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14:17:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-irc ←
14:17:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:17:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub ←
14:17:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 43 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 43 minutes ←
14:17:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:17:13 <trackbot> Date: 12 May 2014
14:17:20 <ivan> Chair: Liza daly
14:18:01 <ivan> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014May/0011.html
14:19:57 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
14:19:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
14:21:54 <ivan> Regrets: Vlad
14:22:17 <ivan> Regrets: Philm
14:22:23 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
14:22:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
14:23:03 <ivan> Regrets+ Vlas
Ivan Herman: Regrets+ Vlad ←
14:23:06 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
14:23:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
14:23:21 <ivan> s/Vlas/Vlad/
14:23:41 <ivan> Chair: Liza Daly
14:54:46 <AH_Miller> Mike Miller from Antenna House has joined
(No events recorded for 31 minutes)
Michael Miller: Mike Miller from Antenna House has joined ←
14:55:45 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:55:52 <Zakim> + +1.617.453.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.453.aaaa ←
14:56:00 <Zakim> + +1.240.421.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.240.421.aabb ←
14:56:15 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:56:15 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:56:17 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:56:46 <ivan> zakim, aabb is AH_Miller
Ivan Herman: zakim, aabb is AH_Miller ←
14:56:46 <Zakim> +AH_Miller; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AH_Miller; got it ←
14:56:59 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is Liza
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaaa is Liza ←
14:56:59 <Zakim> +Liza; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Liza; got it ←
14:57:29 <Zakim> + +49.228.36.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.228.36.aacc ←
14:57:37 <Zakim> + +1.617.439.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.439.aadd ←
14:58:00 <ivan> zakim, aacc is pkra
Ivan Herman: zakim, aacc is pkra ←
14:58:00 <Zakim> +pkra; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pkra; got it ←
14:58:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:58:11 <fjh> zakim, ipcaller is me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, ipcaller is me ←
14:58:12 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it ←
14:58:30 <ivan> zakim, aadd is dkaplan3
Ivan Herman: zakim, aadd is dkaplan3 ←
14:58:30 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dkaplan3; got it ←
14:59:01 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
14:59:02 <Zakim> + +1.917.207.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.917.207.aaee ←
14:59:12 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaee is me
Dave Cramer: Zakim, aaee is me ←
14:59:12 <Zakim> +dauwhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe; got it ←
14:59:28 <murakami> zakim, ??P10 is me
Shinyu Murakami: zakim, ??P10 is me ←
14:59:28 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +murakami; got it ←
14:59:33 <ivan> zakim, ??P10 is murakami
Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P10 is murakami ←
14:59:33 <Zakim> I already had ??P10 as murakami, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P10 as murakami, ivan ←
15:00:07 <Zakim> +Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tzviya ←
15:00:15 <dauwhe> Zakim, why have you forgotten us?
Dave Cramer: Zakim, why have you forgotten us? ←
15:00:15 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dauwhe.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, dauwhe. ←
15:00:56 <mgylling> zakim, code?
Markus Gylling: zakim, code? ←
15:00:56 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), mgylling ←
15:00:57 <fjh> zakim, who is your daddy?
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, who is your daddy? ←
15:00:58 <Zakim> Ralph is taking good care of me but you all are my family, fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: Ralph is taking good care of me but you all are my family, fjh ←
15:01:09 <Zakim> + +1.734.904.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.734.904.aaff ←
15:01:10 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> +??P20
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20 ←
15:01:23 <Zakim> + +1.917.447.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.917.447.aagg ←
15:01:24 <ivan> zakim, aaff is Bill_Kasdorf
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaff is Bill_Kasdorf ←
15:01:24 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf; got it ←
15:01:27 <mgylling> zakim, ??P20 is me
Markus Gylling: zakim, ??P20 is me ←
15:01:27 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it ←
15:01:39 <Zakim> + +1.217.244.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.217.244.aahh ←
15:01:43 <Zakim> - +1.217.244.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.217.244.aahh ←
15:01:51 <ivan> zakim, aagg is benjaminsko
Ivan Herman: zakim, aagg is benjaminsko ←
15:01:51 <Zakim> +benjaminsko; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko; got it ←
15:01:54 <Zakim> +duga
Zakim IRC Bot: +duga ←
15:02:09 <Zakim> + +33.1.41.23.aaii
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.1.41.23.aaii ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> +Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert ←
15:02:33 <ivan> zakim, aaii is Luc
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaii is Luc ←
15:02:33 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
15:02:35 <Zakim> + +1.217.244.aajj
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.217.244.aajj ←
15:02:46 <Zakim> + +1.201.783.aakk
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.201.783.aakk ←
15:02:52 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> + +1.585.217.aall
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.585.217.aall ←
15:03:03 <gcapiel> zakim, ??P8 is me
Gerardo Capiel: zakim, ??P8 is me ←
15:03:03 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it ←
15:03:03 <astearns> you can add your number/name here
Alan Stearns: you can add your number/name here ←
15:03:05 <astearns> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
Alan Stearns: http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3 ←
15:03:13 <ivan> zakim, pbelfanti
Ivan Herman: zakim, pbelfanti ←
15:03:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pbelfanti', ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'pbelfanti', ivan ←
15:03:23 <ivan> zakim aajj is pbelfanti
Ivan Herman: zakim aajj is pbelfanti ←
15:03:41 <ivan> zakim, aajj is TimCole
Ivan Herman: zakim, aajj is TimCole ←
15:03:41 <Zakim> +TimCole; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TimCole; got it ←
15:03:47 <david_stroup> 585 - stroup
David Stroup: 585 - stroup ←
15:04:00 <ivan> zakim, 585 is david_stroup
Ivan Herman: zakim, 585 is david_stroup ←
15:04:00 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named '585'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named '585' ←
15:04:11 <ivan> zakim, aaii is david_stroup
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaii is david_stroup ←
15:04:11 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'aaii'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'aaii' ←
15:04:31 <ivan> zakim, aall is david_stroup
Ivan Herman: zakim, aall is david_stroup ←
15:04:32 <Zakim> +david_stroup; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +david_stroup; got it ←
15:04:39 <liza> :(
15:04:48 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, who is here? ←
15:04:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza, AH_Miller, Ivan, pkra, dkaplan3 (muted), fjh, murakami (muted), dauwhe, Tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, Stearns, mgylling, benjaminsko, duga, Luc, Bert, TimCole,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza, AH_Miller, Ivan, pkra, dkaplan3 (muted), fjh, murakami (muted), dauwhe, Tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, Stearns, mgylling, benjaminsko, duga, Luc, Bert, TimCole, ←
15:04:52 <Zakim> ... +1.201.783.aakk, gcapiel, david_stroup
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.201.783.aakk, gcapiel, david_stroup ←
15:04:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see TimCole, pbelfanti, david_stroup, gcapiel, brady_duga, Bill_Kasdorf, Luc, benjaminsko, mgylling, Bert, tzviya, fjh, murakami, liza, AH_Miller, Zakim, RRSAgent,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TimCole, pbelfanti, david_stroup, gcapiel, brady_duga, Bill_Kasdorf, Luc, benjaminsko, mgylling, Bert, tzviya, fjh, murakami, liza, AH_Miller, Zakim, RRSAgent, ←
15:04:52 <Zakim> ... dkaplan3, dauwhe, ivan, pkra, astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss
Zakim IRC Bot: ... dkaplan3, dauwhe, ivan, pkra, astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss ←
15:06:32 <pkra> pkra: introduced himself
Peter Krautzberger: introduced himself [ Scribe Assist by Peter Krautzberger ] ←
15:06:41 <tzviya> welcome Peter!
Tzviya Siegman: welcome Peter! ←
15:07:15 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:07:18 <pkra> dkaplan introduced herself. With Safari books, accessibility expert; both standards, QA, coding side well versed.
Peter Krautzberger: dkaplan introduced herself. With Safari books, accessibility expert; both standards, QA, coding side well versed. ←
15:07:25 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Liza (55%), AH_Miller (42%), dkaplan3 (15%), Bill_Kasdorf (19%)
Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Liza (55%), AH_Miller (42%), dkaplan3 (15%), Bill_Kasdorf (19%) ←
15:07:31 <pkra> liza: approving last week's minutes
Liza Daly: approving last week's minutes [ Scribe Assist by Peter Krautzberger ] ←
15:07:37 <dauwhe> scribenick: pkra
(Scribe set to Peter Krautzberger)
15:07:38 <pkra> ... minutes approved.
... minutes approved. ←
created using i/liza: main/Topic: Content and markup TF/
15:08:10 <pkra> liza: main topic: structural semantics markup group.
Liza Daly: main topic: structural semantics markup group. ←
15:08:23 <pkra> ... table at end, proposing various options for annotating str. semantics.
... table at end, proposing various options for annotating str. semantics. ←
15:08:30 <pkra> ... need something more friendly to OWP.
... need something more friendly to OWP. ←
15:08:35 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/StructuralSemantics
Tzviya Siegman: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/StructuralSemantics ←
15:08:36 <Zakim> +madi
Zakim IRC Bot: +madi ←
15:08:45 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/StructuralSemantics#Approaches:Solution_Criteria_and_Options Table on the criteria
Ivan Herman: -> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/StructuralSemantics#Approaches:Solution_Criteria_and_Options Table on the criteria ←
15:08:50 <pkra> ... wiki was updated.
... wiki was updated. ←
15:09:21 <ivan> i/liza: main/Topic: Content and markup TF/
15:09:46 <pkra> Ivan: summarizing: tried to put smthg for each table.
Ivan Herman: summarizing: tried to put smthg for each table. ←
15:10:00 <pkra> ... AT contract not always clear.
... AT contract not always clear. ←
15:10:09 <pkra> ... my opinion. could be totally wrong.
... my opinion. could be totally wrong. ←
15:10:24 <pkra> ... davidF commetns by email.
... dauwhe commetns by email. ←
15:10:36 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
15:10:37 <dauwhe> s/davidF/dauwhe/
15:10:43 <pkra> ... (correction from pkra: David Cramer?)
... (correction from pkra: David Cramer?) ←
15:11:16 <pkra> tzviya: goal: spelling out _very clearly_ why we want / not want to use these.
Tzviya Siegman: goal: spelling out _very clearly_ why we want / not want to use these. ←
15:11:23 <pkra> ... ex. namespacing.
... ex. namespacing. ←
15:11:53 <pkra> Ivan: let's go through it line by line.
Ivan Herman: let's go through it line by line. ←
15:12:04 <pkra> ... everybody can respond.
... everybody can respond. ←
15:12:28 <pkra> ... namespacing -- current approach in epub.
... namespacing -- current approach in epub. ←
15:12:40 <pkra> ... primary issue: XML specific thing.
... primary issue: XML specific thing. ←
15:12:50 <pkra> ... future is HTML5 w/o x
... future is HTML5 w/o x ←
15:13:02 <Zakim> +Liam
Zakim IRC Bot: +Liam ←
15:13:18 <pkra> ... then namespaces are the either a problem or produce dissent.
... then namespaces are the either a problem or produce dissent. ←
15:14:00 <pkra> ... if HTML5+scripting is the future, then XML namespaces dangerous.
... if HTML5+scripting is the future, then XML namespaces dangerous. ←
15:14:19 <pkra> liza: anyone think moving away from namespaces is a bad choice?
Liza Daly: anyone think moving away from namespaces is a bad choice? ←
15:14:19 <mgylling> q+
Markus Gylling: q+ ←
15:14:29 <ivan> ack tzviya
Ivan Herman: ack tzviya ←
15:14:34 <pkra> davidCramer: what is IDPF's position?
Scribe problem: the name 'davidCramer' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown davidCramer: what is IDPF's position? ←
15:14:35 <ivan> ack mgylling
Ivan Herman: ack mgylling ←
15:14:47 <pkra> mgylling: IDPF is currently doing nothing.
Markus Gylling: IDPF is currently doing nothing. ←
15:15:04 <fjh> q+
Frederick Hirsch: q+ ←
15:15:05 <pkra> ... wants this idea to produce recommendations to inform IDPF.
... wants this idea to produce recommendations to inform IDPF. ←
15:15:20 <Luc> q+
Luc Audrain: q+ ←
15:15:28 <pkra> ... ppl have lots of problems + workaround to avoid/deal with namespaces.
... ppl have lots of problems + workaround to avoid/deal with namespaces. ←
15:15:39 <pkra> ... wait for recommendations from W3C and DPIG
... wait for recommendations from W3C and DPIG ←
15:15:46 <pkra> ... integrate in epub / IDPF standards.
... integrate in epub / IDPF standards. ←
15:16:19 <pkra> ... re first column: AT contract might be a bad choice
... re first column: AT contract might be a bad choice ←
15:16:31 <pkra> ... more whether AT digestion is automatic.
... more whether AT digestion is automatic. ←
15:17:07 <pkra> ... whether existing solutions can deal with it
... whether existing solutions can deal with it ←
15:17:18 <pkra> ... whether existing APIs can already provide.
... whether existing APIs can already provide. ←
15:17:35 <liza> ack fjh
15:17:43 <pkra> Ivan: we don't know w/ they exist
Ivan Herman: we don't know w/ they exist ←
15:18:24 <pkra> ... somebody should happen right away.
... somebody should happen right away. ←
15:18:30 <pkra> Tzviya: I'll take care of it.
Tzviya Siegman: I'll take care of it. ←
15:18:43 <fjh> q+
Frederick Hirsch: q+ ←
15:19:28 <pkra> fjh frederic: @Ivan: a11y not possible with namespaces?
Luc Audrain: @Ivan: a11y not possible with namespaces? ←
15:19:47 <pkra> Ivan: JS developer today will use one of the major libraries (jquery etc)
Ivan Herman: JS developer today will use one of the major libraries (jquery etc) ←
15:20:02 <pkra> ... those tools usually don't test for xhtml anymore.
... those tools usually don't test for xhtml anymore. ←
15:20:23 <pkra> ... risk that future development will tend to not work on xhtml.
... risk that future development will tend to not work on xhtml. ←
15:20:24 <fjh> s/fjh frederic/Luc/
15:20:35 <pkra> (ah, sorry).
(ah, sorry). ←
15:20:58 <ivan> ack Luc
Ivan Herman: ack Luc ←
15:21:06 <liza> ack fjh
15:21:29 <fjh> unmute me
Frederick Hirsch: unmute me ←
15:21:36 <ivan> zakim, unmute fjh
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute fjh ←
15:21:36 <Zakim> fjh was not muted, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: fjh was not muted, ivan ←
15:21:37 <liza> zakim, unmute fjh
Liza Daly: zakim, unmute fjh ←
15:21:38 <Zakim> fjh was not muted, liza
Zakim IRC Bot: fjh was not muted, liza ←
15:21:51 <liza> ack liam
15:21:51 <ivan> ack liza
Ivan Herman: ack liza ←
15:22:02 <fjh> q+
Frederick Hirsch: q+ ←
15:22:15 <pkra> liam: robin's comment at Paris workshop explicitly do not apply to xhtml.
Liam Quin: robin's comment at Paris workshop explicitly do not apply to xhtml. ←
15:22:39 <pkra> ... if you add namespaces, you're going outside polyglott spec
... if you add namespaces, you're going outside polyglott spec ←
15:22:44 <mgylling> q+
Markus Gylling: q+ ←
15:23:18 <pkra> ... don't see Robin's argument as abandoning xhtml.
... don't see Robin's argument as abandoning xhtml. ←
15:23:32 <pkra> Liza: but still true that libraries won't support xhtml.
Liza Daly: but still true that libraries won't support xhtml. ←
15:23:37 <liza> ack markus
15:23:39 <pkra> liam: true.
15:23:46 <ivan> ack fjh
Ivan Herman: ack fjh ←
15:24:31 <pkra> frederick: about the table. what functionality are we looking for?
Frederick Hirsch: about the table. what functionality are we looking for? ←
15:24:38 <ivan> ack mgylling
Ivan Herman: ack mgylling ←
15:24:55 <pkra> mgylling: this is not about serialization. (we might want to discuss this some time)
Markus Gylling: this is not about serialization. (we might want to discuss this some time) ←
15:24:59 <pkra> ... it's about semantic inflection.
... it's about semantic inflection. ←
15:25:08 <pkra> ... we need to do this serialization agnostic.
... we need to do this serialization agnostic. ←
15:25:34 <pkra> ... don't want to use HTML-specific or xHTML-specific ones.
... don't want to use HTML-specific or xHTML-specific ones. ←
15:25:56 <pkra> liza: so third column most important.
Liza Daly: so third column most important. ←
15:26:21 <pkra> Ivan: on to next line in the table: @hyphen
Ivan Herman: on to next line in the table: @hyphen ←
15:26:38 <pkra> ... ppl using `ebook-type`
... ppl using `ebook-type` ←
15:26:50 <pkra> ... existing mechanism
... existing mechanism ←
15:27:03 <pkra> possible to add such attributes, serialization agnostic,
possible to add such attributes, serialization agnostic, ←
15:27:11 <pkra> ... possible to add such attributes, serialization agnostic
... possible to add such attributes, serialization agnostic ←
15:27:21 <mgylling> clear AT contract, no: +1
Markus Gylling: clear AT contract, no: +1 ←
15:27:22 <pkra> ... static provisioning.
... static provisioning. ←
15:27:48 <pkra> ... much like epub right now, just slightly different string.
... much like epub right now, just slightly different string. ←
15:28:18 <pkra> ... one key problem: validators. Any value would need approval HTML5 WG.
... one key problem: validators. Any value would need approval HTML5 WG. ←
15:28:37 <pkra> needs kind of registration-process.
needs kind of registration-process. ←
15:28:44 <pkra> ... needs kind of registration-process.
... needs kind of registration-process. ←
15:29:07 <pkra> ... HTML5WG would look at values "what values are useful in general?"
... HTML5WG would look at values "what values are useful in general?" ←
15:29:11 <pkra> ... would slow down the process.
... would slow down the process. ←
15:29:31 <pkra> liza: how would that be serialized in xhtml?
Liza Daly: how would that be serialized in xhtml? ←
15:29:41 <pkra> ivan: same attribute names.
Ivan Herman: same attribute names. ←
15:29:56 <ivan> ack liza
Ivan Herman: ack liza ←
15:29:59 <ivan> ack liam
Ivan Herman: ack liam ←
15:29:59 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to note that one's own attributes are as far outside "standard HTML" as namespaces
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to note that one's own attributes are as far outside "standard HTML" as namespaces ←
15:30:17 <pkra> liam: as soon as you add your own, then you're going outside the comfortable zone.
Liam Quin: as soon as you add your own, then you're going outside the comfortable zone. ←
15:30:24 <pkra> ... data-* is the natural way.
... data-* is the natural way. ←
15:30:31 <pkra> Ivan: I don't think it's the same issue.
Ivan Herman: I don't think it's the same issue. ←
15:30:38 <pkra> ... yes, data-* more natural.
... yes, data-* more natural. ←
15:31:05 <pkra> ... but @hyphen defined that you can get to these attributes (via JS) just like any other attributes.
... but @hyphen defined that you can get to these attributes (via JS) just like any other attributes. ←
15:31:23 <pkra> ... will be in the DOM, JS can access them through regular DOM calls.
... will be in the DOM, JS can access them through regular DOM calls. ←
15:31:46 <pkra> mgylling: itf-* attributes are an example.
Markus Gylling: ITS 2.0 attributes are an example. ←
15:31:48 <Luc> +q
Luc Audrain: +q ←
15:31:53 <liza> ack luc
15:31:57 <Zakim> - +1.201.783.aakk
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.201.783.aakk ←
15:32:04 <pkra> Luc: wondeirng about openeness.
Luc Audrain: wondeirng about openeness. ←
15:32:07 <tzviya> s/itf-*/ITS 2.0
15:32:13 <tzviya> See http://www.w3.org/TR/its20/ for reference
Tzviya Siegman: See http://www.w3.org/TR/its20/ for reference ←
15:32:24 <pkra> ... with @hyphen we have to get through validation.
... with @hyphen we have to get through validation. ←
15:32:32 <pkra> ... if we put any kind of vocal inside them.
... if we put any kind of vocal inside them. ←
15:32:51 <pkra> Ivan: they should be re-organized body that defines the possible values.
Ivan Herman: they should be re-organized body that defines the possible values. ←
15:33:09 <pkra> ... ex. IDPF could organize that body; shoulnd't be a problem
... ex. IDPF could organize that body; shoulnd't be a problem ←
15:33:19 <pkra> Luc: namespace problem is moved to attributes.
Luc Audrain: namespace problem is moved to attributes. ←
15:33:27 <pkra> Ivan: yes. but agnostic to serialization.
Ivan Herman: yes. but agnostic to serialization. ←
15:33:50 <pkra> Ivan: next in table: RDa / MD
Ivan Herman: next in table: RDa / MD ←
15:33:53 <Luc> moved to attributes values
Luc Audrain: moved to attributes values ←
15:34:03 <pkra> ... the problems: no clear AT contract
... the problems: no clear AT contract ←
15:34:22 <pkra> ... problems: for many considered too complicated for users.
... problems: for many considered too complicated for users. ←
15:34:42 <pkra> ... for authors, conceptionally.
... for authors, conceptionally. ←
15:34:55 <pkra> ... MD more hidden
... MD more hidden ←
15:34:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bill_Kasdorf: q+ ←
15:35:10 <pkra> ... problems: appropriateness.
... problems: appropriateness. ←
15:35:22 <pkra> ... RDFa sensitive to subject.
... RDFa sensitive to subject. ←
15:35:33 <pkra> ... (see last column)
... (see last column) ←
15:36:07 <pkra> ... e.g. concert. MD is about the concert, not the div element holding the description.
... e.g. concert. MD is about the concert, not the div element holding the description. ←
15:36:31 <mgylling> +1
Markus Gylling: +1 ←
15:36:32 <liza> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:36:32 <pkra> ... I think the goal of this table is something else.
... I think the goal of this table is something else. ←
15:36:35 <Luc> +q
Luc Audrain: +q ←
15:36:46 <pkra> Bill: want to emph. that last point.
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bill: want to emph. that last point. ←
15:37:24 <liza> ack Luc
15:37:29 <pkra> ... make that distinction strongly.
... make that distinction strongly. ←
15:37:34 <pkra> Luc: but I think we need both.
Luc Audrain: but I think we need both. ←
15:37:47 <pkra> ... describe document and describe what it's about.
... describe document and describe what it's about. ←
15:37:51 <pkra> Ivan: completely agree.
Ivan Herman: completely agree. ←
15:37:58 <pkra> Bill: agree.
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bill: agree. ←
15:38:25 <pkra> Ivan: only: this table here is not about that.
Ivan Herman: only: this table here is not about that. ←
15:38:35 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
15:38:36 <pkra> ... this is about marking up index etc.
... this is about marking up index etc. ←
15:38:51 <liza> ack dauwhe
15:38:53 <pkra> Bill_K: maybe call it "structural refinement"?
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_K' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bill_K: maybe call it "structural refinement"? ←
15:39:02 <pkra> Luc: that makes more sense.
Luc Audrain: that makes more sense. ←
15:39:16 <pkra> DaveC: si that problem that HTML is not granular enough?
Dave Cramer: si that problem that HTML is not granular enough? ←
15:39:35 <pkra> Ivan: agree.
Ivan Herman: agree. ←
15:39:37 <fjh> +1
Frederick Hirsch: +1 ←
15:39:48 <Luc> +q
Luc Audrain: +q ←
15:39:50 <pkra> +1
+1 ←
15:40:04 <pkra> Luc: understand distinction.
Luc Audrain: understand distinction. ←
15:40:16 <pkra> ... but we could use RDFa appropriately.
... but we could use RDFa appropriately. ←
15:40:58 <pkra> ... why couldn't RDFa not be used to describe the doc itself?
... why couldn't RDFa not be used to describe the doc itself? ←
15:40:59 <mgylling> If Luc is right, why did the ITS2.0 folks not go this route?
Markus Gylling: If Luc is right, why did the ITS2.0 folks not go this route? ←
15:41:30 <pkra> Ivan: technically it could be done. but very technical. You need to give a URI to each DIV element on which you make a statement.
Ivan Herman: technically it could be done. but very technical. You need to give a URI to each DIV element on which you make a statement. ←
15:41:51 <pkra> ... horrendously ugly and complicated
... horrendously ugly and complicated ←
15:41:52 <mgylling> answer: “horrendously ugly”
Scribe problem: the name 'answer' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown answer: “horrendously ugly” [ Scribe Assist by Markus Gylling ] ←
15:42:13 <pkra> .. thats' why IDPF didnt' adopt it either.
.. thats' why IDPF didnt' adopt it either. ←
15:42:33 <pkra> Ivan: @role. much like @hyphen
Ivan Herman: @role. much like @hyphen ←
15:42:43 <pkra> ... but we get into a similar problem.
... but we get into a similar problem. ←
15:42:50 <pkra> ... how would the valures be registered.
... how would the valures be registered. ←
15:43:03 <pkra> ... there's role and sometimes aria-* attributes.
... there's role and sometimes aria-* attributes. ←
15:43:16 <pkra> ... biggest problem imho: registration needed.
... biggest problem imho: registration needed. ←
15:43:32 <pkra> ... would have to go to a11y groups.
... would have to go to a11y groups. ←
15:43:45 <mgylling> +1
Markus Gylling: +1 ←
15:43:56 <pkra> ... while this is partly a a11y technology, it's not directly.
... while this is partly a a11y technology, it's not directly. ←
15:43:59 <mgylling> q+
Markus Gylling: q+ ←
15:44:21 <ivan> ack Luc
Ivan Herman: ack Luc ←
15:44:24 <ivan> ack mgylling
Ivan Herman: ack mgylling ←
15:44:47 <pkra> mgylling: @role: we had some discussions with PF people (Rich Schwartz???).
Markus Gylling: @role: we had some discussions with PF people (Rich Schwartz???). ←
15:45:03 <pkra> ... PF thinking about going beyond AT with @role.
... PF thinking about going beyond AT with @role. ←
15:45:15 <pkra> .. but no guarantee that they will go there.
.. but no guarantee that they will go there. ←
15:45:25 <pkra> ... we need an update on that .
... we need an update on that . ←
15:45:43 <pkra> ... but: only one to get +1 on AT column.
... but: only one to get +1 on AT column. ←
15:45:57 <pkra> ... no need for specialization from AT tech.
... no need for specialization from AT tech. ←
15:46:04 <pkra> ... @role is unique in that.
... @role is unique in that. ←
15:46:13 <pkra> Liza: only advantage over @hyphen?
Liza Daly: only advantage over @hyphen? ←
15:46:20 <pkra> mgylling: no need to create specification.
Markus Gylling: no need to create specification. ←
15:46:29 <pkra> ... easy to get support from validators.
... easy to get support from validators. ←
15:46:35 <pkra> ... maybe.
... maybe. ←
15:46:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bill_Kasdorf: q+ ←
15:46:43 <pkra> Ivan: maybe indeed.
Ivan Herman: maybe indeed. ←
15:46:51 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
15:47:13 <liza> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:47:19 <pkra> ... we'd have to deal with 2 WGs if we go down that route.
... we'd have to deal with 2 WGs if we go down that route. ←
15:47:33 <pkra> BillK: any issues of multiplicity of attribute?
Scribe problem: the name 'BillK' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown BillK: any issues of multiplicity of attribute? ←
15:47:49 <pkra> Ivan: I don't know.
Ivan Herman: I don't know. ←
15:48:24 <pkra> BillK: multiple values for @role attribute (aria + publisher specifics) is that a problem.
Scribe problem: the name 'BillK' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown BillK: multiple values for @role attribute (aria + publisher specifics) is that a problem. ←
15:48:35 <liza> ack tzviya
15:48:36 <pkra> mgylling: no, it already takes care of that.
Markus Gylling: no, it already takes care of that. ←
15:48:42 <pkra> ... in theory anyway.
... in theory anyway. ←
15:49:07 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Summary_of_20140314_Structural_Semantics_Call
Tzviya Siegman: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Summary_of_20140314_Structural_Semantics_Call ←
15:49:08 <Bert> q+ to ask why there are no external formats in the table, e.g., <link rel=glossary href="terms.glossml"> or linked from a manifest file.
Bert Bos: q+ to ask why there are no external formats in the table, e.g., <link rel=glossary href="terms.glossml"> or linked from a manifest file. ←
15:49:11 <pkra> tzviya: a) meeting with Rich. leaning towards @role rather than new spec. => link.
Tzviya Siegman: a) meeting with Rich. leaning towards @role rather than new spec. => link. ←
15:49:22 <pkra> ... personally +1, easier to implement.
... personally +1, easier to implement. ←
15:49:32 <pkra> ... would have to look at the inherit semantics.
... would have to look at the inherit semantics. ←
15:50:06 <pkra> ... can't be introducing contradictions.
... can't be introducing contradictions. ←
15:50:22 <pkra> Ivan: we need (urgently) update from PF working group.
Ivan Herman: we need (urgently) update from PF working group. ←
15:50:27 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is noisy?
Dave Cramer: Zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:50:38 <Zakim> dauwhe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dkaplan3 (23%), Bill_Kasdorf (13%)
Zakim IRC Bot: dauwhe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dkaplan3 (23%), Bill_Kasdorf (13%) ←
15:50:41 <liza> ack Bert
15:50:41 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to ask why there are no external formats in the table, e.g., <link rel=glossary href="terms.glossml"> or linked from a manifest file.
Zakim IRC Bot: Bert, you wanted to ask why there are no external formats in the table, e.g., <link rel=glossary href="terms.glossml"> or linked from a manifest file. ←
15:52:03 <pkra> liza: let's skip @class and @data-*. They're both for different things.
Liza Daly: let's skip @class and @data-*. They're both for different things. ←
15:52:08 <pkra> ... custom elements?
... custom elements? ←
15:52:13 <pkra> ... tackle now?
... tackle now? ←
15:52:42 <pkra> Ivan: is it a sledge hammer?
Ivan Herman: is it a sledge hammer? ←
15:52:48 <liza> <sledgehammer>
15:52:53 <pkra> ... means: we add a new HTML element.
... means: we add a new HTML element. ←
15:53:01 <pkra> (thanks liza)
(thanks liza) ←
15:53:18 <pkra> ... justified for some things (ebooks in general yes)
... justified for some things (ebooks in general yes) ←
15:53:26 <pkra> ... but for this particular problem, it's nuking the problem.
... but for this particular problem, it's nuking the problem. ←
15:53:51 <liza> <slicedbread>
15:54:05 <pkra> mgylling: put it in because it's hailed in some pub tech as the best thing since sliced bread.
Markus Gylling: put it in because it's hailed in some pub tech as the best thing since sliced bread. ←
15:54:30 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
15:54:42 <liza> dauwhe: Ha ha
Dave Cramer: Ha ha [ Scribe Assist by Liza Daly ] ←
15:54:43 <pkra> Ivan: heard it at Edupub, for widgets.
Ivan Herman: heard it at Edupub, for widgets. ←
15:55:10 <pkra> ... great topic in general for the IG.
... great topic in general for the IG. ←
15:55:17 <pkra> ... just not here.
... just not here. ←
15:55:19 <liza> ack tzviya
15:55:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bill_Kasdorf: +1 ←
15:56:00 <Luc> +1
Luc Audrain: +1 ←
15:56:05 <pkra> tzviya: even if we propose "chapter", it would bring up a huge list of elements, most of which would be hard tocommnicate.
Tzviya Siegman: even if we propose "chapter", it would bring up a huge list of elements, most of which would be hard tocommnicate. ←
15:56:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bill_Kasdorf: +1 ←
15:56:17 <pkra> mgylling: has utility for books, but for more complicated ones than this one.
Markus Gylling: has utility for books, but for more complicated ones than this one. ←
15:56:21 <pkra> +1
+1 ←
15:56:59 <pkra> Bert: all of these are in the document itself. Why not external format?
Bert Bos: all of these are in the document itself. Why not external format? ←
15:57:09 <pkra> ... e.g. an XML document to point into the document.
... e.g. an XML document to point into the document. ←
15:57:11 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
15:57:43 <liza> ack dauwhe
15:58:00 <Zakim> -TimCole
Scribe problem: the name 'TimCole' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -TimCole ←
15:58:00 <liza> Zakim you're useless
Liza Daly: Zakim you're useless ←
15:58:22 <pkra> I'm not follwing b/c markus has too much background.
I'm not follwing b/c markus has too much background. ←
15:58:55 <pkra> DaveC: if we add vocabularies, it would be overkill to link to an external file.
Dave Cramer: if we add vocabularies, it would be overkill to link to an external file. ←
15:59:02 <pkra> ... saying this is a chapter.
... saying this is a chapter. ←
15:59:15 <pkra> mgylling: some other ideas for CSS to go beyond styling.
Markus Gylling: some other ideas for CSS to go beyond styling. ←
15:59:38 <pkra> Bert: old idea. Ever since RDFa, CSS has been saying: that's just what CSS does.
Bert Bos: old idea. Ever since RDFa, CSS has been saying: that's just what CSS does. ←
16:00:06 <pkra> Ivan: technically I can see something like CSS selector used for that; relatively simple.
Ivan Herman: technically I can see something like CSS selector used for that; relatively simple. ←
16:00:14 <pkra> ... but still needs some hooks into the HTML text itself.
... but still needs some hooks into the HTML text itself. ←
16:00:21 <pkra> ... no real win
... no real win ←
16:00:21 <Zakim> -Liam
Zakim IRC Bot: -Liam ←
16:00:42 <pkra> Bert: maybe not all use cases. But some things, like glossary.
Bert Bos: maybe not all use cases. But some things, like glossary. ←
16:00:53 <pkra> liza: and we're out of time.
Liza Daly: and we're out of time. ←
16:01:05 <pkra> ivan: pick up w/ next steps.
Ivan Herman: pick up w/ next steps. ←
16:01:09 <Zakim> -duga
Zakim IRC Bot: -duga ←
16:01:11 <Zakim> -Liza
Zakim IRC Bot: -Liza ←
16:01:13 <Zakim> -mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling ←
16:01:14 <Zakim> -madi
Zakim IRC Bot: -madi ←
16:01:14 <Zakim> -fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh ←
16:01:16 <Zakim> -pkra
Zakim IRC Bot: -pkra ←
16:01:16 <Zakim> -Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tzviya ←
16:01:16 <Zakim> -david_stroup
Zakim IRC Bot: -david_stroup ←
16:01:16 <Zakim> -gcapiel
Zakim IRC Bot: -gcapiel ←
16:01:16 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:01:17 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:01:17 <Zakim> -AH_Miller
Zakim IRC Bot: -AH_Miller ←
16:01:17 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
Scribe problem: the name 'dkaplan3' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -dkaplan3 ←
16:01:19 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:01:19 <Zakim> -Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bert ←
16:01:19 <Zakim> -dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -dauwhe ←
16:01:22 <Zakim> -murakami
Zakim IRC Bot: -murakami ←
16:01:25 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Scribe problem: the name 'Bill_Kasdorf' does not match any of the 70 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:02:17 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:02:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
16:02:27 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
16:02:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see benjaminsko ←
16:02:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see madi, pbelfanti, gcapiel, Luc, benjaminsko, Bert, tzviya, murakami, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, ivan, pkra, astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see madi, pbelfanti, gcapiel, Luc, benjaminsko, Bert, tzviya, murakami, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, ivan, pkra, astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss ←
16:02:33 <Zakim> -benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: -benjaminsko ←
16:02:35 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended ←
16:02:35 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.453.aaaa, +1.240.421.aabb, Ivan, AH_Miller, Liza, +49.228.36.aacc, +1.617.439.aadd, pkra, fjh, dkaplan3, +1.917.207.aaee, dauwhe, murakami, Tzviya,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.617.453.aaaa, +1.240.421.aabb, Ivan, AH_Miller, Liza, +49.228.36.aacc, +1.617.439.aadd, pkra, fjh, dkaplan3, +1.917.207.aaee, dauwhe, murakami, Tzviya, ←
16:02:35 <Zakim> ... +1.734.904.aaff, Stearns, +1.917.447.aagg, Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, +1.217.244.aahh, benjaminsko, duga, +33.1.41.23.aaii, Bert, Luc, +1.217.244.aajj, +1.201.783.aakk,
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.734.904.aaff, Stearns, +1.917.447.aagg, Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, +1.217.244.aahh, benjaminsko, duga, +33.1.41.23.aaii, Bert, Luc, +1.217.244.aajj, +1.201.783.aakk, ←
16:02:35 <Zakim> ... +1.585.217.aall, gcapiel, TimCole, david_stroup, madi, Liam
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.585.217.aall, gcapiel, TimCole, david_stroup, madi, Liam ←
16:02:52 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
Ivan Herman: trackbot, end telcon ←
16:02:52 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:02:52 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is ←
16:03:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:03:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-dpub-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:03:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:03:01 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe