W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines

17 Sep 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.978.261.aabb, +1.978.443.aacc, Peter_Korn, Kathy, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, +1.703.861.aadd, AWK, Cherie, Katie, Kerstin
Regrets
Loretta
Chair
Joshue
Scribe
david

Contents


<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-cognitive-a11y-tf.html

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/imageadvice/

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGTechs20130910/

<scribe> scribe:david

1) Review of Cognitive task force work statement

<scribe> SCRIBE: David

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-cognitive-a11y-tf.html****

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-cognitive-a11y-tf.html

typo: were vs. where in objective section

PK: bulk of objective should it not be surveying and examining the space... obj. says developing guidelines, but none of the other sections talk about that...

<AWK> Inn cognitive objective - "guidelines" is supposed to be removed. This TF is not producing Guidelines

AWK: scope is more accurate ... objective should not include guidelines...

Josh: gap analysis is what it is about.

PK: concerned about "Building a business case, identification of resistance, risks and opportunities. " sounds too political

<AWK> Peter, do you think that the whole bullet needs to be removed or just change "resistance" to "challenges"?

<Joshue> +q

Katie: agree about political stuff... agree should not be about... important work just need clarity

<Ryladog_> +1

PK: like katie's comment about one thing helpful to some PWD may hurt others, we need to call this out...
... clarification of understanding document... good

<korn> AWK, I think it is best removed, but would would certainly entertain suggested edits.

PK wary of the word guidline, because similar to WCAG language on guidelines

<korn> David - I'm wary of the word "guidance", as it is simlar to "guideline"

Josh: agree on overlapping techniques, noting that, conflicts and common helpful things

<Joshue> -q

Katie: all techniques would fall under existing SCs, identifying soecific target group

s/soecfic/specific

<korn> Katie - I would like to see language more like "may suggest changes/improvements and develop new techniques for EXISTING WCAG 2.0 SCs"

Katie: draw attention to help a disability vs, it being a distraction, spacing of text...

<AWK> Perhaps to bullet "Gathering information on different related technologies and techniques." add "including where techniques in support of cognitive and learning disabled users may conflict with what is needed for other users"

PK: tietac work Dr. Clayton Lewis pointed out that hiding complexity in UI, only showing menu optons as they get used is very helpful for some... but users who expect something to be in a particular order may find it difficult...
... need flexibility of design... but that is hard to test, and write a guideline for
... when do you know when to hide and show... can't test... is there a set of advices a level below a technique, non testable non conformable best practice advice, a level below AAA, that might be productive

Katie: new phone, easy button, simplifies the UI...
... not as broad and scary ... just because something is difficult doesn't mean don't do it... let's just fix language..

PK: clearly scope is... soping to exisitng sc,

<Ryladog> +1 to David not allocating to AAA only

<Joshue> +1 from me also

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say scope shouldn´t be limited to existing SC, because it´s part of exploration of potential new formal guidance, but any deliverables beyond use cases

MC: shouldn't limit to existing SC, because we are looking at future versions. if it were to propose techniques they would have to map to existing, or wait for future WCAG version

Josh: agree that AAA gets ignored

David: concerned about relegating to lower than AAA...

PK: not AAAA but rather just not testable techniques

<Ryladog_> test

MC: our charter is that we look at the future, goes in effect soon, does not permit us to do formal rec track guidance... but we will do gap analysis etc..
... we may recharter to do new guidelines

AWK: want to focus back on key

<MichaelC> Draft WCAG charter

question

AWK WCAg want to be part of this? as a joint TR, and do we have resources...

Katie: Expect Lisa has contacts to help

MJ: there are just a few involved with WAI ARIA and Mobile is coming up... feeling split...

Josh: michael... it is allowed either as joint or separate, which would be less involvement... maybe throwing stuff over the wall...
... but we should be included

Cathy: if not joint can we join, and if they do techniues should we not be involved

Josh: is there any objections to this being a joint tast force

<korn> No objection

Kertin: already written my concerns... worried about non testable techniques

Kerstin: is it in our scope

RESOLUTION: we accept that this will be joint task force between the PF and WCAG

Josh: we all have concern but the is energy and enthusiasm

Katie: may be able to be testable

PK: support it being Joint... but odd that primary initiator is PF it is not at the protocol level but rather at the level of the content that is best or Cognitive
... don't want it explicit that they are non testable...

<Joshue> +q

AWK: we have a good opportunity to engage early... and dig into techniques early...

MC: advisory vs sufficient techniques... don't generally take trouble to write up advisory techniques... testability not a show stopper just how we handle them...

<Joshue> "In the same sprit the task force expect to produces some testable authoring techniques, but we are also expecting to produce techniques that are advisory."

Josh: concerned about non testable... maybe advisory

<MichaelC> (*sufficient* techniques have to be testable but advisory ones can be non-testable)

2) Response to question from HTML accessibility TF

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/imageadvice/

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to ask David if he feels that the star example would not meet 1.1.1

<Joshue> zaki, queue?

at AWK ... i don't think it does... it at least an awkward fit

4) Mobile A11y and WCAG TF: Further Discussion

<AWK> I'll redial

<AWK> I just wanted to say that Steve said that if we have bugs/comments on the specific text in the 4.8.1.1 that they get logged as bugs

<AWK> redialing

MC: Mobility task force... going to UAAG, we haven't talked about it, need to pass resolution.

<AWK> Sorry, I neglected to add the URI for the Mobile TF to the agenda

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-mobile-a11y-tf

<MichaelC> UAWG minutes approving Joint TF on Mobile

MC: Joint task force UAAG and WCAG on Mobile
... we haven't voted yet

<Ryladog> Can someone resubmit that URL, as I was kickedout again and missed it?

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/draft-mobile-a11y-tf

Josh: let's vote

<Ryladog> ty

PK: concerned about hours... on TF

<Joshue> typo on "Mobile Accessibility Task Force will also coordinate with the Protocls and Formats Working Group, "

MC: Task force work counts towards good standing of WCAG... w3c culture moving toward mailing lists as valuable... have to manage your own time... 2 task forces, reasonable total time adding up to reasonable amount...
... we can add it to the home page

<MichaelC> ACTION: cooper to clarify on WCAG home page that participation in TFs counts to overall WG participation expectations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-217 - Clarify on wcag home page that participation in tfs counts to overall wg participation expectations [on Michael Cooper - due 2013-09-24].

<Alands> I would be interested in participation in the Mobile Accessibility Task Force. Not sure what the official method is for requesting as such.

RESOLUTION: we are Joint sponsors of the mobility task force

<Ryladog> testing

<MichaelC> WCAG WG Task Forces

Task forces we belong to now Cognitive, mobility, Evaluation methodology , WAI ARIA, test samples, WCAT2ICT closing

3) WCAG review of Techniques Task Force: ARIA techniques for 10 September 2013

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGTechs20130910/

<Ryladog> q

<Joshue> DMacD: Was talking with SteveF, he's concerned about where text alternatives are duplicated, an images non-conforming in HTML5 without @alt unless in a figure element.

<AWK> ACTION on AWK to make suggestions on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls and http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_provide_a_text_alternative_for_non-text_content

<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.

<Joshue> DMacD: There are other concerns.

<AWK> ACTION AWK to make suggestions on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls and http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_provide_a_text_alternative_for_non-text_content

<trackbot> Created ACTION-218 - Make suggestions on http://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls and http://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_aria-labelledby_to_provide_a_text_alternative_for_non-text_content [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2013-09-24].

<Joshue> ack

<Alands> oops, hit the end button as I put my iPhone in my pocket. Usability issue.

test am I still i irc

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: cooper to clarify on WCAG home page that participation in TFs counts to overall WG participation expectations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
 
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-09-17 16:35:43 $

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FAILED: s/soecfic/specific/
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Found Scribe: david
Inferring ScribeNick: David
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Default Present: +1.978.261.aabb, +1.978.443.aacc, Peter_Korn, Kathy, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, +1.703.861.aadd, AWK, Cherie, Katie, Kerstin
Present: +1.978.261.aabb +1.978.443.aacc Peter_Korn Kathy David_MacDonald Marc_Johlic +1.703.861.aadd AWK Cherie Katie Kerstin
Regrets: Loretta
Got date from IRC log name: 17 Sep 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: cooper

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