W3C

- DRAFT -

WCAG WG

27 Aug 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
David_MacDonald, +1.704.877.aaaa, Joshue, Alan_Smith, Loretta, AWK, Peter_Korn, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, Kerstin, Gregg_Vanderheiden, [Microsoft], Cherie
Regrets
Kathy_Wahlbin, James_Nurthen, Bruce_Bailey
Chair
Joshue
Scribe
Loretta

Contents


""zakim, IPCaller is Loretta

Andrew, I already got it.

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html

<kerstin> zakim who is on the line

Last Public Comments https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130827LastPublicComments/?

ULTIMATE !!! Survey from the WCAG2ICT Taskforce https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/UltimateWTI/?

<scribe> Scribe: Loretta

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/UltimateWTI/?

<kerstin> thanks loretta

<Joshue> Items 1,2, 6,7, any objection?

Resolution: accept as proposed: LC-2819, LC-2820, LC-2827, Editorial Comments Plus

<Joshue> LC-2821 Set of Documents

Michael: clarification given to commenter would be useful to any reader. Suggest adding part of the response to the document itself.

<korn> http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/#keyterms

<David> +1

<korn> "Terms defined and used in WCAG2ICT are applicable only to the interpretation of the guidance in this document. The particular definitions should not be interpreted as having applicability to situations beyond the scope of WCAG2ICT."

Resolution: accepted as amended

<Joshue> LC-2822 Set of Software

<greggvanderheiden> I am here and can hear but cannot talk

<greggvanderheiden> am in faculty retreat

<greggvanderheiden> See my comment

<greggvanderheiden> correct

^accepted^C-2821 accepted

Resolutino: LC-2822 accepted as amended

Resolution: LC-2822 accepted as amended

<greggvanderheiden> did you ask me a question?

LC-2823 Conformance

<greggvanderheiden> and I changed the response to make this clear

Resolution: LC-2823 accepted as proposed

<greggvanderheiden> I agree.

<greggvanderheiden> I think the editors can read it -- and if anyone else would like to

<greggvanderheiden> they would be welcome as well.

<greggvanderheiden> but no need to run back through committee

<greggvanderheiden> +1 to Josh

<greggvanderheiden> Do we need to formally close the task force?

<greggvanderheiden> or does it just sit open?

<greggvanderheiden> or maybe 3 months -- in case a question arises

<greggvanderheiden> after publication

<greggvanderheiden> no need to re-create it

<korn> +1 to Gregg. Suspended animation for now I think.

<korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/final-edits-to-wcag2ict

<greggvanderheiden> Special thanks is due to Peter for all the edit tracking he did

Resolution: WG approves WCAG2ICT, with the approved edits, for final publication as a Working Group Note.

<greggvanderheiden> we could not have done it without him

<greggvanderheiden> And a note to the WCAG2ICT chairs !

Last Public Comments https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130827LastPublicComments/?

LC-2791

<Joshue> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page description example

<Joshue> +q

David raises concern about screen readers not stopping at the end of the description.

Andrew says that the description highlights this drawback, and says that it also applies to descriptions on a separate page, e.g., some people want to put several long descriptions on the same (alternate) page.

Josh: can't screen reader users navigate such a page using normal navigation mechanisms like headings?

<David> http://davidmacd.com/test/longdesc.html

Andrew: yes, but the author needs to provide that structure on the page to help the user sort out the different parts.

David: testing shows that AT doesn't support just using a hashtag, but requires the entire URL.

<Joshue> +q

David: if the full uri is provide, however, the page will also reload. (Note: testing on IE with JAWS)

Andrew: my testing shows that just the hashtag works with Firefox but not for IE. We should update the example to use the entire uri.

Resolution: LC-2791 accepted as amended.

<Joshue> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/2013May/0008.html

<Joshue> Lets look at this..

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/

<aland> Need to drop in 5 mins

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/complete.html#uc-levels-head

<AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/#uc-levels-head is broken (from QuickRef)

The Success Criteria were assigned to one of the three levels of conformance, levels A, AA, and AAA, by the working group after taking into consideration a wide range of interacting issues. Some of the common factors evaluated when setting the level included:

<aland> Thank you everyone, great to meet you and I'll be on the call next week as well. Great work effort and good teamwork. Regards

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120103/2828

https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120103/2828

LC-2828 added to catch one overlooked public comment. Response drafted, but this will be left open.

RESOLUTION: Work Group approves publication of updated Understanding and Techniques documents with the changes approved.

Since this was not on the survey, there will also be a standing call to the mailing list for any objections to publication.

<MichaelC> expiring this Friday

<Joshue> WCAG review of 'Headings using role="heading"' technique

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAG_Aug20_2013/results#x2690 'Headings using role="heading"'

<Joshue> LGR: AWK and I spoke about this, there were originally examples here that used ARIA in place of HTML headers.

<Joshue> LGR: These may set a bad example.

<Joshue> LGR: That leaves us with these kind of examples.

<Joshue> LGR: There may be a page you are trying to retrofit.

<Joshue> DMacD: The use of nested articiles in HTML is an issue, JAWS gets the correct hierarchy wrong.

<Joshue> DMacD: Gez wrote about this.

<David> http://juicystudio.com/article/html5-outline-algorithm-jaws.php

Andres: can you use heading without level?

Josh: I guess you could.
... if you use role heading with a level, does the AT ascribe an arbitrary level?

Loretta: is there a heading element with no level? I thought HTML5 used to contain this, but I haven't been tracking it.

David: I think the current model is that the hierarchy restarts in each container.

<David> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#heading-content

Loretta: Does ARIA require a level attribute?

Michael: Pretty sure not required, but recommended.

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#heading

Josh: Should this technique include a note that this is mostly recommended for legacy code.

Loretta: I think it already does this.

David: Don't want to relegate it to only this use. I'm worried that it looks like there is going to be a lot of confusion about heading levels in the next few years, and the use of this attributes provides a way to clarify the level.

Andrew looking at ARIA spec.

Josh: concerns about levels going too deep.

Andrew: maybe add a note about current AT really only supporting levels up to level 6.

Josh: would the example codify the practice when it isn't appropriate?

Andrew: what is appropriate all depends on accessibility support.

David: I think Gez's article is a really good example of another use.
... there is a lot of confusion about how levels should be supported by AT.

Loretta: meta-comment about techniques. My personal opinion is that it is good to include examples that are best practices, but if we limit ourselves to only showing things we think are best practices, and reject sufficient techniques that arent't best practice, we will tie ourselves in knots.

Josh: Perhaps we need to add discussion to accessibility support to this technique.

<scribe> ACTION: David to work on adding his additional knowledge about uses of level to this technique. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dmacdona, dtodd2).

<scribe> ACTION: dmacdona to work on adding his additional knowledge about uses of level to this technique. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-213 - Work on adding his additional knowledge about uses of level to this technique. [on David MacDonald - due 2013-09-03].

<kerstin> bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: David to work on adding his additional knowledge about uses of level to this technique. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: dmacdona to work on adding his additional knowledge about uses of level to this technique. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]
 
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Default Present: David_MacDonald, +1.704.877.aaaa, Joshue, Alan_Smith, Loretta, AWK, Peter_Korn, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, Kerstin, Gregg_Vanderheiden, [Microsoft], Cherie
Present: David_MacDonald +1.704.877.aaaa Joshue Alan_Smith Loretta AWK Peter_Korn Marc_Johlic Michael_Cooper Kerstin Gregg_Vanderheiden [Microsoft] Cherie
Regrets: Kathy_Wahlbin James_Nurthen Bruce_Bailey
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JulSep/0074.html
Got date from IRC log name: 27 Aug 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: david dmacdona

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