14:01:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
14:01:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/26-pf-irc
14:01:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
14:01:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pf
14:01:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
14:01:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:01:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
14:01:14 <trackbot> Date: 26 August 2013
14:01:17 <clown> clown has joined #pf
14:01:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
14:01:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
14:01:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
14:01:55 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM has now started
14:02:01 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
14:02:04 <Zakim> +Rich
14:02:07 <Zakim> +??P9
14:02:12 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:02:12 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
14:02:20 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:02:20 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:03:14 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
14:04:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0034.html
14:06:14 <clown> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0034.html
14:06:55 <clown> issue-604?
14:06:55 <trackbot> issue-604 -- Normative requirement on User agent processing of input keys does not belong in UAIG -- open
14:06:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/604
14:07:00 <jongund> RS: UAIG discussion list issues
14:07:04 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013JulSep/0267.html
14:07:16 <jongund> JS: Issue 604
14:07:37 <jongund> JS: Key down cancels key press
14:07:53 <jongund> RS: Why in UAIG
14:08:23 <jongund> JS: The way older versions of IE handled keyboard events and interoperability
14:08:40 <jongund> RS: There are new draft documents about keyboard events
14:08:58 <jongund> JS: They do not say anything about bubbling and cancelliing
14:09:09 <jongund> RS: If we didn't require this what happens
14:09:29 <jongund> JS: There will be problems with scripts not cancelled ...
14:09:42 <jongund> JS: There is no DOM 2 spec on key events
14:09:48 <jongund> RS: I will give you a link
14:09:59 <jongund> RS: this is a part of what people call DOM 3
14:10:18 <jongund> RS: There is a link in the SVG spec
14:10:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#keyboard-event-interface
14:10:51 <jongund> RS: Do we put it in here?
14:11:03 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20090224/#keyboard-focus_tabindex
14:11:06 <jongund> JS: When is this going to be a standard
14:11:20 <clown> This is necessary because authors supporting Internet Explorer must use keydown events to process keystrokes, where keydown but not keypress events are fired for non-alphanumeric keys. As web page authors implement script control over the keyboard they need to be able to use keydown but cancel the effect of consumed keystrokes such as arrow keys.
14:11:23 <jongund> JS: Here is the original statement
14:12:31 <jongund> JS: It will pass in 3 browsers
14:12:39 <jongund> RS: Is this somethign we should be testing?
14:13:00 <jongund> JS: If it were 2009 I would say yes, this was very useful
14:13:17 <jongund> RS: This should be in a keyboard spec
14:13:41 <jongund> RS: Anyone object to keeping this in UAIG?
14:14:05 <jongund> JS: This may not be necessary, since IE 10 may be more inline with other browsers
14:14:23 <jongund> RS: I have seen IE 10 & 11, but not sure they have implemented
14:14:34 <jongund> RS: Any objects to leaving this in?
14:14:45 <jongund> RS: no objections, leave it in
14:14:56 <jongund> RS: Does safari support his?
14:15:13 <jongund> JS: no, we have ff, chrome, IE 10
14:15:19 <jongund> RS: We need to get to 1.1
14:15:28 <jongund> JS: Should be in DOM events, not ARIA
14:15:46 <jongund> RS: JS can you take this one on at the FTF meeting
14:16:15 <clown> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/20-aapi-minutes.html#item04
14:16:27 <jongund> JS: I want to get the issue defined nicely so people coming to the meeting can easily understand the issue
14:16:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm
14:18:41 <jongund> JS: I have handled this event and no one else do anything with it
14:19:43 <jongund> JS: So you have a mashup, pulling in resources, someone else has an event handler you don't want them to have it if you have used it
14:19:46 <clown> Canceling a keydown event must also cancel the keypress event, for purposes of compatibility with other browsers
14:20:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Janina meet with UI Events working group at face to face to ensure that when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled.
14:20:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1254 - Meet with ui events working group at face to face to ensure that when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled. [on Janina Sajka - due 2013-09-02].
14:21:07 <jongund> RS: I will assign this to a general spec reviews
14:21:28 <jongund> Janina: There has got to be some history
14:21:41 <jongund> RS: You can close this issue
14:22:11 <jongund> JS: Moving this requirement to UI events
14:22:19 <jongund> RS: We will leave our spec alone
14:22:28 <jongund> RS: What else JS?
14:22:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Close issue 604
14:22:54 <jongund> JS: no major out standing issues
14:23:08 <jongund> RS: Where are we in the test report?
14:23:20 <jongund> JS: I did some tests
14:23:28 <jongund> RS: We can close some of these
14:23:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view
14:24:13 <jongund> RS: I am looking at 504, JS passed
14:24:29 <jongund> JS: It failed a few times, but now it passes
14:24:36 <jongund> RS: we are getting better
14:24:49 <jongund> RS: Any items that passed that now fail
14:24:56 <jongund> JS: 345
14:25:07 <jongund> RS: A radio button that is not checkable
14:25:43 <jongund> RS: What version of the browser are you running
14:25:51 <jongund> JS: I test the shipping version
14:25:57 <jongund> RS: Can you tell alex
14:26:23 <jongund> RS: Isn't there a new checkable property?
14:26:52 <jongund> JS: 509 I am still failing
14:27:29 <jongund> JS: This is weird, according to the UAIG, this is an element ...., container element text...
14:27:56 <jongund> RS: This is a live test
14:28:08 <jongund> RS: We need to put live on it
14:28:46 <jongund> RS: We are missing an image
14:29:03 <jongund> RS: This create problems for other browsers
14:29:39 <jongund> RS: What could possible change on this one
14:30:01 <jongund> JS: it should also relevant: true, that is not there
14:30:12 <jongund> JS: Its exposed as a graphic
14:30:31 <jongund> RS: Safari if you don't have an image it doesn't work
14:30:46 <jongund> JS: FF gives the graphics in the accessibility API
14:31:01 <jongund> RS: We are missing a foo.jpg
14:31:32 <clown> find . -name "foo.jpg" -print
14:33:15 <clown> here:  /ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/name-computation-img/foo.jpg
14:33:25 <jongund> working on getting foo.jpg in test case
14:36:10 <jongund> JG: The image is very big
14:36:24 <clown> Expose as object attribute relevant:<value> and container-relevant:<value>.
14:36:40 <jongund> JS: reading the requirements for 509
14:36:56 <jongund> JS: I might be using the wrong version of FF
14:37:08 <jongund> RS: Let me take a look
14:37:29 <jongund> JS: Let me look at IDOM
14:38:09 <jongund> JG: Can you send me the new copy of AccProbe?
14:38:21 <jongund> JS: not showing up in IDOM
14:38:37 <jongund> RS: I wish we would have automated this
14:38:52 <jongund> RS: Let me take a look now
14:39:22 <jongund> RS: Graphic is test 1
14:39:33 <jongund> RS: Maybe it broke after I passed it
14:39:58 <jongund> RS: I am still looking
14:41:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view
14:41:57 <jongund> RS: There a couple we need to get resolution on
14:42:06 <jongund> 344 we have to get passed
14:42:14 <jongund> RS: Everyone fails 344
14:42:59 <jongund> RS: I have got it working on FF, since we have a block on it
14:43:16 <jongund> JS: I was was going to continue on from 610
14:43:26 <jongund> JS: Want me to prioritize 8xxx...
14:43:33 <jongund> RS: what about 345
14:43:41 <jongund> JS: Chekable true
14:43:51 <jongund> RS: 617
14:44:36 <jongund> RS: Some are marked up as uncertain
14:45:49 <jongund> RS: IDOM it passes
14:45:58 <jongund> JS: IDOM it passes
14:46:12 <jongund> RS: Does IDOM work on linux
14:46:20 <jongund> JS: 90% of the time
14:46:32 <jongund> RS: Name computation .....
14:46:50 <jongund> RS: If you go from there down that would be great
14:47:10 <jongund> RS: We need to resolve 344 on the UAIG call
14:47:19 <jongund> RS: We have to have it, we need 2
14:47:37 <jongund> RS: Can we get safari and chrome?
14:47:52 <jongund> RS: We can't get around it
14:48:08 <jongund> JS: Aaron wrote that
14:48:23 <jongund> RS: You got to do it
14:48:32 <jongund> JS: Can we test with FF 2
14:48:40 <jongund> JS: It will pass
14:48:53 <jongund> JS: What does it fail in IE and Safari
14:49:03 <jongund> RS: Don't want to go back to last call
14:49:38 <jongund> JS: I wish the undefined would be undefined
14:50:28 <jongund> RS: The people who manner alex, james and dominic
14:50:37 <jongund> JS: james and dominic never come
14:50:51 <jongund> JS: can we put this out to the member list
14:51:10 <jongund> RS: We don't want to loose a month over this
14:52:27 <jongund> JS: It is in the state and properties section, from the wai aria spec
14:52:42 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-checked
14:52:43 <jongund> RS: Where is it in the aria spec
14:53:36 <jongund> JS: it is in the third paragraph
14:53:48 <jongund> JS: it is the last clause that is the problem
14:55:40 <jongund> .... discussion of ways of getting a pass ....
14:59:34 <jongund> ... RS is loading FF 2.0 to test ....
14:59:55 <clown> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/roles-properties-supported-inherited/roles-properties-supported-inherited-menuitemradio-aria-checked-mixed.html
15:00:24 <jongund> ... RS is testing FF 2 ....
15:02:23 <jongund> JG: It might be a problem with namespacing
15:03:28 <jongund> RS: It will not work
15:05:09 <jongund> JG: We will file bugs tomorrow
15:05:51 <jongund> JS: They are all atk-spi only, urls ...
15:06:17 <jongund> ... review of new links in test harness ....
15:06:58 <jongund> JS: The labels on these urls are not descriptive
15:07:13 <jongund> RS: It looks like he tested some of these
15:07:50 <jongund> RS: I really need to get 344 done
15:08:31 <jongund> 894
15:08:39 <jongund> JS: How do you test this one
15:09:18 <jongund> JG: There is a "try agin" button
15:09:30 <jongund> RS: Can you check issue 599
15:09:46 <jongund> JS: I am running the test, I need a bigger window
15:10:00 <jongund> JS: I am looking at text change insert event
15:10:40 <jongund> JS: I got the text change event on charlette
15:10:51 <jongund> JS: CS asked me to put her name on it
15:11:03 <jongund> JS: 894 has passed
15:11:10 <jongund> JS: which issue?
15:11:14 <jongund> RS: 599
15:11:47 <jongund> JS: DOes CS know about this?
15:11:53 <jongund> RS: This was a blocker
15:12:02 <jongund> JS: You want the UAIG to be updated
15:12:14 <jongund> RS: Tehis where she needs the MSAA event
15:13:34 <jongund> ... discussion of the issue ...
15:13:58 <jongund> JS: You get a live region "change" event
15:14:06 <clown> issue-599?
15:14:06 <trackbot> issue-599 -- Section 5.8.2 MSAA+UIAExpress should reflect MSAA events and not UIA events -- open
15:14:06 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/599
15:14:13 <jongund> RS: This is what IE does today
15:14:50 <jongund> RS: ... discussion of details of events ....
15:15:00 <jongund> JS: On all of these cells in this table?
15:15:17 <jongund> RS: I didn't say it was useful, it is just what it does
15:15:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> EVENT_OBJECT_LIVEREGIONCHANGED
15:15:32 <jongund> JS: I am just trying to understand the change
15:15:43 <jongund> JS: You want that in every cell
15:15:53 <jongund> RS: This is where it is suppose to go
15:21:02 <jongund> RS: I can start tests on the UAIG
15:21:21 <jongund> RS: We need to get the ARIA spec test done
15:22:56 <jongund> JG: I will test these tomorrow
15:23:12 <jongund> JG: Do you want us to start on the UAIG tests?
15:23:33 <jongund> RS: You can run the live region tests
15:23:51 <jongund> RS: and then do the UAIG test
15:24:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view
15:25:00 <jongund> rrsagent draft, minutes
15:25:45 <jongund> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:25:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/26-pf-minutes.html jongund
15:26:07 <janina> http://www.w3.org/mid/20130824012717.GC38569@sideshowbarker
15:26:15 <jongund> RS: No meeting next monday
15:26:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: No meeting for labor day (September 2)
15:30:24 <clown> "However, that said, I stand by my original comment about this … because I've yet to see anybody provide an actual use case for allowing valid ARIA *1.0* documents to have role attributes with multiple tokens.
15:30:24 <clown> role="switch checkbox" is not an ARIA 1.0 use case. It's a maybe-ARIA 1.1 (or ARIA 2.0 or whatever) use case."
15:31:55 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
15:35:04 <Zakim> -Rich
15:39:06 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:39:07 <Zakim> -??P9
15:39:07 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM has ended
15:39:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Jon_Gunderson
15:39:31 <clown> zakim, ??P9 is Janina_Sajika
15:39:31 <Zakim> sorry, clown, I do not recognize a party named '??P9'
15:39:39 <clown> zakim, P9 is Janina_Sajika
15:39:39 <Zakim> sorry, clown, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
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