W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines

13 Aug 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
David_MacDonald, Joshue, [Adobe], Bruce_Bailey, AWK, +1.978.261.aaaa, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, James_Nurthen
Regrets
Chair
Joshue_O_Connor
Scribe
Kathy

Contents


<AWK> Scribe: Kathy

<scribe> scribe: Kathy

Assigning issues and institutional memory collection for 1.3.1: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13Aug2013/

Andrew: Can choose more than one. We want to distribute the work

Josh - we can look at who has done the work and then assign the work out

Kathy - I will write the response for next week

Andrew - it would be good if we can have responses by the end of this week

Josh - take a look at the items not assigned and see if you can respond

<Loretta> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13Aug2013/results#xq4

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/2790

Josh - who should respond to LC-2790: Using aria-describedby to provide descriptions of objects

Josh - I will respond to this one

Josh - LC-2785: *Labels or Instructions*: Understanding SC 3.3.2

<David> am I here?

David - I will take this one and LC-2811, LC-2806

Andrew - please get them in by Friday

Loretta - put in WG Notes and resolution. Submit as proposal

Andrew - submit as proposal changes the status

<Loretta> Don't put int WG notes - people usually don't notice them.

<Loretta> WG notes are a better place for keeping WG history about the issue.

institutional memory collection for 1.3.1

Josh - Michael has set up a WIKI page. Every week we will look at a success criteria and capture the information.

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory

Andrew - we may just want to jot down what the questions are

Loretta - this is helpful exercise especially for those who were not there

Josh - what are some of the framing questions?

Josh - what do you remember about the development of a success criteria that may not be apparent

Loretta - what is it about 1.3.1 that you have questions about?

Josh - something that I find is front-loaded. Very important success criteria. Covers a lot of what we need to do to make something is accessible. This is a good success criteria.

Andrew - had a review done and had comments on 1.3.1 that were wide ranging. For example, list of links is not marked up as a list. Another is headings but not marked up as headings

David - this one is turned in a catch all success criteria. This one we were trying to consolidate.

David - we could have spent more time on 4.1.2 to articulate it a bit more and clarified the boundries

<Joshue> KW: Different experts in the field categorize form controls under various SCs. So where does it sit?

Loretta - 1.1.1 has reference to form controls

Andrew - are all form controls non-text content

Loretta - we did not define what text is

<AWK> From understanding 1.1.1: For non-text content that is a control or accepts user input, such as images used as submit buttons, image maps or complex animations, a name is provided to describe the purpose of the non-text content so that the person at least knows what the non-text content is and why it is there.

Bruce: Can have a single element on a page for form control that falls under 1.1.1 and 1.3.1. The major thing for 1.3.1, it is a bucket

James - it was not the intent that it would fall under 1.1.1. It could be misinterpreted

<AWK> +1 James's comment

<Joshue> +q

Loretta - elements can have to meet multiple success criteria. This was intentional

Josh - interesting conversation. We need a way of capturing this. We could have everyone put this on the WIKI.

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say we can put pointer to minutes in wiki and to say it could be useful to have someone try to distill from minutes, before everyone sticks repeated stuff

Andrew - it was important for technology independence to have 1.3.1 to be less well defined. It is a difficult balance

Michael - we are scribing the minutes and we can put a link to the minutes in the WIKI. It would be good to have a person to distill the meeting into WIKI and then people can add comments

Josh - for everyone that makes a comment, let's make sure that it is minutes. That would make it easier for the person to add to the WIKI

Andrew - Loretta, question for you. We have had a number of discussions on low vision. There are a number of things that 1.3.1 applies to

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory/SC_1.3.1

Loretta - Added it to the WIKI. The goal of 1.3.1 is to expose it to AT and that the AT would expose this information in the way that they need it. In the case of low-vision, they may not be using AT. Tied to what is accessibility support and how far does the author's responsibility go

Josh - Bring back to the logistics, Michael would you be able to look through the minutes and add them to the WIKI.

Michael - yes

Josh - we can take turns adding it to the WIKI

Loretta - have a look at what I have added into the wiki

Josh - 1.3.1 is loaded with so much stuff so it is helpful to have it listed here

Josh- don't worry about categorization, let's get the comment in the WIKI

Loretta - where the pain points are for reviews sparks the discussion

Andrew - reminder we are looking for feedback on the alt information

Gathering feedback on alt and HTML5

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-wai-wcag-minutes#item04

http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/

Josh - here is the link for the alt-text: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013//results

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt

David - already submitted comments as bugs

Loretta - if there is text on the page that describes the image, then aria-labelledby can be used

David - is this an alternative for the image?

Loretta - depends on what is in the label

David - need to check the accessibility support

Loretta - if there is accessibility support then this is a reasonable approach, adding the same information in alt can take longer to load the page

Loretta - it is push back that i have had before. Also for localization

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013/

Josh - we should flag this with task force. The survey is open for the next couple of weeks. Take a look at the spec and add in comments.

David - if we are submitting comments, then need sufficient agreement in the group. We should see what the group feels about aria-labelledby

Michael - aria-labelledby is one technique, less preferred than the native methods such as alt attribute. But there are reasons for things to be different so the possibility exists

Josh - where the advice for localization live? WCAG but the lines get blurred. HTML5 needs to have information on creating accessible content

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013/results#xq4

Andrew - ask Loretta about comment in survey

Loretta - if we look at the 1.1.1 then there are situations where we have a form control where we need a label. For a generic image, that should be the text equivalent. Spec does not require the alt attribute

Josh - good discussion and it is good to have the opinions. Please respond to the survey. It will be open for a couple of weeks. May go around in circles with discussions in other groups

Loretta - this information should live .... HTML5 spec has a larger reach. We need to make sure the information is correct.

Josh - leave this for the next couple of weeks and then we will regroup.

Andrew - remember to respond by Friday to your assignments

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: David_MacDonald, Joshue, [Adobe], Bruce_Bailey, AWK, +1.978.261.aaaa, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, James_Nurthen
Present: David_MacDonald Joshue [Adobe] Bruce_Bailey AWK +1.978.261.aaaa Loretta Michael_Cooper Marc_Johlic Kathy_Wahlbin James_Nurthen
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JulSep/0046.html
Got date from IRC log name: 13 Aug 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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