Meeting Record

DWBP Face to Face 3, Day 1

Minutes of 13 April 2015

Agenda

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/April_2015_F2F#Agenda

Seen

Annette Greiner, Antoine Isaac, Bernadette Farias Loscio, Carlos Laufer, Deirdre Lee, Eric Stephan, Flavio Yanai, Giancarlo Guizzardi, Gisele Pappa, Hadley Beeman, Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto, Makx Dekkers, Phil Archer, Riccardo Albertoni, Sumit Purohit, Unknown Austin, Unknown Ipswich, Unknown austincomputer, Unknown newton, Unknown newton_, Yaso Córdova

Chair

Deirdre Lee

Scribe

Hadley Beeman, Annette Greiner, Phil Archer, Eric Stephan, Bernadette Farias Loscio, Yaso Córdova, Unknown Newton

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

Close issue 76 link
Close issue 76 link
Close issue 79. ACtion on BP editors to add BO for structural metadata link
CLOSE ISSUE-84 link
That we include concrete standards from W3C but that we leave it open for other standards to be used as well link
that we use two general metadata best practices, one to say that people should provide metadata and one to say to use standard terms, and then to provide other BPs for specific metadata. link
The the structure at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata on 2015-04-13 is fine link
close 139 as new teplate overrides it. link
Mark as Resolved Partial and action on BernadetteLoscio to contact Andrea and let him know about the new wording link
We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions and perhaps highlighting ones that didn't make the cut. link
That the data quality work is explicitly mentioned in the data Quality section of the BP document link
That we put the word 'granularity' on ice until and unless we need it link
Let data quality editors look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions link
We have one best practice for versioning that can be applied to dataset and vocabulary link
That we state that the boundaries between metadata, dataset and vocabulary is not always clear, however, we have the following mental models in mind... and then talk about the three link

Topics

Best Practices (for one hour)
Quality discussion
Comments
Quality issues
Best Practices
Data Versioning

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11:44:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc ←

11:44:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs 351 ←

11:45:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be DWBP ←

11:45:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DATA_DWBP()8:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DATA_DWBP()8:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes ←

11:45:01 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

11:45:01 <trackbot> Date: 13 April 2015

11:57:57 <deirdrelee> Hi Antoine

(No events recorded for 12 minutes)

Deirdre Lee: Hi Antoine ←

11:58:19 <phila> zakim, code?

Phil Archer: zakim, code? ←

11:58:19 <Zakim> the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), phila

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), phila ←

11:58:20 <deirdrelee> sitting in Phil's sunny conservatory :) Waiting for Austin team

Deirdre Lee: sitting in Phil's sunny conservatory :) Waiting for Austin team ←

11:58:35 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()8:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()8:00AM has now started ←

11:58:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

11:58:45 <phila> zakim, [ is Ipswich

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Ipswich ←

11:58:45 <Zakim> +Ipswich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ipswich; got it ←

11:58:55 <phila> zakim, Ipswich has deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni

Phil Archer: zakim, Ipswich has deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni ←

11:58:55 <Zakim> +deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni; got it ←

11:59:05 <phila> zakim, ipswich has phila

Phil Archer: zakim, ipswich has phila ←

11:59:05 <Zakim> +phila; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +phila; got it ←

11:59:10 <phila> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←

11:59:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich ←

11:59:12 <Zakim> Ipswich has phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has phila ←

11:59:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see antoine, RiccardoAlbertoni, Zakim, RRSAgent, deirdrelee, phila, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see antoine, RiccardoAlbertoni, Zakim, RRSAgent, deirdrelee, phila, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:00:52 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:01:03 <antoine> zakim, IPcaller is me

Antoine Isaac: zakim, IPcaller is me ←

12:01:03 <Zakim> +antoine; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +antoine; got it ←

12:01:26 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: +HadleyBeeman ←

12:02:42 <hadleybeeman> zakim, who is here?

Hadley Beeman: zakim, who is here? ←

12:02:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, antoine, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, antoine, HadleyBeeman ←

12:02:44 <Zakim> Ipswich has phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has phila ←

12:02:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Makx_Dekkers, antoine, RiccardoAlbertoni, Zakim, RRSAgent, deirdrelee, phila, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Makx_Dekkers, antoine, RiccardoAlbertoni, Zakim, RRSAgent, deirdrelee, phila, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:03:30 <RiccardoAlbertoni> i will survive don't worry :)

Riccardo Albertoni: i will survive don't worry :) ←

12:04:05 <Zakim> -Ipswich

Scribe problem: the name 'Ipswich' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adriano Veloso Adriano Pereira Amy Guy Ana Salgado Annette Greiner Antoine Isaac Bart van Leeuwen Bernadette Farias Loscio Carlos Iglesias Carlos Tejo Carlos Laufer Caroline Burle Christophe Gueret Daniel Schwabe Deirdre Lee Elie SLOÏM Eric Kauz Eric Stephan Erik Mannens Flavio Yanai Ghislain Atemezing Giancarlo Guizzardi Gisele Pappa Gustavo Suárez Volpe Hadley Beeman Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Ingo Simonis Jeremy Debattista Joao Almeida Kangchan Lee Kiev Santos da Gama Lewis Mcgibbney Makx Dekkers Manuel Carrasco Benitez Mark Harrison Martín Álvarez Michel Dumontier Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício Phil Archer Raphaël Troncy Riccardo Albertoni Seiji Isotani Silvia Da Rosa Steven Adler Sumit Purohit Vagner Diniz Vinh Nguyen Wagner Meira Jr. William Mischo William Smith Yaso Córdova victoria koster Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ipswich ←

12:04:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:04:48 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim ipcaler is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim ipcaler is me ←

12:05:24 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim, ipcaller is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, ipcaller is me ←

12:05:24 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers; got it ←

12:06:05 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee phila RiccardoAlbertoni — we seem to have lost you?

Hadley Beeman: deirdrelee phila RiccardoAlbertoni — we seem to have lost you? ←

12:08:33 <deirdrelee_> Phil's rewiring his house...

Deirdre Lee: Phil's rewiring his house... ←

12:08:51 <deirdrelee_> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

12:08:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers ←

12:08:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see austincomputer, phila_, deirdrelee_, Makx_Dekkers, antoine, RiccardoAlbertoni, Zakim, RRSAgent, deirdrelee, phila, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see austincomputer, phila_, deirdrelee_, Makx_Dekkers, antoine, RiccardoAlbertoni, Zakim, RRSAgent, deirdrelee, phila, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:09:08 <austincomputer> Hi all, just getting on line with our austin AV system

Scribe problem: the name 'austincomputer' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adriano Veloso Adriano Pereira Amy Guy Ana Salgado Annette Greiner Antoine Isaac Bart van Leeuwen Bernadette Farias Loscio Carlos Iglesias Carlos Tejo Carlos Laufer Caroline Burle Christophe Gueret Daniel Schwabe Deirdre Lee Elie SLOÏM Eric Kauz Eric Stephan Erik Mannens Flavio Yanai Ghislain Atemezing Giancarlo Guizzardi Gisele Pappa Gustavo Suárez Volpe Hadley Beeman Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Ingo Simonis Jeremy Debattista Joao Almeida Kangchan Lee Kiev Santos da Gama Lewis Mcgibbney Makx Dekkers Manuel Carrasco Benitez Mark Harrison Martín Álvarez Michel Dumontier Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício Phil Archer Raphaël Troncy Riccardo Albertoni Seiji Isotani Silvia Da Rosa Steven Adler Sumit Purohit Vagner Diniz Vinh Nguyen Wagner Meira Jr. William Mischo William Smith Yaso Córdova victoria koster Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown austincomputer: Hi all, just getting on line with our austin AV system ←

12:09:20 <deirdrelee_> Hi AustinComputer!

Deirdre Lee: Hi AustinComputer! ←

12:09:21 <austincomputer> (this is Eric S)

Unknown austincomputer: (this is Eric S) ←

12:09:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:09:28 <austincomputer> :-)

Unknown austincomputer: :-) ←

12:09:30 <phila_> zakim, [ is Ipswich

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Ipswich ←

12:09:30 <Zakim> +Ipswich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ipswich; got it ←

12:10:13 <deirdrelee_> Ok everyone, we have a live zakim line and we will have skype online too so that you can see us :)

Deirdre Lee: Ok everyone, we have a live zakim line and we will have skype online too so that you can see us :) ←

12:10:24 <deirdrelee_> my skype id is deirdrelee

Deirdre Lee: my skype id is deirdrelee ←

12:12:13 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public

Phil Archer: RRSAgent, make logs public ←

12:12:50 <phila> zakim, Ipswich has deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila

Phil Archer: zakim, Ipswich has deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila ←

12:12:50 <Zakim> +deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila; got it ←

12:12:54 <phila> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←

12:12:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, Ipswich ←

12:12:56 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila ←

12:12:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers, antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers, antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:17:55 <ericstephan> Good morningish everyone

Eric Stephan: Good morningish everyone ←

12:17:59 <deirdrelee> it's meant to

Deirdre Lee: it's meant to ←

12:18:16 <deirdrelee> good morning/afternoon ericstephan

Deirdre Lee: good morning/afternoon ericstephan ←

12:19:04 <deirdrelee> Can you hear ipswich?

Deirdre Lee: Can you hear ipswich? ←

12:19:11 <laufer> good morning/afternoon all

Carlos Laufer: good morning/afternoon all ←

12:19:30 <ericstephan> Good day would be more appropriate I guess :-)

Eric Stephan: Good day would be more appropriate I guess :-) ←

12:20:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:22:04 <ericstephan> ericphb@gmail.com

Eric Stephan: ericphb@gmail.com ←

12:27:15 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

12:28:40 <BernadetteLoscio>  https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g4vna23i4mz4l6doovo34sysm4a

Bernadette Farias Loscio: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g4vna23i4mz4l6doovo34sysm4a ←

12:30:15 <phila> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←

12:30:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, Ipswich ←

12:30:17 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, riccardoAlbertoni, phila ←

12:30:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers, ←

12:30:17 <Zakim> ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:30:30 <phila> We've lost Austin on Zakim

Phil Archer: We've lost Austin on Zakim ←

12:30:59 <phila> antoine, we're only trying to use the hangout for video

Phil Archer: antoine, we're only trying to use the hangout for video ←

12:31:08 <ericstephan> Hi phila we switched over to google chat

Eric Stephan: Hi phila we switched over to google chat ←

12:31:28 <phila> Yeah, Eric, but we have Antoine and Makx on zakim...

Phil Archer: Yeah, Eric, but we have Antoine and Makx on zakim... ←

12:32:10 <ericstephan> ok...

Eric Stephan: ok... ←

12:32:19 <ericstephan> just a sec...

Eric Stephan: just a sec... ←

12:33:06 <ericstephan> Reconnecting...

Eric Stephan: Reconnecting... ←

12:33:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:33:34 <phila> zakim, [ is Austin

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Austin ←

12:33:34 <Zakim> +Austin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Austin; got it ←

12:34:14 <ericstephan> My only concern is Antoine and Makx being able to hear everyone else, Antoine and Makx let us know if you can't hear Austin

Eric Stephan: My only concern is Antoine and Makx being able to hear everyone else, Antoine and Makx let us know if you can't hear Austin ←

12:34:43 <Makx_Dekkers> i cant hear austin

Makx Dekkers: i cant hear austin ←

12:35:00 <Makx_Dekkers> lots of  echo

Makx Dekkers: lots of echo ←

12:35:06 <antoine> I can hear Ipswich and Austin only when one person speaks

Antoine Isaac: I can hear Ipswich and Austin only when one person speaks ←

12:35:07 <Zakim> -Austin

Scribe problem: the name 'Austin' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adriano Veloso Adriano Pereira Amy Guy Ana Salgado Annette Greiner Antoine Isaac Bart van Leeuwen Bernadette Farias Loscio Carlos Iglesias Carlos Tejo Carlos Laufer Caroline Burle Christophe Gueret Daniel Schwabe Deirdre Lee Elie SLOÏM Eric Kauz Eric Stephan Erik Mannens Flavio Yanai Ghislain Atemezing Giancarlo Guizzardi Gisele Pappa Gustavo Suárez Volpe Hadley Beeman Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Ingo Simonis Jeremy Debattista Joao Almeida Kangchan Lee Kiev Santos da Gama Lewis Mcgibbney Makx Dekkers Manuel Carrasco Benitez Mark Harrison Martín Álvarez Michel Dumontier Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício Phil Archer Raphaël Troncy Riccardo Albertoni Seiji Isotani Silvia Da Rosa Steven Adler Sumit Purohit Vagner Diniz Vinh Nguyen Wagner Meira Jr. William Mischo William Smith Yaso Córdova victoria koster Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Austin ←

12:35:36 <Makx_Dekkers> i can hear you

Makx Dekkers: i can hear you ←

12:35:41 <Zakim> +ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan ←

12:35:43 <Zakim> -ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan ←

12:36:05 <Zakim> +ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan ←

12:37:31 <ericstephan> connecting the old fashioned way by iphone

Eric Stephan: connecting the old fashioned way by iphone ←

12:39:16 <ericstephan> yes it is clear

Eric Stephan: yes it is clear ←

12:39:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:39:39 <deirdrelee> Start agenda with BP, after one hour, go back to quality vocab discussion, when makx and antoine are present, then return to bp

Deirdre Lee: Start agenda with BP, after one hour, go back to quality vocab discussion, when makx and antoine are present, then return to bp ←

12:39:46 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, ipcaller is BernadetteLoscio

Bernadette Farias Loscio: zakim, ipcaller is BernadetteLoscio ←

12:39:46 <Zakim> +BernadetteLoscio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +BernadetteLoscio; got it ←

12:40:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:40:42 <Zakim> -ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan ←

12:40:56 <laufer> ...

Carlos Laufer: ... ←

12:40:58 <Zakim> -Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ipswich ←

12:41:05 <yaso> Zakim, IPcaller is austincomputer

Yaso Córdova: Zakim, IPcaller is austincomputer ←

12:41:05 <Zakim> +austincomputer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +austincomputer; got it ←

12:41:45 <deirdrelee> Add your name to scribe for one hour: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/April_2015_F2F

Deirdre Lee: Add your name to scribe for one hour: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/April_2015_F2F ←

12:42:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:42:48 <phila> zakim, [ is Ipswich

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Ipswich ←

12:42:48 <Zakim> +Ipswich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ipswich; got it ←

12:42:50 <yaso> we just made a new decoration of the room

Yaso Córdova: we just made a new decoration of the room ←

12:43:09 <hadleybeeman> yaso, you're redecorating? :)

Hadley Beeman: yaso, you're redecorating? :) ←

12:43:12 <phila> zakim, Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila

Phil Archer: zakim, Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila ←

12:43:12 <Zakim> +riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila; got it ←

12:43:17 <phila> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←

12:43:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, BernadetteLoscio, austincomputer, Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, BernadetteLoscio, austincomputer, Ipswich ←

12:43:19 <Zakim> Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila ←

12:43:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers, ←

12:43:19 <Zakim> ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:43:50 <yaso> hadleybeeman:  no, It was Summit idea :)

Hadley Beeman: no, It was Summit idea :) [ Scribe Assist by Yaso Córdova ] ←

12:44:19 <hadleybeeman> @yaso: that's lovely :)

Hadley Beeman: @yaso: that's lovely :) ←

12:45:37 <deirdrelee> Please add name to scribe before we start!!

Deirdre Lee: Please add name to scribe before we start!! ←

12:45:48 <deirdrelee> no austin team volunteers yet....

Deirdre Lee: no austin team volunteers yet.... ←

12:46:31 <annette_g> I can scribe

Annette Greiner: I can scribe ←

12:47:03 <annette_g> Should I sign up for 9:00?

Annette Greiner: Should I sign up for 9:00? ←

12:47:54 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

12:47:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, BernadetteLoscio, austincomputer, Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, BernadetteLoscio, austincomputer, Ipswich ←

12:47:56 <Zakim> Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila ←

12:47:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers, ←

12:47:56 <Zakim> ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:50:02 <phila> Can Austin hear Ipswich?

Phil Archer: Can Austin hear Ipswich? ←

12:50:17 <BernadetteLoscio> hi phil!

Bernadette Farias Loscio: hi phil! ←

12:50:29 <phila> Can you hear us BernadetteLoscio?

Phil Archer: Can you hear us BernadetteLoscio? ←

12:50:31 <hadleybeeman> ericstephan BernadetteLoscio can you hear us on the phone?

Hadley Beeman: ericstephan BernadetteLoscio can you hear us on the phone? ←

12:50:33 <BernadetteLoscio> yes

Bernadette Farias Loscio: yes ←

12:50:35 <laufer> not yet, phil

Carlos Laufer: not yet, phil ←

12:50:35 <BernadetteLoscio> i can hera

Bernadette Farias Loscio: i can hera ←

12:50:36 <BernadetteLoscio> hear

Bernadette Farias Loscio: hear ←

12:50:50 <annette_g> Eric is hooking up the hangout

Annette Greiner: Eric is hooking up the hangout ←

12:51:22 <phila> Thanks annette_g

Phil Archer: Thanks annette_g ←

12:51:34 <Zakim> -austincomputer

Zakim IRC Bot: -austincomputer ←

12:51:51 <laufer> we have hi-lo tech in this f2f

Carlos Laufer: we have hi-lo tech in this f2f ←

12:51:56 <hadleybeeman> While we're waiting for Austin to get on the phone... please sign up for an hour to scribe! https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/April_2015_F2F#Agenda

Hadley Beeman: While we're waiting for Austin to get on the phone... please sign up for an hour to scribe! https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/April_2015_F2F#Agenda ←

12:53:09 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, austincomputer has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio

Bernadette Farias Loscio: zakim, austincomputer has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio ←

12:53:09 <Zakim> sorry, BernadetteLoscio, I do not recognize a party named 'austincomputer'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, BernadetteLoscio, I do not recognize a party named 'austincomputer' ←

12:54:12 <BernadetteLoscio> Gisele

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Gisele ←

12:54:28 <phila> zakim, BernadetteLoscio has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, Newton, Gisele, Sumit

Phil Archer: zakim, BernadetteLoscio has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, Newton, Gisele, Sumit ←

12:54:28 <Zakim> +annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, Newton, Gisele, Sumit; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, Newton, Gisele, Sumit; got it ←

12:54:34 <phila> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←

12:54:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, BernadetteLoscio, Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, BernadetteLoscio, Ipswich ←

12:54:37 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, Newton, Gisele, Sumit

Zakim IRC Bot: BernadetteLoscio has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, Newton, Gisele, Sumit ←

12:54:37 <Zakim> Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila ←

12:54:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see annette_g, flavio, yaso, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, deirdrelee, Makx_Dekkers, ←

12:54:38 <Zakim> ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

12:54:56 <hadleybeeman> scribe: hadleybeeman

(Scribe set to Hadley Beeman)

12:54:58 <phila> zakim, list participants

Phil Archer: zakim, list participants ←

12:54:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni, phila, antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, Austin, ericstephan, austincomputer, [IPcaller], annette_g,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni, phila, antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, Austin, ericstephan, austincomputer, [IPcaller], annette_g, ←

12:55:01 <Zakim> ... laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, yaso, Gisele, Sumit

Zakim IRC Bot: ... laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, yaso, Gisele, Sumit ←

12:55:52 <annette_g> lewis is out of the room for an hour or so

Annette Greiner: lewis is out of the room for an hour or so ←

12:56:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

12:56:41 <BernadetteLoscio> yes :):):)

Bernadette Farias Loscio: yes :):):) ←

12:56:56 <Zakim> -BernadetteLoscio

Zakim IRC Bot: -BernadetteLoscio ←

12:57:13 <yaso> One hour!

Yaso Córdova: One hour! ←

12:57:13 <phila> zakim, [ is Austin

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Austin ←

12:57:13 <Zakim> +Austin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Austin; got it ←

12:57:47 <phila> zakim, Austin has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele

Phil Archer: zakim, Austin has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele ←

12:57:47 <Zakim> +annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele; got it ←

12:58:03 <Makx_Dekkers> going to be disconnecting voice for a while

Makx Dekkers: going to be disconnecting voice for a while ←

12:58:18 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers ←

12:58:24 <hadleybeeman> topic: Best Practices (for one hour)

1. Best Practices (for one hour)

12:58:34 <hadleybeeman> chair: deirdrelee

12:58:51 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: What we need from this meeting:

Deirdre Lee: What we need from this meeting: ←

12:59:02 <phila> Meeting: DWBP Face to Face 3, Day 1

12:59:13 <phila> regrets+ Steve

Phil Archer: regrets+ Steve ←

12:59:25 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/April_2015_F2F#Agenda

12:59:37 <hadleybeeman> ... look at our three deliverables.  We need a clear plan for the next draft of publication. We hope to have a new version of each of those by one month from now, beginning of May.

... look at our three deliverables. We need a clear plan for the next draft of publication. We hope to have a new version of each of those by one month from now, beginning of May. ←

12:59:40 <hadleybeeman> zakim, who is noisy?

zakim, who is noisy? ←

12:59:52 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (16%), Austin (36%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (16%), Austin (36%) ←

12:59:58 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: We've been building toward that. We want to get rid of all issues.

Deirdre Lee: We've been building toward that. We want to get rid of all issues. ←

13:00:05 <hadleybeeman> zakim, mute austin

zakim, mute austin ←

13:00:05 <Zakim> Austin should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Austin should now be muted ←

13:01:09 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: Goal 1: close all issues. 2: set the actions for and 3. clear plan of milestones and dates to publish the next working drafts by early May.

Deirdre Lee: Goal 1: close all issues. 2: set the actions for and 3. clear plan of milestones and dates to publish the next working drafts by early May. ←

13:01:36 <hadleybeeman> ... I put the issues together in groups https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aqkh8jJCyHn0GaPk3Xh277b5L1bQjfwDHukmWUTWryg/edit

... I put the issues together in groups https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aqkh8jJCyHn0GaPk3Xh277b5L1bQjfwDHukmWUTWryg/edit ←

13:01:46 <hadleybeeman> ... 15 minutes maximum per issue, as we agreed.

... 15 minutes maximum per issue, as we agreed. ←

13:02:47 <hadleybeeman> ... At the end of tomorrow, we can go back to ones that may be still open.  But for each issue, we read it, discuss any points.  Please be as short as you can, so everyone can discuss it. At the end, a concrete decisions of how to resolve this issue and close it.

... At the end of tomorrow, we can go back to ones that may be still open. But for each issue, we read it, discuss any points. Please be as short as you can, so everyone can discuss it. At the end, a concrete decisions of how to resolve this issue and close it. ←

13:03:30 <hadleybeeman> ... Handing over to Bernadette, Caroline and Newton to discuss these issues. I'll remind you when we have 10 minutes left and 15 minutes left, for each issue.

... Handing over to Bernadette, Caroline and Newton to discuss these issues. I'll remind you when we have 10 minutes left and 15 minutes left, for each issue. ←

13:03:35 <phila> I think we're looking at this version http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html in Berna's GH repo

Phil Archer: I think we're looking at this version http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html in Berna's GH repo ←

13:03:37 <hadleybeeman> Issue-76?

ISSUE-76? ←

13:03:37 <trackbot> Issue-76 -- What advice do we give about publishing metadata so that we identify the intended outcome without making assumptions that maybe false? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-76 -- What advice do we give about publishing metadata so that we identify the intended outcome without making assumptions that maybe false? -- open ←

13:03:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/76

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/76 ←

13:03:45 <phila> And the open issues are listed at https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/open

Phil Archer: And the open issues are listed at https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/open ←

13:03:58 <hadleybeeman> zakim, unmute austin

zakim, unmute austin ←

13:03:58 <Zakim> Austin should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Austin should no longer be muted ←

13:03:59 <phila> zakim, unmute austincomputer

Phil Archer: zakim, unmute austincomputer ←

13:04:00 <Zakim> sorry, phila, I do not know which phone connection belongs to austincomputer

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, phila, I do not know which phone connection belongs to austincomputer ←

13:04:07 <hadleybeeman> zakim, austin is austincomputer

zakim, austin is austincomputer ←

13:04:07 <Zakim> +austincomputer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +austincomputer; got it ←

13:04:07 <newton> Zakim, unmute Austin

Scribe problem: the name 'newton' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adriano Veloso Adriano Pereira Amy Guy Ana Salgado Annette Greiner Antoine Isaac Bart van Leeuwen Bernadette Farias Loscio Carlos Iglesias Carlos Tejo Carlos Laufer Caroline Burle Christophe Gueret Daniel Schwabe Deirdre Lee Elie SLOÏM Eric Kauz Eric Stephan Erik Mannens Flavio Yanai Ghislain Atemezing Giancarlo Guizzardi Gisele Pappa Gustavo Suárez Volpe Hadley Beeman Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Ingo Simonis Jeremy Debattista Joao Almeida Kangchan Lee Kiev Santos da Gama Lewis Mcgibbney Makx Dekkers Manuel Carrasco Benitez Mark Harrison Martín Álvarez Michel Dumontier Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício Phil Archer Raphaël Troncy Riccardo Albertoni Seiji Isotani Silvia Da Rosa Steven Adler Sumit Purohit Vagner Diniz Vinh Nguyen Wagner Meira Jr. William Mischo William Smith Yaso Córdova victoria koster Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown newton: Zakim, unmute Austin ←

13:04:08 <Zakim> austincomputer was not muted, newton

Zakim IRC Bot: austincomputer was not muted, newton ←

13:05:08 <hadleybeeman> zakim, who is noisy?

zakim, who is noisy? ←

13:05:19 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (12%), austincomputer (52%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (12%), austincomputer (52%) ←

13:05:21 <hadleybeeman> issue-76?

ISSUE-76? ←

13:05:21 <trackbot> issue-76 -- What advice do we give about publishing metadata so that we identify the intended outcome without making assumptions that maybe false? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-76 -- What advice do we give about publishing metadata so that we identify the intended outcome without making assumptions that maybe false? -- open ←

13:05:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/76

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/76 ←

13:05:36 <hadleybeeman> zakim, mute ipswich

zakim, mute ipswich ←

13:05:36 <Zakim> Ipswich should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich should now be muted ←

13:05:47 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio:

Bernadette Farias Loscio: ←

13:05:55 <phila> zakim, who is on the phone?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

13:05:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Ipswich (muted), austincomputer

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see antoine, HadleyBeeman, Ipswich (muted), austincomputer ←

13:05:57 <Zakim> austincomputer has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele

Zakim IRC Bot: austincomputer has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele ←

13:05:57 <Zakim> Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila ←

13:06:05 <hadleybeeman> ...This issue was opened in the last f2f. For me, it's not clear.  Hadley opened it.

...This issue was opened in the last f2f. For me, it's not clear. Hadley opened it. ←

13:06:50 <deirdrelee> Bernadette, there is echo

Deirdre Lee: Bernadette, there is echo ←

13:07:10 <hadleybeeman> In the issue, there is a link to the original discussion: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/31-dwbp-irc#T22-37-06

In the issue, there is a link to the original discussion: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/31-dwbp-irc#T22-37-06 ←

13:08:01 <antoine> zakim, who is noisy?

Antoine Isaac: zakim, who is noisy? ←

13:08:12 <Zakim> antoine, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: austincomputer (67%)

Zakim IRC Bot: antoine, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: austincomputer (67%) ←

13:08:19 <riccardoAlbertoni> zakim, unmute ipswich

Riccardo Albertoni: zakim, unmute ipswich ←

13:08:19 <Zakim> Ipswich should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich should no longer be muted ←

13:08:38 <hadleybeeman> Hadleybeeman: I think we are already addressing this. It's about making sure we don't make assumptions about the type of data that restricts what might be published.

Hadley Beeman: I think we are already addressing this. It's about making sure we don't make assumptions about the type of data that restricts what might be published. ←

13:09:16 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: We are doing this.  We are defining metadata without thinking about the data it's referring to.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: We are doing this. We are defining metadata without thinking about the data it's referring to. ←

13:09:29 <hadleybeeman> ... can we close this issue?

... can we close this issue? ←

13:09:32 <hadleybeeman> hadleybeeman: Yes

Hadley Beeman: Yes ←

13:09:37 <hadleybeeman> close issue-76

close ISSUE-76 ←

13:09:37 <trackbot> Closed issue-76.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-76. ←

13:09:47 <phila> RRSAgent, pointer?

Phil Archer: RRSAgent, pointer? ←

13:09:47 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-09-47

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-09-47 ←

13:10:04 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: We will be using the queuing system, as usual.  Put yourself on the queue if you want to talk.

Deirdre Lee: We will be using the queuing system, as usual. Put yourself on the queue if you want to talk. ←

13:10:05 <phila> RESOLUTION: Close issue 76

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-76 ←

13:10:13 <hadleybeeman> ... Move on to issue 79

... Move on to ISSUE-79 ←

13:10:19 <phila> RESOLVED: Close issue 76

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-76 ←

13:10:35 <hadleybeeman> Issue-79?

ISSUE-79? ←

13:10:35 <trackbot> Issue-79 -- Discovery vs structural metadata -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-79 -- Discovery vs structural metadata -- open ←

13:10:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/79

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/79 ←

13:10:44 <Zakim> -antoine

Zakim IRC Bot: -antoine ←

13:11:22 <phila> WE don't have any BPs about structural metadata

Phil Archer: we don't have any BPs about structural metadata ←

13:11:28 <phila> s/WE/we/

13:11:30 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: We are going to use DCAT vocabulary. But in structured metadata, we don't have a best practice right now for it.  I think discovery of metadata is different from structured metadata.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: We are going to use DCAT vocabulary. But in structured metadata, we don't have a best practice right now for it. I think discovery of metadata is different from structured metadata. ←

13:11:50 <hadleybeeman> ...I'm not sure, we could have a best practice that structured metadata should be available.

...I'm not sure, we could have a best practice that structured metadata should be available. ←

13:11:51 <phila> q+ to talk about CSVW and VoID

Phil Archer: q+ to talk about CSVW and VoID ←

13:11:57 <laufer> q+

Carlos Laufer: q+ ←

13:12:00 <Zakim> + +31.20.420.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.420.aaaa ←

13:12:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

13:12:17 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

13:12:18 <Zakim> - +31.20.420.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +31.20.420.aaaa ←

13:12:30 <hadleybeeman> ...In some case, I'm not sure if it's helpful to provide structured metadata.

...In some case, I'm not sure if it's helpful to provide structured metadata. ←

13:13:53 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

13:13:53 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about CSVW and VoID

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to talk about CSVW and VoID ←

13:13:58 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: reminds eveyrone to use the queue on zakim

Deirdre Lee: reminds eveyrone to use the queue on zakim ←

13:13:59 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

13:14:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←

13:14:18 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Main_Page CSVW home page

Phil Archer: -> https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Main_Page CSVW home page ←

13:14:18 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

13:14:19 <hadleybeeman> phila: Re structured metadata: We have two examples to point to.

Phil Archer: Re structured metadata: We have two examples to point to. ←

13:14:29 <antoine> zakim, IPcaller.a is me

Antoine Isaac: zakim, IPcaller.a is me ←

13:14:29 <Zakim> +antoine; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +antoine; got it ←

13:14:34 <hadleybeeman> ...The CSV working group is publishing a stable version of this document this week.

...The CSV working group is publishing a stable version of this document this week. ←

13:14:46 <hadleybeeman> ...They're pretty much done.

...They're pretty much done. ←

13:14:56 <phila> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/void/ VoID

Phil Archer: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/void/ VoID ←

13:15:04 <hadleybeeman> ...Other one is VoID, which has been around a while

...Other one is VoID, which has been around a while ←

13:15:14 <hadleybeeman> ...An established way of describing an RDF dataset.

...An established way of describing an RDF dataset. ←

13:15:22 <hadleybeeman> ...For XML, you'd publish the schema.

...For XML, you'd publish the schema. ←

13:15:42 <hadleybeeman> ...Any list we give would always be incomplete. I suspect annette_g and ericstephan would give us examples from NetCDF, etc.

...Any list we give would always be incomplete. I suspect annette_g and ericstephan would give us examples from NetCDF, etc. ←

13:15:56 <hadleybeeman> ...I think we do need to talk about structured metadata, and we can give examples on how.

...I think we do need to talk about structured metadata, and we can give examples on how. ←

13:16:05 <SumitPurohit> keyboard noise

Sumit Purohit: keyboard noise ←

13:16:08 <laufer> we are hearing phil typing

Carlos Laufer: we are hearing hadley typing ←

13:16:25 <phila> s/phil/hadley/

13:16:30 <phila> ack laufer

Phil Archer: ack laufer ←

13:16:32 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: WE have a best practice on discovery, structured metadata.  so you're saying yes.

Deirdre Lee: WE have a best practice on discovery, structured metadata. so you're saying yes. ←

13:17:24 <Zakim> +ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan ←

13:17:24 <BernadetteLoscio> :(

Bernadette Farias Loscio: :( ←

13:17:39 <Zakim> -ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan ←

13:17:52 <hadleybeeman> laufer: I think we have discovery as one thing. For discovery, people may want to choose a lot of metadata.

Carlos Laufer: I think we have discovery as one thing. For discovery, people may want to choose a lot of metadata. ←

13:18:07 <hadleybeeman> ... Descriptions, version, structure. We don't know what they'll choose.

... Descriptions, version, structure. We don't know what they'll choose. ←

13:18:38 <hadleybeeman> ...Structured metadata is one kind of metadata. We have to talk about it giving it. I don't think VoID is structured metadata; it's equivalent to DCAT.

...Structured metadata is one kind of metadata. We have to talk about it giving it. I don't think VoID is structured metadata; it's equivalent to DCAT. ←

13:18:43 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to laufer comment about VoID.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to laufer comment about VoID. ←

13:18:48 <hadleybeeman> ...But a data dictionary would be structure.

...But a data dictionary would be structure. ←

13:19:19 <hadleybeeman> ...We should talk about someone giving XML schema, or a data dictionary from a relational database. But I think we need a specific best practice saying that someone

...We should talk about someone giving XML schema, or a data dictionary from a relational database. But I think we need a specific best practice saying that someone ←

13:19:41 <hadleybeeman> ...If you don't understand the structure, you don't understand the dataset.

...If you don't understand the structure, you don't understand the dataset. ←

13:19:42 <hadleybeeman> q?

q? ←

13:19:54 <deirdrelee> ack laufer

Deirdre Lee: ack laufer ←

13:20:11 <hadleybeeman> annette_g: Bernadette mentioned that files like audio files may not have a structure and it could be difficult to require that for people.

Annette Greiner: Bernadette mentioned that files like audio files may not have a structure and it could be difficult to require that for people. ←

13:20:39 <hadleybeeman> ...My thought is that it has a linear structure in it. You just also need to document that structure

...My thought is that it has a linear structure in it. You just also need to document that structure ←

13:20:54 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

13:21:09 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: we're talking about the structure of the metadata, not the data itself.

Deirdre Lee: we're talking about the structure of the metadata, not the data itself. ←

13:21:17 <hadleybeeman> ... also, as discussed on Friday, file formats are out of scope.

... also, as discussed on Friday, file formats are out of scope. ←

13:21:28 <hadleybeeman> ...Okay to give as examples, but not in the scope of the group.

...Okay to give as examples, but not in the scope of the group. ←

13:21:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

13:21:36 <hadleybeeman> ...annette_g, is that okay here?

...annette_g, is that okay here? ←

13:21:46 <BernadetteLoscio> i think we are talking about structural metadata not about structured metadata

Bernadette Farias Loscio: i think we are talking about structural metadata not about structured metadata ←

13:22:01 <hadleybeeman> annette_g: The idea is that there is metadata for the structure of the data.

Annette Greiner: The idea is that there is metadata for the structure of the data. ←

13:22:16 <laufer> metadata about the structure of the dataset

Carlos Laufer: metadata about the structure of the dataset ←

13:22:21 <BernadetteLoscio> yes!

Bernadette Farias Loscio: yes! ←

13:22:21 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

13:22:28 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g

Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←

13:22:29 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: I think we all agree that there should be an agreement that says the structure of the actual data should be one of the metadata values.

Deirdre Lee: I think we all agree that there should be an agreement that says the structure of the actual data should be one of the metadata values. ←

13:23:10 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: I think we agree we should provide info re the structure of the data. It will depend on the data format. We should have a best practice that says structural metadata should be provided whenever possible.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think we agree we should provide info re the structure of the data. It will depend on the data format. We should have a best practice that says structural metadata should be provided whenever possible. ←

13:23:23 <hadleybeeman> ...metadata to describe the structure of the data.

...metadata to describe the structure of the data. ←

13:23:45 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: Close the issue then and create an action for the BP editors to add a BP for structural metadata

Deirdre Lee: Close the issue then and create an action for the BP editors to add a BP for structural metadata ←

13:23:56 <hadleybeeman> close action-79

close ACTION-79 ←

13:23:56 <trackbot> Closed action-79.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-79. ←

13:24:01 <hadleybeeman> close issue-79

close ISSUE-79 ←

13:24:01 <trackbot> Closed issue-79.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-79. ←

13:24:01 <deirdrelee> close issue 79

Deirdre Lee: close ISSUE-79 ←

13:24:14 <hadleybeeman> action: bernadette to  to add a BP for structural metadata

ACTION: bernadette to to add a BP for structural metadata ←

13:24:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-147 -  to add a bp for structural metadata [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-147 - to add a bp for structural metadata [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2015-04-20]. ←

13:24:17 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

13:24:21 <hadleybeeman> zakim, pointer?

zakim, pointer? ←

13:24:21 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, hadleybeeman.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, hadleybeeman. ←

13:24:27 <hadleybeeman> rrsagent pointer?

rrsagent pointer? ←

13:24:32 <hadleybeeman> rrsagent, pointer?

rrsagent, pointer? ←

13:24:32 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-24-32

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-24-32 ←

13:24:55 <hadleybeeman> Ig_Bittencourt: For every BP we are proposing, should we define a use case?

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: For every BP we are proposing, should we define a use case? ←

13:25:20 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: I think we should start with the use case/requirement that we have. If we don't find one, then we need a new one.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think we should start with the use case/requirement that we have. If we don't find one, then we need a new one. ←

13:25:50 <hadleybeeman> issue-84?

ISSUE-84? ←

13:25:50 <trackbot> issue-84 -- Should DCAT include a pointer to a mirror/back up? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-84 -- Should DCAT include a pointer to a mirror/back up? -- open ←

13:25:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/84

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/84 ←

13:26:12 <phila> RESOLVED: Close issue 79. ACtion on BP editors to add BO for structural metadata

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-79. ACtion on BP editors to add BO for structural metadata ←

13:26:41 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: Steve raised this.  Anyone else know about it?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Steve raised this. Anyone else know about it? ←

13:27:08 <hadleybeeman> phila: I don't know why steve raised it, but I do have an answer.  I would tell Steve that a mirror is another distribution, which is already accommodated in DCAT

Phil Archer: I don't know why steve raised it, but I do have an answer. I would tell Steve that a mirror is another distribution, which is already accommodated in DCAT ←

13:27:21 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: Is this about preservation and archiving? Backups?

Deirdre Lee: Is this about preservation and archiving? Backups? ←

13:27:26 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

13:27:30 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio r

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio r ←

13:27:35 <deirdrelee> ack Ig_Bittencourt

Deirdre Lee: ack Ig_Bittencourt ←

13:27:45 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

13:27:49 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

13:27:50 <ericstephan> zakim, who is making noise

Eric Stephan: zakim, who is making noise ←

13:27:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is making noise', ericstephan ←

13:28:12 <hadleybeeman> zakim, who is noisy?

zakim, who is noisy? ←

13:28:12 <ericstephan> zakim, who is speaking?

Eric Stephan: zakim, who is speaking? ←

13:28:22 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (41%), antoine (4%), HadleyBeeman (4%), austincomputer (54%), [IPcaller] (9%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (41%), antoine (4%), HadleyBeeman (4%), austincomputer (54%), [IPcaller] (9%) ←

13:28:31 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: So let's close this issue.

Deirdre Lee: So let's close this issue. ←

13:28:32 <Zakim> ericstephan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (53%), antoine (50%), HadleyBeeman (9%), austincomputer (35%), [IPcaller] (9%)

Zakim IRC Bot: ericstephan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (53%), antoine (50%), HadleyBeeman (9%), austincomputer (35%), [IPcaller] (9%) ←

13:28:34 <hadleybeeman> close issue-84

close ISSUE-84 ←

13:28:34 <trackbot> Closed issue-84.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-84. ←

13:28:37 <phila> RESOLVED: CLOSE ISSUE-84

RESOLVED: CLOSE ISSUE-84 ←

13:28:37 <hadleybeeman> issue-136?

ISSUE-136? ←

13:28:37 <trackbot> issue-136 -- Proposal for Metadata BP -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-136 -- Proposal for Metadata BP -- open ←

13:28:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/136

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/136 ←

13:29:00 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: I think we should discuss the proposal we have now.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think we should discuss the proposal we have now. ←

13:29:29 <hadleybeeman> ...We were saying that metadata should be available, machine-readable and to document what metadata we are using, self-documented metadata, and reuse of terms.

...We were saying that metadata should be available, machine-readable and to document what metadata we are using, self-documented metadata, and reuse of terms. ←

13:29:35 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

13:30:02 <hadleybeeman> ...We now have 2 best practices for metadata. 1) general, providing metadata, which includes the three best practices at the top, and a 2) which is about the others.

...We now have 2 best practices for metadata. 1) general, providing metadata, which includes the three best practices at the top, and a 2) which is about the others. ←

13:30:04 <BernadetteLoscio> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html

Bernadette Farias Loscio: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html ←

13:30:14 <hadleybeeman> ...This is our new proposal on metadata best practices.

...This is our new proposal on metadata best practices. ←

13:30:51 <hadleybeeman> ...I'd also like to discuss another ideal.  Now we have two BPs on metadata.

...I'd also like to discuss another ideal. Now we have two BPs on metadata. ←

13:31:10 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

13:31:18 <newton> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata

Unknown newton: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata ←

13:31:55 <hadleybeeman> zakim, who is talking?

zakim, who is talking? ←

13:32:01 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

13:32:05 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (13%), antoine (11%), austincomputer (89%)

Zakim IRC Bot: hadleybeeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ipswich (13%), antoine (11%), austincomputer (89%) ←

13:32:22 <hadleybeeman> ...The idea of the first best practice was that metadata should be provided in human-readable and machine readable forms.

...The idea of the first best practice was that metadata should be provided in human-readable and machine readable forms. ←

13:32:22 <antoine> this sounds complex: isn't all this about merging old BP1 and BP2 into a new BP2, and keeping old BP3 as such (except its number)?

Antoine Isaac: this sounds complex: isn't all this about merging old BP1 and BP2 into a new BP2, and keeping old BP3 as such (except its number)? ←

13:32:44 <hadleybeeman> ...But I was thinking about the DCAT vocab, and how we agreed to use the def of dataset provided by DCAT

...But I was thinking about the DCAT vocab, and how we agreed to use the def of dataset provided by DCAT ←

13:33:01 <hadleybeeman> ...Then, the metadata should be a description of the dataset based on the DCAT definition.

...Then, the metadata should be a description of the dataset based on the DCAT definition. ←

13:33:14 <hadleybeeman> ...We have properties for discovery, versioning, etc., which are different.

...We have properties for discovery, versioning, etc., which are different. ←

13:33:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

13:33:38 <hadleybeeman> ...In my opinion, "provide metadata" should be "provide a description of the dataset according to the DCAT vocabulary", if we agree we will use the defintions in DCAT

...In my opinion, "provide metadata" should be "provide a description of the dataset according to the DCAT vocabulary", if we agree we will use the defintions in DCAT ←

13:33:40 <phila> +1 to saying 'provide a description of the dataset using the terms from DCAT'

Phil Archer: +1 to saying 'provide a description of the dataset using the terms from DCAT' ←

13:34:05 <hadleybeeman> ...For the human-readable property, I propose to extend DCAT with a new property.

...For the human-readable property, I propose to extend DCAT with a new property. ←

13:34:21 <laufer> q+

Carlos Laufer: q+ ←

13:34:29 <hadleybeeman> ...There we have dataset descriptions with all the topics we want to cover in our different types of metadata.

...There we have dataset descriptions with all the topics we want to cover in our different types of metadata. ←

13:34:51 <phila> q+ to suggest that dcat:landingPage *might* do what Berna is talking about

Phil Archer: q+ to suggest that dcat:landingPage *might* do what Berna is talking about ←

13:34:54 <Ig_Bittencourt> Perhaps, to this human-readable, we could use owl:seeAlso

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Perhaps, to this human-readable, we could use owl:seeAlso ←

13:34:54 <hadleybeeman> ...In each one of the specific best practices that we have, we want to explain some properties of the definition to give info about discovery.

...In each one of the specific best practices that we have, we want to explain some properties of the definition to give info about discovery. ←

13:35:00 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

13:35:04 <hadleybeeman> ...In the implementation, we can give examples,

...In the implementation, we can give examples, ←

13:35:52 <hadleybeeman> q?

q? ←

13:35:53 <newton> +1 to BernadetteLoscio

Unknown newton: +1 to BernadetteLoscio ←

13:36:04 <deirdrelee> ack ericstephan

Deirdre Lee: ack ericstephan ←

13:36:26 <BernadetteLoscio> +q

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +q ←

13:36:42 <hadleybeeman> ericstephan: I'm finding, in the Data Usage vocab work, that it's easy to look at standards terms (like W3C) to use. But when we're looking at terms used by other communities — it's hard to determine what is standard.

Eric Stephan: I'm finding, in the Data Usage vocab work, that it's easy to look at standards terms (like W3C) to use. But when we're looking at terms used by other communities — it's hard to determine what is standard. ←

13:37:01 <hadleybeeman> ...It's almost like we need metrics for one person in the world, a speciality.

...It's almost like we need metrics for one person in the world, a speciality. ←

13:37:41 <hadleybeeman> ...It's a problem in how people define standards. There are other vocaburalies out there too.  Can we use the best practices to help people work out if their own vocabularies are standard or just made up by one person?

...It's a problem in how people define standards. There are other vocaburalies out there too. Can we use the best practices to help people work out if their own vocabularies are standard or just made up by one person? ←

13:37:44 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

13:37:52 <deirdrelee> ack laufer

Deirdre Lee: ack laufer ←

13:38:22 <hadleybeeman> laufer: I think we have to talk about DCAT, but as ericstephan said, we don't know.  We know we have a minimum of types of metadata.

Carlos Laufer: I think we have to talk about DCAT, but as ericstephan said, we don't know. We know we have a minimum of types of metadata. ←

13:38:45 <hadleybeeman> ...But each community will have its own, which is important to them. We have the example of CLS community, which Phila gave.

...But each community will have its own, which is important to them. We have the example of HCLS community, which Phila gave. ←

13:39:02 <hadleybeeman> ...We'll have lots of examples of how to describe datasets, in different communities.

...We'll have lots of examples of how to describe datasets, in different communities. ←

13:39:18 <hadleybeeman> ...We can say that we have a minimum, and that we are supporting DCAT as the minimum.

...We can say that we have a minimum, and that we are supporting DCAT as the minimum. ←

13:39:20 <annette_g> q+ to suggest that publishers do due diligence to determine what is standard

Annette Greiner: q+ to suggest that publishers do due diligence to determine what is standard ←

13:40:07 <hadleybeeman> deirdrelee: Is this similar to what we did with scope, that we don't pick a particular format to discuss. But, phila — do we have to refer to W3C standards?

Deirdre Lee: Is this similar to what we did with scope, that we don't pick a particular format to discuss. But, phila — do we have to refer to W3C standards? ←

13:40:12 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

13:40:12 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to suggest that dcat:landingPage *might* do what Berna is talking about

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to suggest that dcat:landingPage *might* do what Berna is talking about ←

13:40:21 <laufer> s/CLS/HCLS/

13:41:10 <hadleybeeman> phila: We're now talking about 'what is a standard'.  What a community decides they're going to do. A group of people hacking together once a week, a government choosing something with international recognition.  RSS is not a standard, robots.txt is not a standard.

Phil Archer: We're now talking about 'what is a standard'. What a community decides they're going to do. A group of people hacking together once a week, a government choosing something with international recognition. RSS is not a standard, robots.txt is not a standard. ←

13:41:22 <hadleybeeman> GeoJSON isn't a standard, but often used.

GeoJSON isn't a standard, but often used. ←

13:41:49 <phila> http://www.w3.org/TR/ld-bp/#vocabulary-creation

Phil Archer: http://www.w3.org/TR/ld-bp/#vocabulary-creation ←

13:41:56 <hadleybeeman> phila: The danger is that you are so general that yu don't give actionable advice. Where we have a clear spec we can point to, we can give advice on what you need to look for

Phil Archer: The danger is that you are so general that yu don't give actionable advice. Where we have a clear spec we can point to, we can give advice on what you need to look for ←

13:42:25 <hadleybeeman> ... And you can say: "for this BP, use DCAT unless you have a reason not to." "Comply or explain" is more useful and actionable and testable.

... And you can say: "for this BP, use DCAT unless you have a reason not to." "Comply or explain" is more useful and actionable and testable. ←

13:42:37 <annette_g> q-

Annette Greiner: q- ←

13:42:40 <ericstephan> +1 Phil

Eric Stephan: +1 Phil ←

13:42:44 <annette_g> +1 Phil

Annette Greiner: +1 Phil ←

13:42:48 <hadleybeeman> ...It's okay to give people an out, a way to decide not to follow the advice. But it helps to tell people what we think they should do.

...It's okay to give people an out, a way to decide not to follow the advice. But it helps to tell people what we think they should do. ←

13:42:49 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

13:42:55 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

13:43:01 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: I agree with PhilA. We need something more concrete to work with.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I agree with PhilA. We need something more concrete to work with. ←

13:43:09 <gguizzardi> Folks, just to be clear, we should differentiate between "de facto" standards and formal standards. Just for the sake of clarity. Formally speaking, standards are the things that are produced by standardization bodies

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Folks, just to be clear, we should differentiate between "de facto" standards and formal standards. Just for the sake of clarity. Formally speaking, standards are the things that are produced by standardization bodies ←

13:43:12 <deirdrelee> q+ to talk about scope

Deirdre Lee: q+ to talk about scope ←

13:43:19 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

13:43:20 <hadleybeeman> ...Maybe when we say "provide metadata", it should be "provide a description for the dataset"

...Maybe when we say "provide metadata", it should be "provide a description for the dataset" ←

13:43:26 <phila> q+ to suggest that dcat:landingPage *might* be the human readable description

Phil Archer: q+ to suggest that dcat:landingPage *might* be the human readable description ←

13:43:30 <gguizzardi> formally speaking, "de facto" standards are not standards

Giancarlo Guizzardi: formally speaking, "de facto" standards are not standards ←

13:43:52 <annette_g> okay

Annette Greiner: okay ←

13:43:59 <hadleybeeman> ...We could say, "You are free to use other vocabularies for dataset description. But we propose W3C's DCAT.

...We could say, "You are free to use other vocabularies for dataset description. But we propose W3C's DCAT. ←

13:44:02 <gguizzardi> and, of course, there are things that are not even "de facto" standards, they are just "frequently used"

Giancarlo Guizzardi: and, of course, there are things that are not even "de facto" standards, they are just "frequently used" ←

13:44:03 <hadleybeeman> scribe: annette_g

(Scribe set to Annette Greiner)

13:44:18 <annette_g> np

np ←

13:44:57 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: what is data? datasets? we need to see which BP applies to data itself or content of dataset. Maybe "data" is too general

Bernadette Farias Loscio: what is data? datasets? we need to see which BP applies to data itself or content of dataset. Maybe "data" is too general ←

13:45:02 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: -HadleyBeeman ←

13:45:07 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

13:45:14 <ericstephan> q-

Eric Stephan: q- ←

13:45:22 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: we need a concrete definition

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we need a concrete definition ←

13:45:30 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

13:45:52 <phila> zakim, close queue

Phil Archer: zakim, close queue ←

13:45:52 <Zakim> ok, phila, the speaker queue is closed

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila, the speaker queue is closed ←

13:45:58 <phila> zakim, next

Phil Archer: zakim, next ←

13:45:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', phila

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'next', phila ←

13:46:04 <phila> ack next

Phil Archer: ack next ←

13:46:04 <Ig_Bittencourt> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ShareOpenVocabularies

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ShareOpenVocabularies ←

13:46:07 <annette_g> Ig_Bittencourt: re standards and vocabs, we already have BP 15

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: re standards and vocabs, we already have BP 15 ←

13:46:33 <annette_g> assessment is hard

assessment is hard ←

13:46:55 <annette_g> maybe after we find vocabularies, we can do the assessment

maybe after we find vocabularies, we can do the assessment ←

13:47:05 <annette_g> we could extend DCAT

we could extend DCAT ←

13:47:29 <laufer> q+

Carlos Laufer: q+ ←

13:47:32 <phila> ack SumitPurohit

Phil Archer: ack SumitPurohit ←

13:47:36 <ericstephan> Nice link Ig_Bittencourt, okfn has a vocabulary for assessing vocab stability I'll try to find it

Eric Stephan: Nice link Ig_Bittencourt, okfn has a vocabulary for assessing vocab stability I'll try to find it ←

13:47:40 <laufer> oh

Carlos Laufer: oh ←

13:48:25 <Ig_Bittencourt> Nice ericstephan, perhaps it could be put also in the indication of BP15.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Nice ericstephan, perhaps it could be put also in the indication of BP15. ←

13:48:31 <annette_g> SumitPurohit: agrees with Phil and BernadetteLoscio in saying ppl should use DCAT, but be can also show alternative to use something else. A concrete example would be good.

Sumit Purohit: agrees with Phil and BernadetteLoscio in saying ppl should use DCAT, but be can also show alternative to use something else. A concrete example would be good. ←

13:48:51 <laufer> +1 to sumit

Carlos Laufer: +1 to sumit ←

13:48:51 <phila> +1 to giving examples

Phil Archer: +1 to giving examples ←

13:48:51 <annette_g> We should give that example in our BP

We should give that example in our BP ←

13:49:04 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: agrees with Sumit

Bernadette Farias Loscio: agrees with Sumit ←

13:49:04 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to SumitPurohit and BernadetteLoscio

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to SumitPurohit and BernadetteLoscio ←

13:49:13 <phila> ack deirdrelee

Phil Archer: ack deirdrelee ←

13:49:13 <Zakim> deirdrelee, you wanted to talk about scope

Zakim IRC Bot: deirdrelee, you wanted to talk about scope ←

13:49:42 <annette_g> deirdrelee: summarizes that we want to include DCAT by name and also other options

Deirdre Lee: summarizes that we want to include DCAT by name and also other options ←

13:49:54 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to name dcat and  be open

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 to name dcat and be open ←

13:50:00 <phila> PROPOSAL: That we include concrete standards from W3C but that we leave it open for other standards to be used as well

PROPOSED: That we include concrete standards from W3C but that we leave it open for other standards to be used as well ←

13:50:10 <annette_g> s/PROPOSAL/PROPOSED/

13:50:32 <phila> q-

Phil Archer: q- ←

13:50:43 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: this doesn't close the issue

Bernadette Farias Loscio: this doesn't close the issue ←

13:50:51 <annette_g> we still need to talk about structured metadata

we still need to talk about structured metadata ←

13:52:08 <phila> I'm happy to support the editors' choices. When I read it, if I don't like it, I'll say

Phil Archer: I'm happy to support the editors' choices. When I read it, if I don't like it, I'll say ←

13:52:17 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: should we keep the metadata BPs as they are now, or have one type of metadata link to the other?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: should we keep the metadata BPs as they are now, or have one type of metadata link to the other? ←

13:52:28 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

13:52:29 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

13:52:33 <phila> q- BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: q- BernadetteLoscio ←

13:52:39 <gguizzardi> Folks, sorry for insisting on this rather picky issue, but something like this "Is it really an error if a standard vocabulary was not used? How people will know which vocabularies should be used?" is not really meaningful unless we have a precise definition of what we mean by standard

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Folks, sorry for insisting on this rather picky issue, but something like this "Is it really an error if a standard vocabulary was not used? How people will know which vocabularies should be used?" is not really meaningful unless we have a precise definition of what we mean by standard ←

13:52:40 <phila> +1

Phil Archer: +1 ←

13:52:45 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

13:52:51 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

13:52:53 <annette_g> +1

+1 ←

13:52:59 <antoine> +1

Antoine Isaac: +1 ←

13:53:01 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

13:53:08 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

13:53:08 <annette_g> not meeting a best practice is not an error

not meeting a best practice is not an error ←

13:53:13 <annette_g> muffled audio

muffled audio ←

13:53:14 <phila> zakim, open the queue

Phil Archer: zakim, open the queue ←

13:53:14 <Zakim> ok, phila, the speaker queue is open

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila, the speaker queue is open ←

13:54:02 <phila> q+ to make a proposal about defn of standards

Phil Archer: q+ to make a proposal about defn of standards ←

13:54:04 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

13:54:15 <annette_g> who is speaking now?

who is speaking now? ←

13:54:20 <antoine> why don't we just agree that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_standard is ok? And yes it's vague but the world is such.

Antoine Isaac: why don't we just agree that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_standard is ok? And yes it's vague but the world is such. ←

13:54:27 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

13:54:56 <annette_g> gguizzardi: need a definition of what it means to be standard

Giancarlo Guizzardi: need a definition of what it means to be standard ←

13:55:15 <phila> RESOLVED: That we include concrete standards from W3C but that we leave it open for other standards to be used as well

RESOLVED: That we include concrete standards from W3C but that we leave it open for other standards to be used as well ←

13:55:22 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

13:55:48 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to the proposal

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to the proposal ←

13:56:21 <Gisele> +1 to the proposal

Gisele Pappa: +1 to the proposal ←

13:56:25 <Ig_Bittencourt> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ShareOpenVocabularies

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ShareOpenVocabularies ←

13:56:32 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

13:56:32 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to make a proposal about defn of standards

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to make a proposal about defn of standards ←

13:56:38 <Ig_Bittencourt> not this

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: not this ←

13:56:47 <annette_g> off topic

off topic ←

13:56:53 <Ig_Bittencourt> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata ←

13:56:57 <BernadetteLoscio> we have 02 general best practices BP1 and BP2

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we have 02 general best practices BP1 and BP2 ←

13:57:02 <ericstephan> +1 to having  a definition in the glossary

Eric Stephan: +1 to having a definition in the glossary ←

13:57:08 <BernadetteLoscio> and specific BP for each type of metadata

Bernadette Farias Loscio: and specific BP for each type of metadata ←

13:57:27 <phila> action: Yaso to include a definition of 'a standard' in the glossary

ACTION: Yaso to include a definition of 'a standard' in the glossary ←

13:57:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Include a definition of 'a standard' in the glossary [on Yaso Córdova - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-148 - Include a definition of 'a standard' in the glossary [on Yaso Córdova - due 2015-04-20]. ←

13:57:42 <annette_g> deirdrelee: asks yaso if it's okay to add to the glossary our definition of standard

Deirdre Lee: asks yaso if it's okay to add to the glossary our definition of standard ←

13:57:46 <annette_g> yaso: yes

Yaso Córdova: yes ←

13:57:46 <yaso> The glossary is here, just commited

Yaso Córdova: The glossary is here, just commited ←

13:57:47 <yaso> https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/blob/gh-pages/glossary.html

Yaso Córdova: https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/blob/gh-pages/glossary.html ←

13:58:18 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: we should update the glossary in an incremental way, so we don't have to do it all last minute

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we should update the glossary in an incremental way, so we don't have to do it all last minute ←

13:58:56 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/glossary.html The glossary as HTML page

Phil Archer: -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/glossary.html The glossary as HTML page ←

13:59:06 <annette_g> laufer: communities decide to use a standard as a de facto thing. They choose what they think is best at that moment. It's a kind of "light standard"

Carlos Laufer: communities decide to use a standard as a de facto thing. They choose what they think is best at that moment. It's a kind of "light standard" ←

13:59:25 <antoine> for info the wikipedia def mentioned de facto standards

Antoine Isaac: for info the wikipedia def mentioned de facto standards ←

13:59:50 <BernadetteLoscio> my proposal is to keep the current organization of BP metadata section: two general best practices (provide metadata and use standard terms) and specific BP for specific types of metadata

Bernadette Farias Loscio: my proposal is to keep the current organization of BP metadata section: two general best practices (provide metadata and use standard terms) and specific BP for specific types of metadata ←

14:00:19 <gguizzardi> Yes, Antoine, but we are putting together Formal Standards, "light standards", community conventions, de facto standards and putting it all together under the same term. The point is that we are recommending BPs to other people that cannot be sure if something is "light" standard enough to be consider a case of following the BP in question

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Yes, Antoine, but we are putting together Formal Standards, "light standards", community conventions, de facto standards and putting it all together under the same term. The point is that we are recommending BPs to other people that cannot be sure if something is "light" standard enough to be consider a case of following the BP in question ←

14:00:28 <BernadetteLoscio> Provide metadata

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Provide metadata ←

14:00:38 <BernadetteLoscio> Use standard terms to define metadata

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Use standard terms to define metadata ←

14:00:48 <newton>  http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata and http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideMetadataMachine

Unknown newton: http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata and http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideMetadataMachine ←

14:00:57 <deirdrelee> Proposed: to keep the current organization of BP metadata section: two general best practices (provide metadata and use standard terms) and specific BP for specific types of metadata

PROPOSED: to keep the current organization of BP metadata section: two general best practices (provide metadata and use standard terms) and specific BP for specific types of metadata ←

14:00:58 <yaso> I made comments at the commit. https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/commit/7bc41017a8a39cc766c920ba791ec43d0def8594 - but we can make it as issues, or new commits with suggestions.

Yaso Córdova: I made comments at the commit. https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/commit/7bc41017a8a39cc766c920ba791ec43d0def8594 - but we can make it as issues, or new commits with suggestions. ←

14:01:02 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+ ←

14:01:22 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

14:01:25 <phila> ack ant

Phil Archer: ack ant ←

14:01:46 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

14:01:55 <annette_g> PROPOSED: that we use two general metadata best practices, one to say that people should provide metadata and one to say to use standard terms, and then to provide other BPs for specific metadata.

PROPOSED: that we use two general metadata best practices, one to say that people should provide metadata and one to say to use standard terms, and then to provide other BPs for specific metadata. ←

14:02:25 <antoine> I'm looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#metadata

Antoine Isaac: I'm looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#metadata ←

14:02:53 <annette_g> antoine: what about the third one?

Antoine Isaac: what about the third one? ←

14:03:12 <Ig_Bittencourt> hi gguizzardi, but if we basically provide in the glossary what we are meant by standard, them it could be enough.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: hi gguizzardi, but if we basically provide in the glossary what we are meant by standard, them it could be enough. ←

14:03:39 <gguizzardi> Sure. I am fine with that

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Sure. I am fine with that ←

14:03:41 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

14:03:51 <antoine> q

Antoine Isaac: q ←

14:03:56 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

14:03:58 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+ ←

14:04:06 <deirdrelee> ack antoine

Deirdre Lee: ack antoine ←

14:04:12 <Ig_Bittencourt> great gguizzardi

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: great gguizzardi ←

14:04:28 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

14:04:29 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

14:05:02 <deirdrelee> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata

Deirdre Lee: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata ←

14:05:02 <annette_g> antoine: was referring to the older version of the BPs

Antoine Isaac: was referring to the older version of the BPs ←

14:06:32 <phila> action: Lee to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki

ACTION: Lee to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki ←

14:06:33 <trackbot> 'Lee' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dlee8, klee5).

Trackbot IRC Bot: 'Lee' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dlee8, klee5). ←

14:06:43 <phila> action: Deirdre to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki

ACTION: Deirdre to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki ←

14:06:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki [on Deirdre Lee - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-149 - Include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki [on Deirdre Lee - due 2015-04-20]. ←

14:06:48 <annette_g> antoine: so, the proposal is to just publish 1 and 2 under metadata

Antoine Isaac: so, the proposal is to just publish 1 and 2 under metadata ←

14:07:01 <ericstephan> should we try voting again?

Eric Stephan: should we try voting again? ←

14:07:26 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: some people didn't agree that the human and machine readable should be separate BPs

Bernadette Farias Loscio: some people didn't agree that the human and machine readable should be separate BPs ←

14:08:10 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: so, if we accept this proposal, we resolve the issue

Bernadette Farias Loscio: so, if we accept this proposal, we resolve the issue ←

14:08:41 <phila> PROPOSED: that we use two general metadata best practices, one to say that people should provide metadata and one to say to use standard terms, and then to provide other BPs for specific metadata.

14:08:48 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

14:08:52 <annette_g> +1

+1 ←

14:08:53 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

14:08:59 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

14:08:59 <antoine> +1

Antoine Isaac: +1 ←

14:09:00 <yaso> 1

Yaso Córdova: 1 ←

14:09:01 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

14:09:02 <gguizzardi> +1

Giancarlo Guizzardi: +1 ←

14:09:03 <yaso> +1

Yaso Córdova: +1 ←

14:09:07 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

14:09:10 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: ++1 ←

14:09:11 <annette_g> s/1/+1/

14:09:16 <phila> RESOLVED: that we use two general metadata best practices, one to say that people should provide metadata and one to say to use standard terms, and then to provide other BPs for specific metadata.

RESOLVED: that we use two general metadata best practices, one to say that people should provide metadata and one to say to use standard terms, and then to provide other BPs for specific metadata. ←

14:09:27 <ericstephan> woo hoo!

Eric Stephan: woo hoo! ←

14:09:29 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

14:09:32 <phila> PROPOSED: The the current structure is fine

PROPOSED: The the current structure is fine ←

14:09:34 <deirdrelee> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata

Deirdre Lee: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata ←

14:09:37 <laufer> +1 to woo hoo!

Carlos Laufer: +1 to woo hoo! ←

14:09:42 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

14:09:43 <Gisele> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

14:09:43 <annette_g> +1

+1 ←

14:09:58 <phila> PROPOSED: The the structure at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata on 2015-04-13 is fine

PROPOSED: The the structure at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata on 2015-04-13 is fine ←

14:09:59 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

14:09:59 <phila> +1

Phil Archer: +1 ←

14:10:08 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

14:10:09 <phila> RESOLVED: The the structure at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata on 2015-04-13 is fine

RESOLVED: The the structure at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#DocumentMetadata on 2015-04-13 is fine ←

14:10:10 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

14:10:11 <deirdrelee> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/136

Deirdre Lee: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/136 ←

14:10:43 <phila> issue-136?

Phil Archer: ISSUE-136? ←

14:10:43 <trackbot> issue-136 -- Proposal for Metadata BP -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-136 -- Proposal for Metadata BP -- open ←

14:10:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/136

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/136 ←

14:11:01 <laufer> close close close

Carlos Laufer: close close close ←

14:11:02 <phila> close issue-136

Phil Archer: close ISSUE-136 ←

14:11:05 <trackbot> Closed issue-136.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-136. ←

14:11:05 <ericstephan> :-)

Eric Stephan: :-) ←

14:11:30 <phila> issue-139?

Phil Archer: ISSUE-139? ←

14:11:30 <trackbot> issue-139 -- Suggests additional content for BP1 implementation -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-139 -- Suggests additional content for BP1 implementation -- open ←

14:11:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/139

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/139 ←

14:11:35 <antoine> +1 but after that someone will have to explain me what we've resolved. the structure of http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#metadata is the same as http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-dwbp-20150224/#metadata

Antoine Isaac: +1 but after that someone will have to explain me what we've resolved. the structure of http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#metadata is the same as http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-dwbp-20150224/#metadata ←

14:11:39 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: issue 139

Bernadette Farias Loscio: ISSUE-139 ←

14:12:11 <annette_g> is from a really old version of the doc. can we close?

is from a really old version of the doc. can we close? ←

14:12:32 <Ig_Bittencourt> Yes

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Yes ←

14:12:40 <phila> close issue-139

Phil Archer: close ISSUE-139 ←

14:12:41 <trackbot> Closed issue-139.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-139. ←

14:12:41 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

14:12:55 <deirdrelee> issue-147?

Deirdre Lee: ISSUE-147? ←

14:12:55 <trackbot> issue-147 -- We should differentiate a metadata document from documenting metadata (meta metadata) -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-147 -- We should differentiate a metadata document from documenting metadata (meta metadata) -- open ←

14:12:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/147

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/147 ←

14:12:56 <phila> RESOLVED: close 139 as new teplate overrides it.

RESOLVED: close 139 as new teplate overrides it. ←

14:13:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←

14:13:40 <ericstephan> Ig_Bittencourt: Vocab status that I mentioned earlier:  http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/vocabs/vs

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Vocab status that I mentioned earlier: http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/vocabs/vs [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ] ←

14:13:50 <laufer> clcloclose

Carlos Laufer: clcloclose ←

14:13:54 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: I think we solved this with the new version

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think we solved this with the new version ←

14:14:03 <annette_g> laufer: yes

Carlos Laufer: yes ←

14:14:04 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim, ipcaller.a is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, ipcaller.a is me ←

14:14:04 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers; got it ←

14:14:27 <phila> close issue-147

Phil Archer: close ISSUE-147 ←

14:14:27 <trackbot> Closed issue-147.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-147. ←

14:14:44 <phila> issue-145?

Phil Archer: ISSUE-145? ←

14:14:44 <trackbot> issue-145 -- Should we change the title of BP7? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-145 -- Should we change the title of BP7? -- open ←

14:14:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/145

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/145 ←

14:15:04 <antoine> "provide unique identifiers"

Antoine Isaac: "provide unique identifiers" ←

14:15:41 <phila> -> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideUniqueIdentifiers BP on Identifiers perhaps?

Phil Archer: -> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideUniqueIdentifiers BP on Identifiers perhaps? ←

14:15:57 <annette_g> Q=

Q= ←

14:16:00 <annette_g> q+

q+ ←

14:16:06 <phila> So issue-147 is about http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideUniqueIdentifiers

Phil Archer: So ISSUE-147 is about http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideUniqueIdentifiers ←

14:16:12 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

14:16:23 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

14:16:34 <annette_g> ack me

ack me ←

14:16:40 <phila> deirdrelee: So what do you propose to change it to annette_g ?

Deirdre Lee: So what do you propose to change it to annette_g ? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

14:16:41 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

14:17:34 <phila> annette_g: I'm not sure it means anythinbg to say you need to give something a unique ID whewn it's on the Web - since URIs are the only way to do it

Annette Greiner: I'm not sure it means anythinbg to say you need to give something a unique ID whewn it's on the Web - since URIs are the only way to do it [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

14:17:41 <phila> ... Not sure it's a useful BP

Phil Archer: ... Not sure it's a useful BP ←

14:17:47 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

14:18:41 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: agrees with Annette, points out that datasets need to be associated with a unique identifier. we need to talk more about what the identifiers are for. resources?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: agrees with Annette, points out that datasets need to be associated with a unique identifier. we need to talk more about what the identifiers are for. resources? ←

14:18:50 <Ig_Bittencourt> ericstephan: nice. I didn't know this Vocab status. Somehow it is related to the DUV.

Eric Stephan: nice. I didn't know this Vocab status. Somehow it is related to the DUV. [ Scribe Assist by Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto ] ←

14:19:30 <annette_g> deirdrelee: this is not really about metadata, okay to move it?

Deirdre Lee: this is not really about metadata, okay to move it? ←

14:19:34 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: yes

Bernadette Farias Loscio: yes ←

14:19:38 <Ig_Bittencourt> ericstephan: perhaps we could reuse it in DUV.

Eric Stephan: perhaps we could reuse it in DUV. [ Scribe Assist by Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto ] ←

14:19:40 <phila> deirdrelee: Issue postponed until discussion of identifiers

Deirdre Lee: Issue postponed until discussion of identifiers [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

14:19:47 <annette_g> SumitPurohit: yes, it

Sumit Purohit: yes, it ←

14:19:50 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

14:19:51 <annette_g> will be more relevant later

will be more relevant later ←

14:20:01 <phila> q- SumitPurohit

Phil Archer: q- SumitPurohit ←

14:20:12 <annette_g> breaking up

breaking up ←

14:20:29 <annette_g> BernadetteLoscio: we

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we ←

14:20:43 <annette_g> are going to change the issue title to show the name of the bP

are going to change the issue title to show the name of the bP ←

14:20:53 <ericstephan> Ig_Bittencourt: interesting about including it in DUV, we've been focusing on usage of  dataset, metadata would be good.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: interesting about including it in DUV, we've been focusing on usage of dataset, metadata would be good. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ] ←

14:20:56 <annette_g> deirdrelee: 10 minute break?

Deirdre Lee: 10 minute break? ←

14:21:02 <Makx_Dekkers> yes

Makx Dekkers: yes ←

14:21:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

14:21:16 <antoine> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP

Antoine Isaac: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP ←

14:21:57 <phila> Not getting a response from that wiki page :-(

Phil Archer: Not getting a response from that wiki page :-( ←

14:22:16 <annette_g> deirdrelee: come back at half past to talk about Q+G vocab

Deirdre Lee: come back at half past to talk about Q+G vocab ←

14:22:19 <antoine> deirdre I'm really not sure we can talk about quality if the wiki's not working :-(

Antoine Isaac: deirdre I'm really not sure we can talk about quality if the wiki's not working :-( ←

14:22:48 <phila> Seems the wiki is having a hissy fit

Phil Archer: Seems the wiki is having a hissy fit ←

14:23:57 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers ←

14:37:01 <Makx_Dekkers> trying to coenect to https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/ but site seems to be dead

(No events recorded for 13 minutes)

Makx Dekkers: trying to coenect to https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/ but site seems to be dead ←

14:37:15 <phila> We have wikis!

Phil Archer: We have wikis! ←

14:37:22 <phila> (Someone turned them off and on again)

Phil Archer: (Someone turned them off and on again) ←

14:37:36 <phila> Topic: Quality discussion

2. Quality discussion

14:37:48 <phila> scribe: phila

(Scribe set to Phil Archer)

14:38:23 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←

14:38:44 <annette_g> scribe is back

Annette Greiner: scribe is back ←

14:38:52 <annette_g> still a couple missing here

Annette Greiner: still a couple missing here ←

14:38:53 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim, ??P5 is me i guess

Makx Dekkers: zakim, ??P5 is me i guess ←

14:38:53 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P5 is me i guess', Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P5 is me i guess', Makx_Dekkers ←

14:38:57 <annette_g> thanks, Phil!

Annette Greiner: thanks, Phil! ←

14:39:03 <phila> zakim, ??P5 is Makx_Dekkers

zakim, ??P5 is Makx_Dekkers ←

14:39:03 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers; got it ←

14:39:14 <ericstephan> OK!

Eric Stephan: OK! ←

14:39:19 <phila> deirdrelee: We'll do this for 2 hours then break for lunch

Deirdre Lee: We'll do this for 2 hours then break for lunch ←

14:39:28 <phila> ... over to Antoine

... over to Antoine ←

14:39:28 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

14:39:44 <phila> We're looking at https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP

We're looking at https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP ←

14:39:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

14:40:44 <Makx_Dekkers> link to doc does not work

Makx Dekkers: link to doc does not work ←

14:40:54 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

14:40:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, austincomputer, antoine, Makx_Dekkers, [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, austincomputer, antoine, Makx_Dekkers, [IPcaller] ←

14:40:55 <phila> No, Makx_Dekkers Grr

No, Makx_Dekkers Grr ←

14:40:56 <Zakim> austincomputer has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele

Zakim IRC Bot: austincomputer has annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, newton, ericstephan, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, newton, Gisele ←

14:40:56 <Zakim> Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has riccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, phila ←

14:40:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see newton_, gguizzardi, yaso, annette_g, Makx_Dekkers, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see newton_, gguizzardi, yaso, annette_g, Makx_Dekkers, Gisele, BernadetteLoscio, Ig_Bittencourt, laufer, ericstephan, riccardoAlbertoni, austincomputer, phila, ←

14:40:56 <Zakim> ... deirdrelee, antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... deirdrelee, antoine, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

14:41:01 <gguizzardi> I am the ipcaller

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I am the ipcaller ←

14:41:11 <ericstephan> @phila, having trouble with the wiki again, I can scribe next

Eric Stephan: @phila, having trouble with the wiki again, I can scribe next ←

14:41:38 <annette_g> wiki is stalled?

Annette Greiner: wiki is stalled? ←

14:42:23 <deirdrelee> antoine: the first thing was looking at the bp group and tring to identify concrete things about the scope of quality vocab, what we call competency questions

Antoine Isaac: the first thing was looking at the bp group and tring to identify concrete things about the scope of quality vocab, what we call competency questions [ Scribe Assist by Deirdre Lee ] ←

14:42:36 <Makx_Dekkers> yes i see it now

Makx Dekkers: yes i see it now ←

14:43:03 <gguizzardi> I can't access it

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I can't access it ←

14:43:30 <Ig_Bittencourt> me neither.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: me neither. ←

14:43:32 <annette_g> Gisele got it, the rest of us are waiting

Annette Greiner: Gisele got it, the rest of us are waiting ←

14:44:04 <newton_> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP

Scribe problem: the name 'newton_' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adriano Veloso Adriano Pereira Amy Guy Ana Salgado Annette Greiner Antoine Isaac Bart van Leeuwen Bernadette Farias Loscio Carlos Iglesias Carlos Tejo Carlos Laufer Caroline Burle Christophe Gueret Daniel Schwabe Deirdre Lee Elie SLOÏM Eric Kauz Eric Stephan Erik Mannens Flavio Yanai Ghislain Atemezing Giancarlo Guizzardi Gisele Pappa Gustavo Suárez Volpe Hadley Beeman Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Ingo Simonis Jeremy Debattista Joao Almeida Kangchan Lee Kiev Santos da Gama Lewis Mcgibbney Makx Dekkers Manuel Carrasco Benitez Mark Harrison Martín Álvarez Michel Dumontier Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício Phil Archer Raphaël Troncy Riccardo Albertoni Seiji Isotani Silvia Da Rosa Steven Adler Sumit Purohit Vagner Diniz Vinh Nguyen Wagner Meira Jr. William Mischo William Smith Yaso Córdova victoria koster Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown newton_: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP ←

14:44:07 <BernadetteLoscio> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP

Bernadette Farias Loscio: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP ←

14:44:32 <ericstephan> Could anything be sent via email attachment?

Eric Stephan: Could anything be sent via email attachment? ←

14:45:13 <Ig_Bittencourt> Good idea ericstephan. Gisele or BernadetteLoscio, please send the file by email.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Good idea ericstephan. Gisele or BernadetteLoscio, please send the file by email. ←

14:45:20 <phila> Topic: Comments

3. Comments

14:45:26 <laufer> maybe you can generate a pdf and send by email

Carlos Laufer: maybe you can generate a pdf and send by email ←

14:45:29 <phila> See https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/

See https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/ ←

14:45:38 <laufer> as eric said

Carlos Laufer: as eric said ←

14:45:52 <ericstephan> okay just didn't know if local copies existed somewhere

Eric Stephan: okay just didn't know if local copies existed somewhere ←

14:46:08 <deirdrelee> ...https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/

Deirdre Lee: ...https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/ ←

14:46:28 <deirdrelee> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3003

Deirdre Lee: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3003 ←

14:47:56 <phila> deirdrelee: Points out that Andrea's comment is at odds with what we just agreed

Deirdre Lee: Points out that Andrea's comment is at odds with what we just agreed ←

14:48:28 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I'm not sure ... we have a new proposal now. WE have already discussed the proposal

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I'm not sure ... we have a new proposal now. WE have already discussed the proposal ←

14:48:36 <phila> ... so I suggest we close it with what we just agreed

... so I suggest we close it with what we just agreed ←

14:48:38 <annette_g> +1 to BernadetteLoscio

Annette Greiner: +1 to BernadetteLoscio ←

14:49:14 <phila> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3003?cid=3003

https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3003?cid=3003 ←

14:50:31 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

14:50:37 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

14:51:37 <phila> phila: Explains the comment system, how we can resolve in differnet names

Phil Archer: Explains the comment system, how we can resolve in differnet names ←

14:51:56 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g

Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←

14:52:04 <phila> annette_g: It feels like we have resolved no - we don't agree with Andrea

Annette Greiner: It feels like we have resolved no - we don't agree with Andrea ←

14:52:31 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I think it's more resolve partial because we have another proposal.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think it's more resolve partial because we have another proposal. ←

14:52:51 <ericstephan> I think resolving partial keeps the door open to get his feedback

Eric Stephan: I think resolving partial keeps the door open to get his feedback ←

14:53:14 <yaso> +1 to BernadetteLoscio

Yaso Córdova: +1 to BernadetteLoscio ←

14:53:23 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

14:53:25 <flavio> +1

Flavio Yanai: +1 ←

14:54:06 <phila> PROPOSED: Mark as Resolved Partial and action on BernadetteLoscio to contact Andrea and let him know about the new wording

PROPOSED: Mark as Resolved Partial and action on BernadetteLoscio to contact Andrea and let him know about the new wording ←

14:54:23 <phila> +1

+1 ←

14:54:29 <deirdrelee> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3004

Deirdre Lee: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3004 ←

14:54:29 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

14:54:34 <phila> RESOLVED: Mark as Resolved Partial and action on BernadetteLoscio to contact Andrea and let him know about the new wording

RESOLVED: Mark as Resolved Partial and action on BernadetteLoscio to contact Andrea and let him know about the new wording ←

14:55:06 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I've already written to him - OK, no action required

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I've already written to him - OK, no action required ←

14:55:45 <BernadetteLoscio> I'm gonna write a new message

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I'm gonna write a new message ←

14:56:01 <BernadetteLoscio> you can create an action if you want

Bernadette Farias Loscio: you can create an action if you want ←

14:56:27 <phila> action: BernadetteLoscio to write to Andrea Perego informing of the new text

ACTION: BernadetteLoscio to write to Andrea Perego informing of the new text ←

14:56:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Write to andrea perego informing of the new text [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-150 - Write to andrea perego informing of the new text [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2015-04-20]. ←

14:57:14 <phila> laufer: The three comments that Andrea made are all related

Carlos Laufer: The three comments that Andrea made are all related ←

14:57:27 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: So I can write to him once and say that his comments are taken into accoiunt in the new version

Bernadette Farias Loscio: So I can write to him once and say that his comments are taken into accoiunt in the new version ←

14:57:29 <phila> ... of the BP doc

... of the BP doc ←

14:58:25 <phila> Now looking at https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3005

Now looking at https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3005 ←

14:58:37 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

14:58:40 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I didn't cover this issue in the new version of the BP text arund data discovery

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I didn't cover this issue in the new version of the BP text arund data discovery ←

14:58:44 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

14:59:27 <phila> laufer: Our scope should be the dataset... should I say that it's not part of our goals to talk about data discovery?

Carlos Laufer: Our scope should be the dataset... should I say that it's not part of our goals to talk about data discovery? ←

14:59:33 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

15:00:02 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g

Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←

15:00:24 <SumitPurohit> q+

Sumit Purohit: q+ ←

15:00:41 <phila> ack ericstephan

ack ericstephan ←

15:01:13 <phila> ericstephan: I agree that we should stick at the dataset level

Eric Stephan: I agree that we should stick at the dataset level ←

15:01:15 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to ericstephan

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to ericstephan ←

15:01:18 <BernadetteLoscio> Bernadette

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Bernadette ←

15:01:22 <Ig_Bittencourt> and annette_g

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: and annette_g ←

15:01:23 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

15:01:26 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

15:01:27 <BernadetteLoscio> +q

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +q ←

15:01:29 <phila> ack SumitPurohit

ack SumitPurohit ←

15:02:08 <phila> SumitPurohit: I'm not happy with saying you have any gibberish in your data as long as the description is goof

Sumit Purohit: I'm not happy with saying you have any gibberish in your data as long as the description is good ←

15:02:12 <phila> s/goof/good/

15:02:32 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

15:02:35 <phila> ack deirdrelee

ack deirdrelee ←

15:03:07 <phila> deirdrelee: I agree. In terms of the content, we still recommend quality data, standards etc. All we're saying is that for the discoverability, that the metadata shoujld facilitate discoverability

Deirdre Lee: I agree. In terms of the content, we still recommend quality data, standards etc. All we're saying is that for the discoverability, that the metadata should facilitate discoverability ←

15:03:33 <riccardoAlbertoni> s/shoujld/should

15:03:38 <phila> ... it's implied that if you do that then there's potential for data being discoverable

... it's implied that if you do that then there's potential for data being discoverable ←

15:03:44 <phila> scribe is very confused

scribe is very confused ←

15:03:50 <ericstephan> q-

Eric Stephan: q- ←

15:04:03 <ericstephan> I filtered myself :-)

Eric Stephan: I filtered myself :-) ←

15:04:35 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: If we're going to provide structrual metata, this can hekp find more info about the data itself.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: If we're going to provide structrual metata, this can hekp find more info about the data itself. ←

15:04:42 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

15:04:50 <ericstephan> Metadata should be useful and appropriate

Eric Stephan: Metadata should be useful and appropriate ←

15:05:04 <phila> deirdrelee: Calls for a proposal

Deirdre Lee: Calls for a proposal ←

15:05:40 <phila> PROPOSED: We're not going to go into detail on the discovery of data content that is addressed by metadata, including quality of data etc. We're not going into discovery of the data itself

PROPOSED: We're not going to go into detail on the discovery of data content that is addressed by metadata, including quality of data etc. We're not going into discovery of the data itself ←

15:06:27 <ericstephan> I would ammend this with we arent going to define a BP for going into detail..

Eric Stephan: I would ammend this with we arent going to define a BP for going into detail.. ←

15:06:32 <Zakim> -austincomputer

Zakim IRC Bot: -austincomputer ←

15:06:40 <phila> phila: happy for someone to put in a better proposal

Phil Archer: happy for someone to put in a better proposal ←

15:06:44 <SumitPurohit> we lost skype.....

Sumit Purohit: we lost skype..... ←

15:06:48 <laufer> I think search engines are the responsibles for creating the metadata about content itself (just thinking...)

Carlos Laufer: I think search engines are the responsibles for creating the metadata about content itself (just thinking...) ←

15:06:55 <yaso> skype absents

Yaso Córdova: skype absents ←

15:06:59 <ericstephan> austin we have a problem

Eric Stephan: austin we have a problem ←

15:07:07 <deirdrelee> :)

Deirdre Lee: :) ←

15:07:12 <annette_g> working on it

Annette Greiner: working on it ←

15:07:17 <BernadetteLoscio> one moment

Bernadette Farias Loscio: one moment ←

15:07:23 <ericstephan> we are pooling money to get back on skype

Eric Stephan: we are pooling money to get back on skype ←

15:07:28 <laufer> very near houston...

Carlos Laufer: very near houston... ←

15:07:44 <deirdrelee> ok, let's leave these comments and get back to quality-

Deirdre Lee: ok, let's leave these comments and get back to quality- ←

15:07:53 <laufer> our 2F2F

Carlos Laufer: our 2F2F ←

15:07:54 <BernadetteLoscio> ok ;)

Bernadette Farias Loscio: ok ;) ←

15:08:42 <gguizzardi> Folks, I can no longer understand anything

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Folks, I can no longer understand anything ←

15:09:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←

15:09:26 <deirdrelee> bernadette - let's mark all as three as resolved-part, reply to Andrea

Deirdre Lee: bernadette - let's mark all as three as resolved-part, reply to Andrea ←

15:09:46 <ericstephan> Yaso saves the day

Eric Stephan: Yaso saves the day ←

15:10:14 <BernadetteLoscio> yes Deirdre! I agree

Bernadette Farias Loscio: yes Deirdre! I agree ←

15:10:56 <deirdrelee> austin, can you hear us?

Deirdre Lee: austin, can you hear us? ←

15:11:00 <annette_g> no

Annette Greiner: no ←

15:11:01 <yaso> Not yet, deirdre

Yaso Córdova: Not yet, deirdre ←

15:11:04 <laufer> w--e    a--   he--..ari--ng      y  o  u  ... li---ke    thi...s

Carlos Laufer: w--e a-- he--..ari--ng y o u ... li---ke thi...s ←

15:11:06 <BernadetteLoscio> please, create an action for me to send a new message to Andrea

Bernadette Farias Loscio: please, create an action for me to send a new message to Andrea ←

15:11:24 <yaso> Run out of credits on skype, and then run out of battery in our bluetooth micro

Yaso Córdova: Run out of credits on skype, and then run out of battery in our bluetooth micro ←

15:11:32 <phila> action-150?

ACTION-150? ←

15:11:32 <trackbot> action-150 -- Bernadette Farias Loscio to Write to andrea perego informing of the new text -- due 2015-04-20 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-150 -- Bernadette Farias Loscio to Write to andrea perego informing of the new text -- due 2015-04-20 -- OPEN ←

15:11:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/150

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/150 ←

15:11:55 <deirdrelee> we can hear you, talk to us!

Deirdre Lee: we can hear you, talk to us! ←

15:11:58 <deirdrelee> what's happening?

Deirdre Lee: what's happening? ←

15:12:02 <Ig_Bittencourt> gguizzardi: the discussion was about Andrea's comments about the BP Doc.

Giancarlo Guizzardi: the discussion was about Andrea's comments about the BP Doc. [ Scribe Assist by Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto ] ←

15:12:04 <BernadetteLoscio> thanks Phil!

Bernadette Farias Loscio: thanks Phil! ←

15:12:08 <laufer> apollo 14 it´s back home

Carlos Laufer: apollo 14 it´s back home ←

15:12:12 <Ig_Bittencourt> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3003?cid=3003

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3003?cid=3003 ←

15:12:13 <gguizzardi> Thanks, Ig.

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Thanks, Ig. ←

15:12:15 <Ig_Bittencourt> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3005

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3005 ←

15:12:18 <ericstephan> Yes

Eric Stephan: Yes ←

15:12:24 <gguizzardi> I couldn't hear anything

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I couldn't hear anything ←

15:12:28 <gguizzardi> Now, it seems to be working again

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Now, it seems to be working again ←

15:12:32 <gguizzardi> thanks!

Giancarlo Guizzardi: thanks! ←

15:12:33 <ericstephan> drums beating

Eric Stephan: drums beating ←

15:12:36 <antoine> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP

Antoine Isaac: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP ←

15:12:46 <phila> deirdrelee: Back to you Antoine - with audio and a functioning wiki

Deirdre Lee: Back to you Antoine - with audio and a functioning wiki ←

15:12:58 <phila> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP ←

15:13:26 <phila> antoine: First thing ion the agenda is trying to identify relevant requirements from the Best Practices

Antoine Isaac: First thing on the agenda is trying to identify relevant requirements from the Best Practices ←

15:13:42 <annette_g> s/ion/on/

15:13:44 <phila> antoine: First outcome is a table https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP#Requirements

Antoine Isaac: First outcome is a table https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Requirements_From_FPWD_BP#Requirements ←

15:14:15 <phila> antoine: We're aware of different levels. Some reqs are more general than making classes and properties in the vocab

Antoine Isaac: We're aware of different levels. Some reqs are more general than making classes and properties in the vocab ←

15:15:04 <phila> ... third catageory is what we called competency questions

... third catageory is what we called competency questions ←

15:15:26 <phila> ... for e.g. there has to be a quality score. This calls for classes and props to describe the score

... for e.g. there has to be a quality score. This calls for classes and props to describe the score ←

15:15:45 <phila> ... what we could do is to go through these requirements

... what we could do is to go through these requirements ←

15:15:56 <phila> ... I could go through them all and then get an overview

... I could go through them all and then get an overview ←

15:16:27 <phila> ... for example, the first req stems from BPs 2 and 8,

... for example, the first req stems from BPs 2 and 8, ←

15:17:03 <phila> ... this is something about how the vocab shouold be desigend in general. It's a general need for data quality expression as some form of metadata but not what form it should take

... this is something about how the vocab shouold be desigend in general. It's a general need for data quality expression as some form of metadata but not what form it should take ←

15:17:40 <Makx_Dekkers> q+

Makx Dekkers: q+ ←

15:17:46 <Makx_Dekkers> q+

Makx Dekkers: q+ ←

15:17:54 <phila> ack Makx_Dekkers

ack Makx_Dekkers ←

15:18:32 <phila> Makx_Dekkers: Maybe a more fundamental Q first.

Makx Dekkers: Maybe a more fundamental Q first. ←

15:18:49 <phila> ... We have rewuirements and then we jump to the conclusion that we need a vocab for that

... We have rewuirements and then we jump to the conclusion that we need a vocab for that ←

15:18:57 <phila> ... a lot can already be expressed in DCAT et al

... a lot can already be expressed in DCAT et al ←

15:19:02 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

15:19:22 <phila> ... intrinsic characteristics of datasets can be expressed. Why are we jumping to a new vocab - maybe we can do it already?

... intrinsic characteristics of datasets can be expressed. Why are we jumping to a new vocab - maybe we can do it already? ←

15:19:25 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

15:19:26 <phila> ack annette_g

ack annette_g ←

15:19:32 <laufer> I feel the same...

Carlos Laufer: I feel the same... ←

15:19:42 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+ ←

15:19:48 <laufer> q+

Carlos Laufer: q+ ←

15:19:49 <phila> annette_g: It's in our charter to do this. There are lots of things that we left out of the BO doc because we thought they'd be in the quality vocab

Annette Greiner: It's in our charter to do this. There are lots of things that we left out of the BP doc because we thought they'd be in the quality vocab ←

15:19:59 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

15:20:12 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

15:20:20 <annette_g> s/BO doc/BP doc/

15:20:44 <riccardoAlbertoni> deirdrelee: we are not defining vocabulary for its sake but we want to address specifically quality

Deirdre Lee: we are not defining vocabulary for its sake but we want to address specifically quality [ Scribe Assist by Riccardo Albertoni ] ←

15:21:02 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

15:21:10 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee

Deirdre Lee: ack deirdrelee ←

15:21:22 <riccardoAlbertoni> perhaps, we don't need a new vocabulary but we want more  a plrofile

Riccardo Albertoni: perhaps, we don't need a new vocabulary but we want more application profile ←

15:21:35 <deirdrelee> s/a plrofile/application profile

15:22:00 <deirdrelee> ack antoine

Deirdre Lee: ack antoine ←

15:22:23 <deirdrelee> ack laufer

Deirdre Lee: ack laufer ←

15:22:28 <riccardoAlbertoni> antoine: we are identifining requirements if these requirements are already satisfied by existing vocabulary so we can avoid to have  a new one, bu first let picture  requirements

Antoine Isaac: we are identifining requirements if these requirements are already satisfied by existing vocabulary so we can avoid to have a new one, bu first let picture requirements [ Scribe Assist by Riccardo Albertoni ] ←

15:23:08 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

15:23:32 <riccardoAlbertoni> laufer:  maybe we don't have to define a new vocabulary but give advice on how to use the existing

Carlos Laufer: maybe we don't have to define a new vocabulary but give advice on how to use the existing [ Scribe Assist by Riccardo Albertoni ] ←

15:23:42 <phila> scribe: phila

15:23:42 <riccardoAlbertoni> q+

Riccardo Albertoni: q+ ←

15:24:05 <phila> ack BernadetteLoscio

ack BernadetteLoscio ←

15:24:05 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

15:24:24 <deirdrelee> close speaker queue

Deirdre Lee: close speaker queue ←

15:24:29 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: We don't know exactly *what* should be described to cover quality

Bernadette Farias Loscio: We don't know exactly *what* should be described to cover quality ←

15:24:41 <deirdrelee> zakim, close the queue

Deirdre Lee: zakim, close the queue ←

15:24:41 <Zakim> ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed ←

15:24:48 <gguizzardi> I fully agree with Bernadette

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I fully agree with Bernadette ←

15:24:52 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+ ←

15:25:42 <phila> Ig_Bittencourt: I agree with Berna that we should follow up with a conceptual framework to define the vocab

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: I agree with Berna that we should follow up with a conceptual framework to define the vocab ←

15:25:55 <phila> ... I like the way Antoine has started. Also important to define the concepts

... I like the way Antoine has started. Also important to define the concepts ←

15:25:56 <Ig_Bittencourt> http://www.slideshare.net/OpenDataSupport/open-data-quality-29248578

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: http://www.slideshare.net/OpenDataSupport/open-data-quality-29248578 ←

15:26:05 <phila> ... e.g. (points to makx's work)

... e.g. (points to makx's work) ←

15:26:05 <deirdrelee> ack Ig_Bittencourt

Deirdre Lee: ack Ig_Bittencourt ←

15:26:46 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: The table of reqs that we have - fne - but how to provide the quality metrics

Bernadette Farias Loscio: The table of reqs that we have - fne - but how to provide the quality metrics ←

15:27:06 <phila> ack ericstephan

ack ericstephan ←

15:27:51 <phila> ericstephan: I was at a smart release workshop a month ago. One of the things they said was there are a lot of vocabs but very few effots to get things done

Eric Stephan: I was at a smart release workshop a month ago. One of the things they said was there are a lot of vocabs but very few effots to get things done ←

15:28:03 <phila> ... the DUV is a kind of glue

... the DUV is a kind of glue ←

15:28:05 <Ig_Bittencourt> If you look in the link, there are some dimensions: accuracy, availability, completeness, conformance, consistency, credibility, processability, relevance and timeliness

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: If you look in the link, there are some dimensions: accuracy, availability, completeness, conformance, consistency, credibility, processability, relevance and timeliness ←

15:28:12 <ericstephan> Has http://qudt.org/ been considered for standard quantities? It might be useful for metrics

Eric Stephan: Has http://qudt.org/ been considered for standard quantities? It might be useful for metrics ←

15:28:38 <phila> ericstephan: The otehr comment - Jeremy Tandy sent me a link to a vocab for quantity that I thought was useful

Eric Stephan: The otehr comment - Jeremy Tandy sent me a link to a vocab for quantity that I thought was useful ←

15:28:53 <phila> ... a standardised set of metrics would be good

... a standardised set of metrics would be good ←

15:28:54 <phila> Ack annette_g

Ack annette_g ←

15:29:14 <phila> annette_g: I wanted to agree with eric and Berna - we need to focus on the metrics that are in the caht. That's the value

Annette Greiner: I wanted to agree with eric and Berna - we need to focus on the metrics that are in the caht. That's the value ←

15:29:26 <phila> ... I appreciate the effort that went into the list

... I appreciate the effort that went into the list ←

15:29:34 <phila> ... but I don't want to reiterate what we already have in the BP doc

... but I don't want to reiterate what we already have in the BP doc ←

15:29:42 <riccardoAlbertoni> q-

Riccardo Albertoni: q- ←

15:29:49 <phila> ... requirements to include prov - that's BP

... requirements to include prov - that's BP ←

15:29:56 <SumitPurohit> +1 annette_g

Sumit Purohit: +1 annette_g ←

15:30:01 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to antoine

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to antoine ←

15:30:06 <phila> ... those would be hard to discuss without a vocab

... those would be hard to discuss without a vocab ←

15:30:09 <Ig_Bittencourt> ops... +1 to annette_g

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: ops... +1 to annette_g ←

15:30:25 <phila> deirdrelee: So, Antoine, what do you see as the next steps

Deirdre Lee: So, Antoine, what do you see as the next steps ←

15:30:39 <deirdrelee> zakim, open the queue

Deirdre Lee: zakim, open the queue ←

15:30:39 <Zakim> ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is open

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is open ←

15:30:46 <antoine> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_quality_schedule

Antoine Isaac: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_quality_schedule ←

15:31:10 <phila> antoine: The schedule includes a lot of references to things like the work already mentioned

Antoine Isaac: The schedule includes a lot of references to things like the work already mentioned ←

15:31:19 <phila> ... we do want to start from the UCR as a concrete starting poinbt

... we do want to start from the UCR as a concrete starting poinbt ←

15:31:34 <phila> .. Helps to identify what we should focus on

.. Helps to identify what we should focus on ←

15:31:44 <Makx_Dekkers> q+

Makx Dekkers: q+ ←

15:31:54 <phila> ... Right now we're focussed more on looking at ...

... Right now we're focussed more on looking at ... ←

15:31:54 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

15:32:11 <phila> ... after the f2f we hope we'll have enough consensus on the scope to sgtart looking at the related work

... after the f2f we hope we'll have enough consensus on the scope to sgtart looking at the related work ←

15:32:19 <phila> s/looking at.../ looking at the scope/

s/looking at.../ looking at the scope/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

15:32:21 <phila> ack Makx_Dekkers

ack Makx_Dekkers ←

15:32:52 <phila> Makx_Dekkers: Coming back to an earlier poinbt - we're still talking on the meta level. How to express quality. We're not talking about what quality is

Makx Dekkers: Coming back to an earlier poinbt - we're still talking on the meta level. How to express quality. We're not talking about what quality is ←

15:33:12 <phila> ... something we discussed at Share-PSI in Romania - what do people think reflects quality

... something we discussed at Share-PSI in Romania - what do people think reflects quality ←

15:33:26 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

15:33:37 <phila> ... I wrote a message to the group - we want a metric like processability

... I wrote a message to the group - we want a metric like processability ←

15:33:55 <phila> ... someone said well, a metric for that wouold be the number of stars in the 5 star scheme

... someone said well, a metric for that wouold be the number of stars in the 5 star scheme ←

15:34:09 <riccardoAlbertoni> q+

Riccardo Albertoni: q+ ←

15:34:13 <phila> ... so far we used 'quality' the same way we use otehr words

... so far we used 'quality' the same way we use otehr words ←

15:34:28 <phila> ... they want info about processability, consistency etc.

... they want info about processability, consistency etc. ←

15:34:45 <phila> ... then you can see whether there is an objective metric, or a subjective metric, like freshness

... then you can see whether there is an objective metric, or a subjective metric, like freshness ←

15:34:49 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

15:34:52 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

15:34:54 <phila> ... I think we need to get to what are the components of quality

... I think we need to get to what are the components of quality ←

15:35:07 <phila> ... you can say how fresh data is but you don't need a qulaity vocab for that

... you can say how fresh data is but you don't need a qulaity vocab for that ←

15:35:15 <phila> ... I;m not sure we're going into the right aspects

... I'm not sure we're going into the right aspects ←

15:35:18 <phila> ack deirdrelee

ack deirdrelee ←

15:35:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

15:35:34 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

15:35:40 <phila> deirdrelee: What Antoine, riccardo and I have been looking at is how to describe quality in an abstract layer

Deirdre Lee: What Antoine, riccardo and I have been looking at is how to describe quality in an abstract layer ←

15:36:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

15:36:01 <phila> ... then the next layer is the dimensions - and that's what I think makx is talkinbg about

... then the next layer is the dimensions - and that's what I think makx is talkinbg about ←

15:36:12 <phila> ... and then at the lowest level - the metrics, how do you measure it

... and then at the lowest level - the metrics, how do you measure it ←

15:36:47 <phila> ... If that's all in scope for us is to be decided

... If that's all in scope for us is to be decided ←

15:36:49 <phila> ack riccardoAlbertoni

ack riccardoAlbertoni ←

15:36:52 <Makx_Dekkers> i think daq describes the abstract layer

Makx Dekkers: i think daq describes the abstract layer ←

15:37:02 <BernadetteLoscio> the sound is really bad!

Bernadette Farias Loscio: the sound is really bad! ←

15:37:21 <Makx_Dekkers> cant hear either

Makx Dekkers: cant hear either ←

15:37:21 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni: I would like to add some words... I am a big supporter of metrics, but I'm not sure they're the only way to express quality

Riccardo Albertoni: I would like to add some words... I am a big supporter of metrics, but I'm not sure they're the only way to express quality ←

15:37:29 <laufer> daq is kind of "foundation ontology" for quality...

Carlos Laufer: daq is kind of "foundation ontology" for quality... ←

15:37:38 <yaso> +1 to riccardoAlbertoni

Yaso Córdova: +1 to riccardoAlbertoni ←

15:37:51 <ericstephan> +1 laufer

Eric Stephan: +1 laufer ←

15:38:14 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni: My question is - is there any other way to represent qwuality that we should consider

Riccardo Albertoni: My question is - is there any other way to represent qwuality that we should consider ←

15:38:21 <Makx_Dekkers> 'metrics' can also be subjective statements not necessarily numbers

Makx Dekkers: 'metrics' can also be subjective statements not necessarily numbers ←

15:38:31 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

15:38:37 <phila> ... for example - people publishing open data will assess the quality in some metrics framework, or a short decsription

... for example - people publishing open data will assess the quality in some metrics framework, or a short decsription ←

15:38:43 <phila> ... what is really used by people?

... what is really used by people? ←

15:38:55 <phila> ... I know about metrics and we'll have a framework,

... I know about metrics and we'll have a framework, ←

15:39:02 <ericstephan> Could you give an example Makx_Dekkers ?

Eric Stephan: Could you give an example Makx_Dekkers ? ←

15:39:21 <phila> ... but I guess that at the moment, as metrics aren't so commonly deployed, people figure out other ways to speak out quality

... but I guess that at the moment, as metrics aren't so commonly deployed, people figure out other ways to speak out quality ←

15:39:26 <Gisele> about terminology - a metric is a number, a "measure" can be a different thing

Gisele Pappa: about terminology - a metric is a number, a "measure" can be a different thing ←

15:39:28 <phila> ack annette_g

ack annette_g ←

15:39:39 <phila> annette_g: hard to jear what you were saying

Annette Greiner: hard to hear what you were saying ←

15:39:55 <phila> ... looking at what we have to start with, porocessability is embodied in others

... looking at what we have to start with, porocessability is embodied in others ←

15:39:56 <newton_> s/jear/hear

15:40:13 <phila> ... accuracy, completeness etc.

... accuracy, completeness etc. ←

15:40:26 <phila> ... these are all good, but processability will be determined by the otehr dimensions

... these are all good, but processability will be determined by the otehr dimensions ←

15:40:29 <phila> ack BernadetteLoscio

ack BernadetteLoscio ←

15:40:36 <annette_g> the list: accuracy,

Annette Greiner: the list: accuracy, ←

15:40:36 <annette_g> availability,

Annette Greiner: availability, ←

15:40:36 <annette_g> completeness,

Annette Greiner: completeness, ←

15:40:36 <annette_g> conformance,

Annette Greiner: conformance, ←

15:40:37 <annette_g> consistency,

Annette Greiner: consistency, ←

15:40:37 <annette_g> credibility,

Annette Greiner: credibility, ←

15:40:37 <annette_g> processability,

Annette Greiner: processability, ←

15:40:38 <annette_g> relevance

Annette Greiner: relevance ←

15:40:38 <annette_g> timeliness

Annette Greiner: timeliness ←

15:40:59 <yaso> deirdre I can try

Yaso Córdova: deirdre I can try ←

15:41:02 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: We have dimensions, critera, metrics

Bernadette Farias Loscio: We have dimensions, critera, metrics ←

15:41:09 <antoine> @annette where is this list coming from?

Antoine Isaac: @annette where is this list coming from? ←

15:41:33 <antoine> @annette is it fromMakx' presentation?

Antoine Isaac: @annette is it fromMakx' presentation? ←

15:41:34 <phila> deirdrelee: For me, annette's list is a list of dimensions

Deirdre Lee: For me, annette's list is a list of dimensions ←

15:41:37 <annette_g> Ig pasted it in before

Annette Greiner: Ig pasted it in before ←

15:41:41 <phila> ... we can also call them criteria

... we can also call them criteria ←

15:41:51 <Ig_Bittencourt> yes antoine

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: yes antoine ←

15:42:07 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: We can look at th literature an dsee what is at different levels

Bernadette Farias Loscio: We can look at th literature an dsee what is at different levels ←

15:42:23 <annette_g> +1 to Bernadette

Annette Greiner: +1 to Bernadette ←

15:42:34 <phila> ... I think it should have a way to describe these criteria - which I think is a better word than dimensions

... I think it should have a way to describe these criteria - which I think is a better word than dimensions ←

15:43:04 <phila> group discusses dimension vs criteria

group discusses dimension vs criteria ←

15:43:16 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

15:43:26 <phila> deirdrelee: Please use the queue or remotes can't understand

Deirdre Lee: Please use the queue or remotes can't understand ←

15:43:50 <Ig_Bittencourt> q-

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q- ←

15:43:50 <yaso> define as items, maybe?

Yaso Córdova: define as items, maybe? ←

15:43:52 <phila> deirdrelee: Want to go back to Antoine... want to focus the conversation

Deirdre Lee: Want to go back to Antoine... want to focus the conversation ←

15:43:57 <ericstephan> scribe:  ericstephan

(Scribe set to Eric Stephan)

15:44:35 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: what do you want to spend the next hour on antoine ?

Deirdre Lee: what do you want to spend the next hour on antoine ? ←

15:45:06 <phila> q+ to take a stab at that list

Phil Archer: q+ to take a stab at that list ←

15:45:13 <annette_g> http://onlinehelp.tableau.com/v6.1/public/online/en-us/Id112A8A00YEX.html

Annette Greiner: http://onlinehelp.tableau.com/v6.1/public/online/en-us/Id112A8A00YEX.html ←

15:45:19 <ericstephan> antoine: We should add dimensions and metrics and have standards to represent that...

Antoine Isaac: We should add dimensions and metrics and have standards to represent that... ←

15:45:42 <annette_g> q+ to say maybe we mean measures?

Annette Greiner: q+ to say maybe we mean measures? ←

15:45:52 <ericstephan> antoine: maybe we could go to the next stage, actually defining dimensions and metrics

Antoine Isaac: maybe we could go to the next stage, actually defining dimensions and metrics ←

15:46:19 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

15:46:21 <laufer> daq talk about categories...

Carlos Laufer: daq talk about categories... ←

15:46:32 <ericstephan> antoine: In the next hour get some confirmation on dimensions and metrics, looking at the use case owner as well to get some confirmation as well

Antoine Isaac: In the next hour get some confirmation on dimensions and metrics, looking at the use case owner as well to get some confirmation as well ←

15:47:16 <ericstephan> antoine: do we have the right amount of information as well?

Antoine Isaac: do we have the right amount of information as well? ←

15:47:21 <antoine> @annette we have put definition in our draft questions: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/QualityQuestionnaire

Antoine Isaac: @annette we have put definition in our draft questions: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/QualityQuestionnaire ←

15:47:26 <annette_g> q-

Annette Greiner: q- ←

15:47:26 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

15:47:27 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to take a stab at that list

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to take a stab at that list ←

15:48:22 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

15:48:30 <ericstephan> phila: (sorry hard to hear) mentioned layered model, Makx_Dekkers mentioned the need for accuracy conformance etc.

Phil Archer: (sorry hard to hear) mentioned layered model, Makx_Dekkers mentioned the need for accuracy conformance etc. ←

15:48:48 <Makx_Dekkers> q+

Makx Dekkers: q+ ←

15:49:06 <ericstephan> phila: some things can only be described in natural language, how do you declare credibility for instance?  Very difficult problems...

Phil Archer: some things can only be described in natural language, how do you declare credibility for instance? Very difficult problems... ←

15:49:37 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

15:49:37 <ericstephan> phila: How you express that difficult, how it is expressed in a use case helps provide focus

Phil Archer: How you express that difficult, how it is expressed in a use case helps provide focus ←

15:49:53 <ericstephan> phila - I hope I captured your thoughts...

phila - I hope I captured your thoughts... ←

15:50:30 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

15:50:46 <ericstephan> SumitPurohit: If the relevance is not there, its all subjective.  Quantitative measurements are criteria we can provide guidance.

Sumit Purohit: If the relevance is not there, its all subjective. Quantitative measurements are criteria we can provide guidance. ←

15:50:47 <deirdrelee> ack SumitPurohit

Deirdre Lee: ack SumitPurohit ←

15:51:09 <phila> phila: I mean that that list of dimensions is helpful. How you declare each of them will vary and may or may not need a new vocab. ANd we'll prob have to be flexible in how it's expressed anyway

Phil Archer: I mean that that list of dimensions is helpful. How you declare each of them will vary and may or may not need a new vocab. ANd we'll prob have to be flexible in how it's expressed anyway [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

15:51:28 <phila> phila: And the fact the our charter says we'll create a vocab is not a reason to do it. Use cases are

Phil Archer: And the fact the our charter says we'll create a vocab is not a reason to do it. Use cases are [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

15:52:06 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: we have stronger feelings around the abstract layer than metrics etc.  It should be closed, always will be exceptions.

Deirdre Lee: we have stronger feelings around the abstract layer than metrics etc. It should be closed, always will be exceptions. ←

15:52:41 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to deirdrelee  dimensions can't be a close set we define

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 to deirdrelee dimensions can't be a close set we define ←

15:52:47 <phila> ack Makx_Dekkers

Phil Archer: ack Makx_Dekkers ←

15:52:50 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: reliability is subjective, it needs specific critiera.

Deirdre Lee: reliability is subjective, it needs specific critiera. ←

15:52:52 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee

Deirdre Lee: ack deirdrelee ←

15:53:36 <ericstephan> Makx_Dekkers: phila said some things can be computed (repeatibility) the level of quality based on opinions, relability is perspective based.

Makx Dekkers: phila said some things can be computed (repeatibility) the level of quality based on opinions, relability is perspective based. ←

15:54:10 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

15:54:19 <ericstephan> Makx_Dekkers: raw data that needs to be verified, for some communities the data is valuable (mashups) might not be for other communities.

Makx Dekkers: raw data that needs to be verified, for some communities the data is valuable (mashups) might not be for other communities. ←

15:54:21 <laufer> we are mixing the dimensoins of what we call quality with dimensions of qualities of the dataset...

Carlos Laufer: we are mixing the dimensoins of what we call quality with dimensions of qualities of the dataset... ←

15:54:45 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

15:54:47 <phila> ack BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

15:54:56 <ericstephan> Makx_Dekkers: maybe step back to the abstract level to answer "who says" its quality.  Credintials perhaps?  Provenance may help here

Makx Dekkers: maybe step back to the abstract level to answer "who says" its quality. Credintials perhaps? Provenance may help here ←

15:56:12 <ericstephan> BernadetteLoscio: Describing the quality of a dataset is important, the vocabulary should provide the means to provide common terms to describe quality in their own particular way.  E.g. dimension concept.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Describing the quality of a dataset is important, the vocabulary should provide the means to provide common terms to describe quality in their own particular way. E.g. dimension concept. ←

15:56:39 <ericstephan> BernadetteLoscio: maybe the vocabulary should be about describing the concepts not the properties

Bernadette Farias Loscio: maybe the vocabulary should be about describing the concepts not the properties ←

15:56:40 <phila> q+ to talk about PROV of statements

Phil Archer: q+ to talk about PROV of statements ←

15:56:46 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

15:57:25 <laufer> who say what are the dimensions of quality that would be important...  different consumers could have different qualities needs...

Carlos Laufer: who say what are the dimensions of quality that would be important... different consumers could have different qualities needs... ←

15:57:31 <ericstephan> annette_g: maybe part of the solution to this, is not having a good/bad assignment, its more about definiing what raw data means...

Annette Greiner: maybe part of the solution to this, is not having a good/bad assignment, its more about definiing what raw data means... ←

15:57:48 <ericstephan> annette_g: provide clarity on terms as opposed to judgements about the data

Annette Greiner: provide clarity on terms as opposed to judgements about the data ←

15:58:27 <ericstephan> annette_g: my first question about datasets is:  how clean is it, how many zeros are in it etc.  These are in my mind important to capture.

Annette Greiner: my first question about datasets is: how clean is it, how many zeros are in it etc. These are in my mind important to capture. ←

15:59:53 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: agree with annette_g , its not the most useful thing is to describe how reliable something is...where we can define items we should, defined in vocabulary or examples...

Deirdre Lee: agree with annette_g , its not the most useful thing is to describe how reliable something is...where we can define items we should, defined in vocabulary or examples... ←

15:59:57 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

15:59:57 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about PROV of statements

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to talk about PROV of statements ←

16:00:03 <deirdrelee> ack me

Deirdre Lee: ack me ←

16:00:11 <phila> https://certificates.theodi.org/about

Phil Archer: https://certificates.theodi.org/about ←

16:00:43 <laufer> what is the quality of a mp3 file...

Carlos Laufer: what is the quality of a mp3 file... ←

16:00:55 <ericstephan> phila: we talk about the dimensions theodi tries to get around the complexity with ennumerations but not describe what that means.

Phil Archer: we talk about the dimensions theodi tries to get around the complexity with ennumerations but not describe what that means. ←

16:01:02 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

16:01:42 <riccardoAlbertoni>  BTW, PROV of statements happens to be the requirement no.5 in the list of requirements

Riccardo Albertoni: BTW, PROV of statements happens to be the requirement no.5 in the list of requirements ←

16:01:53 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

16:02:02 <ericstephan> phila: theodi advangtage is simplicity, compared to provenance it might not always be accurate we need to weigh these different approaches

Phil Archer: theodi advangtage is simplicity, compared to provenance it might not always be accurate we need to weigh these different approaches ←

16:02:33 <ericstephan> q+

q+ ←

16:02:37 <riccardoAlbertoni> speak louder please

Riccardo Albertoni: speak louder please ←

16:03:07 <ericstephan> antoine: (had trouble hearing)

Antoine Isaac: (had trouble hearing) ←

16:03:44 <Makx_Dekkers> q+

Makx Dekkers: q+ ←

16:03:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila ←

16:04:05 <riccardoAlbertoni> q+

Riccardo Albertoni: q+ ←

16:04:07 <ericstephan> antoine: from the completeness perspective, its difficult to find completeness.  Should we attempt to define metrics or is it perhaps to difficult?

Antoine Isaac: from the completeness perspective, its difficult to find completeness. Should we attempt to define metrics or is it perhaps to difficult? ←

16:04:23 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

16:04:35 <BernadetteLoscio> +q

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +q ←

16:04:37 <phila> ack ericstephan

Phil Archer: ack ericstephan ←

16:04:38 <gguizzardi> q+

Giancarlo Guizzardi: q+ ←

16:04:55 <riccardoAlbertoni> q-

Riccardo Albertoni: q- ←

16:05:16 <phila> ericstephan: We have something to start on. I like Annete's idea of a base vocab that I can adpt to what I need

Eric Stephan: We have something to start on. I like Annete's idea of a base vocab that I can adpt to what I need [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

16:05:30 <phila> ... I like general terms that I can tailor

Phil Archer: ... I like general terms that I can tailor ←

16:05:48 <phila> ... terms might not always work out but we start from a common definition

Phil Archer: ... terms might not always work out but we start from a common definition ←

16:06:16 <phila> ... start at the concept level and then add properties. That's the starting place I think

Phil Archer: ... start at the concept level and then add properties. That's the starting place I think ←

16:06:21 <phila> ack Makx_Dekkers

Phil Archer: ack Makx_Dekkers ←

16:06:37 <riccardoAlbertoni> a lot echo

Riccardo Albertoni: a lot echo ←

16:07:08 <phila> Makx_Dekkers: Eric made a good point. Quality is in the eye of the beholder.

Makx Dekkers: Eric made a good point. Quality is in the eye of the beholder. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

16:07:26 <phila> ... it's about giving people enough info to allow them to decide whether it's useful

Phil Archer: ... it's about giving people enough info to allow them to decide whether it's useful ←

16:07:51 <phila> ... is it complete, yes or not? I think it's about perspective. The publisher may not think it's complete

Phil Archer: ... is it complete, yes or not? I think it's about perspective. The publisher may not think it's complete ←

16:08:03 <ericstephan> Makx_Dekkers: quality is in the perception in the way a person looks at it.  antoine mentioned is it complete yes or no?  In the eyes of the data owner, they will provide a subjective answer.

Makx Dekkers: quality is in the perception in the way a person looks at it. antoine mentioned is it complete yes or no? In the eyes of the data owner, they will provide a subjective answer. ←

16:08:10 <phila> ... (gives example of subjective statements)

Phil Archer: ... (gives example of subjective statements) ←

16:08:18 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+ ←

16:09:25 <yaso> q?

Yaso Córdova: q? ←

16:09:29 <Ig_Bittencourt> daq

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: daq ←

16:09:40 <ericstephan> Ig_Bittencourt: starting to rethink about the need for a vocabulary.  If we look at each dimension, it could be very difficult to maintain.  If we need to go to a new vocabulary we need to think about the ramifications of redefining metrics etc

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: starting to rethink about the need for a vocabulary. If we look at each dimension, it could be very difficult to maintain. If we need to go to a new vocabulary we need to think about the ramifications of redefining metrics etc ←

16:10:05 <ericstephan> Ig_Bittencourt: maybe we should define a foundational ontology for that.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: maybe we should define a foundational ontology for that. ←

16:10:27 <Ig_Bittencourt> http://butterbur04.iai.uni-bonn.de/ontologies/daq/daq#

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: http://butterbur04.iai.uni-bonn.de/ontologies/daq/daq# ←

16:10:52 <ericstephan> BernadetteLoscio: The vocabulary - the daq could be the starting point for the vocabulary.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: The vocabulary - the daq could be the starting point for the vocabulary. ←

16:11:18 <riccardoAlbertoni> it is actually listed among the vocabulary on which we can start building ..

Riccardo Albertoni: it is actually listed among the vocabulary on which we can start building .. ←

16:11:20 <laufer> q+

Carlos Laufer: q+ ←

16:11:21 <antoine> well we're already doing this

Antoine Isaac: well we're already doing this ←

16:11:25 <ericstephan> BernadetteLoscio: we should start with something that is there, if they have a description for dimensions, why not use that as a starting place?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we should start with something that is there, if they have a description for dimensions, why not use that as a starting place? ←

16:11:46 <gguizzardi> Giancarlo Guizzardi

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Giancarlo Guizzardi ←

16:11:51 <laufer> I think we have here problems with different complexity levles for the audience of our documents

Carlos Laufer: I think we have here problems with different complexity levles for the audience of our documents ←

16:11:57 <deirdrelee> ack Ig_Bittencourt

Deirdre Lee: ack Ig_Bittencourt ←

16:12:00 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

16:12:02 <deirdrelee> ack gguizzardi

Deirdre Lee: ack gguizzardi ←

16:12:14 <deirdrelee> zakim, close the queue

Deirdre Lee: zakim, close the queue ←

16:12:14 <Zakim> ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed ←

16:12:46 <ericstephan> gguizzardi: One issue which I think is important to address dimensions and metrics, we should provide a vocabulary to describe things in a way that someone else will understand.  We are just providing a language.

Giancarlo Guizzardi: One issue which I think is important to address dimensions and metrics, we should provide a vocabulary to describe things in a way that someone else will understand. We are just providing a language. ←

16:13:35 <deirdrelee> ack gguizzardi

Deirdre Lee: ack gguizzardi ←

16:13:36 <ericstephan> gguizzardi: I should know if I am publishing data it would be useful to provide a language so that people can talk about it

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I should know if I am publishing data it would be useful to provide a language so that people can talk about it ←

16:14:06 <ericstephan> antoine: I agree with many things, I have a lot of doubts on granularity in terms of what we should address.

Antoine Isaac: I agree with many things, I have a lot of doubts on granularity in terms of what we should address. ←

16:14:50 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

16:15:09 <ericstephan> antoine: completeness I could think of the amount to represent persons, it could be about the average (something) about all persons,

Antoine Isaac: completeness I could think of the amount to represent persons, it could be about the average of the time a name is present about all persons, ←

16:15:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

16:15:43 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

16:15:46 <ericstephan> antoine: there is a whole range about possibilities and there isn't a lot of concrete clues about what we should focus on.

Antoine Isaac: there is a whole range about possibilities and there isn't a lot of concrete clues about what we should focus on. ←

16:15:46 <phila> That's an interesting point re Use Cases

Phil Archer: That's an interesting point re Use Cases ←

16:15:50 <deirdrelee> ack antoine

Deirdre Lee: ack antoine ←

16:15:56 <deirdrelee> ack laufer

Deirdre Lee: ack laufer ←

16:16:10 <antoine> s/(something)/of the time a name is present

16:16:35 <ericstephan> laufer: I don't know if we have two different complexities around the document we are writing here.  Wil the BP document be the same as how to generate information on the quality of data.

Carlos Laufer: I don't know if we have two different complexities around the document we are writing here. Wil the BP document be the same as how to generate information on the quality of data. ←

16:16:41 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

16:16:44 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

16:16:58 <ericstephan> laufer: How are we addressing things from the consumers perspective?

Carlos Laufer: How are we addressing things from the consumers perspective? ←

16:17:05 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Provide a vocab (or vocab AP) to allow someone to define quality of data on the web PROPOSED: This vocab AP should allow someone to define a quality dimension PROPOSED: This vocab AP should allow someone to define a quality metric PROPOSED: Quality vocab should include specific dimentsions (not exhaustive) PROPOSED: Specific dimensions should be defined as separate list PROPOSED: Quality vocab should include specific metrics (not exhaustive)[CUT]

PROPOSED: Provide a vocab (or vocab AP) to allow someone to define quality of data on the web PROPOSED: This vocab AP should allow someone to define a quality dimension PROPOSED: This vocab AP should allow someone to define a quality metric PROPOSED: Quality vocab should include specific dimentsions (not exhaustive) PROPOSED: Specific dimensions should be defined as separate list PROPOSED: Quality vocab should include specific metrics (not exhaustive)[CUT] ←

16:17:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

16:17:25 <ericstephan> multiset-proposal?

multiset-proposal? ←

16:17:45 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Provide a vocab (or vocab AP) to allow someone to define quality of data on the web

PROPOSED: Provide a vocab (or vocab AP) to allow someone to define quality of data on the web ←

16:18:04 <Ig_Bittencourt> With this proposal, are we agreeing that we should really provide a vocab?

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: With this proposal, are we agreeing that we should really provide a vocab? ←

16:18:04 <phila> q+ to challenge the assumption in those proposals

Phil Archer: q+ to challenge the assumption in those proposals ←

16:18:27 <deirdrelee> zakim, open the queue

Deirdre Lee: zakim, open the queue ←

16:18:28 <Zakim> ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is open

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is open ←

16:18:31 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: Do you generally agree with the proposal?

Deirdre Lee: Do you generally agree with the proposal? ←

16:18:37 <phila> -1

Phil Archer: -1 ←

16:18:40 <Ig_Bittencourt> -1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: -1 ←

16:18:41 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: does it make sense?

Deirdre Lee: does it make sense? ←

16:18:43 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

16:18:43 <laufer> -1

Carlos Laufer: -1 ←

16:18:59 <Makx_Dekkers> -1

Makx Dekkers: -1 ←

16:19:20 <Ig_Bittencourt> We should first think if we should really provide a new vocab.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: We should first think if we should really provide a new vocab. ←

16:19:41 <ericstephan> phila: The reason why I am saying no, we have antoine saying its difficult to go to the use cases and come up with something concrete about how to move forward?

Phil Archer: The reason why I am saying no, we have antoine saying its difficult to go to the use cases and come up with something concrete about how to move forward? ←

16:20:06 <Makx_Dekkers> the list is not 'correct', it's a list of things that are maybe useful

Makx Dekkers: the list is not 'correct', it's a list of things that are maybe useful ←

16:20:41 <ericstephan> phila: If the list of dimensions are correct, then as the vocab evolves, the list could be used to create other dimensions.

Phil Archer: If the list of dimensions are correct, then as the vocab evolves, the list could be used to create other dimensions. ←

16:20:50 <annette_g> list of caveats?

Annette Greiner: list of caveats? ←

16:20:55 <Makx_Dekkers> +10 to phil

Makx Dekkers: +10 to phil ←

16:21:08 <laufer> \me it seems like things that maybe will be useful to didcover things...

Carlos Laufer: \me it seems like things that maybe will be useful to didcover things... ←

16:21:25 <ericstephan> phila: if one or more of these dimensions shows the need to create a new vocabulary then that provides an argument to move forward on the creation process.

Phil Archer: if one or more of these dimensions shows the need to create a new vocabulary then that provides an argument to move forward on the creation process. ←

16:21:52 <Ig_Bittencourt> I agree with phila.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: I agree with phila. ←

16:22:01 <phila> I was pointing at the list of citeria - accessibility, processability etc

Phil Archer: I was pointing at the list of citeria - accessibility, processability etc ←

16:23:02 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

16:23:13 <BernadetteLoscio> +q

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +q ←

16:23:18 <ericstephan> Makx_Dekkers: the list of dimensions and critiera is what phila was expressing.  What dimensions and criteria you have and contextually how you interpret it.  Frequency is an example of where you can point to an existing vocab rather than inventing  somehting new

Makx Dekkers: the list of dimensions and critiera is what phila was expressing. What dimensions and criteria you have and contextually how you interpret it. Frequency is an example of where you can point to an existing vocab rather than inventing somehting new ←

16:23:30 <antoine> +1 to Makx about the design principle

Antoine Isaac: +1 to Makx about the design principle ←

16:23:38 <phila> Draft proposal: We will consider whether the Open Data Support list of dimensions is the best list we can identify, based on the use cases that we have

Phil Archer: Draft proposal: We will consider whether the Open Data Support list of dimensions is the best list we can identify, based on the use cases that we have ←

16:23:43 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: is there a list of criteria someone has?

Deirdre Lee: is there a list of criteria someone has? ←

16:23:56 <annette_g> accuracy,

Annette Greiner: accuracy, ←

16:23:56 <annette_g> availability,

Annette Greiner: availability, ←

16:23:56 <annette_g> completeness,

Annette Greiner: completeness, ←

16:23:56 <annette_g> conformance,

Annette Greiner: conformance, ←

16:23:57 <annette_g> consistency,

Annette Greiner: consistency, ←

16:23:57 <annette_g> credibility,

Annette Greiner: credibility, ←

16:23:57 <annette_g> processability,

Annette Greiner: processability, ←

16:23:58 <annette_g> relevance

Annette Greiner: relevance ←

16:23:58 <annette_g> timeliness

Annette Greiner: timeliness ←

16:24:08 <antoine> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_quality_notes#Suggested_requirements:

Antoine Isaac: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_quality_notes#Suggested_requirements: ←

16:24:50 <ericstephan> phila: can we evalue this (link) in the context of the use cases?

Phil Archer: can we evalue this (link) in the context of the use cases? ←

16:25:07 <ericstephan> Makx_Dekkers: Its sort of a meta-list of the open data support?

Makx Dekkers: Its sort of a meta-list of the open data support? ←

16:26:35 <Ig_Bittencourt> Some metrics here: http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/jtaer/v9n2/art06.pdf

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Some metrics here: http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/jtaer/v9n2/art06.pdf ←

16:26:38 <ericstephan> phila: we should be able to provide some type of comparison between this and the use cases.  Can someone spend some time just making an assessment at a starting point?

Phil Archer: we should be able to provide some type of comparison between this and the use cases. Can someone spend some time just making an assessment at a starting point? ←

16:27:33 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

16:27:37 <Ig_Bittencourt> deirdrelee: maybe, there are some metrics related to some of these dimensions.

Deirdre Lee: maybe, there are some metrics related to some of these dimensions. [ Scribe Assist by Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto ] ←

16:27:38 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

16:27:52 <Ig_Bittencourt> s\maybe\

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: s\maybe\ ←

16:28:09 <Makx_Dekkers> Open Data Support presentation http://www.slideshare.net/OpenDataSupport/open-data-quality-29248578

Makx Dekkers: Open Data Support presentation http://www.slideshare.net/OpenDataSupport/open-data-quality-29248578 ←

16:28:32 <ericstephan> annette_g: distinction between timelyness and frequency.  its important to address this in the quality vocabulary

Annette Greiner: distinction between timelyness and frequency. its important to address this in the quality vocabulary ←

16:28:36 <giancarlo_guizzardi> q+

Giancarlo Guizzardi: q+ ←

16:29:00 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

16:29:09 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

16:29:16 <ericstephan> BernadetteLoscio: Its going to be hard to extract from the use cases detailed information.  Unless you are familiar with the use case, its difficult to evaluate.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Its going to be hard to extract from the use cases detailed information. Unless you are familiar with the use case, its difficult to evaluate. ←

16:29:22 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

16:29:26 <phila> Draft proposal: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions

Phil Archer: Draft proposal: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions ←

16:29:41 <ericstephan> BernadetteLoscio: from the perspective of the consumer (user) what are the needs?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: from the perspective of the consumer (user) what are the needs? ←

16:29:43 <Makx_Dekkers> I saw one in the requirements: 21 says Quality data must be available in an up-to-date manner and the update frequency made explicit.

Makx Dekkers: I saw one in the requirements: 21 says Quality data must be available in an up-to-date manner and the update frequency made explicit. ←

16:29:57 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

16:30:12 <ericstephan> BernadetteLoscio: we don't have enough to really make the assessment.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we don't have enough to really make the assessment. ←

16:31:15 <ericstephan> giancarlo_guizzardi: It would be a good idea to use a shared open vocabulary, to describe terms from a standard vocabulary rather than use local terms.

Giancarlo Guizzardi: It would be a good idea to use a shared open vocabulary, to describe terms from a standard vocabulary rather than use local terms. ←

16:31:33 <ericstephan> giancarlo_guizzardi: this is just one example

Giancarlo Guizzardi: this is just one example ←

16:31:41 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

16:31:44 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: any vocabs in mind?

Deirdre Lee: any vocabs in mind? ←

16:31:46 <phila> ack giancarlo_guizzardi

Phil Archer: ack giancarlo_guizzardi ←

16:32:16 <ericstephan> giancarlo_guizzardi: everything we put in the recommendation in the bp practice document, we should be giving people a way to show how they can comply

Giancarlo Guizzardi: everything we put in the recommendation in the bp practice document, we should be giving people a way to show how they can comply ←

16:32:34 <annette_g> inaudible

Annette Greiner: inaudible ←

16:32:43 <ericstephan> no sound quality

no sound quality ←

16:32:44 <riccardoAlbertoni>  q+

Riccardo Albertoni: q+ ←

16:32:52 <phila> ack deirdrelee

Phil Archer: ack deirdrelee ←

16:33:56 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

16:34:04 <ericstephan> in one half hour /lunch slash dinner break.  We should find a path forward, even though the use cases aren't complete, we should try to find use cases where these dimensions could be drawn out.

in one half hour /lunch slash dinner break. We should find a path forward, even though the use cases aren't complete, we should try to find use cases where these dimensions could be drawn out. ←

16:34:28 <ericstephan> annette_g: is a survey relevant?  asking people what are the barriers?

Annette Greiner: is a survey relevant? asking people what are the barriers? ←

16:34:31 <phila> ack Ig_Bittencourt

Phil Archer: ack Ig_Bittencourt ←

16:34:31 <ericstephan> q+

q+ ←

16:34:43 <BernadetteLoscio> +1 to Annette

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 to Annette ←

16:35:20 <phila> ack riccardoAlbertoni

Phil Archer: ack riccardoAlbertoni ←

16:35:36 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

16:35:45 <BernadetteLoscio> the sound is bad :(

Bernadette Farias Loscio: the sound is bad :( ←

16:35:47 <giancarlo_guizzardi> very hard to understand

Giancarlo Guizzardi: very hard to understand ←

16:35:48 <ericstephan> riccardoAlbertoni: (hard to hear muffled)

Riccardo Albertoni: (hard to hear muffled) ←

16:36:08 <annette_g> * type it?

Annette Greiner: * type it? ←

16:36:12 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

16:36:16 <ericstephan> riccardoAlbertoni - could you add your thoughts to the notes?

riccardoAlbertoni - could you add your thoughts to the notes? ←

16:36:22 <Makx_Dekkers> compliance to best practice dct:conformsTo

Makx Dekkers: compliance to best practice dct:conformsTo ←

16:36:25 <phila> ack ericstephan

Phil Archer: ack ericstephan ←

16:36:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

16:36:56 <antoine> q+

Antoine Isaac: q+ ←

16:37:13 <riccardoAlbertoni> I was saying compliancy to BP can be a further way to represent quality, that can be used besides metrics,

Riccardo Albertoni: I was saying compliancy to BP can be a further way to represent quality, that can be used besides metrics, ←

16:37:34 <Ig_Bittencourt> Ig_Bittencourt: What I said was that we firstly should define the conceptual framework (e.g. those dimensions) we should follow/use in order to guide us in a more detailed discussion. After that, to check if it is really possible to define metrics for that conceptual framework and so on.....

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: What I said was that we firstly should define the conceptual framework (e.g. those dimensions) we should follow/use in order to guide us in a more detailed discussion. After that, to check if it is really possible to define metrics for that conceptual framework and so on..... [ Scribe Assist by Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto ] ←

16:37:47 <phila> ack antoine

Phil Archer: ack antoine ←

16:38:05 <antoine> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/QualityQuestionnaire

Antoine Isaac: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/QualityQuestionnaire ←

16:38:17 <riccardoAlbertoni> so the my  question was if statements about compliance to Bp should be included in the vocabulary quality

Riccardo Albertoni: so the my question was if statements about compliance to Bp should be included in the vocabulary quality ←

16:38:20 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

16:38:26 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

16:38:33 <ericstephan> antoine: the idea of the survey, would it be different than what we started to put together?  Annette could you send around ideas?

Antoine Isaac: the idea of the survey, would it be different than what we started to put together? Annette could you send around ideas? ←

16:39:15 <ericstephan> annette_g: yes, you show more of a verification.  I suggest something is more open, more qualitatie approach?

Annette Greiner: yes, you show more of a verification. I suggest something is more open, more qualitatie approach? ←

16:39:15 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

16:39:30 <phila> q+ to make a suggestion for gathering some feedback

Phil Archer: q+ to make a suggestion for gathering some feedback ←

16:40:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

16:40:08 <phila> q-

Phil Archer: q- ←

16:40:38 <ericstephan> antoine: trying to understand what you suggest.

Antoine Isaac: trying to understand what you suggest. ←

16:41:07 <ericstephan> annette_g: the point is to get something from an original source, rather than coming up with something on our own.

Annette Greiner: the point is to get something from an original source, rather than coming up with something on our own. ←

16:41:12 <phila> q+ to talk about evidence we already have available

Phil Archer: q+ to talk about evidence we already have available ←

16:41:28 <ericstephan> antoine: thinking about taking this back to the use case owner...

Antoine Isaac: thinking about taking this back to the use case owner... ←

16:41:58 <annette_g> aren't the use case owners people in this group?

Annette Greiner: aren't the use case owners people in this group? ←

16:42:10 <Zakim> -Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ipswich ←

16:42:30 <deirdrelee> sorry guys, we dropped...

Deirdre Lee: sorry guys, we dropped... ←

16:42:32 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> Agree with Antoine

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Agree with Antoine ←

16:43:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←

16:43:13 <ericstephan> We didn't do it this time (just being contextual on quality)

We didn't do it this time (just being contextual on quality) ←

16:43:14 <phila> zakim, ipcaller.aa is Ipswich

Phil Archer: zakim, ipcaller.aa is Ipswich ←

16:43:14 <Zakim> +Ipswich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ipswich; got it ←

16:43:17 <annette_g> W3C has expressed interest in getting better relationships with developers. We should get info from developers for this in particular, not just W3C people.

Annette Greiner: W3C has expressed interest in getting better relationships with developers. We should get info from developers for this in particular, not just W3C people. ←

16:43:29 <antoine> @annette ok I get it

Antoine Isaac: @annette ok I get it ←

16:43:36 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

16:44:08 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> If I got his point correctly, that is what I was saying. If there is something which we judge to be a BP, we should give people a way to state how they comply to that. Just to clarify my previous example: IF we say, people should use a Standard Vocabularity. We should have a dimension for them to rank how they comply to this

Giancarlo Guizzardi: If I got his point correctly, that is what I was saying. If there is something which we judge to be a BP, we should give people a way to state how they comply to that. Just to clarify my previous example: IF we say, people should use a Standard Vocabularity. We should have a dimension for them to rank how they comply to this ←

16:44:10 <annette_g> dogfood, man

Annette Greiner: dogfood, man ←

16:44:26 <ericstephan> lol annette_g sick em :-)

lol annette_g sick em :-) ←

16:45:12 <antoine> q?

Antoine Isaac: q? ←

16:45:15 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: what proposals should be introduced?  annette_g , antoine Makx_Dekkers ?

Deirdre Lee: what proposals should be introduced? annette_g , antoine Makx_Dekkers ? ←

16:45:26 <annette_g> PROPOSED: that we do a survey to find out what the barriers to data reuse are

PROPOSED: that we do a survey to find out what the barriers to data reuse are ←

16:45:50 <Ig_Bittencourt> giancarlo_guizzardi_: I agree with what you are saying, but I believe that most of the BP is related to Data Usage Vocabulary in spite of Data Quality Vocab. Another point is that if we do not follow a conceptual framework, it will quite hard to go through this vocab and provide an interesting one.

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I agree with what you are saying, but I believe that most of the BP is related to Data Usage Vocabulary in spite of Data Quality Vocab. Another point is that if we do not follow a conceptual framework, it will quite hard to go through this vocab and provide an interesting one. [ Scribe Assist by Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto ] ←

16:46:09 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

16:46:29 <Makx_Dekkers> PRPOSED: ask use case authors to sy whihc aspects of quality they want to see expressed and how

PROPOSED: ask use case authors to say which aspects of quality they want to see expressed and how ←

16:46:33 <ericstephan> annette_g: ask anyone who considers themselves a user of data on the web?  from a data quality point of view?

Annette Greiner: ask anyone who considers themselves a user of data on the web? from a data quality point of view? ←

16:47:17 <riccardoAlbertoni> s/PRPOSED/PROPOSED

16:47:22 <antoine> I think Annette's suggestion is excellent. But I'm afraid of the resources it would consume to make a success

Antoine Isaac: I think Annette's suggestion is excellent. But I'm afraid of the resources it would consume to make it a success ←

16:47:32 <antoine> s/make a/make it a

16:47:33 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: that we do a survey to find out what the barriers to data reuse are

PROPOSED: that we do a survey to find out what the barriers to data reuse are ←

16:47:48 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> I am fine with using a conceptual framework, of course. However, we might need to adapt existing ones to deal with Datasets on the web. This seems to me a systematic way to find obvious omissions. My example of "how authoritative/standard" a vocabulary is came to mind as an omission without effort

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I am fine with using a conceptual framework, of course. However, we might need to adapt existing ones to deal with Datasets on the web. This seems to me a systematic way to find obvious omissions. My example of "how authoritative/standard" a vocabulary is came to mind as an omission without effort ←

16:47:50 <deirdrelee> -1

Deirdre Lee: -1 ←

16:48:02 <phila> -1 - it's what the W3C process does

Phil Archer: -1 - it's what the W3C process does ←

16:48:07 <ericstephan> -1

-1 ←

16:48:14 <laufer> s/sy whihc/say which/

16:48:18 <antoine> +0 if someone volunteers I think it's ok

Antoine Isaac: +0 if someone volunteers I think it's ok ←

16:48:43 <Makx_Dekkers> -1

Makx Dekkers: -1 ←

16:48:56 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: in this stage, this might take too many resources and would delay the work very much..

Deirdre Lee: in this stage, this might take too many resources and would delay the work very much.. ←

16:49:09 <phila> Draft proposal: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions.

Phil Archer: Draft proposal: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions. ←

16:49:13 <ericstephan> q+

q+ ←

16:49:16 <ericstephan> q-

q- ←

16:49:32 <phila> (so Annette says I'm not against what she's saying, just the method)

Phil Archer: (so Annette says I'm not against what she's saying, just the method) ←

16:49:32 <deirdrelee> PRPOSED: ask use case authors to sy whihc aspects of quality they want to see expressed and how

Scribe problem: the name 'PRPOSED' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adriano Veloso Adriano Pereira Amy Guy Ana Salgado Annette Greiner Antoine Isaac Bart van Leeuwen Bernadette Farias Loscio Carlos Iglesias Carlos Tejo Carlos Laufer Caroline Burle Christophe Gueret Daniel Schwabe Deirdre Lee Elie SLOÏM Eric Kauz Eric Stephan Erik Mannens Flavio Yanai Ghislain Atemezing Giancarlo Guizzardi Gisele Pappa Gustavo Suárez Volpe Hadley Beeman Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Ingo Simonis Jeremy Debattista Joao Almeida Kangchan Lee Kiev Santos da Gama Lewis Mcgibbney Makx Dekkers Manuel Carrasco Benitez Mark Harrison Martín Álvarez Michel Dumontier Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício Phil Archer Raphaël Troncy Riccardo Albertoni Seiji Isotani Silvia Da Rosa Steven Adler Sumit Purohit Vagner Diniz Vinh Nguyen Wagner Meira Jr. William Mischo William Smith Yaso Córdova victoria koster Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown PRPOSED: ask use case authors to sy whihc aspects of quality they want to see expressed and how [ Scribe Assist by Deirdre Lee ] ←

16:49:33 <BernadetteLoscio> q-

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q- ←

16:49:51 <deirdrelee> 0

Deirdre Lee: 0 ←

16:50:07 <Ig_Bittencourt> agree with phila's way of thinking.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: agree with phila's way of thinking. ←

16:50:34 <ericstephan> PROPOSED: ask use case authors to say which aspects of quality they want to see expressed and how

PROPOSED: ask use case authors to say which aspects of quality they want to see expressed and how ←

16:50:54 <deirdrelee> Draft PRPOSED: ask use case authors to sy which aspects of quality, from list of 12 criteria above they want to see expressed and how

Deirdre Lee: Draft PRPOSED: ask use case authors to sy which aspects of quality, from list of 12 criteria above they want to see expressed and how ←

16:50:55 <annette_g> does writing a use case qualify someone in particular to speak for data consumers?

Annette Greiner: does writing a use case qualify someone in particular to speak for data consumers? ←

16:51:19 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

16:51:26 <annette_g> -1

Annette Greiner: -1 ←

16:51:34 <phila> +0

Phil Archer: +0 ←

16:51:36 <ericstephan> 0

0 ←

16:51:56 <laufer> -101+

Carlos Laufer: -101+ ←

16:52:46 <ericstephan> DRAFT PROPOSED: ask use case authors what type of feedback they want from data consumers?

DRAFT PROPOSED: ask use case authors what type of feedback they want from data consumers? ←

16:52:50 <antoine> I would expect use case owners to have good knowledge of the applications, no?

Antoine Isaac: I would expect use case owners to have good knowledge of the applications, no? ←

16:53:12 <laufer> one question: when we ask what criteria of quality one consumer whant to see, he will answer completeness or the number of interviewed people?

Carlos Laufer: one question: when we ask what criteria of quality one consumer whant to see, he will answer completeness or the number of interviewed people? ←

16:53:24 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

16:53:28 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee

Deirdre Lee: ack deirdrelee ←

16:54:20 <annette_g> like asking Microsoft to provide feedback on usability?

Annette Greiner: like asking Microsoft to provide feedback on usability? ←

16:54:28 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

16:54:41 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

16:54:50 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

16:54:56 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

16:55:17 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

16:55:17 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about evidence we already have available

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to talk about evidence we already have available ←

16:55:28 <ericstephan> annette_g: trying to find ways to do this, I'm am just worried that going back to the group for the same thing isn't going to do that.

Annette Greiner: trying to find ways to do this, I'm am just worried that going back to the group for the same thing isn't going to do that. ←

16:55:32 <phila> PROPOSED: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions and perhaps highlighting ones that didn't make the cut.

PROPOSED: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions and perhaps highlighting ones that didn't make the cut. ←

16:55:47 <BernadetteLoscio> q-

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q- ←

16:56:21 <phila> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Apr/0023.html Makx's mail

Phil Archer: -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Apr/0023.html Makx's mail ←

16:56:26 <ericstephan> phila: we have a starting point as noted in my proposal

Phil Archer: we have a starting point as noted in my proposal ←

16:56:43 <Ig_Bittencourt> q- (because I agree with phil's proposal).

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q- (because I agree with phil's proposal). ←

16:56:48 <Ig_Bittencourt> q-

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q- ←

16:56:54 <ericstephan> phila: Makx_Dekkers proposed the list and got some feedback, so we have a sense of a review.

Phil Archer: Makx_Dekkers proposed the list and got some feedback, so we have a sense of a review. ←

16:56:56 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to phila

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to phila ←

16:57:25 <ericstephan> phila: if we take that list and put it in a doc that can be reviewed as a draft recommendation, we can ask, did we get this right?

Phil Archer: if we take that list and put it in a doc that can be reviewed as a draft recommendation, we can ask, did we get this right? ←

16:58:04 <ericstephan> phila: we aren't starting from nothing, Makx_Dekkers list is a good starting point, the best way is to get something out in a draft for public review

Phil Archer: we aren't starting from nothing, Makx_Dekkers list is a good starting point, the best way is to get something out in a draft for public review ←

16:58:19 <phila> PROPOSED: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions and perhaps highlighting ones that didn't make the cut.

16:58:25 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 ( It seems a very pragmatical way to go )

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ( It seems a very pragmatical way to go ) ←

16:58:27 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> +1

Giancarlo Guizzardi: +1 ←

16:58:27 <ericstephan> +1 for getting public feedback asap

+1 for getting public feedback asap ←

16:58:29 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

16:58:31 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

16:58:32 <Gisele> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

16:58:32 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

16:58:36 <antoine> +1

Antoine Isaac: +1 ←

16:58:40 <annette_g> +1 ~

Annette Greiner: +1 ~ ←

16:58:50 <Makx_Dekkers> +1

Makx Dekkers: +1 ←

16:58:50 <flavio> _q

Flavio Yanai: _q ←

16:58:51 <ericstephan> does ~ mean ish?

does ~ mean ish? ←

16:58:51 <deirdrelee> ack me

Deirdre Lee: ack me ←

16:58:53 <flavio> +1

Flavio Yanai: +1 ←

16:58:53 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

16:58:58 <annette_g> yes, ish

Annette Greiner: yes, ish ←

16:59:06 <Makx_Dekkers> Also see rough notes of Share-PSI session https://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/wiki/Timisoara/Scribe#Tuesday_17th_March_.2811:30_-_12:40_Parallel_Sessions_B.29

Makx Dekkers: Also see rough notes of Share-PSI session https://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/wiki/Timisoara/Scribe#Tuesday_17th_March_.2811:30_-_12:40_Parallel_Sessions_B.29 ←

16:59:11 <phila> RESOLVED: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions and perhaps highlighting ones that didn't make the cut.

RESOLVED: We will review the Open Data Support list of dimensions in the light of the use cases that we have and Makx's Share-PSI session, looking for any obvious omissions or unnecessary dimensions. Publish a draft ASAP and seek review, asking specifically whether we have the right dimensions and perhaps highlighting ones that didn't make the cut. ←

16:59:16 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

16:59:18 <phila> q?

Phil Archer: q? ←

16:59:22 <ericstephan> high noon in the heart of Texas

high noon in the heart of Texas ←

16:59:25 <laufer> aftre the approval

Carlos Laufer: aftre the approval ←

16:59:41 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

16:59:44 <ericstephan> deirdrelee: antoine what say you?

Deirdre Lee: antoine what say you? ←

16:59:49 <Ig_Bittencourt> s\aftre\after

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: s\aftre\after ←

16:59:53 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minutes#', phila.  Try /msg RRSAgent help

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minutes#', phila. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←

16:59:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila ←

17:00:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

17:00:04 <ericstephan> antoine: it seems like a good approach

Antoine Isaac: it seems like a good approach ←

17:00:22 <antoine> may I ask Makx to be co-actor on this?

Antoine Isaac: may I ask Makx to be co-actor on this? ←

17:00:29 <ericstephan> ACTION: antoine to follow up on resolution that Phil proposed

ACTION: antoine to follow up on resolution that Phil proposed ←

17:00:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - Follow up on resolution that phil proposed [on Antoine Isaac - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-151 - Follow up on resolution that phil proposed [on Antoine Isaac - due 2015-04-20]. ←

17:00:39 <phila> action: antoine to follow up on the resolution re starting with the ODS list, Makx's list etc, working towards FPWD ASAP

ACTION: antoine to follow up on the resolution re starting with the ODS list, Makx's list etc, working towards FPWD ASAP ←

17:00:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-152 - Follow up on the resolution re starting with the ods list, makx's list etc, working towards fpwd asap [on Antoine Isaac - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-152 - Follow up on the resolution re starting with the ods list, makx's list etc, working towards fpwd asap [on Antoine Isaac - due 2015-04-20]. ←

17:00:46 <ericstephan> did I screw that up phila?

did I screw that up phila? ←

17:01:01 <phila> close action-151

Phil Archer: close ACTION-151 ←

17:01:02 <trackbot> Closed action-151.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-151. ←

17:01:02 <Makx_Dekkers> antoine, afraid that I can't commit myself

Makx Dekkers: antoine, afraid that I can't commit myself ←

17:01:08 <ericstephan> thank you

thank you ←

17:01:14 <Makx_Dekkers> already overloaded

Makx Dekkers: already overloaded ←

17:02:11 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers ←

17:02:30 <Zakim> -antoine

Zakim IRC Bot: -antoine ←

17:02:34 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> see u in 40'-ish

Giancarlo Guizzardi: see u in 40'-ish ←

17:02:42 <Ig_Bittencourt> Thanks.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Thanks. ←

17:02:47 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> thanks

Giancarlo Guizzardi: thanks ←

17:02:48 <Zakim> -Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ipswich ←

17:02:49 <antoine> Bye everyone, thanks for the great discussion, and enjoy the rest of the meeting!

Antoine Isaac: Bye everyone, thanks for the great discussion, and enjoy the rest of the meeting! ←

17:02:57 <antoine> I wish I could be with you F2F

Antoine Isaac: I wish I could be with you F2F ←

17:03:04 <deirdrelee> Thanks Antoine!

Deirdre Lee: Thanks Antoine! ←

17:03:16 <deirdrelee> Talk to you later

Deirdre Lee: Talk to you later ←

17:03:42 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

17:06:29 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a] ←

17:06:30 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()8:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()8:00AM has ended ←

17:06:30 <Zakim> Attendees were deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni, phila, antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, ericstephan, austincomputer, [IPcaller], annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were deirdrelee, RiccardoAlbertoni, phila, antoine, HadleyBeeman, Makx_Dekkers, ericstephan, austincomputer, [IPcaller], annette_g, laufer, Ig_Bittencourt, flavio, ←

17:06:30 <Zakim> ... newton, yaso, Gisele, Sumit, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, +31.20.420.aaaa, Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: ... newton, yaso, Gisele, Sumit, BernadetteLoscio, SumitPurohit, +31.20.420.aaaa, Ipswich ←

17:09:09 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Phil Archer: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

17:09:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila ←

17:09:49 <phila> zakim, list particiapnts

Phil Archer: zakim, list particiapnts ←

17:09:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'list particiapnts', phila

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'list particiapnts', phila ←

17:09:56 <phila> zakim, list participants

Phil Archer: zakim, list participants ←

17:09:56 <Zakim> sorry, phila, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, phila, I don't know what conference this is ←

17:47:06 <phila> zakim, this is dwbp

(No events recorded for 37 minutes)

Phil Archer: zakim, this is dwbp ←

17:47:06 <Zakim> phila, I see DATA_DWBP()8:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be dwbp".

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, I see DATA_DWBP()8:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be dwbp". ←

17:47:14 <phila> zakim, this will be dwbp

Phil Archer: zakim, this will be dwbp ←

17:47:14 <Zakim> ok, phila; I see DATA_DWBP()8:00AM scheduled to start 347 minutes ago

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila; I see DATA_DWBP()8:00AM scheduled to start 347 minutes ago ←

17:47:34 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()8:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()8:00AM has now started ←

17:47:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

17:47:52 <phila> zakim, [ is Ipswich

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Ipswich ←

17:47:52 <Zakim> +Ipswich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ipswich; got it ←

17:58:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

(No events recorded for 10 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

17:58:42 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

18:14:13 <deirdrelee> google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema

(No events recorded for 15 minutes)

Deirdre Lee: google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema ←

18:14:37 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

18:14:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich ←

18:14:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

18:15:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

18:16:05 <phila> zakim, [ is Makx_Dekkers

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Makx_Dekkers ←

18:16:05 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers; got it ←

18:16:22 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers ←

18:17:59 <Makx_Dekkers> no that's not me

Makx Dekkers: no that's not me ←

18:19:28 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←

18:19:45 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim p1 is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim p1 is me ←

18:20:03 <Zakim> -??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P1 ←

18:20:15 <phila> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←

18:20:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich ←

18:20:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

18:20:47 <phila> zakim, Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila

Phil Archer: zakim, Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila ←

18:20:47 <Zakim> +deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila; got it ←

18:21:18 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←

18:21:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

18:21:44 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim, p1 is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, p1 is me ←

18:21:44 <Zakim> sorry, Makx_Dekkers, I do not recognize a party named 'p1'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Makx_Dekkers, I do not recognize a party named 'p1' ←

18:21:58 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim, ??p1 is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, ??p1 is me ←

18:21:58 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers; got it ←

18:24:58 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> The sound quality here is very bad

Giancarlo Guizzardi: The sound quality here is very bad ←

18:25:03 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> can't understand anything right now

Giancarlo Guizzardi: can't understand anything right now ←

18:25:34 <Makx_Dekkers> i cant understand a word that is said

Makx Dekkers: i cant understand a word that is said ←

18:26:00 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

18:26:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, [IPcaller] ←

18:26:02 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila ←

18:26:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

18:26:12 <Makx_Dekkers> has the meeting started yet?

Makx Dekkers: has the meeting started yet? ←

18:26:26 <Makx_Dekkers> yes

Makx Dekkers: yes ←

18:26:52 <deirdrelee> zakim, [ is giancarlo_guizzardi_

Deirdre Lee: zakim, [ is giancarlo_guizzardi_ ←

18:26:52 <Zakim> +giancarlo_guizzardi_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +giancarlo_guizzardi_; got it ←

18:33:00 <deirdrelee> google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Deirdre Lee: google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema ←

18:33:10 <deirdrelee> Welcome back Austin!

Deirdre Lee: Welcome back Austin! ←

18:33:16 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

18:33:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi_

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi_ ←

18:33:18 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila ←

18:33:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see annette_g, yaso, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see annette_g, yaso, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

18:37:56 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

18:37:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi_

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi_ ←

18:37:58 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila ←

18:37:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

18:38:29 <deirdrelee> yaso, where is everyone??

Deirdre Lee: yaso, where is everyone?? ←

18:38:37 <deirdrelee> We're nearly ready for bed ;)

Deirdre Lee: We're nearly ready for bed ;) ←

18:38:53 <annette_g> us, too

Annette Greiner: us, too ←

18:39:08 <phila> :-) annette_g

Phil Archer: :-) annette_g ←

18:39:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

18:40:02 <deirdrelee> google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema

Deirdre Lee: google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema ←

18:40:14 <phila> zakim, [ is Austin

Phil Archer: zakim, [ is Austin ←

18:40:14 <Zakim> +Austin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Austin; got it ←

18:40:27 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

18:40:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Austin

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, Makx_Dekkers, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Austin ←

18:40:29 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila ←

18:40:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see riccardoAlbertoni, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see riccardoAlbertoni, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, giancarlo_guizzardi_, Makx_Dekkers, phila, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

18:40:59 <phila> zakim, Austin has ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: zakim, Austin has ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio ←

18:40:59 <Zakim> +ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio; got it ←

18:41:26 <ericstephan> the quality of my credit card usage was called into question when I purchased our external speaker at 1am in the Austin Airport from an electronics vending machine.

the quality of my credit card usage was called into question when I purchased our external speaker at 1am in the Austin Airport from an electronics vending machine. ←

18:42:06 <phila> deirdrelee: Re-Starts the meeting

Deirdre Lee: Re-Starts the meeting [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:42:11 <phila> Topic: Quality issues

4. Quality issues

18:42:46 <deirdrelee> zakim, pick a victim

Deirdre Lee: zakim, pick a victim ←

18:42:46 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BernadetteLoscio

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose BernadetteLoscio ←

18:43:03 <phila> scribe: BernadetteLoscio

(Scribe set to Bernadette Farias Loscio)

18:43:13 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Phil Archer: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

18:43:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila ←

18:44:04 <phila> issue-116?

Phil Archer: ISSUE-116? ←

18:44:04 <trackbot> issue-116 -- Best Practices for Data Quality - Insertion of specific strategies apart from DATA QUALITY Vocabulary -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-116 -- Best Practices for Data Quality - Insertion of specific strategies apart from DATA QUALITY Vocabulary -- open ←

18:44:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/116

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/116 ←

18:44:16 <phila> issue-117?

Phil Archer: ISSUE-117? ←

18:44:16 <trackbot> issue-117 -- Should Data quality vocabulary be mentioned as specific strategy in BP Document? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-117 -- Should Data quality vocabulary be mentioned as specific strategy in BP Document? -- open ←

18:44:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/117

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/117 ←

18:44:52 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> really bad audio

Giancarlo Guizzardi: really bad audio ←

18:44:53 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni: At the time we drafted the doc, my concern was that we didn't get much input

Riccardo Albertoni: At the time we drafted the doc, my concern was that we didn't get much input [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:45:01 <deirdrelee> BP Doc: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideDataQuality

Deirdre Lee: BP Doc: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#ProvideDataQuality ←

18:45:21 <BernadetteLoscio> i'm sorry... i cant understand

i'm sorry... i cant understand ←

18:46:06 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> me neither

Giancarlo Guizzardi: me neither ←

18:46:10 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni: We shouod mention for sure that we are going to develop a vocab to hekp documetn quality and that should be clearly stated

Riccardo Albertoni: We shouod mention for sure that we are going to develop a vocab to hekp documetn quality and that should be clearly stated [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:46:12 <annette_g> me neither

Annette Greiner: me neither ←

18:46:32 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni: My concern/question was, is there any obecjtion to the proposal that...

Riccardo Albertoni: My concern/question was, is there any obecjtion to the proposal that... [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:46:36 <yaso> in Austin it is hard to hear

Yaso Córdova: in Austin it is hard to hear ←

18:46:42 <ericstephan> could the proposal be written?

Eric Stephan: could the proposal be written? ←

18:46:51 <phila> ... that we explicitly mention in the BP doc that there will be advice/vocab on quality description

Phil Archer: ... that we explicitly mention in the BP doc that there will be advice/vocab on quality description ←

18:46:52 <Ig_Bittencourt> s\hekp\help

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: s\hekp\help ←

18:47:07 <Ig_Bittencourt> s\documetn\document

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: s\documetn\document ←

18:47:27 <phila> PROPOSED: That the data quality work is explicitly mentioned in the data Quality section of the BP document

PROPOSED: That the data quality work is explicitly mentioned in the data Quality section of the BP document ←

18:47:32 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

18:47:34 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

18:47:35 <phila> +1

Phil Archer: +1 ←

18:47:37 <GiselePappa> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

18:47:39 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

+1 ←

18:47:41 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> +1

Giancarlo Guizzardi: +1 ←

18:47:43 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

q+ ←

18:47:44 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

18:47:44 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

18:47:44 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

18:47:46 <Ig_Bittencourt> 0 I lost the discussion

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: 0 I lost the discussion ←

18:47:56 <phila> RESOLVED: That the data quality work is explicitly mentioned in the data Quality section of the BP document

RESOLVED: That the data quality work is explicitly mentioned in the data Quality section of the BP document ←

18:48:01 <phila> close 116

Phil Archer: close 116 ←

18:48:07 <phila> close issue-116

Phil Archer: close ISSUE-116 ←

18:48:07 <trackbot> Closed issue-116.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-116. ←

18:48:11 <phila> close issue-117

Phil Archer: close ISSUE-117 ←

18:48:11 <trackbot> Closed issue-117.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-117. ←

18:48:13 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

18:48:23 <phila> ack BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

18:48:23 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

18:48:44 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

18:49:03 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: Someone said that we shouldn't mention the quality work in the BP doc...

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Someone said that we shouldn't mention the quality work in the BP doc... [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:49:11 <phila> deirdrelee: Can you recall who made the comment?

Deirdre Lee: Can you recall who made the comment? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:49:43 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: Might have been Carlos I?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Might have been Carlos I? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:49:46 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

18:50:04 <BernadetteLoscio> Annette: We should have a reference to the vocabulary in the document

Annette Greiner: We should have a reference to the vocabulary in the document ←

18:50:47 <phila> annette_g: What I voted yes to was having a reference to the vocabulary doc from the BP doc

Annette Greiner: What I voted yes to was having a reference to the vocabulary doc from the BP doc [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

18:50:58 <phila> ... what I would oppose would be having BPs in the vocab document

Phil Archer: ... what I would oppose would be having BPs in the vocab document ←

18:51:01 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

18:51:36 <annette_g> * yes, Phil

Annette Greiner: * yes, Phil ←

18:52:43 <yaso> Scribe: yaso

(Scribe set to Yaso Córdova)

18:52:51 <BernadetteLoscio> thanks yaso ;)

Bernadette Farias Loscio: thanks yaso ;) ←

18:53:00 <yaso> deirdre: issue n.55

Deirdre Lee: issue n.55 ←

18:53:03 <deirdrelee> Issue-55?

Deirdre Lee: ISSUE-55? ←

18:53:03 <trackbot> Issue-55 -- The word "granularity" can been many things. scope, city/state/country, data aggregation -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-55 -- The word "granularity" can been many things. scope, city/state/country, data aggregation -- open ←

18:53:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/55

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/55 ←

18:53:23 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

18:53:29 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

18:54:00 <Zakim> -giancarlo_guizzardi_

Zakim IRC Bot: -giancarlo_guizzardi_ ←

18:54:17 <yaso> deirdre: Is it something that we want to include, or we can forget about it and go ahed

Deirdre Lee: Is it something that we want to include, or we can forget about it and go ahed ←

18:54:27 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

18:54:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

18:54:37 <yaso> Berna: It is not clear what type of granularity we are talking about.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: It is not clear what type of granularity we are talking about. ←

18:55:00 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

18:55:18 <yaso> ... In the doc we identified some types of granularity. For example, we can talk about different levels of granularity

... In the doc we identified some types of granularity. For example, we can talk about different levels of granularity ←

18:55:29 <yaso> yes, thanks, Phila

yes, thanks, Phila ←

18:55:50 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

18:56:00 <yaso> ... if we are going to consider this in the document, because we had a section about it, but it was removed because it was empty

... if we are going to consider this in the document, because we had a section about it, but it was removed because it was empty ←

18:56:16 <yaso> laufer: this issue is about the word?

Carlos Laufer: this issue is about the word? ←

18:56:34 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: we need to define what is granularity for us, for the group.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we need to define what is granularity for us, for the group. ←

18:56:50 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers ←

18:57:02 <yaso> ... this issue was opened due the last F2F. We removed because we had nothing written.

... this issue was opened due the last F2F. We removed because we had nothing written. ←

18:57:11 <yaso> q?

q? ←

18:57:21 <phila> draft proposal - that we effectively ignore the word 'granularity' and just talk about data quality

Phil Archer: draft proposal - that we effectively ignore the word 'granularity' and just talk about data quality ←

18:58:09 <deirdrelee> google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema

Deirdre Lee: google hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gu2q3xlnxb4p6sjowowzowteema ←

18:58:16 <ericstephan> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g4vna23i4mz4l6doovo34sysm4a

Eric Stephan: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g4vna23i4mz4l6doovo34sysm4a ←

18:58:17 <Ig_Bittencourt> q-

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q- ←

18:58:19 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

19:01:03 <phila> ack BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

19:01:04 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee

Deirdre Lee: ack deirdrelee ←

19:01:04 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

19:01:08 <yaso> had to get out, computer was freezing. Sorry

had to get out, computer was freezing. Sorry ←

19:01:19 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: should we talk about this in the BP document?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: should we talk about this in the BP document? ←

19:01:44 <yaso> ... this issue es related to the BP document, but also related to the DQ vocabulary

... this issue es related to the BP document, but also related to the DQ vocabulary ←

19:01:54 <phila> ack ericstephan

Phil Archer: ack ericstephan ←

19:02:12 <phila> q+

Phil Archer: q+ ←

19:02:19 <yaso> ericstephan: this is just a draft, if we leave it now, and then add it when it becomes clear

Eric Stephan: this is just a draft, if we leave it now, and then add it when it becomes clear ←

19:02:25 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

19:02:52 <annette_g> +1 to eric

Annette Greiner: +1 to eric ←

19:03:03 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

19:03:05 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: we should keep it like this

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we should keep it like this ←

19:03:21 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

19:03:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, Austin, [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, Austin, [IPcaller] ←

19:03:23 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila ←

19:03:23 <Zakim> Austin has ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio

Zakim IRC Bot: Austin has ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio ←

19:03:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi, Ig_Bittencourt, SumitPurohit, laufer, GiselePappa, BernadetteLoscio, riccardoAlbertoni, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, phila,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see giancarlo_guizzardi, Ig_Bittencourt, SumitPurohit, laufer, GiselePappa, BernadetteLoscio, riccardoAlbertoni, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, phila, ←

19:03:24 <Zakim> ... deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

19:03:56 <giancarlo_guizzardi> yes

Giancarlo Guizzardi: yes ←

19:04:04 <giancarlo_guizzardi> I called via skype

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I called via skype ←

19:04:06 <ericstephan> I don't see it as being useless, its just not really clear about how we articulate it

Eric Stephan: I don't see it as being useless, its just not really clear about how we articulate it ←

19:04:06 <deirdrelee> zakim, [ is giancarlo_guizzardi

Deirdre Lee: zakim, [ is giancarlo_guizzardi ←

19:04:07 <Zakim> +giancarlo_guizzardi; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +giancarlo_guizzardi; got it ←

19:04:30 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

19:04:32 <phila> ack deirdrelee

Phil Archer: ack deirdrelee ←

19:04:38 <giancarlo_guizzardi> my connection is not very stable so I have to reconnect frequently

Giancarlo Guizzardi: my connection is not very stable so I have to reconnect frequently ←

19:04:53 <phila> PROPOSED: That we put the word 'granularity' on ice until and unless we need it

PROPOSED: That we put the word 'granularity' on ice until and unless we need it ←

19:04:58 <yaso> Thanks, phila

Thanks, phila ←

19:05:08 <yaso> +1

+1 ←

19:05:14 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

19:05:15 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

19:05:17 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

19:05:17 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

19:05:18 <ericstephan> +1 ice cubes, blocks whatever granularity you want

Eric Stephan: +1 ice cubes, blocks whatever granularity you want ←

19:05:22 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

19:05:23 <phila> +1

Phil Archer: +1 ←

19:05:26 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

19:05:27 <GiselePappa> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

19:05:34 <phila> RESOLVED: That we put the word 'granularity' on ice until and unless we need it

RESOLVED: That we put the word 'granularity' on ice until and unless we need it ←

19:05:40 <phila> close issue-55

Phil Archer: close ISSUE-55 ←

19:05:40 <trackbot> Closed issue-55.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-55. ←

19:05:44 <phila> issue-64?

Phil Archer: ISSUE-64? ←

19:05:44 <trackbot> issue-64 -- Jeremy t's expression of concern over 'data must be complete' - not realistic. better to say where it isn't complete -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-64 -- Jeremy t's expression of concern over 'data must be complete' - not realistic. better to say where it isn't complete -- open ←

19:05:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/64

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/64 ←

19:05:58 <yaso> deirdre: this is about completeness

Deirdre Lee: this is about completeness ←

19:06:11 <phila> (Jeremy T is Jeremy Tandy from the UK Met Office who joined us at TPAC)

Phil Archer: (Jeremy T is Jeremy Tandy from the UK Met Office who joined us at TPAC) ←

19:06:30 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

19:07:01 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

19:07:07 <yaso> SumitPurohit: doo we think that granularity can be related to quality in some way?

Sumit Purohit: doo we think that granularity can be related to quality in some way? ←

19:07:30 <deirdrelee> ack SumitPurohit

Deirdre Lee: ack SumitPurohit ←

19:07:37 <yaso> ericstephan: I think I remember when Jeremy mentioned this

Eric Stephan: I think I remember when Jeremy mentioned this ←

19:07:58 <yaso> ... Phil had introduced the idea of how do we measure the BPs

... Phil had introduced the idea of how do we measure the BPs ←

19:08:14 <yaso> ... I thinkin all the data quality points that we were talking today

... I thin in all the data quality points that we were talking today ←

19:08:31 <yaso> s/thinkin/thin in

19:08:44 <yaso> s/thinkin/think in

19:08:54 <ericstephan> I like that idea deirdrelee

Eric Stephan: I like that idea deirdrelee ←

19:09:01 <deirdrelee> ack ericstephan

Deirdre Lee: ack ericstephan ←

19:10:19 <riccardoAlbertoni> q+

Riccardo Albertoni: q+ ←

19:10:31 <deirdrelee> ack riccardoAlbertoni

Deirdre Lee: ack riccardoAlbertoni ←

19:10:40 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni: I think the discussion about granularity should be addressed at the level of BPs

Riccardo Albertoni: I think the discussion about granularity should be addressed at the level of BPs [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

19:10:43 <yaso> can't und :-/erstand

can't und :-/erstand ←

19:10:56 <phila> ... It's not related to quality, it's the way you;re going to provide your data

Phil Archer: ... It's not related to quality, it's the way you;re going to provide your data ←

19:11:02 <phila> ... that's best practice, not quality

Phil Archer: ... that's best practice, not quality ←

19:11:25 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←

19:11:37 <phila> Everyone says they don't want it, BP or quality vocab

Phil Archer: Everyone says they don't want it, BP or quality vocab ←

19:11:41 <Makx_Dekkers> zakim, ??p15 is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, ??p15 is me ←

19:11:41 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers; got it ←

19:11:59 <yaso> deirdre: maybe we should not keep it

Deirdre Lee: maybe we should not keep it ←

19:12:01 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni: If the data quality editors don't want it and the BP editors don't want it then maybe we shouldn't keep it

Riccardo Albertoni: If the data quality editors don't want it and the BP editors don't want it then maybe we shouldn't keep it [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

19:12:31 <annette_g> is this about completeness or granularity?

Annette Greiner: is this about completeness or granularity? ←

19:12:48 <giancarlo_guizzardi> I have the same problem

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I have the same problem ←

19:12:51 <phila> We're talking about completeness I think...

Phil Archer: We're talking about completeness I think... ←

19:13:17 <giancarlo_guizzardi> As consequence, I am a bit confused as well what we are discussing about now. Completeness or granularity or something more general

Giancarlo Guizzardi: As consequence, I am a bit confused as well what we are discussing about now. Completeness or granularity or something more general ←

19:13:18 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Let data quality editors look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions

PROPOSED: Let data quality editors look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions ←

19:13:27 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

19:13:31 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

19:13:33 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

19:13:33 <phila> +1

Phil Archer: +1 ←

19:13:34 <yaso> +1

+1 ←

19:13:35 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

19:13:35 <GiselePappa> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

19:13:37 <newton> +1

Unknown newton: +1 ←

19:13:38 <GiselePappa> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

19:13:40 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

19:13:42 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

19:13:43 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

19:14:00 <giancarlo_guizzardi> +1

Giancarlo Guizzardi: +1 ←

19:14:19 <phila> RESOLVED: Let data quality editors look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions

RESOLVED: Let data quality editors look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions ←

19:14:26 <phila> close issue-64

Phil Archer: close ISSUE-64 ←

19:14:27 <trackbot> Closed issue-64.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-64. ←

19:14:41 <phila> action: antoine to look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions

ACTION: antoine to look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions ←

19:14:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-153 - Look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions [on Antoine Isaac - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-153 - Look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions [on Antoine Isaac - due 2015-04-20]. ←

19:14:52 <phila> Topic: Best Practices

5. Best Practices

19:15:19 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers ←

19:15:34 <deirdrelee> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aqkh8jJCyHn0GaPk3Xh277b5L1bQjfwDHukmWUTWryg/edit#gid=0

Deirdre Lee: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aqkh8jJCyHn0GaPk3Xh277b5L1bQjfwDHukmWUTWryg/edit#gid=0 ←

19:15:43 <yaso> q?

q? ←

19:15:54 <phila> Grrr Google Docs :-(

Phil Archer: Grrr Google Docs :-( ←

19:16:01 <yaso> because 54 is to solve tomorrow

because 54 is to solve tomorrow ←

19:16:19 <phila> Commente 3006 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3006?cid=3006

Phil Archer: Commente 3006 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3006?cid=3006 ←

19:16:45 <yaso> Someone wants to scribe? It is difficult to follow

Someone wants to scribe? It is difficult to follow ←

19:17:01 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: we had some discussion about this by email

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we had some discussion about this by email ←

19:17:23 <yaso> ... dan said that there is not a complete distinction about metadata and data

... dan said that there is not a complete distinction about metadata and data ←

19:17:33 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

19:17:37 <yaso> ... this is something that the group have to resolve

... this is something that the group have to resolve ←

19:17:50 <phila> q+ to argue for the sentence that DanBri suggests

Phil Archer: q+ to argue for the sentence that DanBri suggests ←

19:17:51 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

19:17:54 <yaso> ... we are going to keep this definition, that metadata is data about data

... we are going to keep this definition, that metadata is data about data ←

19:18:08 <yaso> ... or we are going to discuss another definition

... or we are going to discuss another definition ←

19:18:26 <yaso> ... we are going to keep this discussion or leave it as it is

... we are going to keep this discussion or leave it as it is ←

19:18:26 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

19:18:29 <yaso> annette_g:

Annette Greiner: ←

19:18:43 <yaso> annette_g: I like to suggest that we stick with our definition

Annette Greiner: I like to suggest that we stick with our definition ←

19:18:48 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

19:18:49 <yaso> q?

q? ←

19:18:55 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

19:18:55 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to argue for the sentence that DanBri suggests

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to argue for the sentence that DanBri suggests ←

19:19:20 <yaso> phila: In 2003 we drafted RDF spec

Phil Archer: In 2003 we drafted RDF spec ←

19:20:56 <ericstephan> draft proposal:  Dan is right, however we keep the informal standard metadata/data definition because it is more easily understood by the general open data community.

Eric Stephan: draft proposal: Dan is right, however we keep the informal standard metadata/data definition because it is more easily understood by the general open data community. ←

19:21:12 <yaso> q+

q+ ←

19:21:14 <giancarlo_guizzardi> q+

Giancarlo Guizzardi: q+ ←

19:21:43 <deirdrelee> ack ericstephan

Deirdre Lee: ack ericstephan ←

19:21:44 <phila> Draft proposal - that we include the sentence Dan suggests and then say that for this document we are using the simplified definition that metadata is data about data

Phil Archer: Draft proposal - that we include the sentence Dan suggests and then say that for this document we are using the simplified definition that metadata is data about data ←

19:21:56 <yaso> ericstephan: I'd rather go with that, that go with something too complex

Eric Stephan: I'd rather go with that, that go with something too complex ←

19:22:05 <yaso> ... the community can understand easily

... the community can understand easily ←

19:22:08 <phila> ack yaso

Phil Archer: ack yaso ←

19:22:16 <yaso> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Apr/0019.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Apr/0019.html ←

19:22:59 <newton> yaso: I think it's related to the Makz point sent on this e-mail; I think people will continue having discussions like this if we don't define in a clear way what metadata is

Yaso Córdova: I think it's related to the Makx point sent on this e-mail; I think people will continue having discussions like this if we don't define in a clear way what metadata is [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

19:23:25 <ericstephan> metadata is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak

Eric Stephan: metadata is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak ←

19:23:29 <phila> ack giancarlo_guizzardi

Phil Archer: ack giancarlo_guizzardi ←

19:24:07 <yaso> giancarlo_guizzardi: I think that the sentence can mean anything we want

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I think that the sentence can mean anything we want ←

19:24:16 <yaso> giancarlo_guizzardi: if we want to be more precise,

Giancarlo Guizzardi: if we want to be more precise, ←

19:24:28 <yaso> ... I think that this is intuitive,

... I think that this is intuitive, ←

19:24:43 <yaso> ... there is not a real distinction of what is metadata and data

... there is not a real distinction of what is metadata and data ←

19:24:52 <ericstephan> perhaps a more detailed explaination of data/metadata could be in the glossary?

Eric Stephan: perhaps a more detailed explaination of data/metadata could be in the glossary? ←

19:25:09 <annette_g> +1 to glossary for this

Annette Greiner: +1 to glossary for this ←

19:25:18 <yaso> ... I think if we want to make this more clear,

... I think if we want to make this more clear, ←

19:25:42 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

19:26:10 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to glossary for this too, showing the distinction.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to glossary for this too, showing the distinction. ←

19:26:15 <yaso> deirdre: should we leave the description of metadata as it is

Deirdre Lee: should we leave the description of metadata as it is ←

19:26:32 <yaso> ... or we add this to glossary?

... or we add this to glossary? ←

19:26:36 <yaso> q?

q? ←

19:26:36 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED:  that we include the sentence Dan suggests and then say that for this document we are using the simplified definition that metadata is data about data

PROPOSED: that we include the sentence Dan suggests and then say that for this document we are using the simplified definition that metadata is data about data ←

19:27:03 <ericstephan> -1 (see the glossary comments)

Eric Stephan: -1 (see the glossary comments) ←

19:27:07 <annette_g> +1 only if it's in the glossary

Annette Greiner: +1 only if it's in the glossary ←

19:27:12 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

19:27:17 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

19:27:36 <GiselePappa> +1, but it is not simplified, it is the standard

Gisele Pappa: +1, but it is not simplified, it is the standard ←

19:27:39 <laufer> -1

Carlos Laufer: -1 ←

19:27:50 <yaso> -1

-1 ←

19:27:57 <newton> +1 only if it's in the glossary

Unknown newton: +1 only if it's in the glossary ←

19:27:57 <giancarlo_guizzardi> +1 to including the definition in the glossary

Giancarlo Guizzardi: +1 to including the definition in the glossary ←

19:28:28 <phila> PROPOSED: to include the term metadata in the glossary and give a definition (TBD)

PROPOSED: to include the term metadata in the glossary and give a definition (TBD) ←

19:28:30 <deirdrelee> Current glossary: http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/blob/gh-pages/glossary.html

Deirdre Lee: Current glossary: http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/blob/gh-pages/glossary.html ←

19:28:35 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

19:28:45 <phila> ack Ig_Bittencourt

Phil Archer: ack Ig_Bittencourt ←

19:28:56 <yaso> Ig_Bittencourt: we should change the proposal

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: we should change the proposal ←

19:29:01 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

19:29:20 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

19:29:37 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: just to comment that at the tracker there is something else that we should remove from the document

Bernadette Farias Loscio: just to comment that at the tracker there is something else that we should remove from the document ←

19:29:52 <laufer> the prefix meta indicates that metadata is data... we do not have to clarify this...

Carlos Laufer: the prefix meta indicates that metadata is data... we do not have to clarify this... ←

19:30:02 <yaso> ... because it makes the things worse. So it is not that we are going to have a metadata doc separated

... because it makes the things worse. So it is not that we are going to have a metadata doc separated ←

19:30:08 <annette_g> +1 to Bernadette

Annette Greiner: +1 to Bernadette ←

19:30:13 <yaso> ... we should remove the sentence off the document

... we should remove the sentence off the document ←

19:30:26 <Ig_Bittencourt> PROPOSED: that we include an explanation (and Dan's comments) in the glossary and then say that for this document we are using the definition that metadata is data about data

PROPOSED: that we include an explanation (and Dan's comments) in the glossary and then say that for this document we are using the definition that metadata is data about data ←

19:30:32 <BernadetteLoscio> "A metadata document must be published together with the data"; taken together this makes the distinction seem more clear-cut than it often seems in practice.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: "A metadata document must be published together with the data"; taken together this makes the distinction seem more clear-cut than it often seems in practice. ←

19:30:37 <yaso> ... I just suggested to remove this phrase

... I just suggested to remove this phrase ←

19:30:44 <annette_g> +++++

Annette Greiner: +++++ ←

19:31:00 <laufer> I think the comment of Dan is about to confuse the reader

Carlos Laufer: I think the comment of Dan is about to confuse the reader ←

19:31:29 <laufer> we do not have to say that a metalanguage is a language...

Carlos Laufer: we do not have to say that a metalanguage is a language... ←

19:31:59 <laufer> a metaproperty is a property... and so on...

Carlos Laufer: a metaproperty is a property... and so on... ←

19:32:22 <annette_g> let's vote on Ig's

Annette Greiner: let's vote on Ig's ←

19:32:28 <phila> +1 to Ig's proposal

Phil Archer: +1 to Ig's proposal ←

19:32:38 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

19:32:41 <giancarlo_guizzardi> A metaproperty is a property but one about a property

Giancarlo Guizzardi: A metaproperty is a property but one about a property ←

19:32:42 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

19:32:43 <flavio> +1

Flavio Yanai: +1 ←

19:32:43 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

19:32:44 <giancarlo_guizzardi> not about individuals in the domain

Giancarlo Guizzardi: not about individuals in the domain ←

19:32:45 <GiselePappa> +1 to Ig's

Gisele Pappa: +1 to Ig's ←

19:32:46 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

19:32:46 <yaso> 0

0 ←

19:32:49 <giancarlo_guizzardi> that makes a lot of difference

Giancarlo Guizzardi: that makes a lot of difference ←

19:32:50 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

19:32:54 <laufer> -1

Carlos Laufer: -1 ←

19:33:06 <newton> 0

Unknown newton: 0 ←

19:34:00 <annette_g> did you go away?

Annette Greiner: did you go away? ←

19:34:13 <phila> deirdrelee: We're going to leave this comment for now - it will come up again tomorrow I'm sure

Deirdre Lee: We're going to leave this comment for now - it will come up again tomorrow I'm sure [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

19:34:32 <giancarlo_guizzardi> I am very confused right now...

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I am very confused right now... ←

19:36:09 <phila> Topic: Data Versioning

6. Data Versioning

19:36:23 <phila> issue-94?

Phil Archer: ISSUE-94? ←

19:36:23 <trackbot> issue-94 -- Dataset versioning and dataset replication -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-94 -- Dataset versioning and dataset replication -- open ←

19:36:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/94

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/94 ←

19:36:24 <yaso> issue 94

ISSUE-94 ←

19:36:59 <yaso> deirdre: we are following the agenda?

Deirdre Lee: we are following the agenda? ←

19:37:21 <giancarlo_guizzardi> The discussion between the relative notions of level and meta-level, from a logical point of view is IMHO very well addressed here: http://nemo.inf.ufes.br/mlt

Giancarlo Guizzardi: The discussion between the relative notions of level and meta-level, from a logical point of view is IMHO very well addressed here: http://nemo.inf.ufes.br/mlt ←

19:37:32 <phila> Moving on to Comment 3007 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3007?cid=3007

Phil Archer: Moving on to Comment 3007 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3007?cid=3007 ←

19:37:42 <phila> (we'll come back to issue-94)

Phil Archer: (we'll come back to ISSUE-94) ←

19:37:50 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

19:38:19 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

19:38:52 <yaso> annette_g: My understanding is that memento is for preserving documents, so I would mention this at the implementation section

Annette Greiner: My understanding is that memento is for preserving versions of documents, so I would mention this at the implementation section ←

19:38:55 <SumitPurohit> +1 anne

Sumit Purohit: +1 anne ←

19:38:58 <yaso> +1

+1 ←

19:39:07 <phila> -> http://mementoweb.org/about/ About Memento

Phil Archer: -> http://mementoweb.org/about/ About Memento ←

19:39:14 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to annette_g

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to annette_g ←

19:39:22 <annette_g> s/preserving/preserving versions of/

19:39:38 <yaso> thanks annette_g

thanks annette_g ←

19:39:47 <phila> q+ to talk about referencing Memento

Phil Archer: q+ to talk about referencing Memento ←

19:39:55 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

19:39:55 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about referencing Memento

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to talk about referencing Memento ←

19:40:08 <yaso> what annette_g is proposing is to mention memento at the implnementation sectio

what annette_g is proposing is to mention memento at the implementation section ←

19:40:24 <yaso> s/implnementation sectio/implementation section

19:40:49 <Zakim> -giancarlo_guizzardi

Zakim IRC Bot: -giancarlo_guizzardi ←

19:40:57 <annette_g> +1 to Phil

Annette Greiner: +1 to Phil ←

19:40:59 <yaso> phila: I would include it as a possible implementation

Phil Archer: I would include it as a possible implementation ←

19:41:04 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: We agree

Bernadette Farias Loscio: We agree ←

19:41:14 <phila> phila: I'm happy to refer to it as a possible approach but I wouldn't put it more stringly than that

Phil Archer: I'm happy to refer to it as a possible approach but I wouldn't put it more stringly than that [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

19:41:22 <yaso> laufer: I think that it is a general advise for all the BPS

Carlos Laufer: I think that it is a general advise for all the BPS ←

19:41:33 <yaso> ... for all the implementation approaches

... for all the implementation approaches ←

19:41:37 <Ig_Bittencourt> The name of the section in BP doc is "Possible Approach to Implementation"

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: The name of the section in BP doc is "Possible Approach to Implementation" ←

19:41:46 <Ig_Bittencourt> So it is OK to put there.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: So it is OK to put there. ←

19:41:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

19:42:00 <yaso> deirdre: we can create an action to include this at the possible implementation

Deirdre Lee: we can create an action to include this at the possible implementation ←

19:42:04 <yaso> Newton: I can do this

Scribe problem: the name 'Newton' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adriano Veloso Adriano Pereira Amy Guy Ana Salgado Annette Greiner Antoine Isaac Bart van Leeuwen Bernadette Farias Loscio Carlos Iglesias Carlos Tejo Carlos Laufer Caroline Burle Christophe Gueret Daniel Schwabe Deirdre Lee Elie SLOÏM Eric Kauz Eric Stephan Erik Mannens Flavio Yanai Ghislain Atemezing Giancarlo Guizzardi Gisele Pappa Gustavo Suárez Volpe Hadley Beeman Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Ingo Simonis Jeremy Debattista Joao Almeida Kangchan Lee Kiev Santos da Gama Lewis Mcgibbney Makx Dekkers Manuel Carrasco Benitez Mark Harrison Martín Álvarez Michel Dumontier Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício Phil Archer Raphaël Troncy Riccardo Albertoni Seiji Isotani Silvia Da Rosa Steven Adler Sumit Purohit Vagner Diniz Vinh Nguyen Wagner Meira Jr. William Mischo William Smith Yaso Córdova victoria koster Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Newton: I can do this ←

19:42:15 <ericstephan> suggested ammendment is there a simpler example that can also be shown?

Eric Stephan: suggested ammendment is there a simpler example that can also be shown? ←

19:42:17 <phila> PROPOSED: That we refer to Memento in the 'possible implementation' section of the relevent BP; resolve yes to the comment and action Newton to write to Herbert vS

PROPOSED: That we refer to Memento in the 'possible implementation' section of the relevent BP; resolve yes to the comment and action Newton to write to Herbert vS ←

19:42:27 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

19:42:28 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

19:42:29 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

19:42:31 <phila> +1

Phil Archer: +1 ←

19:42:33 <newton> +1

Unknown newton: +1 ←

19:42:34 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

19:42:34 <yaso> newton: Laufer and me worked together at the versioning section

Unknown newton: Annette and me worked together at the versioning section ←

19:42:38 <yaso> +1

+1 ←

19:42:39 <giancarlo_guizzardi_> +1

Giancarlo Guizzardi: +1 ←

19:42:44 <newton> s/Laufer/Annette

19:42:45 <ericstephan> +1 if we can have another simpler example that could also be shown

Eric Stephan: +1 if we can have another simpler example that could also be shown ←

19:42:48 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

19:42:57 <yaso> agree with ericstephan

agree with ericstephan ←

19:43:08 <yaso> "if we can have another simpler example that could also be shown"

"if we can have another simpler example that could also be shown" ←

19:43:11 <laufer> s/Laufer/Annette/

19:43:13 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

19:43:34 <Ig_Bittencourt> ericstephan: there are others indication in the BP 17 (Vocabulary versioning).

Eric Stephan: there are others indication in the BP 17 (Vocabulary versioning). [ Scribe Assist by Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto ] ←

19:43:39 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

19:43:46 <annette_g> +1 to have a second example

Annette Greiner: +1 to have a second example ←

19:44:03 <yaso> ericstephan:  I think it is great to have this example at the BP, but it can scare people, so we can have another example, simpler,

Eric Stephan: I think it is great to have this example at the BP, but it can scare people, so we can have another example, simpler, ←

19:44:04 <deirdrelee> ack ericstephan

Deirdre Lee: ack ericstephan ←

19:44:27 <yaso> ... to do not overwhelm anyone with a too much complex implementation approach

... to do not overwhelm anyone with a too much complex implementation approach ←

19:44:52 <phila> q+ to seek clarificiation

Phil Archer: q+ to seek clarificiation ←

19:44:55 <yaso> Ig_Bittencourt: there are 2 vocabularies that provide purpose to versioning numbers, so maybe it can solve this problem

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: there are 2 vocabularies that provide purpose to versioning numbers, so maybe it can solve this problem ←

19:45:36 <yaso> deirdre: I said that there are 2 examples in the BP-27, and maybe it sufficient to add the memento and it is ok

Deirdre Lee: I said that there are 2 examples in the BP-27, and maybe it sufficient to add the memento and it is ok ←

19:45:43 <phila> Are we looking at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies ?

Phil Archer: Are we looking at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies ? ←

19:45:46 <yaso> laufer: memento is more that that data versioning

Carlos Laufer: memento is more that that data versioning ←

19:45:56 <yaso> ... it is about data preservation also

... it is about data preservation also ←

19:46:23 <newton> Phil, Ig talks about this doc http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies

Unknown newton: Phil, Ig talks about this doc http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies ←

19:46:43 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

19:46:50 <deirdrelee> ack Ig_Bittencourt

Deirdre Lee: ack Ig_Bittencourt ←

19:46:56 <phila> q-

Phil Archer: q- ←

19:46:57 <Ig_Bittencourt> Vocabulary Versioning.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Vocabulary Versioning. ←

19:47:12 <deirdrelee> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies

Deirdre Lee: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies ←

19:47:25 <newton> are the same BP, only with different numbers...

Unknown newton: are the same BP, only with different numbers... ←

19:47:29 <Ig_Bittencourt> yes phila. This one http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: yes phila. This one http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies ←

19:47:37 <phila> Yes, we're looking at the same one. Excpet we have 15 differevnt versions of the doc and I no longer know which one I;m suppoed to be looking at!

Phil Archer: Yes, we're looking at the same one. Excpet we have 15 differevnt versions of the doc and I no longer know which one I'm suppoed to be looking at! ←

19:47:47 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

19:47:53 <phila> s/I;m/I'm/g#

19:47:56 <phila> s/I;m/I'm/g

19:48:00 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

19:48:20 <annette_g> http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html

Annette Greiner: http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html ←

19:48:42 <phila> OK, so we're just looking at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html, not a Google doc. OK, I'm happy enough

Phil Archer: OK, so we're just looking at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html, not a Google doc. OK, I'm happy enough ←

19:48:49 <phila> Thanks BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: Thanks BernadetteLoscio ←

19:49:23 <phila> So we 8are* looking at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies

Phil Archer: So we 8are* looking at http://bernafarias.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#VersioningVocabularies ←

19:50:40 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

19:50:49 <phila> q+ to propose that versioning is only discussed once

Phil Archer: q+ to propose that versioning is only discussed once ←

19:50:51 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: the feedback that we had was for both: versioning of vocabularies and for datasets

Bernadette Farias Loscio: the feedback that we had was for both: versioning of vocabularies and for datasets ←

19:51:04 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

19:51:08 <yaso> q?

q? ←

19:51:32 <phila> PROPOSED: That we only have one BP about versioning

PROPOSED: That we only have one BP about versioning ←

19:51:34 <phila> q-

Phil Archer: q- ←

19:52:03 <yaso> annette_g: I think that we really should have only one BP about versioning, just deleting n. 60

Annette Greiner: I think that we really should have only one BP about versioning, just deleting n. 16 ←

19:52:26 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

19:52:27 <annette_g> s/60/16/

19:52:59 <yaso> annette_g: proposed is to remove the BP for vocabulary versioning

Annette Greiner: proposed is to remove the BP for vocabulary versioning ←

19:53:01 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

19:53:06 <phila> PROPOSED: That we only have one BP about versioning, by merging data versioning and vocabulary versioning, favouring the data versioning one

PROPOSED: That we only have one BP about versioning, by merging data versioning and vocabulary versioning, favouring the data versioning one ←

19:53:22 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: maybe we need more time for this one

Bernadette Farias Loscio: maybe we need more time for this one ←

19:53:49 <yaso> Ig_Bittencourt: thinking about the differences of remove or merge it,

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: thinking about the differences of remove or merge it, ←

19:54:01 <yaso> ... different things

... different things ←

19:54:29 <phila> PROPOSED: That we only have one BP about versioning, by merging data versioning and vocabulary versioning, favouring the data versioning one

PROPOSED: That we only have one BP about versioning, by merging data versioning and vocabulary versioning, favouring the data versioning one ←

19:54:33 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

19:54:33 <annette_g> -1

Annette Greiner: -1 ←

19:54:39 <newton> -1

Unknown newton: -1 ←

19:54:43 <Ig_Bittencourt> -1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: -1 ←

19:54:47 <giancarlo_guizzardi> -1

Giancarlo Guizzardi: -1 ←

19:54:49 <phila> Then we misunderstood here...

Phil Archer: Then we misunderstood here... ←

19:55:14 <annette_g> PROPOSED: that we remove the best practice about versioning vocabularies

PROPOSED: that we remove the best practice about versioning vocabularies ←

19:55:15 <phila> No

Phil Archer: No ←

19:55:22 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

19:55:23 <laufer> -1

Carlos Laufer: -1 ←

19:55:24 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

19:55:25 <laufer> _1

Carlos Laufer: _1 ←

19:55:34 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

19:55:41 <Ig_Bittencourt> -1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: -1 ←

19:55:50 <giancarlo_guizzardi> -1

Giancarlo Guizzardi: -1 ←

19:55:52 <phila> ack SumitPurohit

Phil Archer: ack SumitPurohit ←

19:56:03 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Keep both bps on versioning and add memento to both

PROPOSED: Keep both bps on versioning and add memento to both ←

19:56:09 <phila> -1

Phil Archer: -1 ←

19:56:39 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

19:56:39 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

19:56:47 <yaso> SumitPurohit: data also includes vocabulary

Sumit Purohit: data also includes vocabulary ←

19:57:05 <yaso> ... but once you start working with data, this distinction actually fades

... but once you start working with data, this distinction actually fades ←

19:57:32 <phila> ack ericstephan

Phil Archer: ack ericstephan ←

19:57:36 <yaso> q?

q? ←

19:58:08 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

19:58:20 <giancarlo_guizzardi> "data includes vocabulary" could be interpreted as a version of "there is not distinction between data and metadata"

Giancarlo Guizzardi: "data includes vocabulary" could be interpreted as a version of "there is no distinction between data and metadata" ←

19:58:31 <giancarlo_guizzardi> s/not/no

19:58:33 <yaso> ericstephan: in some ways what I'm suggesting is dumming down things, unless you can make cristal clear for the 2

Eric Stephan: in some ways what I'm suggesting is dumming down things, unless you can make cristal clear for the 2 ←

19:58:44 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

19:58:51 <yaso> ericstephan: that is why I made my +1 for merging the 2

Eric Stephan: that is why I made my +1 for merging the 2 ←

19:58:53 <phila> PROPOSED: That we remove the best practice on versioning vocabularies, transferring any relevant points to the data versioning BP. We will refer to memento as a possible implementation

PROPOSED: That we remove the best practice on versioning vocabularies, transferring any relevant points to the data versioning BP. We will refer to memento as a possible implementation ←

19:59:05 <phila> ack BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

19:59:08 <deirdrelee> zakim, close the queue

Deirdre Lee: zakim, close the queue ←

19:59:08 <Zakim> ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed ←

19:59:11 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

19:59:31 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: I agree with ericstephan, but when writing the BP, we are talking about data or a dataset?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I agree with ericstephan, but when writing the BP, we are talking about data or a dataset? ←

19:59:51 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: if we can solve this we are going to solve a lot of problems at the document

Bernadette Farias Loscio: if we can solve this we are going to solve a lot of problems at the document ←

19:59:59 <phila> IMO - for DWBP data = dataset

Phil Archer: IMO - for DWBP data = dataset ←

20:00:02 <giancarlo_guizzardi> q+

Giancarlo Guizzardi: q+ ←

20:00:03 <yaso> ... a dataset should have a version number,

... a dataset should have a version number, ←

20:00:07 <Makx_Dekkers> a vocabulary is data, not metadata. you can have metadata about a vocabulary (e.g. ADMS)

Makx Dekkers: a vocabulary is data, not metadata. you can have metadata about a vocabulary (e.g. ADMS) ←

20:00:14 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to phila

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to phila ←

20:00:30 <yaso> ... we need 1 BP for datasets and 1 BP for vocabulary

... we need 1 BP for datasets and 1 BP for vocabulary ←

20:00:39 <yaso> ... BP should be applied on something

... BP should be applied on something ←

20:00:50 <yaso> q?

q? ←

20:00:59 <ericstephan> I like the idea about tightening up the language on data

Eric Stephan: I like the idea about tightening up the language on data ←

20:01:25 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: data will be updated over time - we are talking about data collection or dataset updating?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: data will be updated over time - we are talking about data collection or dataset updating? ←

20:01:26 <giancarlo_guizzardi> Makx: Vocabulary is a kind of content metadata. The fact that we can have metadata about it, it does not mean that it cannot be metadata

Makx Dekkers: Vocabulary is a kind of content metadata. The fact that we can have metadata about it, it does not mean that it cannot be metadata [ Scribe Assist by Giancarlo Guizzardi ] ←

20:01:30 <newton> q+

Unknown newton: q+ ←

20:01:33 <giancarlo_guizzardi> we can have metadata about metadata

Giancarlo Guizzardi: we can have metadata about metadata ←

20:01:42 <giancarlo_guizzardi> that is what I meant by this being a relative notion

Giancarlo Guizzardi: that is what I meant by this being a relative notion ←

20:01:53 <Makx_Dekkers> giancarlo, don't go there!

Makx Dekkers: giancarlo, don't go there! ←

20:02:04 <phila> I think we're proving DanBri's point...

Phil Archer: I think we're proving DanBri's point... ←

20:02:24 <ericstephan> is metadata about metadata metameta?

Eric Stephan: is metadata about metadata metameta? ←

20:02:33 <giancarlo_guizzardi> I think we are proving that if we don't have precise definitions, it is very easy to get lost in all related discussions

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I think we are proving that if we don't have precise definitions, it is very easy to get lost in all related discussions ←

20:02:33 <yaso> agree with phila

agree with phila ←

20:02:44 <phila> CHAIR INTERRUPT

Phil Archer: CHAIR INTERRUPT ←

20:02:44 <BernadetteLoscio> :)

Bernadette Farias Loscio: :) ←

20:02:52 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to phila and giancarlo_guizzardi

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to phila and giancarlo_guizzardi ←

20:03:05 <phila> deirdrelee: We have 2 issues. We have a BP on vocab versioning and another on data versioning

Deirdre Lee: We have 2 issues. We have a BP on vocab versioning and another on data versioning [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:03:17 <BernadetteLoscio> +1 to giancarlo!

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 to giancarlo! ←

20:03:22 <phila> ... we've gone back to talling about metadata and data. I know they're related bu t we jave to move on

Phil Archer: ... we've gone back to talling about metadata and data. I know they're related bu t we jave to move on ←

20:03:32 <SumitPurohit> -q

Sumit Purohit: -q ←

20:03:34 <laufer> semantics is exactly about the confusion, giancarlo...

Carlos Laufer: semantics is exactly about the confusion, giancarlo... ←

20:03:56 <phila> deirdrelee: Looks like we have agreement to include Memento as a possible implementation

Deirdre Lee: Looks like we have agreement to include Memento as a possible implementation [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:03:57 <Makx_Dekkers> nce between BPs for data and metadata, and BPS for data and vocabularies

Makx Dekkers: nce between BPs for data and metadata, and BPS for data and vocabularies ←

20:04:10 <giancarlo_guizzardi> laufer: I am confused and not about semantics :-)

Carlos Laufer: I am confused and not about semantics :-) [ Scribe Assist by Giancarlo Guizzardi ] ←

20:04:12 <ericstephan> one best practice for versioning that can be applied to dataset and vocab

Eric Stephan: one best practice for versioning that can be applied to dataset and vocab ←

20:04:26 <giancarlo_guizzardi> q-

Giancarlo Guizzardi: q- ←

20:04:27 <Makx_Dekkers> +1 to eric

Makx Dekkers: +1 to eric ←

20:04:32 <flavio> +1 to eric

Flavio Yanai: +1 to eric ←

20:04:46 <annette_g> +1 to eric

Annette Greiner: +1 to eric ←

20:05:03 <phila> PROPOSED: That we remove the best practice on versioning vocabularies, transferring any relevant points to the data versioning BP. We will refer to memento as a possible implementation

PROPOSED: That we remove the best practice on versioning vocabularies, transferring any relevant points to the data versioning BP. We will refer to memento as a possible implementation ←

20:05:10 <Ig_Bittencourt> Maybe the ericstephan's proposal could be the best way

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Maybe the ericstephan's proposal could be the best way ←

20:06:09 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: a BP for versioning that is UNIVERSAL

Bernadette Farias Loscio: a BP for versioning that is UNIVERSAL ←

20:06:39 <Ig_Bittencourt> Not necessarily universal, but that fits to both.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Not necessarily universal, but that fits to both. ←

20:06:39 <giancarlo_guizzardi> q+

Giancarlo Guizzardi: q+ ←

20:06:42 <yaso> PROPOSED: That we remove the best practice on versioning vocabularies, transferring any relevant points to the data versioning BP. We will refer to memento as a possible implementation

PROPOSED: That we remove the best practice on versioning vocabularies, transferring any relevant points to the data versioning BP. We will refer to memento as a possible implementation ←

20:07:18 <ericstephan> PROPOSED: We have one best practice for versioning that can be applied to dataset and vocabulary

PROPOSED: We have one best practice for versioning that can be applied to dataset and vocabulary ←

20:07:24 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

20:07:26 <flavio> +1

Flavio Yanai: +1 ←

20:07:26 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 to ericstephan

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to ericstephan ←

20:07:27 <GiselePappa> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

20:07:30 <yaso> +1 to ericstephan

+1 to ericstephan ←

20:07:30 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

20:07:34 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 ←

20:07:34 <Makx_Dekkers> .+1

Makx Dekkers: .+1 ←

20:07:35 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

20:07:35 <newton> +1

Unknown newton: +1 ←

20:07:35 <giancarlo_guizzardi> +0

Giancarlo Guizzardi: +0 ←

20:07:36 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

20:07:36 <phila> +1

Phil Archer: +1 ←

20:07:37 <laufer> we are just postponing the necessity of the BP for vocabularies versioning...

Carlos Laufer: we are just postponing the necessity of the BP for vocabularies versioning... ←

20:07:39 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

20:07:44 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

20:07:44 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

20:07:46 <phila> zakim, open queue

Phil Archer: zakim, open queue ←

20:07:47 <Zakim> ok, phila, the speaker queue is open

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila, the speaker queue is open ←

20:07:59 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

20:08:22 <yaso> giancarlo_guizzardi: I think that we should ask is why people would want versioning, in the first place

Giancarlo Guizzardi: I think that we should ask is why people would want versioning, in the first place ←

20:08:36 <yaso> It has to do with the compliance to this vocabulary

It has to do with the compliance to this vocabulary ←

20:09:01 <yaso> ... that could be ok, for a given application

... that could be ok, for a given application ←

20:09:25 <yaso> ... why do we think that this is relevant

... why do we think that this is relevant ←

20:09:51 <yaso> ... this BP are important to reflect some quality dimensions?

... this BP are important to reflect some quality dimensions? ←

20:10:27 <Makx_Dekkers> you may not want versioning, but it is a fact of life. things chang

Makx Dekkers: you may not want versioning, but it is a fact of life. things chang ←

20:10:44 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

20:10:44 <yaso> deirdre: moving to the next point

Deirdre Lee: moving to the next point ←

20:10:46 <phila> RESOLVED: We have one best practice for versioning that can be applied to dataset and vocabulary

RESOLVED: We have one best practice for versioning that can be applied to dataset and vocabulary ←

20:10:54 <laufer> the versioning is necessary because we have the same identifier for the dataset during the life of data...

Carlos Laufer: the versioning is necessary because we have the same identifier for the dataset during the life of data... ←

20:11:17 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g

Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←

20:11:23 <Makx_Dekkers> no! different version, different identifier!

Makx Dekkers: no! different version, different identifier! ←

20:11:27 <yaso> annette_g: our document is really long

Annette Greiner: our document is really long ←

20:11:33 <phila> +1 Makx

Phil Archer: +1 Makx ←

20:11:37 <laufer> not for vocabularies, makx

Carlos Laufer: not for vocabularies, makx ←

20:11:42 <yaso> annette_g: we should look for opportunities to make it shorter

Annette Greiner: we should look for opportunities to make it shorter ←

20:11:44 <phila> ack SumitPurohit

Phil Archer: ack SumitPurohit ←

20:12:00 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

20:12:16 <yaso> SumitPurohit: that inconsistent with the rest of the document. If wauallity is only about dataset, and not about versioning, it is kind of confusing

Sumit Purohit: that inconsistent with the rest of the document. If quality is only about dataset, and not about versioning, it is kind of confusing ←

20:12:29 <Makx_Dekkers> laufer, even for vocabularies

Makx Dekkers: laufer, even for vocabularies ←

20:12:38 <annette_g> s/wauallity/quality/

20:12:48 <yaso> SumitPurohit: just scan the document and make sure that we used all the words when needed

Sumit Purohit: just scan the document and make sure that we used all the words when needed ←

20:13:16 <laufer> even for uris, makx?

Carlos Laufer: even for uris, makx? ←

20:13:27 <yaso> q?

q? ←

20:13:42 <Makx_Dekkers> laufer, the terms may not change and keep the same identifiers, but the vocabulary as a whole may be versioned

Makx Dekkers: laufer, the terms may not change and keep the same identifiers, but the vocabulary as a whole may be versioned ←

20:13:54 <phila> ack BernadetteLoscio

Phil Archer: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

20:14:07 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: I think what SumitPurohit is saying that in the document we are explicit about the terms

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think what SumitPurohit is saying that in the document we are explicit about the terms ←

20:14:27 <giancarlo_guizzardi> Folks, unfortunately I will need to leave right now. This has been very interesting. Thanks.

Giancarlo Guizzardi: Folks, unfortunately I will need to leave right now. This has been very interesting. Thanks. ←

20:14:38 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←

20:14:41 <Makx_Dekkers> a vocab with terms a, b, and c is different from the vocabulary with a, b, c and d, even if a, b, and c stay the same

Makx Dekkers: a vocab with terms a, b, and c is different from the vocabulary with a, b, c and d, even if a, b, and c stay the same ←

20:14:42 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: in several parts we talk about datasets, then we need to review the document and see if the BP apply to both cases

Bernadette Farias Loscio: in several parts we talk about datasets, then we need to review the document and see if the BP apply to both cases ←

20:14:45 <phila> Thanks giancarlo_guizzardi

Phil Archer: Thanks giancarlo_guizzardi ←

20:14:52 <laufer> the vocabulary is versioned but is the same uri

Carlos Laufer: the vocabulary is versioned but is the same uri ←

20:14:57 <Ig_Bittencourt> Thanks giancarlo_guizzardi. Look at my e-mail after.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Thanks giancarlo_guizzardi. Look at my e-mail after. ←

20:15:08 <giancarlo_guizzardi> ok. will do. talk to you tomorrow

Giancarlo Guizzardi: ok. will do. talk to you tomorrow ←

20:15:09 <giancarlo_guizzardi> ciao

Giancarlo Guizzardi: ciao ←

20:15:16 <yaso> ... when we talk about data licences, for instance, vocabulary and dataset? Why not include the vocabulary?

... when we talk about data licences, for instance, vocabulary and dataset? Why not include the vocabulary? ←

20:15:25 <yaso> .. this is going to be a big change to the document

.. this is going to be a big change to the document ←

20:15:38 <Makx_Dekkers> no! different version, different uri

Makx Dekkers: no! different version, different uri ←

20:15:47 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

20:15:53 <ericstephan> Are dataset and vocab to be assumed unless otherwise noted?

Eric Stephan: Are dataset and vocab to be assumed unless otherwise noted? ←

20:15:56 <phila> q+ to talk about dataset/vocab

Phil Archer: q+ to talk about dataset/vocab ←

20:16:11 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

20:16:11 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about dataset/vocab

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to talk about dataset/vocab ←

20:16:13 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

20:16:56 <annette_g> q+ to question the assumption that a vocabulary is a dataset

Annette Greiner: q+ to question the assumption that a vocabulary is a dataset ←

20:16:57 <laufer> so, schem.org has different uris for each new verion of its vocabularies, maks... is this?

Carlos Laufer: so, schem.org has different uris for each new verion of its vocabularies, maks... is this? ←

20:17:19 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

20:17:21 <yaso> phila: we don't want to have 2 separated BPs

Phil Archer: we don't want to have 2 separated BPs ←

20:17:41 <phila> ack deirdrelee

Phil Archer: ack deirdrelee ←

20:17:50 <deirdrelee> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/blob/gh-pages/glossary.html

Deirdre Lee: http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/blob/gh-pages/glossary.html ←

20:18:04 <deirdrelee> o	52, 55, 59, 68, 80, 82, 133, 134

Deirdre Lee: o 52, 55, 59, 68, 80, 82, 133, 134 ←

20:18:16 <yaso> https://w3c.github.io/dwbp/glossary.html

https://w3c.github.io/dwbp/glossary.html ←

20:18:28 <Makx_Dekkers> laufer, I don't know about schema.org. I know what I've been doing for ADMS vocabularies.

Makx Dekkers: laufer, I don't know about schema.org. I know what I've been doing for ADMS vocabularies. ←

20:18:29 <ericstephan> perhaps a "context" field needs to be added to describe what 'thing' it should be applied

Eric Stephan: perhaps a "context" field needs to be added to describe what 'thing' it should be applied ←

20:18:55 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: we talked about how to use this vocabularies, we should talk about licences

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we talked about how to use this vocabularies, we should talk about licences ←

20:18:58 <laufer> ok, makx

Carlos Laufer: ok, makx ←

20:19:19 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: the second question is: the BPs for metadata apply to datasets and vocabs?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: the second question is: the BPs for metadata apply to datasets and vocabs? ←

20:19:45 <yaso> q+

q+ ←

20:20:08 <phila> deirdrelee: Can we frame things so that it's clear whether we're talking about data, vocabs and/or metadata?

Deirdre Lee: Can we frame things so that it's clear whether we're talking about data, vocabs and/or metadata? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:20:08 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g

Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←

20:20:08 <Zakim> annette_g, you wanted to question the assumption that a vocabulary is a dataset

Zakim IRC Bot: annette_g, you wanted to question the assumption that a vocabulary is a dataset ←

20:20:11 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

20:20:27 <Ig_Bittencourt> q=

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q= ←

20:20:29 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←

20:20:30 <yaso> annette_g: the more I think about the less I think it is true that a vocabulary is metadata

Annette Greiner: the more I think about the less I think it is true that a vocabulary is metadata ←

20:20:49 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

20:20:50 <yaso> annette_g: I think it is out of scope

Annette Greiner: I think it is out of scope ←

20:21:02 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio

Deirdre Lee: ack BernadetteLoscio ←

20:21:04 <Makx_Dekkers> In my opinion, a vocabulary is a dataset. It fits the definition of dataset in DCAT

Makx Dekkers: In my opinion, a vocabulary is a dataset. It fits the definition of dataset in DCAT ←

20:21:10 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

20:21:14 <yaso> BernadetteLoscio: it is just that: what is the difference between publishing a dataset and a vocabulary

Bernadette Farias Loscio: it is just that: what is the difference between publishing a dataset and a vocabulary ←

20:21:34 <Makx_Dekkers> I describe vocabularies with ADMS as a adms:Asset which is a subclass of dcat:Dataset

Makx Dekkers: I describe vocabularies with ADMS as a adms:Asset which is a subclass of dcat:Dataset ←

20:21:39 <yaso> ... in the document we are talking about publishing dataset and publishing vocabulary

... in the document we are talking about publishing dataset and publishing vocabulary ←

20:22:07 <yaso> annette_g: I think we should mention vocabs but I do not think that we are here to teach people how to make a vocabulary

Annette Greiner: I think we should mention vocabs but I do not think that we are here to teach people how to make a vocabulary ←

20:22:20 <yaso> deirdre: it is in scope?

Deirdre Lee: it is in scope? ←

20:22:28 <yaso> ... we really want to make some decisions

... we really want to make some decisions ←

20:22:33 <phila> deirdrelee: I think Annette brings up an important issue, not only are datasets and vocabs different and is that question is scope

Deirdre Lee: I think Annette brings up an important issue, not only are datasets and vocabs different and is that question is scope [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:22:37 <ericstephan> Could we be onto a new glossary term "vataset" or "docab"?  ;-)

Eric Stephan: Could we be onto a new glossary term "vataset" or "docab"? ;-) ←

20:22:43 <phila> ... if it's in scope, how do we include it in the docs

Phil Archer: ... if it's in scope, how do we include it in the docs ←

20:22:45 <phila> ack yaso

Phil Archer: ack yaso ←

20:22:52 <phila> +1 ericstephan

Phil Archer: +1 ericstephan ←

20:23:53 <Makx_Dekkers> The issue is, I think, that people have a mental model of what a dataset is. I've been asking to make that mental model explicit.

Makx Dekkers: The issue is, I think, that people have a mental model of what a dataset is. I've been asking to make that mental model explicit. ←

20:24:11 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?

Deirdre Lee: zakim, who is here? ←

20:24:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ipswich, Austin

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ipswich, Austin ←

20:24:11 <laufer> a vocabulary is a language to talk with machines... as a natural language is a language to talk with humans...

Carlos Laufer: a vocabulary is a language to talk with machines... as a natural language is a language to talk with humans... ←

20:24:13 <Zakim> Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila

Zakim IRC Bot: Ipswich has deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila ←

20:24:13 <Zakim> Austin has ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio

Zakim IRC Bot: Austin has ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, BernadetteLoscio ←

20:24:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Makx_Dekkers, Ig_Bittencourt, SumitPurohit, laufer, GiselePappa, BernadetteLoscio, riccardoAlbertoni, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, phila, deirdrelee,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Makx_Dekkers, Ig_Bittencourt, SumitPurohit, laufer, GiselePappa, BernadetteLoscio, riccardoAlbertoni, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, phila, deirdrelee, ←

20:24:14 <Zakim> ... Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Zakim, RRSAgent, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot ←

20:24:25 <ericstephan> +1 Makx_Dekkers

Eric Stephan: +1 Makx_Dekkers ←

20:24:44 <Makx_Dekkers> I favour an inclusive mental model that includes vocabularies, images, text collections, spreadsheets, video streams etc.

Makx Dekkers: I favour an inclusive mental model that includes vocabularies, images, text collections, spreadsheets, video streams etc. ←

20:24:56 <yaso> +1 to  Makx_Dekkers

+1 to Makx_Dekkers ←

20:24:59 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

20:25:00 <ericstephan> +q

Eric Stephan: +q ←

20:25:04 <ericstephan> q+

Eric Stephan: q+ ←

20:25:11 <phila> present+ GiselePappa, Sumit,

Phil Archer: present+ GiselePappa, Sumit, ←

20:25:14 <deirdrelee> ack Ig_Bittencourt

Deirdre Lee: ack Ig_Bittencourt ←

20:25:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila ←

20:25:44 <newton> Makx_Dekkers, I agree with you. Do you have any suggestions or would like to start it?

Unknown newton: Makx_Dekkers, I agree with you. Do you have any suggestions or would like to start it? ←

20:25:46 <Makx_Dekkers> But I have also expressed my opinion that we can't write BPs for all those types of data. We just don't have the knowledge for that.

Makx Dekkers: But I have also expressed my opinion that we can't write BPs for all those types of data. We just don't have the knowledge for that. ←

20:25:52 <laufer> vocabularies are replicating the way humans establish communication...

Carlos Laufer: vocabularies are replicating the way humans establish communication... ←

20:25:57 <yaso> maintenance is different of creation imho

maintenance is different of creation imho ←

20:26:14 <yaso> Laufer: do you want to scribe?

Carlos Laufer: do you want to scribe? ←

20:26:32 <Makx_Dekkers> My proposal was to focus our work just on spreadsheet-like data and leave the rest ot other experts.

Makx Dekkers: My proposal was to focus our work just on spreadsheet-like data and leave the rest ot other experts. ←

20:26:42 <ericstephan> Makx_Dekkers - I like the schema.org term https://schema.org/CreativeWork which is a parent to many mental model digital objects

Eric Stephan: Makx_Dekkers - I like the schema.org term https://schema.org/CreativeWork which is a parent to many mental model digital objects ←

20:26:59 <yaso> This is a bargain, deirdre

This is a bargain, deirdre ←

20:27:20 <phila> ack SumitPurohit

Phil Archer: ack SumitPurohit ←

20:27:26 <Makx_Dekkers> Otherwise, BPs can only be very general. What's the similarity between publishing a spreadsheet and a video feed? Not much.

Makx Dekkers: Otherwise, BPs can only be very general. What's the similarity between publishing a spreadsheet and a video feed? Not much. ←

20:27:50 <laufer> thank you, phil... I almost believed...

Carlos Laufer: thank you, phil... I almost believed... ←

20:28:28 <yaso> sorry, deirdre, I lost that

sorry, deirdre, I lost that ←

20:28:37 <Makx_Dekkers> I like https://schema.org/Thing better...

Makx Dekkers: I like https://schema.org/Thing better... ←

20:28:51 <ericstephan> it is the parent of https://schema.org/CreativeWork

Eric Stephan: it is the parent of https://schema.org/CreativeWork ←

20:28:53 <yaso> thanks, deirdre!

thanks, deirdre! ←

20:28:58 <laufer> tomorrow...

Carlos Laufer: tomorrow... ←

20:29:03 <phila> scribe: Newton

(Scribe set to Unknown Newton)

20:29:36 <newton> SumitPurohit: for this group probably we may distinguish between data and vocabulary

Sumit Purohit: for this group probably we may distinguish between data and vocabulary [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:29:49 <Makx_Dekkers> Apologies, have to sign off. Supper calls...

Makx Dekkers: Apologies, have to sign off. Supper calls... ←

20:30:06 <phila> q+ to make a proposal that Berna might not like but might move us on a little

Phil Archer: q+ to make a proposal that Berna might not like but might move us on a little ←

20:30:14 <newton> Ig: even this situation we are talking about data on the web, not necessary about vocabulary or ontology

Scribe problem: the name 'Ig' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto Carlos Iglesias . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Ig: even this situation we are talking about data on the web, not necessary about vocabulary or ontology [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:30:17 <yaso> Ig_Bittencourt: we are talking about creation of BP for vocabulary creation

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: we are talking about creation of BP for vocabulary creation [ Scribe Assist by Yaso Córdova ] ←

20:30:21 <phila> Thanks Makx - bon apetite

Phil Archer: Thanks Makx - bon apetite ←

20:30:43 <BernadetteLoscio> q+

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←

20:31:03 <newton> ... In my opinion is still the same, and I agree on removing versioning vocabulary BP

Unknown newton: ... In my opinion is still the same, and I agree on removing versioning vocabulary BP ←

20:31:26 <yaso> If anyone wants to explore this question about a mental model with me after the meeting, We could spend an hour on this

Yaso Córdova: If anyone wants to explore this question about a mental model with me after the meeting, We could spend an hour on this ←

20:31:28 <annette_g> we need a definition of data

Annette Greiner: we need a definition of data ←

20:31:33 <BernadetteLoscio> q-

Bernadette Farias Loscio: q- ←

20:31:34 <laufer> remove remove remove

Carlos Laufer: remove remove remove ←

20:31:47 <yaso> I really believe that this could help the grou to stick to situations related to context

Yaso Córdova: I really believe that this could help the grou to stick to situations related to context ←

20:32:07 <deirdrelee> ack ericstephan

Deirdre Lee: ack ericstephan ←

20:32:09 <newton> ericstephan: Makz was sharing great thoughts

Eric Stephan: Makx was sharing great thoughts [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:32:31 <newton> ... BernadetteLoscio and I were thinking about different kinds of data to put on the web

Unknown newton: ... BernadetteLoscio and I were thinking about different kinds of data to put on the web ←

20:32:56 <newton> ... Makz shared thoghts about a mental model concerning about more kinds of data

Unknown newton: ... Makx shared thoghts about a mental model concerning about more kinds of data ←

20:33:10 <phila> s/Makz/Makx/g

20:33:43 <yaso> I agree with ericstephan

Yaso Córdova: I agree with ericstephan ←

20:33:45 <Ig_Bittencourt> s\talking\not talking

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: s\talking\not talking ←

20:34:02 <newton> ... I think that might be example that people use everyday, such as videos, experimental datasets

Unknown newton: ... I think that might be example that people use everyday, such as videos, experimental datasets ←

20:34:12 <yaso> q+

Yaso Córdova: q+ ←

20:34:35 <annette_g> data = recorded observations

Annette Greiner: data = recorded observations ←

20:34:59 <newton> ericstephan: I think we need a glossary

Eric Stephan: I think we need a glossary [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:35:23 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

20:35:23 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to make a proposal that Berna might not like but might move us on a little

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to make a proposal that Berna might not like but might move us on a little ←

20:35:34 <newton> ... we could have a glossary not only for general terms, but to specific things too

Unknown newton: ... we could have a glossary not only for general terms, but to specific things too ←

20:36:37 <annette_g> q+

Annette Greiner: q+ ←

20:36:37 <deirdrelee> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

20:36:45 <ericstephan> draft proposal:  define example "mental models" as examples of dataset, vocabulary in glossary.

Eric Stephan: draft proposal: define example "mental models" as examples of dataset, vocabulary in glossary. ←

20:37:31 <phila> phila: I was saying thagt most BPs will apply to all kinds of data. Where they only apply to specific types, say, vocabs, then we should say so. perhaps organise the doc from general down to specific.

Phil Archer: I was saying thagt most BPs will apply to all kinds of data. Where they only apply to specific types, say, vocabs, then we should say so. perhaps organise the doc from general down to specific. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:37:54 <phila> In the glossary or BP doc, eric?

Phil Archer: In the glossary or BP doc, eric? ←

20:37:56 <newton> yaso: I was going to propose about the mental model, but ericstephan already said about it

Yaso Córdova: I was going to propose about the mental model, but ericstephan already said about it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:38:12 <deirdrelee> ack yaso

Deirdre Lee: ack yaso ←

20:38:15 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g

Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←

20:40:20 <newton> annette_g: I think this is a very fundamental distinction; versioning is important to data, and it's necessary to have a meaning of what is data

Annette Greiner: I think this is a very fundamental distinction; versioning is important to data, and it's necessary to have a meaning of what is data [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:40:26 <phila> I'm recalling the conversation in Croke Park a few years ago when we came to the conclusion that dcat:Dataset = Information Resource, which is counter to what Annette is saying

Phil Archer: I'm recalling the conversation in Croke Park a few years ago when we came to the conclusion that dcat:Dataset = Information Resource, which is counter to what Annette is saying ←

20:41:02 <phila> CHAIR INTERRUPT

Phil Archer: CHAIR INTERRUPT ←

20:41:05 <phila> ack deirdrelee

Phil Archer: ack deirdrelee ←

20:41:10 <phila> 20 mins to go...

Phil Archer: 20 mins to go... ←

20:41:18 <newton> deirdrelee: 20 minutes left... and a couple of things to decide

Deirdre Lee: 20 minutes left... and a couple of things to decide [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:41:42 <newton> ... first of all is the vocabulary is not a dataset (?)

Unknown newton: ... first of all is the vocabulary is not a dataset (?) ←

20:41:46 <phila> deirdrelee: Options are - vocabs, metadata are treated as datasets, or we agree that they are not, or that it's out of scope and we don't have to decide

Deirdre Lee: Options are - vocabs, metadata are treated as datasets, or we agree that they are not, or that it's out of scope and we don't have to decide [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:41:58 <phila> ... and there's the added thing of deciding which BP applies to each

Phil Archer: ... and there's the added thing of deciding which BP applies to each ←

20:42:14 <phila> ... that may be a very long conversation

Phil Archer: ... that may be a very long conversation ←

20:42:44 <phila> deirdrelee: Consensus seems to be that we treat metadata and vocabs as datasets... most of the time

Deirdre Lee: Consensus seems to be that we treat metadata and vocabs as datasets... most of the time [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:42:59 <phila> ... what gets included in the glossary, what gets included in the BP doc

Phil Archer: ... what gets included in the glossary, what gets included in the BP doc ←

20:43:15 <ericstephan> draft proposal:  conclude that vocabs, datasets aren't the same thing, but the same technique can at times be applied to both

Eric Stephan: draft proposal: conclude that vocabs, datasets aren't the same thing, but the same technique can at times be applied to both ←

20:43:34 <annette_g> q+ to ask what is not data?

Annette Greiner: q+ to ask what is not data? ←

20:43:41 <yaso> 1+

Yaso Córdova: 1+ ←

20:43:46 <BernadetteLoscio> +1

Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←

20:43:57 <deirdrelee> conclude that vocabs, datasets aren't the same thing, but the same technique can at times be applied to both

Deirdre Lee: conclude that vocabs, datasets aren't the same thing, but the same technique can at times be applied to both ←

20:44:29 <newton> ericstephan: we have different mental model on what those things are

Eric Stephan: we have different mental model on what those things are [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:44:45 <newton> ... but we can use the same BP technique on vocab, datasets

Unknown newton: ... but we can use the same BP technique on vocab, datasets ←

20:45:07 <newton> ... we need to focus on methodology and on how methodology could be applied on it

Unknown newton: ... we need to focus on methodology and on how methodology could be applied on it ←

20:45:19 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to  conclude that vocabs, datasets aren't the same thing, but the same technique can at times be applied to both

Riccardo Albertoni: +1 to conclude that vocabs, datasets aren't the same thing, but the same technique can at times be applied to both ←

20:45:35 <newton> annette_g: I agree that a specific methodology can be applied on both

Annette Greiner: I agree that a specific methodology can be applied on both [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:45:40 <deirdrelee> draft proposal: to decide if vocab and dataset are equal is out of scope, but if BPs specifically to metadata or vocab, we call it out in the BP (not that we have to say it necessarily for each BP)

Deirdre Lee: draft proposal: to decide if vocab and dataset are equal is out of scope, but if BPs specifically to metadata or vocab, we call it out in the BP (not that we have to say it necessarily for each BP) ←

20:46:15 <phila> q+ to make a concrete proposal

Phil Archer: q+ to make a concrete proposal ←

20:46:30 <phila> ack annette_g

Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←

20:46:30 <Zakim> annette_g, you wanted to ask what is not data?

Zakim IRC Bot: annette_g, you wanted to ask what is not data? ←

20:46:48 <phila> ack me

Phil Archer: ack me ←

20:46:48 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to make a concrete proposal

Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to make a concrete proposal ←

20:46:54 <phila> One can treat vocabularies, metadata and data as one species - the boundaries between them are not always absolute. However, for the purpose of the Best Practices, we have a number of mental models to help:

Phil Archer: One can treat vocabularies, metadata and data as one species - the boundaries between them are not always absolute. However, for the purpose of the Best Practices, we have a number of mental models to help: ←

20:46:54 <phila> A dataset is...

Phil Archer: A dataset is... ←

20:46:54 <phila> A vocbulary is...

Phil Archer: A vocbulary is... ←

20:46:54 <phila> Metadata is...

Phil Archer: Metadata is... ←

20:47:01 <yaso> annette_g: jpeg picture published with encoded exif data, for instance: jpeg is not data, but has data encoded in exif tags. This metadata can be extracted. Jpeg is not data, but can be read by spiders that identify some features and put them together in a dataset. Then is data extracted from the picture, I think...

Annette Greiner: jpeg picture published with encoded exif data, for instance: jpeg is not data, but has data encoded in exif tags. This metadata can be extracted. Jpeg is not data, but can be read by spiders that identify some features and put them together in a dataset. Then is data extracted from the picture, I think... [ Scribe Assist by Yaso Córdova ] ←

20:47:23 <BernadetteLoscio> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Glossary

Bernadette Farias Loscio: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Glossary ←

20:47:38 <annette_g> yaso, yes, one can use it as data if that is the intention

Annette Greiner: yaso, yes, one can use it as data if that is the intention ←

20:47:49 <deirdrelee> q?

Deirdre Lee: q? ←

20:47:56 <ericstephan> +1 phila

Eric Stephan: +1 phila ←

20:48:15 <yaso> annette_g: that's why I think we should think in mental models, or "situations"

Annette Greiner: that's why I think we should think in mental models, or "situations" [ Scribe Assist by Yaso Córdova ] ←

20:48:18 <newton> deirdrelee: we have a glossary that yaso and bernadette are working on

Deirdre Lee: we have a glossary that yaso and bernadette are working on [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:48:33 <newton> ... we also may include a disclaimer to recognize

Unknown newton: ... we also may include a disclaimer to recognize ←

20:48:58 <annette_g> yaso: if we cover all situations, we will have an endless document

Yaso Córdova: if we cover all situations, we will have an endless document [ Scribe Assist by Annette Greiner ] ←

20:48:58 <yaso> and then say: in this specific situations, this wg will not work, like best formats to encode metadata, or best softwares to extract data from media

Yaso Córdova: and then say: in this specific situations, this wg will not work, like best formats to encode metadata, or best softwares to extract data from media ←

20:49:03 <newton> ... we can assume that all BPs apply to dataset

Unknown newton: ... we can assume that all BPs apply to dataset ←

20:49:21 <newton> scribe: yaso

(Scribe set to Yaso Córdova)

20:49:22 <yaso> defining situations mean that we can get rid of some of them :-)

defining situations mean that we can get rid of some of them :-) ←

20:49:31 <laufer> and we have to define what we assume of beeing a dataset...

Carlos Laufer: and we have to define what we assume of beeing a dataset... ←

20:49:57 <newton> yaso: I was talking to annette_g to define some situations that could help us

Yaso Córdova: I was talking to annette_g to define some situations that could help us [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:50:03 <phila> PROPOSED: That we state that the boundaries between metadata, dataset and vocabulary is not always clear, however, we have the following menatl models in mind... and then talk about the three

PROPOSED: That we state that the boundaries between metadata, dataset and vocabulary is not always clear, however, we have the following mentalmodels in mind... and then talk about the three ←

20:50:17 <deirdrelee> s/menatl /mental

20:50:30 <ericstephan> +1

Eric Stephan: +1 ←

20:50:39 <deirdrelee> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

20:50:40 <newton> ... we need to defines the situations before, for instance, we cannot recommend BPs to extract metadata from media files

Unknown newton: ... we need to defines the situations before, for instance, we cannot recommend BPs to extract metadata from media files ←

20:51:01 <newton> ...  we have to recognize are data on the web also, but we don't necessary work on those situations

Unknown newton: ... we have to recognize are data on the web also, but we don't necessary work on those situations ←

20:51:40 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

20:51:43 <yaso> + 1 to phila

+ 1 to phila ←

20:51:45 <newton> ... we can't ignore that, so we can recognize that but not necessary to work on that

Unknown newton: ... we can't ignore that, so we can recognize that but not necessary to work on that ←

20:51:45 <phila> ack SumitPurohit

Phil Archer: ack SumitPurohit ←

20:52:20 <laufer> +1

Carlos Laufer: +1 ←

20:52:26 <newton> SumitPurohit: have we the distinction between vocabularies and metadata

Sumit Purohit: have we the distinction between vocabularies and metadata [ Scribe Assist by Unknown newton ] ←

20:52:35 <SumitPurohit> +1

Sumit Purohit: +1 ←

20:52:38 <annette_g> +1

Annette Greiner: +1 ←

20:52:39 <GiselePappa> +1

Gisele Pappa: +1 ←

20:52:47 <yaso> scribe: yaso

20:52:50 <newton> +1

Unknown newton: +1 ←

20:52:52 <phila> RESOLVED: That we state that the boundaries between metadata, dataset and vocabulary is not always clear, however, we have the following mental models in mind... and then talk about the three

RESOLVED: That we state that the boundaries between metadata, dataset and vocabulary is not always clear, however, we have the following mental models in mind... and then talk about the three ←

20:52:53 <yaso> +1

+1 ←

20:53:10 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←

20:53:51 <phila> action: yaso to add the definitions of dataset, vocabulary and metadata in the glossary, noting that the boundaries are not always distinct (or helpful).

ACTION: yaso to add the definitions of dataset, vocabulary and metadata in the glossary, noting that the boundaries are not always distinct (or helpful). ←

20:53:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Add the definitions of dataset, vocabulary and metadata in the glossary, noting that the boundaries are not always distinct (or helpful). [on Yaso Córdova - due 2015-04-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-154 - Add the definitions of dataset, vocabulary and metadata in the glossary, noting that the boundaries are not always distinct (or helpful). [on Yaso Córdova - due 2015-04-20]. ←

20:54:01 <SumitPurohit> +q

Sumit Purohit: +q ←

20:54:05 <phila> Yaso - I'm happy to help write that

Phil Archer: Yaso - I'm happy to help write that ←

20:54:09 <ericstephan> Thank you all, see you tomorrow!

Eric Stephan: Thank you all, see you tomorrow! ←

20:54:20 <phila> ack SumitPurohit

Phil Archer: ack SumitPurohit ←

20:55:09 <yaso> phila: great! I will appreciate it indeed

Phil Archer: great! I will appreciate it indeed ←

20:55:23 <annette_g> maybe discuss over email?

Annette Greiner: maybe discuss over email? ←

20:55:45 <yaso> phila: I'try to write something today, then you can review as soon as I finish, is that ok for you?

Phil Archer: I'try to write something today, then you can review as soon as I finish, is that ok for you? ←

20:55:49 <Ig_Bittencourt> There is a definition about dataset and vocab in the glossary. So we just need to give a definition to metadata.

Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: There is a definition about dataset and vocab in the glossary. So we just need to give a definition to metadata. ←

20:55:49 <phila> deirdrelee: I'd like to park the conversation about defining the three things or we'll spend endless time discussing it.

Deirdre Lee: I'd like to park the conversation about defining the three things or we'll spend endless time discussing it. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:55:58 <phila> Thanks yaso - that would be great

Phil Archer: Thanks yaso - that would be great ←

20:56:05 <yaso> Nice!

Nice! ←

20:56:10 <phila> Eneergy levels at critical here now I'm afraid

Phil Archer: Eneergy levels at critical here now I'm afraid ←

20:56:43 <yaso> people get too much philosophical when tired

people get too much philosophical when tired ←

20:56:46 <phila> The DCAT definition Dataset is "A collection of data, published or curated by a single agent, and available for access or download in one or more formats."

Phil Archer: The DCAT definition Dataset is "A collection of data, published or curated by a single agent, and available for access or download in one or more formats." ←

20:57:19 <phila> phila: Suggests you have plenty to talk about over dinner in Austin. Please come back with a consensus decision that we can all agree to tomorrow

Phil Archer: Suggests you have plenty to talk about over dinner in Austin. Please come back with a consensus decision that we can all agree to tomorrow [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:57:36 <BernadetteLoscio> ;)

Bernadette Farias Loscio: ;) ←

20:57:37 <ericstephan> Yes I think we need to hit the bars on this one

Eric Stephan: Yes I think we need to hit the bars on this one ←

20:57:38 <phila> deirdrelee: Wraps up the meeting

Deirdre Lee: Wraps up the meeting [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:58:19 <phila> phila: Records thanks to Dee for excellent chairing today

Phil Archer: Records thanks to Dee for excellent chairing today [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

20:58:20 <ericstephan> bye bye

Eric Stephan: bye bye ←

20:58:26 <phila> Night all

Phil Archer: Night all ←

20:58:34 <riccardoAlbertoni> bye, thanks

Riccardo Albertoni: bye, thanks ←

20:58:36 <yaso> Tks, bye, see you tomorrow

Tks, bye, see you tomorrow ←

20:58:44 <Zakim> -Ipswich

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ipswich ←

20:58:47 <phila> zakim, list participants

Phil Archer: zakim, list participants ←

20:58:47 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been [IPcaller], Makx_Dekkers, deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila, giancarlo_guizzardi_, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been [IPcaller], Makx_Dekkers, deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila, giancarlo_guizzardi_, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, ←

20:58:50 <Zakim> ... BernadetteLoscio, giancarlo_guizzardi

Zakim IRC Bot: ... BernadetteLoscio, giancarlo_guizzardi ←

20:59:05 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes

Phil Archer: RRSAgent, generate minutes ←

20:59:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila ←

20:59:35 <phila> zakim, bye

Phil Archer: zakim, bye ←

20:59:35 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were [IPcaller], Makx_Dekkers, deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila, giancarlo_guizzardi_, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso,

Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were [IPcaller], Makx_Dekkers, deirdrelee, Riccardo, phila, giancarlo_guizzardi_, ericstephan, flavio, newton, annette_g, yaso, ←

20:59:38 <Zakim> ... BernadetteLoscio, giancarlo_guizzardi

Zakim IRC Bot: ... BernadetteLoscio, giancarlo_guizzardi ←

20:59:40 <phila> RRSAgent, bye

Phil Archer: RRSAgent, bye ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-actions.rdf : ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: bernadette to  to add a BP for structural metadata [1]

ACTION: bernadette to to add a BP for structural metadata [1] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-24-14

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-24-14 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yaso to include a definition of 'a standard' in the glossary [2]

ACTION: Yaso to include a definition of 'a standard' in the glossary [2] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-57-27

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T13-57-27 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Lee to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki [3]

ACTION: Lee to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki [3] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T14-06-32

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T14-06-32 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Deirdre to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki [4]

ACTION: Deirdre to include the standard resolution in the scope page on the wiki [4] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T14-06-43

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T14-06-43 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: BernadetteLoscio to write to Andrea Perego informing of the new text [5]

ACTION: BernadetteLoscio to write to Andrea Perego informing of the new text [5] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T14-56-27

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T14-56-27 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: antoine to follow up on resolution that Phil proposed [6]

ACTION: antoine to follow up on resolution that Phil proposed [6] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T17-00-29

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T17-00-29 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: antoine to follow up on the resolution re starting with the ODS list, Makx's list etc, working towards FPWD ASAP [7]

ACTION: antoine to follow up on the resolution re starting with the ODS list, Makx's list etc, working towards FPWD ASAP [7] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T17-00-39

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T17-00-39 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: antoine to look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions [8]

ACTION: antoine to look at completeness as one of the quality dimensions [8] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T19-14-41

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T19-14-41 ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: yaso to add the definitions of dataset, vocabulary and metadata in the glossary, noting that the boundaries are not always distinct (or helpful). [9]

ACTION: yaso to add the definitions of dataset, vocabulary and metadata in the glossary, noting that the boundaries are not always distinct (or helpful). [9] ←

20:59:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T20-53-51

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-dwbp-irc#T20-53-51 ←

Formatted by CommonScribe