IRC log of pf on 2013-08-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/26-pf-irc

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RRSAgent, make logs member

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Zakim, this will be WAI_PF

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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM scheduled to start now

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Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

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Date: 26 August 2013

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14:01:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]

RRSAgent, make log public

14:01:27 [richardschwerdtfeger]

chair: Rich

14:01:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]

meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

14:01:55 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM has now started

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+[GVoice]

14:02:04 [Zakim]

+Rich

14:02:07 [Zakim]

+??P9

14:02:12 [clown]

zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer

14:02:12 [Zakim]

+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it

14:02:20 [clown]

zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer

14:02:20 [Zakim]

ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer

14:03:14 [Zakim]

+Jon_Gunderson

14:04:11 [richardschwerdtfeger]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0034.html

14:06:14 [clown]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Aug/0034.html

14:06:55 [clown]

issue-604?

14:06:55 [trackbot]

issue-604 -- Normative requirement on User agent processing of input keys does not belong in UAIG -- open

14:06:55 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/604

14:07:00 [jongund]

RS: UAIG discussion list issues

14:07:04 [clown]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013JulSep/0267.html

14:07:16 [jongund]

JS: Issue 604

14:07:37 [jongund]

JS: Key down cancels key press

14:07:53 [jongund]

RS: Why in UAIG

14:08:23 [jongund]

JS: The way older versions of IE handled keyboard events and interoperability

14:08:40 [jongund]

RS: There are new draft documents about keyboard events

14:08:58 [jongund]

JS: They do not say anything about bubbling and cancelliing

14:09:09 [jongund]

RS: If we didn't require this what happens

14:09:29 [jongund]

JS: There will be problems with scripts not cancelled ...

14:09:42 [jongund]

JS: There is no DOM 2 spec on key events

14:09:48 [jongund]

RS: I will give you a link

14:09:59 [jongund]

RS: this is a part of what people call DOM 3

14:10:18 [jongund]

RS: There is a link in the SVG spec

14:10:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]

http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#keyboard-event-interface

14:10:51 [jongund]

RS: Do we put it in here?

14:11:03 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20090224/#keyboard-focus_tabindex

14:11:06 [jongund]

JS: When is this going to be a standard

14:11:20 [clown]

This is necessary because authors supporting Internet Explorer must use keydown events to process keystrokes, where keydown but not keypress events are fired for non-alphanumeric keys. As web page authors implement script control over the keyboard they need to be able to use keydown but cancel the effect of consumed keystrokes such as arrow keys.

14:11:23 [jongund]

JS: Here is the original statement

14:12:31 [jongund]

JS: It will pass in 3 browsers

14:12:39 [jongund]

RS: Is this somethign we should be testing?

14:13:00 [jongund]

JS: If it were 2009 I would say yes, this was very useful

14:13:17 [jongund]

RS: This should be in a keyboard spec

14:13:41 [jongund]

RS: Anyone object to keeping this in UAIG?

14:14:05 [jongund]

JS: This may not be necessary, since IE 10 may be more inline with other browsers

14:14:23 [jongund]

RS: I have seen IE 10 & 11, but not sure they have implemented

14:14:34 [jongund]

RS: Any objects to leaving this in?

14:14:45 [jongund]

RS: no objections, leave it in

14:14:56 [jongund]

RS: Does safari support his?

14:15:13 [jongund]

JS: no, we have ff, chrome, IE 10

14:15:19 [jongund]

RS: We need to get to 1.1

14:15:28 [jongund]

JS: Should be in DOM events, not ARIA

14:15:46 [jongund]

RS: JS can you take this one on at the FTF meeting

14:16:15 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/2013/08/20-aapi-minutes.html#item04

14:16:27 [jongund]

JS: I want to get the issue defined nicely so people coming to the meeting can easily understand the issue

14:16:30 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm

14:18:41 [jongund]

JS: I have handled this event and no one else do anything with it

14:19:43 [jongund]

JS: So you have a mashup, pulling in resources, someone else has an event handler you don't want them to have it if you have used it

14:19:46 [clown]

Canceling a keydown event must also cancel the keypress event, for purposes of compatibility with other browsers

14:20:06 [richardschwerdtfeger]

Action: Janina meet with UI Events working group at face to face to ensure that when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled.

14:20:06 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1254 - Meet with ui events working group at face to face to ensure that when a keydown event is consumed/cancelled that the corresponding keypress event is also cancelled. [on Janina Sajka - due 2013-09-02].

14:21:07 [jongund]

RS: I will assign this to a general spec reviews

14:21:28 [jongund]

Janina: There has got to be some history

14:21:41 [jongund]

RS: You can close this issue

14:22:11 [jongund]

JS: Moving this requirement to UI events

14:22:19 [jongund]

RS: We will leave our spec alone

14:22:28 [jongund]

RS: What else JS?

14:22:31 [richardschwerdtfeger]

RESOLUTION: Close issue 604

14:22:54 [jongund]

JS: no major out standing issues

14:23:08 [jongund]

RS: Where are we in the test report?

14:23:20 [jongund]

JS: I did some tests

14:23:28 [jongund]

RS: We can close some of these

14:23:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view

14:24:13 [jongund]

RS: I am looking at 504, JS passed

14:24:29 [jongund]

JS: It failed a few times, but now it passes

14:24:36 [jongund]

RS: we are getting better

14:24:49 [jongund]

RS: Any items that passed that now fail

14:24:56 [jongund]

JS: 345

14:25:07 [jongund]

RS: A radio button that is not checkable

14:25:43 [jongund]

RS: What version of the browser are you running

14:25:51 [jongund]

JS: I test the shipping version

14:25:57 [jongund]

RS: Can you tell alex

14:26:23 [jongund]

RS: Isn't there a new checkable property?

14:26:52 [jongund]

JS: 509 I am still failing

14:27:29 [jongund]

JS: This is weird, according to the UAIG, this is an element ...., container element text...

14:27:56 [jongund]

RS: This is a live test

14:28:08 [jongund]

RS: We need to put live on it

14:28:46 [jongund]

RS: We are missing an image

14:29:03 [jongund]

RS: This create problems for other browsers

14:29:39 [jongund]

RS: What could possible change on this one

14:30:01 [jongund]

JS: it should also relevant: true, that is not there

14:30:12 [jongund]

JS: Its exposed as a graphic

14:30:31 [jongund]

RS: Safari if you don't have an image it doesn't work

14:30:46 [jongund]

JS: FF gives the graphics in the accessibility API

14:31:01 [jongund]

RS: We are missing a foo.jpg

14:31:32 [clown]

find . -name "foo.jpg" -print

14:33:15 [clown]

here: /ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/name-computation-img/foo.jpg

14:33:25 [jongund]

working on getting foo.jpg in test case

14:36:10 [jongund]

JG: The image is very big

14:36:24 [clown]

Expose as object attribute relevant:<value> and container-relevant:<value>.

14:36:40 [jongund]

JS: reading the requirements for 509

14:36:56 [jongund]

JS: I might be using the wrong version of FF

14:37:08 [jongund]

RS: Let me take a look

14:37:29 [jongund]

JS: Let me look at IDOM

14:38:09 [jongund]

JG: Can you send me the new copy of AccProbe?

14:38:21 [jongund]

JS: not showing up in IDOM

14:38:37 [jongund]

RS: I wish we would have automated this

14:38:52 [jongund]

RS: Let me take a look now

14:39:22 [jongund]

RS: Graphic is test 1

14:39:33 [jongund]

RS: Maybe it broke after I passed it

14:39:58 [jongund]

RS: I am still looking

14:41:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view

14:41:57 [jongund]

RS: There a couple we need to get resolution on

14:42:06 [jongund]

344 we have to get passed

14:42:14 [jongund]

RS: Everyone fails 344

14:42:59 [jongund]

RS: I have got it working on FF, since we have a block on it

14:43:16 [jongund]

JS: I was was going to continue on from 610

14:43:26 [jongund]

JS: Want me to prioritize 8xxx...

14:43:33 [jongund]

RS: what about 345

14:43:41 [jongund]

JS: Chekable true

14:43:51 [jongund]

RS: 617

14:44:36 [jongund]

RS: Some are marked up as uncertain

14:45:49 [jongund]

RS: IDOM it passes

14:45:58 [jongund]

JS: IDOM it passes

14:46:12 [jongund]

RS: Does IDOM work on linux

14:46:20 [jongund]

JS: 90% of the time

14:46:32 [jongund]

RS: Name computation .....

14:46:50 [jongund]

RS: If you go from there down that would be great

14:47:10 [jongund]

RS: We need to resolve 344 on the UAIG call

14:47:19 [jongund]

RS: We have to have it, we need 2

14:47:37 [jongund]

RS: Can we get safari and chrome?

14:47:52 [jongund]

RS: We can't get around it

14:48:08 [jongund]

JS: Aaron wrote that

14:48:23 [jongund]

RS: You got to do it

14:48:32 [jongund]

JS: Can we test with FF 2

14:48:40 [jongund]

JS: It will pass

14:48:53 [jongund]

JS: What does it fail in IE and Safari

14:49:03 [jongund]

RS: Don't want to go back to last call

14:49:38 [jongund]

JS: I wish the undefined would be undefined

14:50:28 [jongund]

RS: The people who manner alex, james and dominic

14:50:37 [jongund]

JS: james and dominic never come

14:50:51 [jongund]

JS: can we put this out to the member list

14:51:10 [jongund]

RS: We don't want to loose a month over this

14:52:27 [jongund]

JS: It is in the state and properties section, from the wai aria spec

14:52:42 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-checked

14:52:43 [jongund]

RS: Where is it in the aria spec

14:53:36 [jongund]

JS: it is in the third paragraph

14:53:48 [jongund]

JS: it is the last clause that is the problem

14:55:40 [jongund]

.... discussion of ways of getting a pass ....

14:59:34 [jongund]

... RS is loading FF 2.0 to test ....

14:59:55 [clown]

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/roles-properties-supported-inherited/roles-properties-supported-inherited-menuitemradio-aria-checked-mixed.html

15:00:24 [jongund]

... RS is testing FF 2 ....

15:02:23 [jongund]

JG: It might be a problem with namespacing

15:03:28 [jongund]

RS: It will not work

15:05:09 [jongund]

JG: We will file bugs tomorrow

15:05:51 [jongund]

JS: They are all atk-spi only, urls ...

15:06:17 [jongund]

... review of new links in test harness ....

15:06:58 [jongund]

JS: The labels on these urls are not descriptive

15:07:13 [jongund]

RS: It looks like he tested some of these

15:07:50 [jongund]

RS: I really need to get 344 done

15:08:31 [jongund]

894

15:08:39 [jongund]

JS: How do you test this one

15:09:18 [jongund]

JG: There is a "try agin" button

15:09:30 [jongund]

RS: Can you check issue 599

15:09:46 [jongund]

JS: I am running the test, I need a bigger window

15:10:00 [jongund]

JS: I am looking at text change insert event

15:10:40 [jongund]

JS: I got the text change event on charlette

15:10:51 [jongund]

JS: CS asked me to put her name on it

15:11:03 [jongund]

JS: 894 has passed

15:11:10 [jongund]

JS: which issue?

15:11:14 [jongund]

RS: 599

15:11:47 [jongund]

JS: DOes CS know about this?

15:11:53 [jongund]

RS: This was a blocker

15:12:02 [jongund]

JS: You want the UAIG to be updated

15:12:14 [jongund]

RS: Tehis where she needs the MSAA event

15:13:34 [jongund]

... discussion of the issue ...

15:13:58 [jongund]

JS: You get a live region "change" event

15:14:06 [clown]

issue-599?

15:14:06 [trackbot]

issue-599 -- Section 5.8.2 MSAA+UIAExpress should reflect MSAA events and not UIA events -- open

15:14:06 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/599

15:14:13 [jongund]

RS: This is what IE does today

15:14:50 [jongund]

RS: ... discussion of details of events ....

15:15:00 [jongund]

JS: On all of these cells in this table?

15:15:17 [jongund]

RS: I didn't say it was useful, it is just what it does

15:15:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]

EVENT_OBJECT_LIVEREGIONCHANGED

15:15:32 [jongund]

JS: I am just trying to understand the change

15:15:43 [jongund]

JS: You want that in every cell

15:15:53 [jongund]

RS: This is where it is suppose to go

15:21:02 [jongund]

RS: I can start tests on the UAIG

15:21:21 [jongund]

RS: We need to get the ARIA spec test done

15:22:56 [jongund]

JG: I will test these tomorrow

15:23:12 [jongund]

JG: Do you want us to start on the UAIG tests?

15:23:33 [jongund]

RS: You can run the live region tests

15:23:51 [jongund]

RS: and then do the UAIG test

15:24:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport/annotate?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view

15:25:00 [jongund]

rrsagent draft, minutes

15:25:45 [jongund]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:25:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/26-pf-minutes.html jongund

15:26:07 [janina]

http://www.w3.org/mid/20130824012717.GC38569@sideshowbarker

15:26:15 [jongund]

RS: No meeting next monday

15:26:23 [richardschwerdtfeger]

RESOLUTION: No meeting for labor day (September 2)

15:30:24 [clown]

"However, that said, I stand by my original comment about this … because I've yet to see anybody provide an actual use case for allowing valid ARIA *1.0* documents to have role attributes with multiple tokens.

15:30:24 [clown]

role="switch checkbox" is not an ARIA 1.0 use case. It's a maybe-ARIA 1.1 (or ARIA 2.0 or whatever) use case."

15:31:55 [Zakim]

-Jon_Gunderson

15:35:04 [Zakim]

-Rich

15:39:06 [Zakim]

-Joseph_Scheuhammer

15:39:07 [Zakim]

-??P9

15:39:07 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM has ended

15:39:07 [Zakim]

Attendees were Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Jon_Gunderson

15:39:31 [clown]

zakim, ??P9 is Janina_Sajika

15:39:31 [Zakim]

sorry, clown, I do not recognize a party named '??P9'

15:39:39 [clown]

zakim, P9 is Janina_Sajika

15:39:39 [Zakim]

sorry, clown, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'

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