See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 04 April 2013
<allanj> title: UAWG telecon 4 April 2013
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components
<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0041.html
<allanj> Discussion of new rendering engines: Blink, Servo. and industry realignment. and existing engines...webkit, IE, etc.
zakin, agenda?
Conformance requirements for platform - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/
Conformance survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components
Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0041.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0004.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0004.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html
GL: discussing item 6 - host web browser - not numbered
EH: May not be a correct
transcription from the editors versions - should be a separate
item.
... thinks OS etc is already covered under #2
KP: which parts are new - which old - first 'bunch the same' lets not look at these
GL: different from what JR had - this new one in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html is now confusing.
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130328/MasterUAAG20130404.html#conformance-req-components
EH: - for each software component list name, manufacturer, version, config changes.
- more 'thinking on the hoof'
EH: discussion re zero software platform - ?
SH: is firmware not software?
EH/GL: reconfirms - software component - elaborate where it affects the browser examples should be OS, other Software environments, and other catch all - name, manufacturer, version, config changes
<allanj> 2. Version of key software components (e.g., operating system, 'host' web browser, other software environment)
GL: channeling JR (who isn't here) re best presentation method - list or paragraph
JA: we may be loosing stuff as erics comes from the draft while we have minutes from last week not yet integrated...
<Greg> This was Jan's proposal in email (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0087.html):
<Greg> Platform: Provide relevant information regarding the software and/or hardware platform(s) on which the user agent depends for conformance. This information may include:
<Greg> - hardware limitations (e.g., audio output enabled, minimum screen size: 2")
<Greg> - operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2)
<Greg> - other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+)
<Greg> - "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+)
JA: list seem prescriptive - paragraph don't - EH tends to agree
KP - likes Jans list
<Greg> By contrast, here's the version from Greg, Kim and Eric that Jan suggested replacing with the above:
<Greg> 8. Platform: Include the name, manufacturer, and version information of operating system, operating environment, and/or application on which the user agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a hosting web browser, and...
<Greg> ...Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g. minimum screen...
<Greg> ...size, audio output).
GL: now moving to editorial -
should we not delegate to the editors - as long as we can make
sure no technical errors introduced into it.
... lets not do this on the conference call...
<allanj> ACTION: jeanne to add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-812 - Add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].
EH: comment on platform hardware - indicated an intention that it is mandatory to list limitations or hardware - the platforms would be option - name manufacturer hardware number (version etc). All I was going to list was at the end of #2 '(optional)'
GL: now seems to be more prominent than platform software.
EH: hardware is mandatory - software may not be.
SH: as a say - firmware?
EH: should be able to say more than the minimum.
JS: seems like we are suggesting they list that they tested this on a 'Dell' with windows 8
EH: only manditory listing hardware limitations - other would be optional.
JS: so #2 would be optional
EH: yes
<jeanne> 6.1.2 (Optional) Other information about the platform hardware (e.g., name and manufacturer and version number of the hardware components)
GL: though the other version has clearer on this point
EH: happy to change
<jeanne> 6.a.1 Key hardware limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device [What about input devices]).
<jeanne> 6.a.1 Key hardware limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device, any input hardware restrictions).
<allanj> 6.a.2 Other optional information about the platform hardware (e.g., name and manufacturer and version number of the hardware components)
RESOLUTION: Allow editors (or their delegates) to make changes and present changes - to all before 7 - as they see fit, back to the group.
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130328/MasterUAAG20130404.html#conformance-req-components
Discussing preposition for #7 as described in new KP/JS work above - against EH version.
EH: maybe impossible to specify the elements that are not included in the set.
GL: gives example of including HTML5 and excluding (say) MathML Exemplar Only
EH: was not clear to me - burdomsome requirement to describe what they don't support
<Greg> I thought the idea is that they list the web technologies they support, and identify which are supported conforming and which are supported non-conforming.
<jeanne> In the case of video codex, that it would be very difficult to list what codexes are not accessible.
EH: thought that people would specify what they where relaying on to meet conformance
<Greg> Are video codices "web technologies"?
SH: at least one technology has to be listed in the conformance claim right...?
EH: could try and refine what I
was trying to get at in my edits
... the content technologies may not be relied upon to meet the
claim.
GL: Discussion re clarification of this.
SH Obviously if this isn't clear to us - it wont be to others...
<Greg> The wording in the editor's draft seems clear to me...
s/fri/fyi
EH/GL: Still trying to understand each other.
RESOLUTION: EH to try to make this more explicit and clarify the points.
Action Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes'
<trackbot> Error finding 'Eric_Hansen'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.
<allanj> original: Declarations: For each success criterion: A declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied; or a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not.
<allanj> proposed: Declarations: Provide, for each success criterion, a declaration of either (a) whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or (b) a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not. Refer to Note ABC for further information on determining which success criteria may not be applicable.
<scribe> ACTION: 'member:Eric_Hansen' to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Eric_Hansen'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.
<allanj> ACTION: Eric to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-813 - 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [on Eric Hansen - due 2013-04-11].
Comment location: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html
<allanj> comment from Eric: note ABC Platform: Include the name, manufacturer, and version information of operating system, operating environment, and/or application on which the user agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a...
<allanj> ...hosting web browser, and Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g
<allanj> . minimum screen size, audio output).
EH removing #8 from eric's document
RESOLUTION: Edits to be made
Conformance survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components
<scribe> Done
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results#xq12
3-happy / 2 - changes / 1 neutral
Jan says Neutral - In ATAG, the vendors said they wouldn't use such a thing.
as legal people would never permit it
Not include? All concure
RESOLUTION: Delete "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement
<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-814 - Remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].
JS: proposes - Partial Conformance
two conditions to address use cases 6 (extensions) and 8 (platform restrictions) Suggest Jan's original partial conformance proposal for extensions and platforms. (Not the example for full browsers with missing SC.)
Eric Hansen - makes propositions but these have been covered and addressed (JA)
EH: would suggest that as I drafted the other piece - can people look at this - see if anything should be added from the list here to clarify the point in #7/#8
<allanj> scribe: jallan
<allanj> js: partial conformance - two conditions to address use cases 6 (extensions) and 8 (platform restrictions) - see Jan's proposal.
<allanj> ACTION: jallan to revisit partial conformance for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-815 - Revisit partial conformance for next week [on Jim Allan - due 2013-04-11].
<allanj> close item 2
<allanj> open item 3
<allanj> ACTION: jeanne to make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-816 - Make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/as/has/ FAILED: s/fri/fyi/ No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: sharper Found Scribe: jallan Default Present: Eric, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, sharper Present: Eric Jeanne Jim_Allan Greg_Lowney Kim_Patch sharper Regrets: kelly Jan Found Date: 04 Apr 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: 'member:eric_hansen' to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html#action02] People with action items: eric eric_hansen jallan jeanne WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]