W3C

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

12 Nov 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
David_MacDonald, Joshue, +1.703.825.aaaa, [Microsoft], Bruce_Bailey, Peter_Thiessen, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, James_Nurthen
Regrets
Chair
Joshue
Scribe
Bruce

Contents


<Joshue108> Scribenick: Bruce

Survey for 12th of November https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/

Feedback on updated Techniques 5th November 2013

1. [Start here on 12th Nov] Updated review of F65: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to omitting the alt attribute on img elements, area elements, and input elements of type image

<bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results#x2673

<bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results#xtechsc2

4. Draft response to comment LC-2863: G73 – Providing a long description in another location with a link […]

<bbailey> RESOLUTION: Accept as proposed

<Joshue108> 3. Updated technique Using the group role to identify related form controls

3. Updated technique Using the group role to identify related form controls

<bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results#x2663

<bbailey> Discussed last week

<bbailey> Some clean up happened

<bbailey> Salish took action item to rework a bit last week

<bbailey> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_group_role_to_identify_related_form_controls

<bbailey> Edit included updated title

<bbailey> Screen reader behavior for group and radio group is the same

<bbailey> Salish discussses some previous issues with validation on using radio group, but this is not an issue now

<bbailey> Updated title of techniques is http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_group_role_to_identify_related_form_controls

<Joshue108> New title "Using grouping roles to identify related form controls when using fieldset-legend is not practical"

<bbailey> Discus wiki mechanics for rename...

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls_when_using_fieldset-legend_is_not_practical

<bbailey> Discus that additional example with custom code example is desireable

<bbailey> See Salish's “Suggested Example 3” in survey response

<Peter_Thiessen> Are we avoiding classes so the code is self contained?

<bbailey> Accept color edit suggestion from Kathy

<bbailey> ACTION: David to add example 3 from Salish, see email to list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dmacdona, dtodd2).

<bbailey> ACTION: dmacdona to add example 3 from Salish, see email to list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-230 - Add example 3 from salish, see email to list [on David MacDonald - due 2013-11-19].

<Joshue108> http://mars.dequecloud.com/demo/form-markup.htm#tech6

<bbailey> Salish will replicate color change to hosted sample code

<Joshue108> Updated review of F38: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to not marking up decorative images or applets in HTML in a way that allows assistive technology to ignore them

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results

<bbailey> leaving open until example 3 done

<bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results#x2673

1. [Start here on 12th Nov] Updated review of F65: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to omitting the alt attribute on img elements, area elements, and input elements of type image

<bbailey> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Aria-Edit:_F65:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.1.1_due_to_omitting_the_alt_attribute_on_img_elements,_area_elements,_and_input_elements_of_type_image

. Updated review of F38: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to not marking up decorative images or applets in HTML in a way that allows assistive technology to ignore them

<bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results#x2652

<Joshue108> F38: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to not marking up decorative images or applets in HTML in a way that allows assistive technology to ignore them

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/F38:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.1.1_due_to_not_marking_up_decorative_images_or_applets_in_HTML_in_a_way_that_allows_assitive_technology_to_ignore_them

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/F38:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.1.1_due_to_not_marking_up_decorative_images_or_applets_in_HTML_in_a_way_that_allows_Assistive_technology_to_ignore_them

<bbailey> Discus and incorporated edits from Andrew Kirkpatrick

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/F38:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.1.1_due_to_not_marking_up_decorative_images_or_applets_in_HTML_in_a_way_that_allows_Assistive_technology_to_ignore_them#Description

<Peter_Thiessen> +1 remove

<bbailey> Andrew comments accepted

<bbailey> RESOLUTION: Accept as amended

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/F38:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.1.1_due_to_not_marking_up_decorative_images_in_HTML_in_a_way_that_allows_Assistive_technology_to_ignore_them

<Joshue108> Updated review of F65: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to omitting the alt attribute on img elements, area elements, and input elements of type image

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Aria-Edit:_F65:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.1.1_due_to_omitting_the_alt_attribute_on_img_elements,_area_elements,_and_input_elements_of_type_image

1. [Start here on 12th Nov] Updated review of F65: Failure of Success Criterion 1.1.1 due to omitting the alt attribute on img elements, area elements, and input elements of type image

<bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results#x2673

<bbailey> Discuss is “pass” == “not fail”

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#alt

<bbailey> Discuss that it is very sensitive and controversial to allow any alternative to alt attribute

<bbailey> Discuss that failures are very strong, so that if accessibility support is good for alternatives to alt, failure for any missing of alt may be too much

<bbailey> Issue is test procedure

<bbailey> Discuss that issue is test procedure

<Joshue108> So it seems to me that the test procedure as outlined here is a bone of contention.

<bbailey> Discussion that ARIA provides other mechanism for associating alternative text with images and other elements

<bbailey> Discussion that allowing pure ARIA approach would support ARIA uptake

<Joshue108> +q

<bbailey> Discussion and agreement that technique represents larger issue, and cannot be discussed in isolation

<Joshue108> ack 703

<Joshue108> ack 825.a

<bbailey> Discussion that practical support for title attribute evolved from work on ARIA spec

<bbailey> Discussion that allowing parallel alternative to alt is a big change

<bbailey> Discussion that allowing multiple choices actually increases cost

<bbailey> Discussion that historically we have not allowed title as sufficient

<Zakim> Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to say missed salishes comment

<bbailey> Discuss that title support remains dependent on user agent support

<bbailey> Discuss that hover-text different than accessibility supported

<bbailey> Discuss that requiring alt could change for HTML 5 specific

<bbailey> Discus issue where null alt could contradict ARIA values

<Joshue108> ack .aaa

<Joshue108> ack .aaaa

<bbailey> Discuss that failures are used as anti-checklist in actual practice

<bbailey> Discuss that prohibiting things that are actually accessibility in practice is also a bad precedent

<Peter_Thiessen> Sorry to run, have to run to another meeting.

<bbailey> Discuss if img src missing, only alt provides alternative in default UA behavior

<bbailey> Discuss if img block behavior is comparable to accessibility supported

<bbailey> Discuss AT support for ALT alternative for other AT besides screen readers

<bbailey> Discuss historically uneven support for title attribute

<bbailey> Discuss if we might just focus on test proceedure

<bbailey> ack

<bbailey> Discuss that validity and html 5/4 not the issue

<bbailey> Discuss relate this discussion to controversy over requiring validity (or not)

<bbailey> Discuss that attributes in technique listed hierarchical by parsing tree, not human precedence

<bbailey> Discuss that we could use wider input, but question would need to be carefully crafted

<bbailey> Leave open

<Joshue108_> [Next Week 19th Start here] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Aria-Edit:_F65:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.1.1_due_to_omitting_the_alt_attribute_on_img_elements,_area_elements,_and_input_elements_of_type_image

<Joshue108_> Institutional Memory collection not discussed this week

Institutional Memory Exercise https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/InstM12112013/

<Joshue108_> Can everyone please look at the Institutional memory question on the survey

<bbailey> Discuss that ARIA labeled-by is well supported, is as easy a developer rule as alt

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: David to add example 3 from Salish, see email to list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: dmacdona to add example 3 from Salish, see email to list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]
 
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Default Present: David_MacDonald, Joshue, +1.703.825.aaaa, [Microsoft], Bruce_Bailey, Peter_Thiessen, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, James_Nurthen
Present: David_MacDonald Joshue +1.703.825.aaaa [Microsoft] Bruce_Bailey Peter_Thiessen Marc_Johlic Kathy_Wahlbin James_Nurthen

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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

Got date from IRC log name: 12 Nov 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: david dmacdona

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