Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
26 Aug 2013


See also: IRC log




<trackbot> Date: 26 August 2013

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0034.html

<clown> issue-604?

<trackbot> issue-604 -- Normative requirement on User agent processing of input keys does not belong in UAIG -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/604

RS: UAIG discussion list issues

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013JulSep/0267.html

JS: Issue 604
... Key down cancels key press

RS: Why in UAIG

JS: The way older versions of IE handled keyboard events and interoperability

RS: There are new draft documents about keyboard events

JS: They do not say anything about bubbling and cancelliing

RS: If we didn't require this what happens

JS: There will be problems with scripts not cancelled ...
... There is no DOM 2 spec on key events

RS: I will give you a link
... this is a part of what people call DOM 3
... There is a link in the SVG spec

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#keyboard-event-interface

RS: Do we put it in here?

<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20090224/#keyboard-focus_tabindex

JS: When is this going to be a standard

<clown> This is necessary because authors supporting Internet Explorer must use keydown events to process keystrokes, where keydown but not keypress events are fired for non-alphanumeric keys. As web page authors implement script control over the keyboard they need to be able to use keydown but cancel the effect of consumed keystrokes such as arrow keys.

JS: Here is the original statement
... It will pass in 3 browsers

RS: Is this somethign we should be testing?

JS: If it were 2009 I would say yes, this was very useful

RS: This should be in a keyboard spec
... Anyone object to keeping this in UAIG?

JS: This may not be necessary, since IE 10 may be more inline with other browsers

RS: I have seen IE 10 & 11, but not sure they have implemented
... Any objects to leaving this in?
... no objections, leave it in
... Does safari support his?

JS: no, we have ff, chrome, IE 10

RS: We need to get to 1.1

JS: Should be in DOM events, not ARIA

RS: JS can you take this one on at the FTF meeting

<clown> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/20-aapi-minutes.html#item04

JS: I want to get the issue defined nicely so people coming to the meeting can easily understand the issue

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm

JS: I have handled this event and no one else do anything with it
... So you have a mashup, pulling in resources, someone else has an event handler you don't want them to have it if you have used it

<clown> Canceling a keydown event must also cancel the keypress event, for purposes of compatibility with other browsers

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Janina meet with UI Events working group at face to face to ensure that when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/26-pf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1254 - Meet with ui events working group at face to face to ensure that when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled. [on Janina Sajka - due 2013-09-02].

RS: I will assign this to a general spec reviews

Janina: There has got to be some history

RS: You can close this issue

JS: Moving this requirement to UI events

RS: We will leave our spec alone
... What else JS?

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Close issue 604

JS: no major out standing issues

RS: Where are we in the test report?

JS: I did some tests

RS: We can close some of these

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view

RS: I am looking at 504, JS passed

JS: It failed a few times, but now it passes

RS: we are getting better
... Any items that passed that now fail

JS: 345

RS: A radio button that is not checkable
... What version of the browser are you running

JS: I test the shipping version

RS: Can you tell alex
... Isn't there a new checkable property?

JS: 509 I am still failing
... This is weird, according to the UAIG, this is an element ...., container element text...

RS: This is a live test
... We need to put live on it
... We are missing an image
... This create problems for other browsers
... What could possible change on this one

JS: it should also relevant: true, that is not there
... Its exposed as a graphic

RS: Safari if you don't have an image it doesn't work

JS: FF gives the graphics in the accessibility API

RS: We are missing a foo.jpg

<clown> find . -name "foo.jpg" -print

<clown> here: /ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/name-computation-img/foo.jpg

working on getting foo.jpg in test case

JG: The image is very big

<clown> Expose as object attribute relevant:<value> and container-relevant:<value>.

JS: reading the requirements for 509
... I might be using the wrong version of FF

RS: Let me take a look

JS: Let me look at IDOM

JG: Can you send me the new copy of AccProbe?

JS: not showing up in IDOM

RS: I wish we would have automated this
... Let me take a look now
... Graphic is test 1
... Maybe it broke after I passed it
... I am still looking

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view

RS: There a couple we need to get resolution on

344 we have to get passed

RS: Everyone fails 344
... I have got it working on FF, since we have a block on it

JS: I was was going to continue on from 610
... Want me to prioritize 8xxx...

RS: what about 345

JS: Chekable true

RS: 617
... Some are marked up as uncertain
... IDOM it passes

JS: IDOM it passes

RS: Does IDOM work on linux

JS: 90% of the time

RS: Name computation .....
... If you go from there down that would be great
... We need to resolve 344 on the UAIG call
... We have to have it, we need 2
... Can we get safari and chrome?
... We can't get around it

JS: Aaron wrote that

RS: You got to do it

JS: Can we test with FF 2
... It will pass
... What does it fail in IE and Safari

RS: Don't want to go back to last call

JS: I wish the undefined would be undefined

RS: The people who manner alex, james and dominic

JS: james and dominic never come
... can we put this out to the member list

RS: We don't want to loose a month over this

JS: It is in the state and properties section, from the wai aria spec

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-checked

RS: Where is it in the aria spec

JS: it is in the third paragraph
... it is the last clause that is the problem
... discussion of ways of getting a pass ....
... RS is loading FF 2.0 to test ....

<clown> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/roles-properties-supported-inherited/roles-properties-supported-inherited-menuitemradio-aria-checked-mixed.html

JS: RS is testing FF 2 ....

JG: It might be a problem with namespacing

RS: It will not work

JG: We will file bugs tomorrow

JS: They are all atk-spi only, urls ...
... review of new links in test harness ....
... The labels on these urls are not descriptive

RS: It looks like he tested some of these
... I really need to get 344 done


JS: How do you test this one

JG: There is a "try agin" button

RS: Can you check issue 599

JS: I am running the test, I need a bigger window
... I am looking at text change insert event
... I got the text change event on charlette
... CS asked me to put her name on it
... 894 has passed
... which issue?

RS: 599

JS: DOes CS know about this?

RS: This was a blocker

JS: You want the UAIG to be updated

RS: Tehis where she needs the MSAA event
... discussion of the issue ...

JS: You get a live region "change" event

<clown> issue-599?

<trackbot> issue-599 -- Section 5.8.2 MSAA+UIAExpress should reflect MSAA events and not UIA events -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/599

RS: This is what IE does today
... ... discussion of details of events ....

JS: On all of these cells in this table?

RS: I didn't say it was useful, it is just what it does


JS: I am just trying to understand the change
... You want that in every cell

RS: This is where it is suppose to go
... I can start tests on the UAIG
... We need to get the ARIA spec test done

JG: I will test these tomorrow
... Do you want us to start on the UAIG tests?

RS: You can run the live region tests
... and then do the UAIG test

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view

rrsagent draft, minutes

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Janina meet with UI Events working group at face to face to ensure that when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/26-pf-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013/08/26 15:25:50 $

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        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0034.html
Found Date: 26 Aug 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/26-pf-minutes.html
People with action items: at events face group janina meet ui with working

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