See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 20 December 2013
<Alan_> connection was dropped
<scribe> scribe: jeanne
<KimPatch> take up next
<KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
KW: We have a lot of resources identified on the wiki. It is great to see such a great collection of resources.
<Alan_> I think I have all my resources added.
KW: does anyone have more resources to add?
Jeanne has more to add
JR: I added some this morning. I noticed that there are a lot of duplicates
KP: I'll remove the duplicates
KW: I have had a lot of people
ask if this resource list will be available to the
public.
... the wiki is public, so anyone who knows the URI can read
it
... one idea is to turn this list into a web page that could be
a deliverable under this task force.
... what else do we need to do to this list to make it a
valuable resource
<KimPatch> ACTION: Kim to remove duplicates on Mobile Resources page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Remove duplicates on mobile resources page [on Kimberly Patch - due 2013-12-27].
JR: This is a good list today, but over time there will be link-rot and it will become less valuable. Maybe we don't have to declare it as a deliverable and then not have the weight
Alan: There may be copyright issues from the W3C perspective?
JS: We can link to anything without copyright issues, but we may want to make sure that we want to link to it, because it will seem to people like an endorsement.
Alastair: There may be vendor
issues. It needs to be well rounded
... check with the vendors to see if they have resources that
they would want to include.
JR: I think there will be equal amounts of iOS and Android platform support.
KW: Please go through the list of resources and be familiar with the information that is out there. We will be leveraging them
KW: We started talking about the needs in the industry for mobile accessibility. This will tie into the deliverables to identify the holes that need to be filled.
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility_Challenges
KW: we last talked about
challenges and had people put info in the wiki
... read through that list and see what other missing
information needs to be there for mobile applications and
mobile web sites in an accessible way.
<Alan_> going to drop call and redail in with another phone.
JS: I think we should make a list of 3rd party coding tools available so that we can start doing outreach to those companies
KW: I have some contacts and I will add them to the wikis
Alastair: Development for separate platform, and identification of what the features of the different mobile platform are, so people can make good choices.
KW: Do you choose the website or the application, is also a decision.
Alastair: Chromephone is being developed to also run on windows, which I htink is a precursor to enabling it to run on multiple platforms
JR: It may be there under OS
issues. A lot of accessibility features are built into the
platform itself. And sometimes they are in browser. Pinch zoom
for example could be in the browser, or can be at the platform
level.
... if black on white reverse is set in both the browser and
the platform, it can cancel each other out.
<agarrison> Correction to Alistair line above: Chrome apps are being positioned to run on windows, and most probably Chromephone or Chrometab...
JR: the browsers may want to
implement things ahead. When do you remove a feature that has
been put into the OS?
... it's another area of challenge
KP: It's feature conflict.
Alan: We have the experience of
3rd party suppliers that make our apps. The web pages are good,
but the mobile apps are terrible. The 3rd party suppliers say
that there are no standards for mobile, so they feel that WCAG
doesn't apply to mobile devices, and therefore they don't have
to do it.
... the developers don't have guidelines to code
... we are trying to develop it internally.
... if they do a custom popup, is it supposed to read every
item, or read the first item and stop?
... if they use 3rd party development tools that create apps
across multiple platforms, they don't support accessiblity
features.
KW: Do you have a list of 3rd part development tools?
Alan: I can make a list.
Alastair: Lack of call from
disability groups for mobile apps to be made accessible. That
lack of call from the market, makes vendors think there is no
need.
... we should ask disability groups to give input into this
task force
... there are a lot of tech people who assess things. Perhaps
@@ would be interested in getting involved.
... they don't seem to be driving the market.
KW: I think we have seen a big
increase in the number of companies paying attention to
websites, but mobile accessibility doesn't seem to be
there.
... there are a few in the US that have included mobile.
... there isn't a lot of data on mobile use on people with
disabilities.
... the groups could put more information on the use of mobile
by PWD.
JR: The WCAG2ICT document shows how WCAG applies to mobile, and then add techniquees
AS: It seems to be a challenge to get it into the mindsets of people.
JS: Perhaps a deliverable of "WCAG Applies to Mobile" with examples of how WCAG applies to mobile and then move toward writing deliverables.
KW: I like that idea. Also look at Easy Checks are popular, writing something easy to read that we could promote.
ALan: I like it
<Alan_> reconnecting
KP: I think one of the problems is lack of call from disability groups, I think some of the groups have been repeatedly disappointed. If we can get people excited, I think they will participate.
<Alan_> 3rd party app development vendors: XBOSoft and Embarcadero are the two I'm tracking
KW: I think collecting stories of how people use mobile devices would really help. I still hear people say "A blind person can't use a touch screen"
<agarrison> +1 for personas for people with disabilities using mobiles etc
Alan: I know a blind manager of software development. Also a teacher who trains other teachers how to use devices for blind users.
KW: We also said designs and best
practices for mobile
... WCAG 2.0 and How it Applies to Mobile
... Personas for Mobile
... WCAG Techniques for Mobile and Mobile Apps
... are there other deliverables we should add to this
list?
KP: I like the Personas for Mobile. Could we make it more real for people?
KW: I make video clips of users and bring it into training classes. What if we got quotes from PWD using mobile, maybe a short clip into a video persona?
KP: I think you could get people to see the problem instead of telling them about the problem
AG: 10 years ago WAI and RNIB created a DVD showing real people with accessibility problems.
<Jan_> BTW: The videos are more watchable when there's some humour: e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzah0A6IC5o
AG: Judy Brewer was in it. She was brilliant. I still show it people.
KW: Best Practices: Do we need things that go beyond the Techniques?
<KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/charter
KW: if I look back, I see different issues with mobile devices and laptops. Are there things that would go beyond Techniques of WCAG?
Alan: I've looked at Mobile Web Best Practices.
KW: It is dated. Do you think we should update it?
<KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/work-statement
AG: It's dated July 2008. I think
there are functionalities that didn't exist in 2008.
... and it is still oritented toward mobile web and not mobile
apps.
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
<agarrison> Websites that Work DVD from RNIB, with input from WAI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwOob9cK7oA
<agarrison> DVD from 1999
<Jan_> Here is the WCAG2 for non-Web ICT doc: www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/
KW: I think we have a good start on the list of deliverables.
Kathleen: I have a contact on the Windows8 mobile team, and I was wondering about where you draw the line on the mobile devices. Maybe the Surface should be another device.
KW: It is worth collecting the resources
Kathleen: I will ask him about someone on the Surface team.
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/List_of_mobile_assistive_technologies,_and_the_capabilities_and_limitations
Alastair: I foundthe DVD on
Youtube and put the link in IRC.
... I made some progress on my action item
... when I see a closed platform there aren't a lot of tools to
make things better, then I see an open platform with a lot of
tools developed.
KW: That's going to be a big help.
KP: I'll put another category on the wiki to plug that info in.
KW: That is a great start.
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/
http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
<KimPatch> ACTION: Alan Smith to put a list of third-party development tools in Mobile Resources wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Smith to put a list of third-party development tools in mobile resources wiki [on Alan Smith - due 2013-12-27].
<KimPatch> ACTION: Kathleen to contact Windows phone and surface for resources input [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> 'Kathleen' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., spiderwebwoman, kwahlbin).
KW: Next Meeting January 10. Happy holidays
<KimPatch> ACTION: Kathleen_Anderson to contact Windows phone and surface for resources input [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Kathleen_Anderson'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users>.
<KimPatch> ACTION: KathleenA to contact Windows phone and surface for resources input [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Contact windows phone and surface for resources input [on Kathleen Anderson - due 2013-12-27].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Alan: I found /Alastair: I found/ Found Scribe: jeanne Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne Default Present: Kim_Patch, jeanne, alistair, Kathleen_Anderson, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jan, +1.704.877.aaaa, Alan, Alan_Smith Present: Kim_Patch jeanne alistair Kathleen_Anderson Kathy_Wahlbin Jan +1.704.877.aaaa Alan Alan_Smith Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2013Dec/0002.html Found Date: 20 Dec 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: alan kathleen kathleen_anderson kathleena kim smith[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]