<trackbot> Date: 05 April 2013

<scribe> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller

<scribe> scribenick: MaryJo

Discuss the 'Closed Functionality - compare/contrast with M376' survey [2] starting at 1.4.5

<andisnow> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x95

SC 1.4.5 was put on the list because it was meant to cover ATs having text for non-text content.

<scribe> Closed products don't have an AT.

<Mike_P> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. The M376 standard includes several separate provisions (such as 5.1.3.1, 5.1.3.6) to address the problematic issue. No change. Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality.

Proposal was made to use Andi's edits and change others to remain consistent.

<korn> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. The M376 standard includes several separate provisions (such as 5.1.3.1, 5.1.3.6) to address the problematic issue.  WCAG2ICT describes potential text rendering limitations in closed.

<korn> No change.

<korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality.WCAG2ICT text is helpful.

<korn> -5Apr13

<korn> WCAG2ICT explains why this SC connects to AT

SC 2.1.1 Keyboard - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x323

The language we just adopted would work on this SC too.

So 2.1.1 would be almost identical to 1.4.5

<korn> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  WCAG2ICT describes why this SC connects to AT.

<korn> No change.

<korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality.  WCAG2ICT text is helpful.

<korn> -5Apr13

SC 2.1.2 No Keyboard Trap - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#xFulltext

Peter made a suggested update to the rationale based on Gregg's proposal in the survey.

<Mike_P> WCAG2ICT does not put this on the Closed List. M376 does, and notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC. No change. Rationale: Nothing in 2.1.2 relates to 'making information available in text (which can be read by assistive technologies) or making it "programmatically determinable" (rendered by a user agent, and readable by assistive technologies) or discuss[es] doing something else to make content compatible with as[CUT]

<korn> WCAG2ICT does not put this on the Closed List. M376 does, and notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.

<korn> No change.

<Mike_P> WCAG2ICT does not put this on the Closed List. M376 does, and notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.

<Mike_P> No change.

<Mike_P> Rationale: Nothing in 2.1.2 relates to 'making information available in text (which can be read by assistive technologies) or making it "programmatically determinable" (rendered by a user agent, and readable by assistive technologies) or discuss[es] doing something else to make content compatible with assistive technologies.'

<Mike_P> Furthermore, it applies equally to closed and non-closed functionality or controls. If closed functionality control has a keyboard interface - then it shouldn't trap. And if the control doesn't then there is no problem. So there is no need to change this success criterion for a closed product.

<Mike_P> -5Apr13.

SC 2.1.3 Keyboard (no exceptions) - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x145

There are a few AAA SCs we have in the closed products list. We had discussed last meeting that we won't be doing an analysis of AAA SCs so we don't need to have them listed here.

<Mike_P> +1

There is concern that if we don't have AAA SCs listed in WCAG2ICT, they will be forgotten altogether by people looking at this document.

It might be confusing to readers to have some AAA SCs addressed in the closed section, but nowhere else in the document.

We'll have to look at the introduction to make sure we have the appropriate level of discussion on the AAA SCs. The introduction should be looked at to make sure it is complete enough.

The level AAA SCs will also likely be difficult and time consuming for the task force to get through. Just trying to explore the SCs and figure out what they mean would be a long process.

We need to put this decision in a survey so that we can document a resolution for it and take the decision forward to the WCAG working group.

<Zakim> Judy, you wanted to clarify my earlier comment and to

So to be consistent, it is best to remove the AAA SCs from the closed products section.

<korn> M376 doesn't include this on the list. This is an AAA SC.

<korn> RESOLUTION: drop this SC from the list.

<korn> Rationale: This version of WCAG2ICT doesn't address any AAA SC.

<korn> -5Apr13.

In the introduction we can say that we aren't covering AAA SCs in this document, and state that there may be useful techniques in these SC that are applicable to non-web content.

SC 2.4.2 Page Titled - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x245

<korn> M376 doesn't include this on the list, and further doesn't apply this SC to software.

<korn> No Change.

<korn> Rationale: This SC is applied by WCAG2ICT, and is about 'making information available in text', which is one of our criteria for being on the "Closed List".

<korn> -5Apr13.

<korn> "M376 draft doesn't..."?

We need to put in the beginning of our comparison that what version of M376 we were comparing to.

<andisnow> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 does not include this SC on the closed functionality list and does not apply it to software or documents. WCAG2ICT describes why this SC connects to AT.

<David> +1

We're going to add 'draft' when referring to M376 and WCAG2ICT documents.

This only needs to be done in the last column of the table.

<korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 draft does not include this SC on the closed functionality list and does not apply it to software or documents. WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.

<korn> No Change.

<korn> Rationale: This SC is applied by draft WCAG2ICT, and is about 'making information available in text', which is one of our criteria for being on the "Closed List".

<korn> -5Apr13.

<korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 draft does not include this SC on the closed functionality list and does not apply it to software or documents. WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.

<korn> No Change.

<korn> Rationale: This SC is applied by WCAG2ICT draft, and is about 'making information available in text', which is one of our criteria for being on the "Closed List".

<korn> -5Apr13.

SC 3.1.1 Language of page - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x155

<korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT.  M376 draft notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC. WCAG2ICT describes potential text rendering limitations in closed.

<korn> No change. 

<korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT draft does not have specific provisions for closed functionality. WCAG2ICT draft text is helpful.

<korn> -5Apr13. 

<korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT.  M376 draft notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.

<korn> No change. 

<korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT draft does not have specific provisions for closed functionality. WCAG2ICT draft text is helpful.

<korn> -5Apr13. 

SC 3.1.2 Language of parts - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#xq10

This looks a lot like 2.4.2

The final column in the wiki shows the text we'll be using.

We will apply the same text to 3.3.1.

<korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT.  WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.

<korn> No change. 

<korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT draft text is helpful.

<korn> -5Apr13. 

SC 4.1.1 Parsing and 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x411 and https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x412

Above text would be for these last two SC.

General Comments - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#xGeneral

Anyone who participates in the national bodies reviewing M376 can use the comments, but should not quote these rationales as coming from the WCAG2ICT task force.

<Kiran_Kaja> +1

There shouldn't be any general introductory comments/observations on M376 that we add to the document.

Remaining items to address

Remaining 4 SC for software and documents

"content" in 2.2.1

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Succeeded: s/zakim, how are you feeling?//
Found Scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
Found ScribeNick: MaryJo
Default Present: Andi_Snow_Weaver, Alex_Li, Kiran_Kaja, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Judy, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Peter_Korn, Loic, Mike_P, David_MacDonald
Present: Andi_Snow_Weaver Alex_Li Kiran_Kaja Gregg_Vanderheiden Judy Mary_Jo_Mueller Peter_Korn Loic Mike_P David_MacDonald


Found Date: 05 Apr 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/05-wcag2ict-minutes.html
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