use wiki to represent current definition, have wiki link as part of the tracker (issue) ←
15:53:57 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:53:58 <jorn> there are history links in the wiki, aren't they? so use them in emails?
Jörn Hees: there are history links in the wiki, aren't they? so use them in emails? ←
15:53:59 <Altintas> +1
Ilkay Altintas: +1 ←
15:54:11 <luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:54:16 <luc> ack again
Luc Moreau: ack again ←
15:54:18 <luc> ack sorry
Luc Moreau: ack sorry ←
15:54:20 <smiles> pgroth: how to get first set of definitions?
Paul Groth: how to get first set of definitions? ←
15:54:21 <satya> from the XG final report?
Satya Sahoo: from the XG final report? ←
15:54:24 <luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:54:59 <smiles> GK: maybe more productive for someone familiar with W3C tooling put something initial together
Graham Klyne: maybe more productive for someone familiar with W3C tooling put something initial together ←
15:55:43 <GK> q-
Graham Klyne: q- ←
15:55:47 <smiles> luc: proposal of inviting submitting definitions is good, but some definitions may be mutually dependent, so need mechanism to cross-ref definitions
Luc Moreau: proposal of inviting submitting definitions is good, but some definitions may be mutually dependent, so need mechanism to cross-ref definitions ←
15:55:51 <luc> q-
Luc Moreau: q- ←
15:55:53 <satya> a note on the wiki page of the concept to cross-reference?
Satya Sahoo: a note on the wiki page of the concept to cross-reference? ←
15:56:23 <Zakim> -??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P3 ←
15:56:28 <smiles> PROPOSED: idea is everyone allowed to submit own definitions, then merge
PROPOSED: idea is everyone allowed to submit own definitions, then merge ←
15:56:29 <GK> q+ to suggest suggested definitions should be grounded in example
Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest suggested definitions should be grounded in example ←
15:56:37 <luc> or is better to put one proposal, which get discussed?
Luc Moreau: or is better to put one proposal, which get discussed? ←
15:56:44 <tlebo> concept references within a definition can link via wiki link.
Timothy Lebo: concept references within a definition can link via wiki link. ←
15:56:58 <smiles> GK: in asking people to submit, could ask that grounded in example?
Graham Klyne: in asking people to submit, could ask that grounded in example? ←
15:57:04 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:57:32 <smiles> pgroth: (agree with GK, add to proposal above)
Paul Groth: (agree with GK, add to proposal above) ←
15:57:43 <satya> + 1 for proposal 1
Satya Sahoo: + 1 for proposal 1 ←
15:57:51 <smiles> pgroth: alternative proposal to start with one definition, and edit (based on example)
Paul Groth: alternative proposal to start with one definition, and edit (based on example) ←
15:57:55 <luc> ... or propose alternative definition
Luc Moreau: ... or propose alternative definition ←
15:57:56 <tlebo> multiple working definitions could be placed onto the same concept's wiki page
Timothy Lebo: multiple working definitions could be placed onto the same concept's wiki page ←
15:57:57 <GK> q+ point of order: proposals not mutually exclusive?
Graham Klyne: q+ point of order: proposals not mutually exclusive? ←
15:58:53 <tlebo> what percentage of the working group can edit the wiki?
Timothy Lebo: what percentage of the working group can edit the wiki? ←
15:58:54 <smiles> GK: just suggesting that whatever process used, ground in example
Graham Klyne: just suggesting that whatever process used, ground in example ←
15:58:59 <luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:59:25 <jcheney> +q
James Cheney: +q ←
15:59:25 <GK> q-
Graham Klyne: q- ←
15:59:27 <luc> q-
Luc Moreau: q- ←
15:59:33 <pgroth> ack tlebo
Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←
15:59:36 <smiles> luc: maybe difficult to come up with initial definitions - instead paraphrase something rather than formal definition
Luc Moreau: maybe difficult to come up with initial definitions - instead paraphrase something rather than formal definition ←
16:00:04 <smiles> jcheney: formal or informal definitions?
James Cheney: formal or informal definitions? ←
16:00:11 <paulo> q+
16:00:16 <zednik> +1 informal
Stephan Zednik: +1 informal ←
16:00:20 <jcheney> q-
James Cheney: q- ←
16:00:23 <jorn> +1 for informal first...
Jörn Hees: +1 for informal first... ←
16:00:25 <Zakim> -??P42
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P42 ←
16:00:32 <dgarijo> +1 to informal
Daniel Garijo: +1 to informal ←
16:00:33 <luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:00:34 <tlebo> re: formality, have both rdfs/owl statements and inform descriptions on same wiki page for the concept?
Carl Reed: formality, have both rdfs/owl statements and inform descriptions on same wiki page for the concept? [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
16:00:52 <smiles> paulo: agree on distinction between informal and formal definitions (are informal definitions actually definitions?)
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: agree on distinction between informal and formal definitions (are informal definitions actually definitions?) ←
16:01:23 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
16:01:28 <smiles> luc: half of wg did not belong to incubator, we are first trying to build a shared vocabulary
Luc Moreau: half of wg did not belong to incubator, we are first trying to build a shared vocabulary ←
16:01:36 <GK> +1 to building shared vocabulary
Graham Klyne: +1 to building shared vocabulary ←
16:01:53 <Zakim> +??P62
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P62 ←
16:02:00 <zednik> +1 to building shared vocabularly
Stephan Zednik: +1 to building shared vocabularly ←
16:02:06 <jorn> Zakim, ??p62 is me
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p62 is me ←
16:02:06 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
16:02:06 <smiles> ... starting with a formal definition is not helpful, informal definition using paraphrasing, examples, graphical notation is better
... starting with a formal definition is not helpful, informal definition using paraphrasing, examples, graphical notation is better ←
16:02:19 <olaf> +1 for proposal 1 with informal definitions
Olaf Hartig: +1 for proposal 1 with informal definitions ←
16:02:28 <jun> + informal
16:02:30 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
16:02:30 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
16:02:31 <jorn> +1
16:02:31 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
16:02:31 <tlebo> +1 formal +1 informal
Timothy Lebo: +1 formal +1 informal ←
16:02:33 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
16:02:33 <frew> +1
James Frew: +1 ←
16:02:34 <satya> +1 for informal
Satya Sahoo: +1 for informal ←
16:02:35 <Edoardo_and_David> +1
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 ←
16:02:36 <pgroth> proposal for informal to start
Paul Groth: proposal for informal to start ←
16:02:38 <smiles> pgroth: informal definitions to start?
Paul Groth: informal definitions to start? ←
16:02:39 <smiles> +1
+1 ←
16:02:41 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
16:02:43 <paolo> +1 informal
Paolo Missier: +1 informal ←
16:02:44 <dgarijo> +1 informal
Daniel Garijo: +1 informal ←
16:02:44 <DavidSchaengold> +1 for informal
david schaengold: +1 for informal ←
16:02:45 <GK> +1 start informal, build shared vocab
Graham Klyne: +1 start informal, build shared vocab ←
16:02:46 <CarlOGC> +1
16:02:48 <YogeshSimmhan> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
16:02:48 <Altintas> +1
Ilkay Altintas: +1 ←
16:02:50 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
16:02:54 <Altintas> or informal
Ilkay Altintas: or informal ←
16:03:28 <Zakim> -frew
Zakim IRC Bot: -frew ←
16:03:31 <smiles> RESOLVED: start with informal definitions, grounded with example
RESOLVED: start with informal definitions, grounded with example ←
16:03:32 <smiles> pgroth: will set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts
Paul Groth: will set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts ←
16:03:32 <Zakim> -jun
Zakim IRC Bot: -jun ←
16:03:33 <smiles> ACTION: Paul to set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts
ACTION: Paul to set up web pages for concepts, issues for defining concepts ←
16:03:34 <Zakim> -SatyaSahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -SatyaSahoo ←
16:03:35 <Zakim> -ericstephan
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan ←
16:03:36 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaaa ←
16:03:39 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
16:03:41 <Zakim> -DavidSchaengold
Zakim IRC Bot: -DavidSchaengold ←
16:03:43 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
16:03:45 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
16:03:47 <Zakim> - +1.858.210.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.858.210.aabb ←
16:03:49 <Zakim> -olaf
Zakim IRC Bot: -olaf ←
16:03:51 <Zakim> -Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←
16:03:53 <Zakim> -paolo_
Zakim IRC Bot: -paolo_ ←
16:03:55 <Zakim> -zednik
Zakim IRC Bot: -zednik ←
16:03:57 <Zakim> -VinhNguyen
Zakim IRC Bot: -VinhNguyen ←
16:04:01 <Zakim> -luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -luc ←
16:04:01 <smiles> rrsagent, set log public
rrsagent, set log public ←
16:04:03 <Zakim> -GK
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK ←
16:04:07 <Zakim> -paulo
Zakim IRC Bot: -paulo ←
16:04:09 <Zakim> -??P35
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P35 ←
16:04:11 <smiles> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:04:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html smiles
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html smiles ←
16:04:15 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
16:04:17 <Zakim> -??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P4 ←
16:04:21 <Zakim> -??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17 ←
16:04:27 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
16:04:28 <smiles> trackbot, end telcon
trackbot, end telcon ←
16:04:28 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:04:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, DavidSchaengold, +1.858.210.aabb, jorn, tlebo, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, SatyaSahoo, paolo_, olaf,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, luc, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, DavidSchaengold, +1.858.210.aabb, jorn, tlebo, +1.805.893.aacc, dgarijo, SatyaSahoo, paolo_, olaf, ←
16:04:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:04:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:04:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:04:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
16:04:32 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aadd, Yogesh, jun, jcheney, khalidbelhajjame, zednik, Yolanda, SamCoppens, frew, GK, VinhNguyen, paulo, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.509.375.aaff, ericstephan
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aadd, Yogesh, jun, jcheney, khalidbelhajjame, zednik, Yolanda, SamCoppens, frew, GK, VinhNguyen, paulo, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.509.375.aaff, ericstephan ←
Formatted by CommonScribe