14:00:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/05-wcag2ict-irc
14:00:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:00:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
14:00:42 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:43 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:00:43 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2013
14:00:50 <andisnow> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:51 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, andisnow
14:00:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Loic, Mike_P, alex_, andisnow, Kiran_Kaja, korn, shadi, MichaelC, trackbot
14:01:02 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:01:02 <Zakim> sorry, korn, I do not recognize a party named 'Oracle'
14:01:30 <andisnow> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:30 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, andisnow
14:01:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Loic, Mike_P, alex_, andisnow, Kiran_Kaja, korn, shadi, MichaelC, trackbot
14:02:57 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:04 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has left #wcag2ict
14:03:17 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:28 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:42 <andisnow> agenda+ Discuss the 'Closed Functionality - compare/contrast with M376' survey [2] starting at 1.4.5
14:04:07 <andisnow> agenda+ Discuss the survey on WCAG2ICT Conformance Note proposal [3]
14:04:23 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:33 <andisnow> agenda+ priorities for remaining items to address
14:04:39 <korn> Zakim, who is here?
14:04:39 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, korn
14:04:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see Judy, greggvanderheiden, MaryJo, Zakim, RRSAgent, Loic, Mike_P, alex_, andisnow, Kiran_Kaja, korn, shadi, MichaelC, trackbot
14:04:51 <Judy> zakim, how are you feeling?
14:04:51 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Judy.
14:05:04 <andisnow> agenda+ confirming next meetings
14:05:10 <korn> Zakim, take two aspirin!
14:05:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take two aspirin!', korn
14:05:47 <korn> Zakim, open the pod bay doors
14:05:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'open the pod bay doors', korn
14:06:28 <andisnow> s/zakim, how are you feeling?//
14:06:49 <Judy> zakim, this is WAI_(WCAG2ICT)
14:06:49 <Zakim> ok, Judy; that matches WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM
14:07:07 <andisnow> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Oracle], Andi_Snow_Weaver, [Microsoft], ??P16, ??P17, Kiran_Kaja, Ben_and_Gregg, Judy, Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:07:14 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:07:14 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:07:33 <Loic> Zakim, ??P17 is me
14:07:33 <Zakim> +Loic; got it
14:07:47 <Loic> q-
14:07:58 <Loic> ack ??p17
14:08:03 <Mike_P> ZAkim, ??P16 is me
14:08:03 <Zakim> +Mike_P; got it
14:08:27 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:08:32 <MaryJo> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:08:37 <MaryJo> scribenick: MaryJo
14:08:41 <andisnow> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x95
14:09:02 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
14:09:02 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Discuss the 'Closed Functionality - compare/contrast with M376' survey [2] starting at 1.4.5" taken up [from andisnow]
14:10:35 <Loic> q+
14:10:59 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:11:16 <korn> q+
14:11:35 <alex_> q+
14:12:00 <Loic> ack
14:12:13 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
14:12:47 <Mike_P> +q
14:14:08 <korn> q-
14:14:13 <Loic> q-
14:14:13 <korn> ack L
14:14:14 <korn> ack g
14:14:25 <MaryJo> SC 1.4.5 was put on the list because it was meant to cover AT's having text for non-text content.
14:14:42 <MaryJo> Closed products don't have AT
14:14:47 <andisnow> ack alex
14:15:38 <alex_> ack alex
14:16:58 <korn> q+
14:17:13 <Mike_P> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. The M376 standard includes several separate provisions (such as 5.1.3.1, 5.1.3.6) to address the problematic issue.  No change.  Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality.
14:17:35 <andisnow> ack mike
14:18:05 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:18:09 <andisnow> ack korn
14:19:55 <MaryJo> Proposal was made to use Andi's edits and change others to remain consistent.
14:19:59 <greggvanderheiden> ack ag
14:20:04 <greggvanderheiden> ackg
14:20:07 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
14:20:09 <andisnow> ack g
14:20:14 <MaryJo> s /ackg//
14:20:20 <MaryJo> s /ack ag//
14:22:13 <korn> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. The M376 standard includes several separate provisions (such as 5.1.3.1, 5.1.3.6) to address the problematic issue.  WCAG2ICT describes potential text rendering limitations in closed.
14:22:13 <korn> No change.
14:22:13 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality.WCAG2ICT text is helpful.
14:22:13 <korn> -5Apr13
14:23:28 <korn> WCAG2ICT explains why this SC connects to AT
14:26:50 <MaryJo> SC 2.1.1 Keyboard - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x323
14:27:20 <MaryJo> The language we just adopted would work on this SC too.
14:28:11 <MaryJo> So 2.1.1 would be almost identical to 1.4.5
14:28:50 <korn> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  WCAG2ICT describes why this SC connects to AT.
14:28:50 <korn> No change.
14:28:50 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality.  WCAG2ICT text is helpful.
14:28:50 <korn> -5Apr13
14:31:32 <MaryJo> SC 2.1.2 No Keyboard Trap - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#xFulltext
14:33:41 <MaryJo> Peter made a suggested update to the rationale from Gregg's proposal in the survey.
14:34:21 <Mike_P> WCAG2ICT does not put this on the Closed List. M376 does, and notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  No change.  Rationale: Nothing in 2.1.2 relates to 'making information available in text (which can be read by assistive technologies) or making it "programmatically determinable" (rendered by a user agent, and readable by assistive technologies) or discuss[es] doing something else to make content compatible with as[CUT]
14:34:56 <korn> WCAG2ICT does not put this on the Closed List. M376 does, and notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.
14:34:56 <korn> No change.
14:35:16 <Mike_P> WCAG2ICT does not put this on the Closed List. M376 does, and notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.
14:35:24 <Mike_P> No change.
14:35:43 <Mike_P> Rationale: Nothing in 2.1.2 relates to 'making information available in text (which can be read by assistive technologies) or making it "programmatically determinable" (rendered by a user agent, and readable by assistive technologies) or discuss[es] doing something else to make content compatible with assistive technologies.'
14:35:54 <Mike_P> Furthermore, it applies equally to closed and non-closed functionality or controls. If closed functionality control has a keyboard interface - then it shouldn't trap. And if the control doesn't then there is no problem. So there is no need to change this success criterion for a closed product.
14:35:55 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:36:04 <Mike_P> -5Apr13.
14:36:54 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:37:00 <MaryJo> SC 2.1.3 Keyboard (no exceptions) - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x145
14:39:32 <David> q+
14:39:50 <andisnow> ack g
14:39:53 <andisnow> q+
14:39:56 <Judy> q+
14:40:03 <MaryJo> There are a few AAA SCs we have in the closed products list.  We had discussed last meeting that we won't be doing an analysis of AAA SCs so we don't need to have them listed here.
14:40:31 <andisnow> ack d
14:40:58 <korn> q+
14:41:37 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:41:41 <andisnow> ack a
14:42:17 <David> q+
14:42:42 <Mike_P> q+
14:43:01 <andisnow> ack j
14:43:42 <Mike_P> +1
14:43:59 <Judy> q+
14:44:03 <MaryJo> There is concern that if we don't have AAA SCs listed in WCAG2ICT, they will be forgotten altogether by people looking at this document.
14:44:24 <Judy> q+ to clarify my earlier comment
14:44:29 <korn> ack k
14:44:45 <MaryJo> It might be confusing to readers to have some AAA SCs addressed in the closed section, but nowhere else in the document.
14:46:23 <MaryJo> We'll have to look at the introduction to make sure we have the appropriate level of discussion on the AAA SCs. The introduction should be looked at to make sure it is complete enough.
14:47:01 <korn> q+
14:48:11 <andisnow> ack g
14:49:45 <Judy> q+
14:51:41 <andisnow> ack da
14:51:44 <MaryJo> The level AAA SCs will also likely be difficult and time consuming for the task force to get through.  Just trying to explore the SCs and figure out what they mean would be a long process.
14:51:44 <andisnow> ack mi
14:55:13 <David> q+
14:55:34 <MaryJo> We need to put this decision in a survey so that we can document a resolution for it and take the decision forward to the WCAG working group.
14:55:50 <andisnow> ack judy
14:55:50 <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to clarify my earlier comment and to
14:56:21 <andisnow> ack korn
14:56:37 <David> q-
14:57:09 <MaryJo> So to be consistent, it is best to remove the AAA SCs from the closed products section.
14:57:18 <korn> M376 doesn't include this on the list. This is an AAA SC.
14:57:18 <korn> RESOLUTION: drop this SC from the list.
14:57:18 <korn> Rationale: This version of WCAG2ICT doesn't address any AAA SC.
14:57:18 <korn> -5Apr13.
14:58:51 <MaryJo> In the introduction we can say that we aren't covering AAA SCs in this document, and state that there may be useful techniques in these SC that are applicable to non-web content.
14:59:18 <MaryJo> SC 2.4.2 Page Titled - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x245
14:59:26 <korn> M376 doesn't include this on the list, and further doesn't apply this SC to software.
14:59:26 <korn> No Change.
14:59:26 <korn> Rationale: This SC is applied by WCAG2ICT, and is about 'making  information available in text', which is one of our criteria for being  on the "Closed List".
14:59:26 <korn> -5Apr13.
14:59:51 <andisnow> q+
15:00:46 <korn> "M376 draft doesn't..."?
15:01:24 <korn> q+
15:01:30 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:01:31 <MaryJo> We need to put in the beginning of our comparison that what version of M376 we were comparing to.
15:02:24 <Zakim> -Mike_P
15:02:55 <andisnow> WCAG2ICT text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 does not include this SC on the closed functionality list and does not apply it to software or documents. WCAG2ICT describes why this SC connects to AT.
15:04:10 <andisnow> ack a
15:04:45 <Zakim> +??P1
15:04:47 <andisnow> ack k
15:06:16 <David> +1
15:06:38 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
15:06:46 <MaryJo> We're going to add 'draft' when referring to M376 and WCAG2ICT documents.
15:08:19 <MaryJo> This only needs to be done in the last column of the table.
15:08:49 <korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 draft does not include this SC on the closed functionality list and does not apply it to software or documents. WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.
15:08:49 <korn> No Change.
15:08:49 <korn> Rationale: This SC is applied by draft WCAG2ICT, and is about 'making information available in text', which is one of our criteria for being on the "Closed List".
15:08:49 <korn> -5Apr13.
15:09:15 <korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT. M376 draft does not include this SC on the closed functionality list and does not apply it to software or documents. WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.
15:09:15 <korn> No Change.
15:09:15 <korn> Rationale: This SC is applied by WCAG2ICT draft, and is about 'making information available in text', which is one of our criteria for being on the "Closed List".
15:09:15 <korn> -5Apr13.
15:09:36 <korn> ----------- Look above ------------
15:11:09 <MaryJo> SC 3.1.1 Language of page - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x155
15:11:13 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:11:29 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:11:32 <David_> David_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:12:01 <korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT.  M376 draft notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC. WCAG2ICT describes potential text rendering limitations in closed.
15:12:02 <korn> No change. 
15:12:02 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT draft does not have specific provisions for closed functionality. WCAG2ICT draft text is helpful.
15:12:02 <korn> -5Apr13. 
15:13:17 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:13:39 <korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT.  M376 draft notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.
15:13:39 <korn> No change. 
15:13:39 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT draft does not have specific provisions for closed functionality. WCAG2ICT draft text is helpful.
15:13:39 <korn> -5Apr13. 
15:14:33 <MaryJo> SC 3.1.2 Language of parts - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#xq10
15:14:57 <MaryJo> This looks a lot like 2.4.2
15:16:18 <MaryJo> The final column in the wiki shows the text we'll be using.
15:18:43 <MaryJo> We will apply the same text to 3.3.1.
15:20:06 <korn> WCAG2ICT draft text describes the problematic issue when applying this SC to closed functionality of non-web ICT.  WCAG2ICT draft describes why this SC connects to AT.
15:20:07 <korn> No change. 
15:20:07 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT draft text is helpful.
15:20:07 <korn> -5Apr13. 
15:20:26 <MaryJo> SC 4.1.1 Parsing and 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x411 and https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#x412
15:20:39 <MaryJo> Above text would be for these last two SC.
15:24:10 <MaryJo> General Comments - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results#xGeneral
15:24:18 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:25:13 <andisnow> ack g
15:25:20 <Loic> q+
15:26:54 <Mike_P> q+
15:27:25 <Loic> q-
15:27:28 <Judy> q+
15:28:16 <MaryJo> Anyone who participates in the national bodies reviewing Me76 can use the comments, but should not quote these rationales as coming from the WCAG2ICT task force.
15:28:38 <korn> q+
15:28:58 <andisnow> ack m
15:29:08 <MaryJo> s /Me76/M376/
15:30:05 <Kiran_Kaja> +1
15:30:26 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:34:58 <MaryJo> There shouldn't be any general introductory comments/observations on M376 that we add to the document.
15:35:11 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:35:25 <Zakim> -Judy
15:36:04 <MaryJo> topic: Remaining items to address
15:36:19 <MaryJo> Remaining 4 SC for software and documents
15:37:00 <Zakim> -Loic
15:37:01 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
15:37:01 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:37:02 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:37:03 <Zakim> -Ben_and_Gregg
15:37:07 <Zakim> -??P1
15:37:09 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:37:10 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:37:10 <Zakim> Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, [Microsoft], Kiran_Kaja, Ben_and_Gregg, Judy, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Peter_Korn, Loic, Mike_P, David_MacDonald
15:37:18 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
15:38:12 <andisnow> andisnow has left #wcag2ict
15:38:19 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
15:38:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:38:24 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/05-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
15:40:19 <MaryJo> s /ack ??p17//
15:43:11 <MaryJo> chair: Mike_Pluke
15:43:25 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/05-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
15:47:45 <Mike_P> Mike_P has left #wcag2ict
16:44:50 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has left #wcag2ict