14:00:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-gld-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-gld-irc ←
14:00:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:00:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be GLD ←
14:00:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started ←
14:00:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
14:00:06 <trackbot> Date: 13 September 2012
14:02:20 <Zakim> + +1.757.604.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.757.604.aaaa ←
14:02:29 <Zakim> + +3539149aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aabb ←
14:03:00 <George> zakim who is here?
George Thomas: zakim who is here? ←
14:03:21 <George> zakim, who is here?
George Thomas: zakim, who is here? ←
14:03:26 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
14:03:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, George_Thomas, +1.757.604.aaaa, +3539149aabb, ??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, George_Thomas, +1.757.604.aaaa, +3539149aabb, ??P29 ←
14:03:36 <olyerickson> Zakim, ??P29 is me.
John Erickson: Zakim, ??P29 is me. ←
14:03:43 <DeirdreLee> zakim, +3539149aabb is me
Deirdre Lee: zakim, +3539149aabb is me ←
14:03:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see bhyland, GeraldSteeman, mhausenblas, olyerickson, Zakim, RRSAgent, DeirdreLee, George, MacTed, danbri_, cygri, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bhyland, GeraldSteeman, mhausenblas, olyerickson, Zakim, RRSAgent, DeirdreLee, George, MacTed, danbri_, cygri, trackbot, sandro ←
14:03:56 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +olyerickson; got it ←
14:03:59 <GeraldSteeman> zakim, aaaa is me.
Gerald Steeman: zakim, aaaa is me. ←
14:04:06 <Zakim> +DeirdreLee; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +DeirdreLee; got it ←
14:04:12 <olyerickson> Zaim, who is on the phone?
John Erickson: Zaim, who is on the phone? ←
14:04:17 <Zakim> +GeraldSteeman; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GeraldSteeman; got it ←
14:04:29 <George> zakim, who is here?
George Thomas: zakim, who is here? ←
14:04:31 <Zakim> +bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhyland ←
14:04:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, George_Thomas, GeraldSteeman, DeirdreLee, olyerickson, bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, George_Thomas, GeraldSteeman, DeirdreLee, olyerickson, bhyland ←
14:05:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see bhyland, GeraldSteeman, mhausenblas, olyerickson, Zakim, RRSAgent, DeirdreLee, George, MacTed, danbri_, cygri, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bhyland, GeraldSteeman, mhausenblas, olyerickson, Zakim, RRSAgent, DeirdreLee, George, MacTed, danbri_, cygri, trackbot, sandro ←
14:05:53 <olyerickson> I'll scribe
John Erickson: I'll scribe ←
14:05:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:06:06 <PhilA2> zakim, IPCaller is me
Phil Archer: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
14:06:06 <Zakim> +PhilA2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +PhilA2; got it ←
14:06:10 <olyerickson> Scribe: olyerickson
(Scribe set to John Erickson)
14:06:22 <bhyland> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120913
14:06:30 <olyerickson> Topic: Minutes
14:06:35 <bhyland> Minutes for last week: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-09-06
Bernadette Hyland: Minutes for last week: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-09-06 ←
14:06:38 <bhyland> +1
Bernadette Hyland: +1 ←
14:07:00 <PhilA2> Propose accept minutes of last week http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-09-06
Phil Archer: Propose accept minutes of last week http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-09-06 ←
14:07:19 <olyerickson> bhyland: Note resolution was added last week
Bernadette Hyland: Note resolution was added last week ←
14:07:31 <olyerickson> PhilA2: confirms resolution (near end)
Phil Archer: confirms resolution (near end) ←
14:07:41 <olyerickson> * note "+1s" at end
* note "+1s" at end ←
14:08:02 <olyerickson> PhilA2 to edit to note resolution
PhilA2 to edit to note resolution ←
14:08:32 <olyerickson> bhyland: add to agenda discussion of "Business Core Vocabulary"
Bernadette Hyland: add to agenda discussion of "Business Core Vocabulary" ←
14:08:47 <olyerickson> Topic: Agenda items for this call
14:08:56 <olyerickson> "Business Core Vocabulary" (PhilA2 & bhyland request)
"Business Core Vocabulary" (PhilA2 & bhyland request) ←
14:09:04 <olyerickson> Deliverable adjustments (George)
Deliverable adjustments (George) ←
14:09:19 <bhyland> Agenda+ Feedback on ADMS Business Vocabulary feedback (has to do with suggestions to move to legal-entity)
Bernadette Hyland: Agenda+ Feedback on ADMS Business Vocabulary feedback (has to do with suggestions to move to legal-entity) ←
14:09:34 <olyerickson> George: Would like to talk vocab but are thin on attendance (edits)
George Thomas: Would like to talk vocab but are thin on attendance (edits) ←
14:09:53 <olyerickson> PhilA2: Request to continue conformance discussion
Phil Archer: Request to continue conformance discussion ←
14:11:01 <olyerickson> Topic: Conformance Issue (PhilA2)
14:11:09 <olyerickson> Recall discussion with Rufus
Recall discussion with Rufus ←
14:11:18 <olyerickson> Two key aspects:
Two key aspects: ←
14:11:19 <bhyland> Agenda+ Modifications to Main GLD wiki page under "Deliverables" (has to do with geography & spatial information)
Bernadette Hyland: Agenda+ Modifications to Main GLD wiki page under "Deliverables" (has to do with geography & spatial information) ←
14:11:34 <PhilA2> Take a look at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#conformance
Phil Archer: Take a look at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#conformance ←
14:11:49 <olyerickson> * Double-check that what we agreed with Rufus is correct; see above editor's draft
* Double-check that what we agreed with Rufus is correct; see above editor's draft ←
14:12:11 <olyerickson> * The point: includes text that captures what we discussed w/ Rufus
* The point: includes text that captures what we discussed w/ Rufus ←
14:12:20 <olyerickson> "What does it mean to conform to a vocab"
"What does it mean to conform to a vocab" ←
14:12:35 <olyerickson> * In the "open world" paradigm, very hard to think about 'conformance'
* In the "open world" paradigm, very hard to think about 'conformance' ←
14:12:49 <olyerickson> * If everything is optional, how to measure conformance
* If everything is optional, how to measure conformance ←
14:13:09 <olyerickson> * Conformance isn't about using everything
* Conformance isn't about using everything ←
14:13:12 <bhyland> PhilA reviewed language: "Conformance to this vocabulary means using its classes, properties and relationships to describe businesses. It does not necessarily mean using every term and there are no terms that are mandatory. However, the inclusion of a term signals that the Working Group has found it to be useful. Applications may specify a minimum set of terms that publishers must use if their data is to be processed, and may also specify controlled vocabularies
Bernadette Hyland: PhilA reviewed language: "Conformance to this vocabulary means using its classes, properties and relationships to describe businesses. It does not necessarily mean using every term and there are no terms that are mandatory. However, the inclusion of a term signals that the Working Group has found it to be useful. Applications may specify a minimum set of terms that publishers must use if their data is to be processed, and may also specify controlled vocabularies ←
14:13:51 <olyerickson> Applications MAY specify req'd usage. Vocab itself doesn't specify requirements for compliant usage
Applications MAY specify req'd usage. Vocab itself doesn't specify requirements for compliant usage ←
14:14:14 <olyerickson> * WG GLD may e.g. recognize cardinality constraints often important
* WG GLD may e.g. recognize cardinality constraints often important ←
14:14:57 <olyerickson> bhyland: What specifically was changed? What's different?
Bernadette Hyland: What specifically was changed? What's different? ←
14:15:02 <sandro> +1 to this approach, and it's what we talked about
Sandro Hawke: +1 to this approach, and it's what we talked about ←
14:15:05 <George> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#conformance
George Thomas: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#conformance ←
14:15:13 <George> Conformance to this vocabulary means using its classes, properties and relationships to describe businesses. It does not necessarily mean using every term and there are no terms that are mandatory. However, the inclusion of a term signals that the Working Group has found it to be useful. Applications may specify a minimum set of terms that publishers must use if their data is to be processed, and may also specify controlled vocabularies as acceptable values for p
George Thomas: Conformance to this vocabulary means using its classes, properties and relationships to describe businesses. It does not necessarily mean using every term and there are no terms that are mandatory. However, the inclusion of a term signals that the Working Group has found it to be useful. Applications may specify a minimum set of terms that publishers must use if their data is to be processed, and may also specify controlled vocabularies as acceptable values for p ←
14:15:27 <olyerickson> PhilA2: The (conformance) text is new; added to (he thinks) Editors' Draft
Phil Archer: The (conformance) text is new; added to (he thinks) Editors' Draft ←
14:16:00 <olyerickson> bhyland: Some of the bullets are boilerplate
Bernadette Hyland: Some of the bullets are boilerplate ←
14:16:06 <PhilA2> Current ed draft oif DCAT http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/dcat/index.html
Phil Archer: Current ed draft oif DCAT http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/dcat/index.html ←
14:16:09 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
14:16:22 <Yigal> zakim, ??p37 is me
Yigal Arens: zakim, ??p37 is me ←
14:16:22 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yigal; got it ←
14:16:45 <olyerickson> PhilA2; Current Editors' Draft of DCAT doesn't have more "robust" language. Neither does Data Cube, neither does Org
PhilA2; Current Editors' Draft of DCAT doesn't have more "robust" language. Neither does Data Cube, neither does Org ←
14:16:56 <olyerickson> (last bit was bhyland)
(last bit was bhyland) ←
14:17:24 <olyerickson> * PhilA2: Rufus did not like some of the language; refer to public comments
* PhilA2: Rufus did not like some of the language; refer to public comments ←
14:17:48 <olyerickson> * bhyland: PhilA2's draft is paragraph, not bullets (problem)
* bhyland: PhilA2's draft is paragraph, not bullets (problem) ←
14:18:02 <olyerickson> * bhyland: Wording "wishy-washy"
* bhyland: Wording "wishy-washy" ←
14:18:19 <olyerickson> * bhyland: Say what you mean, directly...
* bhyland: Say what you mean, directly... ←
14:18:31 <Zakim> + +1.440.389.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.440.389.aacc ←
14:18:36 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, aacc is me
Hadley Beeman: zakim, aacc is me ←
14:18:36 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +HadleyBeeman; got it ←
14:18:44 <olyerickson> George: Well, GLD draft does say conformance will be "application specific"
George Thomas: Well, GLD draft does say conformance will be "application specific" ←
14:18:57 <Zakim> + +34.60.062.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +34.60.062.aadd ←
14:19:23 <olyerickson> * bhyland: Would rather be definite on minimum set
* bhyland: Would rather be definite on minimum set ←
14:20:27 <olyerickson> George; PhilA2 has captured what would make Rufus happy
George; PhilA2 has captured what would make Rufus happy ←
14:20:40 <boris> zakim, aadd is me
Boris Villazón-Terrazas: zakim, aadd is me ←
14:20:40 <Zakim> +boris; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +boris; got it ←
14:20:48 <olyerickson> * bhyland: Needs bullets, better for International readers
* bhyland: Needs bullets, better for International readers ←
14:20:50 <boris> zakim, mute me
Boris Villazón-Terrazas: zakim, mute me ←
14:20:50 <Zakim> boris should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: boris should now be muted ←
14:21:11 <olyerickson> * bhyland: Needs more direct language, current is wishy-washy
* bhyland: Needs more direct language, current is wishy-washy ←
14:21:44 <olyerickson> * bhyland: better: "applications must satisfy minimum set of terms"
* bhyland: better: "applications must satisfy minimum set of terms" ←
14:22:08 <bhyland> We are talking about http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#conformance
Bernadette Hyland: We are talking about http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#conformance ←
14:22:15 <HadleyBeeman> thanks, bhyland.
Hadley Beeman: thanks, bhyland. ←
14:22:33 <olyerickson> PhilA2: There is a difference between conforming to vocab vs conforming to application (such as meeting LOD Cloud requirements)
Phil Archer: There is a difference between conforming to vocab vs conforming to application (such as meeting LOD Cloud requirements) ←
14:22:33 <bhyland> * has added some language beyond the boilerplate Conformance section and we're discussing it.
Bernadette Hyland: * has added some language beyond the boilerplate Conformance section and we're discussing it. ←
14:23:08 <PhilA2> olyerickson: It's not the vocab designers' brief to design the specify the requirements for getting into the application
John Erickson: It's not the vocab designers' brief to design the specify the requirements for getting into the application [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
14:23:16 <bhyland> q+
Bernadette Hyland: q+ ←
14:23:58 <olyerickson> * George: Notion of standard is diluted if anyone can use it in any way they see fit. But that's the deal
* George: Notion of standard is diluted if anyone can use it in any way they see fit. But that's the deal ←
14:24:24 <olyerickson> * sandro: We don't know what the applications will be/need. So hard to talk about it
* sandro: We don't know what the applications will be/need. So hard to talk about it ←
14:24:27 <PhilA2> * Example: CKAN is an application that will define mandatory fields
Phil Archer: * Example: CKAN is an application that will define mandatory fields ←
14:24:36 <PhilA2> * Example: EU's Joinup platform will do this for ADMS
Phil Archer: * Example: EU's Joinup platform will do this for ADMS ←
14:24:40 <bhyland> +1
Bernadette Hyland: +1 ←
14:24:49 <bhyland> to what you just said PhilA2
Bernadette Hyland: to what you just said PhilA2 ←
14:25:17 <olyerickson> sandro: Could do: create a "matrix" illustrating what terms are often consumed, what terms are rarely used.
Sandro Hawke: Could do: create a "matrix" illustrating what terms are often consumed, what terms are rarely used. ←
14:25:56 <olyerickson> sandro: If you don't know what the specific usage is, you don't know what to include/not include
Sandro Hawke: If you don't know what the specific usage is, you don't know what to include/not include ←
14:26:12 <olyerickson> * try really hard to include everything you have
* try really hard to include everything you have ←
14:26:33 <Zakim> -boris
Zakim IRC Bot: -boris ←
14:26:34 <olyerickson> bhyland: GLD is in the best practices business
Bernadette Hyland: GLD is in the best practices business ←
14:26:38 <PhilA2> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
14:26:44 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas ←
14:26:49 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me ←
14:26:49 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
14:26:56 <George> q?
George Thomas: q? ←
14:27:02 <olyerickson> sandro: WG's such as GLD can provide strong/helpful advice
Sandro Hawke: WG's such as GLD can provide strong/helpful advice ←
14:27:10 <olyerickson> * to application developers
* to application developers ←
14:27:32 <olyerickson> PhilA2: Happy to include, "Include as much data as you can"
Phil Archer: Happy to include, "Include as much data as you can" ←
14:27:40 <olyerickson> * Specific applications in mind
* Specific applications in mind ←
14:27:52 <sandro> sandro: adivce people to publish using all the properties you can, and consume in a way that works even with lots of fields missing.
Sandro Hawke: adivce people to publish using all the properties you can, and consume in a way that works even with lots of fields missing. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:28:05 <olyerickson> ** CKAN: "If you want your data to appear on any CKAN portal, you must include these terms"
** CKAN: "If you want your data to appear on any CKAN portal, you must include these terms" ←
14:28:22 <olyerickson> ** EC "JoinUp" Platform: Same is true
** EC "JoinUp" Platform: Same is true ←
14:28:46 <olyerickson> ** Example: if description less than five terms, submission rejected
** Example: if description less than five terms, submission rejected ←
14:29:19 <olyerickson> * PhilA2: App/Service designers entitled; not part of vocab designers job
* PhilA2: App/Service designers entitled; not part of vocab designers job ←
14:29:23 <HadleyBeeman> :)
Hadley Beeman: :) ←
14:29:27 <cygri> :-)
Richard Cyganiak: :-) ←
14:29:49 <DeirdreLee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
14:29:53 <DeirdreLee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
14:29:55 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
14:29:55 <PhilA2> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
14:30:11 <olyerickson> * PhilA2: "This specification does not specify what you must do"
* PhilA2: "This specification does not specify what you must do" ←
14:30:12 <PhilA2> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
14:30:21 <HadleyBeeman> Isn't the point of establishing standards that we find the points of commonality? Each app/implementation may have additional requirements, no?
Hadley Beeman: Isn't the point of establishing standards that we find the points of commonality? Each app/implementation may have additional requirements, no? ←
14:31:01 <George> ack bhyland
George Thomas: ack bhyland ←
14:31:28 <olyerickson> * bhyland: PhilA2, please make it bulleted to make it more accessible; also, make conditionals more consistent/parsable
* bhyland: PhilA2, please make it bulleted to make it more accessible; also, make conditionals more consistent/parsable ←
14:31:32 <PhilA2> action: Phil to tidy up the conformance language, preferably with bullet points
ACTION: Phil to tidy up the conformance language, preferably with bullet points ←
14:31:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Tidy up the conformance language, preferably with bullet points [on Phil Archer - due 2012-09-20].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-76 - Tidy up the conformance language, preferably with bullet points [on Phil Archer - due 2012-09-20]. ←
14:31:53 <olyerickson> * DeirdreLee: Agrees with what has been discussed
* DeirdreLee: Agrees with what has been discussed ←
14:32:11 <bhyland> @PhilA2, please consider using same *format* as http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/#conformance
Bernadette Hyland: @PhilA2, please consider using same *format* as http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/#conformance ←
14:32:27 <olyerickson> ** Consider including word-of-warning, to indicate possible application requirements
** Consider including word-of-warning, to indicate possible application requirements ←
14:32:37 <George> ack DeirdreLee
George Thomas: ack DeirdreLee ←
14:32:40 <olyerickson> * Is conformance section required?
* Is conformance section required? ←
14:32:49 <George> ack cygri
George Thomas: ack cygri ←
14:32:55 <olyerickson> * cygri: Yes. But there are plenty that don't
* cygri: Yes. But there are plenty that don't ←
14:33:11 <olyerickson> * sandro: Makes perfect sense, from a "meaning" standpoinbt
* sandro: Makes perfect sense, from a "meaning" standpoinbt ←
14:33:26 <olyerickson> ** There is some inherent notion of conformance
** There is some inherent notion of conformance ←
14:33:34 <olyerickson> * PhilA2: There is another issue
* PhilA2: There is another issue ←
14:33:42 <olyerickson> ** Come back to it
** Come back to it ←
14:33:49 <bhyland> For example, People and Data Cube both need to get a Conformance section...
Bernadette Hyland: For example, People and Data Cube both need to get a Conformance section... ←
14:33:50 <olyerickson> * cygri: A couple points
* cygri: A couple points ←
14:34:08 <olyerickson> ** Dublin Core: Has notion of "Application Profile."
** Dublin Core: Has notion of "Application Profile." ←
14:34:20 <olyerickson> ** e.g. "using DC in this particular way"
** e.g. "using DC in this particular way" ←
14:34:48 <olyerickson> ** DC doesn't dictate, but particular applications do
** DC doesn't dictate, but particular applications do ←
14:35:09 <olyerickson> ** Specialization of properties, etc
** Specialization of properties, etc ←
14:35:34 <PhilA2> An example DC Application Profile http://dublincore.org/documents/library-application-profile/index.shtml
Phil Archer: An example DC Application Profile http://dublincore.org/documents/library-application-profile/index.shtml ←
14:35:39 <olyerickson> ** CKAN etal trying to define *Protocols* around vocabularies
** CKAN etal trying to define *Protocols* around vocabularies ←
14:36:06 <olyerickson> ** To actually exchange data based on these vocabs
** To actually exchange data based on these vocabs ←
14:36:20 <olyerickson> ** What's required, what's optional
** What's required, what's optional ←
14:36:59 <olyerickson> ** When we talk about conformance, need to discuss what kinds of things can conform
** When we talk about conformance, need to discuss what kinds of things can conform ←
14:37:32 <olyerickson> ** In the case of DCAT, kinds of "things" may be specifications, data APIs, etc
** In the case of DCAT, kinds of "things" may be specifications, data APIs, etc ←
14:37:51 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
14:37:59 <olyerickson> ** ie technical specifications need to use the vocab consistent with the definitions
** ie technical specifications need to use the vocab consistent with the definitions ←
14:38:03 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
14:38:20 <George> eg. federation/harvesting based on vocab + app-specific profile + protocol...
George Thomas: eg. federation/harvesting based on vocab + app-specific profile + protocol... ←
14:38:37 <olyerickson> ** We are defining something that would be used by others to define standards/interfaces
** We are defining something that would be used by others to define standards/interfaces ←
14:39:04 <olyerickson> sandro: Curious what cygri thinks about "lightweight" usage
Sandro Hawke: Curious what cygri thinks about "lightweight" usage ←
14:39:06 <George> q?
George Thomas: q? ←
14:39:32 <PhilA2> ack sandro
Phil Archer: ack sandro ←
14:39:36 <olyerickson> * cygri: There are plenty of specs "out there" that consist only of terminology
* cygri: There are plenty of specs "out there" that consist only of terminology ←
14:40:01 <olyerickson> ** Could we refer to e.g. ISO experience on 'conformance'
** Could we refer to e.g. ISO experience on 'conformance' ←
14:40:18 <olyerickson> ** possible to "certify," how do they do that?
** possible to "certify," how do they do that? ←
14:40:21 <George> certification is a key gov idea
George Thomas: certification is a key gov idea ←
14:40:41 <olyerickson> q+
q+ ←
14:40:57 <olyerickson> PhilA2: Culturally closer to DC world
Phil Archer: Culturally closer to DC world ←
14:41:31 <olyerickson> * conformance means conforming to the semantics as well
* conformance means conforming to the semantics as well ←
14:41:58 <sandro> q+ to say it's not necessarily common sense
Sandro Hawke: q+ to say it's not necessarily common sense ←
14:42:09 <George> ack olyerickson
George Thomas: ack olyerickson ←
14:42:18 <sandro> q-
Sandro Hawke: q- ←
14:42:22 <PhilA2> olyerickson: Circling back to Richard's point. We can envision data APIs that say "uses DCAT etc."
John Erickson: Circling back to Richard's point. We can envision data APIs that say "uses DCAT etc." [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
14:42:45 <PhilA2> olyerickson: Then conject that a developer will take that literally and build something based on the spec
John Erickson: Then conject that a developer will take that literally and build something based on the spec [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
14:43:26 <PhilA2> ... that's why I think it's important to flag in the spec that this is the super set, this is what could be included. This is not a required list. Please refer to the application for guidance
Phil Archer: ... that's why I think it's important to flag in the spec that this is the super set, this is what could be included. This is not a required list. Please refer to the application for guidance ←
14:43:32 <PhilA2> PhilA2: +1 to olyerickson
Phil Archer: +1 to olyerickson [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
14:44:55 <PhilA2> olyerickson: Adopters might be very lightweight on what they use. They should be clear. People with queryable interfaces need to be clear on what is required and optional
John Erickson: Adopters might be very lightweight on what they use. They should be clear. People with queryable interfaces need to be clear on what is required and optional [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
14:45:26 <olyerickson> bhyland: Does this clarify? Is this enough?
Bernadette Hyland: Does this clarify? Is this enough? ←
14:45:41 <olyerickson> PhilA2: yes...thinks he knows what he'll say
Phil Archer: yes...thinks he knows what he'll say ←
14:46:09 <olyerickson> Topic: Otherwise very Loosely Derived Agenda Items
14:46:34 <olyerickson> * George: since we have cygri, recap DCAT resolution?
* George: since we have cygri, recap DCAT resolution? ←
14:46:56 <olyerickson> ** George: Does anyone recall DCAT resolution?
** George: Does anyone recall DCAT resolution? ←
14:47:03 <bhyland> @George - how about remaining Business Core vocab issues raised by email (this week) to allow Phil to complete actions assigned last week ...
Bernadette Hyland: @George - how about remaining Business Core vocab issues raised by email (this week) to allow Phil to complete actions assigned last week ... ←
14:47:32 <olyerickson> * PhilA2 and George searching for applicable minutes
* PhilA2 and George searching for applicable minutes ←
14:47:33 <PhilA2> This one http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-07-26
Phil Archer: This one http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-07-26 ←
14:48:38 <olyerickson> * PhilA2 Subclasses, classes, resources, distributions, oh my!
* PhilA2 Subclasses, classes, resources, distributions, oh my! ←
14:48:54 <olyerickson> Topic: Business Core Vocab
14:49:05 <Zakim> -GeraldSteeman
Zakim IRC Bot: -GeraldSteeman ←
14:49:16 <olyerickson> * bhyland: PhilA2 wants to get (this) up in W3C namespace
* bhyland: PhilA2 wants to get (this) up in W3C namespace ←
14:49:49 <PhilA2> Currently we have http://www.w3.org/ns/legal
Phil Archer: Currently we have http://www.w3.org/ns/legal ←
14:50:17 <olyerickson> PhilA2: Placeholder page that says 'It's coming..."
Phil Archer: Placeholder page that says 'It's coming..." ←
14:50:35 <olyerickson> * Currently being used by OpenCorporates, swedish govt etc
* Currently being used by OpenCorporates, swedish govt etc ←
14:50:49 <olyerickson> * Following comments, an updated version of ADMS coming
* Following comments, an updated version of ADMS coming ←
14:50:52 <bhyland> So the current Business Core Vocab in ED form, is here dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/
Bernadette Hyland: So the current Business Core Vocab in ED form, is here dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/ ←
14:51:31 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to clearer
Hadley Beeman: +1 to clearer ←
14:51:35 <olyerickson> PhilA2: "legal" because of "legal entity"
Phil Archer: "legal" because of "legal entity" ←
14:51:38 <sandro> +1 legal-entity
Sandro Hawke: +1 legal-entity ←
14:52:03 <sandro> yeah -- maybe merge this and make it org 2.0 ?
Sandro Hawke: yeah -- maybe merge this and make it org 2.0 ? ←
14:52:11 <olyerickson> bhyland: PhilA2 is mixing things
Bernadette Hyland: PhilA2 is mixing things ←
14:52:28 <olyerickson> * Naming should be closer to what it is
* Naming should be closer to what it is ←
14:52:53 <olyerickson> * Term "legal" is too broad (so is "legal entity" but that's the deal)
* Term "legal" is too broad (so is "legal entity" but that's the deal) ←
14:53:28 <olyerickson> sandro: Example: W3C (may or may not be "legal entity"
Sandro Hawke: Example: W3C (may or may not be "legal entity" ←
14:53:32 <sandro> W3C most certainly does exist as an organization, but not a legal-entity.
Sandro Hawke: W3C most certainly does exist as an organization, but not a legal-entity. ←
14:54:20 <olyerickson> bhyland: Whole issue of OpenCorporates utilization is separate issue
Bernadette Hyland: Whole issue of OpenCorporates utilization is separate issue ←
14:54:37 <PhilA2> nothing to apologise for!
Phil Archer: nothing to apologise for! ←
14:54:53 <HadleyBeeman> I've been concerned about court data as well, bhyland
Hadley Beeman: I've been concerned about court data as well, bhyland ←
14:55:24 <olyerickson> PhilA2: This kind of issue is part of the "learning curve"
Phil Archer: This kind of issue is part of the "learning curve" ←
14:55:26 <bhyland> @Hadley, right, court data, licenses, all are "legal" mega categories.
Bernadette Hyland: @Hadley, right, court data, licenses, all are "legal" mega categories. ←
14:55:38 <olyerickson> * changing the namespace is a legitimate part of that learning curve
* changing the namespace is a legitimate part of that learning curve ←
14:55:59 <olyerickson> bhyland: So, what are next steps? Feedback?
Bernadette Hyland: So, what are next steps? Feedback? ←
14:56:08 <olyerickson> PhilA2: Two separate documents
Phil Archer: Two separate documents ←
14:56:13 <olyerickson> * Spec will be...
* Spec will be... ←
14:56:15 <PhilA2> specification /TR/vocab-legal-entity
Phil Archer: specification /TR/vocab-legal-entity ←
14:56:24 <olyerickson> * Namespace will be...
* Namespace will be... ←
14:56:26 <bhyland> +1, I'm OK with that
Bernadette Hyland: +1, I'm OK with that ←
14:56:28 <PhilA2> namespace logically is therefore /ns/legal-entity
Phil Archer: namespace logically is therefore /ns/legal-entity ←
14:56:59 <olyerickson> PhilA2: "horse in front of the cart..."
Phil Archer: "horse in front of the cart..." ←
14:57:08 <bhyland> PhilA2: First issue (TR one) is trivial to fix. The second one, (ns/) is harder to change ...
Phil Archer: First issue (TR one) is trivial to fix. The second one, (ns/) is harder to change ... [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←
14:58:18 <olyerickson> bhyland: If you develop a system based on a proto vocab et.al....that's the risk you take
Bernadette Hyland: If you develop a system based on a proto vocab et.al....that's the risk you take ←
14:58:47 <olyerickson> +1 to early adopter usage being a sign of goodness
+1 to early adopter usage being a sign of goodness ←
14:58:47 <sandro> +1 bhyland -- we can't be held to be compatible with decisions we haven't made
Sandro Hawke: +1 bhyland -- we can't be held to be compatible with decisions we haven't made ←
14:59:08 <olyerickson> +1 to sandro to bhyland
+1 to sandro to bhyland ←
14:59:20 <olyerickson> PhilA2: In that case...
Phil Archer: In that case... ←
14:59:21 <bhyland> … +1 to sandro & John ;-)
Bernadette Hyland: … +1 to sandro & John ;-) ←
14:59:49 <olyerickson> * the group is happy for vocab to be know as the legal entity vocabulary
* the group is happy for vocab to be know as the legal entity vocabulary ←
14:59:51 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to the name changes. Sounds good to me.
Hadley Beeman: +1 to the name changes. Sounds good to me. ←
14:59:52 <George> +1
George Thomas: +1 ←
15:00:02 <olyerickson> * namespace should reflect both of those words
* namespace should reflect both of those words ←
15:00:04 <bhyland> Resolved: The vocabulary known as Business Core Vocabulary is now being changed to the "Legal Entity Vocabulary"
RESOLVED: The vocabulary known as Business Core Vocabulary is now being changed to the "Legal Entity Vocabulary" ←
15:00:07 <bhyland> +1
Bernadette Hyland: +1 ←
15:00:19 <olyerickson> George: All right, then!
George Thomas: All right, then! ←
15:00:27 <HadleyBeeman> q+
Hadley Beeman: q+ ←
15:00:38 <HadleyBeeman> hang on… finding mute
Hadley Beeman: hang on… finding mute ←
15:00:41 <bhyland> Resolved: The namespace previously known as /ns/legal shall be moved to /ns/legal-entity
RESOLVED: The namespace previously known as /ns/legal shall be moved to /ns/legal-entity ←
15:00:44 <bhyland> +1
Bernadette Hyland: +1 ←
15:01:04 <PhilA2> PhilA2: I'd like to record my talks to the chairs for giving these issues time today
Phil Archer: I'd like to record my talks to the chairs for giving these issues time today [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
15:01:06 <olyerickson> HadleyBeeman: very hard to hear comments on Open data Initiative
Hadley Beeman: very hard to hear comments on Open data Initiative ←
15:01:22 <olyerickson> * Scribe literally can't hear HadleyBeeman
* Scribe literally can't hear HadleyBeeman ←
15:01:24 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: Alluncing Gavin Sparks as CEO and Jeni Tennison as CTO of the Open data Institute
Hadley Beeman: Announcing Gavin Sparks as CEO and Jeni Tennison as CTO of the Open data Institute [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
15:01:34 <PhilA2> s/Alluncing/Announcing/
15:01:54 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: Hoping that Jeni or a member of her team to join this WG
Hadley Beeman: Hoping that Jeni or a member of her team to join this WG [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
15:01:56 <George> really great news!
George Thomas: really great news! ←
15:02:08 <bhyland> Congratulations for all of you & for sharing this with us Hadley!
Bernadette Hyland: Congratulations for all of you & for sharing this with us Hadley! ←
15:02:22 <olyerickson> Awesome to have THE JeniT involved in this work!
Awesome to have THE JeniT involved in this work! ←
15:02:30 <George> q?
George Thomas: q? ←
15:02:34 <George> ack HadleyBeeman
George Thomas: ack HadleyBeeman ←
15:02:34 <HadleyBeeman> q-
Hadley Beeman: q- ←
15:02:37 <olyerickson> Topic: Pre-Adjournment?
15:02:40 <olyerickson> None
None ←
15:02:49 <bhyland> @PhilA2 thanks for moving these issues forward. Thanks all for input on vocabs … we made progress :-)
Bernadette Hyland: @PhilA2 thanks for moving these issues forward. Thanks all for input on vocabs … we made progress :-) ←
15:02:57 <olyerickson> Have a great one
Have a great one ←
15:03:00 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
Zakim IRC Bot: -HadleyBeeman ←
15:03:01 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:03:01 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
15:03:01 <Zakim> -bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: -bhyland ←
15:03:01 <Zakim> -Yigal
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yigal ←
15:03:09 <Zakim> -DeirdreLee
Zakim IRC Bot: -DeirdreLee ←
15:03:12 <Zakim> -PhilA2
Zakim IRC Bot: -PhilA2 ←
15:03:31 <George> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
George Thomas: RRSAgent, set logs world-visible ←
15:03:45 <George> RRSAgent, generate minutes
George Thomas: RRSAgent, generate minutes ←
15:03:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-gld-minutes.html George
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-gld-minutes.html George ←
15:06:34 <Zakim> -olyerickson
Zakim IRC Bot: -olyerickson ←
15:06:35 <Zakim> -George_Thomas
Zakim IRC Bot: -George_Thomas ←
15:06:36 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended ←
15:06:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, George_Thomas, +1.757.604.aaaa, olyerickson, DeirdreLee, GeraldSteeman, bhyland, PhilA2, Yigal, +1.440.389.aacc, HadleyBeeman, +34.60.062.aadd, boris, cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Sandro, George_Thomas, +1.757.604.aaaa, olyerickson, DeirdreLee, GeraldSteeman, bhyland, PhilA2, Yigal, +1.440.389.aacc, HadleyBeeman, +34.60.062.aadd, boris, cygri ←
Formatted by CommonScribe