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<trackbot> Date: 20 March 2013
<janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
<janina> scribe: Jason_White
<MichaelC> scribeNick: jasonjgw
<andy> I think I can fix the stuttering - I'm going to drop off and come straight back
Janina reminds participants to be mindful of the changing time zones and summarizes pending time shifts.
Minor changes and clarifications to the Events module based on comments on the list.
User contexts: major revisions since last meeting based on feedback from working group participants.
<jcraig> Change summary list: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/
The most interesting points of departure may be comments made in the survey.
James outlines the change summary.
These changes include keys in various sections of User Contexts.
He notes potential discussion topics including spec highlighting and keys for light on dark colour contrast.
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/2013-03-20/results
This is the survey item reviewing general preference keys.
Michael notes that some items relate to user preferences and others to what is running on the system; he suggests making these independent.
James notes that inverse colour is used by people with disabilities; it can be set in some operating systems. Exposing the preference allows the Web application to take this preference into account
for example to invert images or text; letting the application know how content is being displayed in the user's environment/context.
<andy_> lost audio - is it me ?
James gives a further example: captions in HTML 5 video players. The preference assertion allows custom displays of such captions, which is additional to what the UA is already configured to do when captions are enabled.
Michael would like to be clear about whether a preference or a system state is being expressed and suggests we may have parallel properties for both.
James suggests that the distinction between preferences and settings could be reflected in naming conventions.
Rich notes that invert colours is a setting on certain systems (e.g., MacOS) whereas white on black is a request to the application.
<andy_> Putting the meaning in the name ties it to the architecture
Janina suggests choosing particularly significant issues from the survey given the time this is requiring and the number of survey items with their responses.
<andy_> for example what about a device that cannot do invertedColours but we still want invertedColours delivered to it
<andy_> there may be not so many devices but this is a general issue that can apply to other prefs
<andy_> if the prefs are as useful as we think they will be then consider the Internet of Things, where devices are not necessarily tablets or smartphones
James notes that having two keys: white on black and black on white, respectively, is confusing if both booleans are true. He offers a dark on light/light on dark proposal.
Michael suggests the idea of a contrast setting.
Michael's comment was based on Rich and Andy's proposals.
<andy_> guys - can you respond to my point please
Rich queries the concept of point of regard as a preference.
<andy_> something might be a preference on one device and a setting on a different one
<andy_> depending on the functionalities of the device
James clarifies: this is a key that receives a state value which refers to a DOM element; it is not a preference but rather a value that reflects the current state. Maybe it needs to be reclassified - perhaps not as a key.
Active element refers to keyboard focus (including screen reader/eye tracking software focus) - active element for AT.
Rich suggests clarifying the distinction (point of regard/active element) in the definitions.
There is discussion of point of regard in relation to scroll views and custom controls.
<andy_> yes it was michael
Michael returns us to the inverted colours comments.
<andy_> ok
<andy_> the two things about inverted colours are
<andy_> 1. is the setting true
<andy_> 2. has the device done something
James suggests that the comments can be handled by distinguishing inverted colours from, e.g., light on dark which is a preference rather than a setting.
<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to clarify difference between "preference" and "state setting"; adopt naming convention of keys [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-indie-ui-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Clarify difference between "preference" and "state setting"; adopt naming convention of keys [on James Craig - due 2013-03-27].
<andy_> me back
He clarifies: proposal is a boolean; true = light on dark, false the opposite, and null value for no preference.
<andy_> AAAAAArghhhhhh!!!! its hotel intornet
Discussion of comments on font sizes, where it isn't possible to choose a font size that is consistent on all devices.
<andy_> [9:34pm]
Rich suggests a small/medium/large classification which can then be mapped to different fonts for different devices.
James clarifies his proposal to connect font sizes to CSS pixel values, which, Michael notes, are not relative to a device according to current definitions.
There is discussion of priorities for the remainder of the call.
<andy_> I didn't get time to look at the value-pairs thing properly
<andy_> can we defer this to the next call to give me time to review it properly
Rich proposes to develop the system setting/user preference taxonomy off-line.
<jcraig> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-context.html#MediaAlternativeKeys
<jcraig> These are now "Media Alternative Settings" b/c they include audioDescription as well.
Michael: survey responses indicate the need for a "sign language" language preference.
<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to add preference for signLanguageDialect (preferred list of ISO-specced lang codes: ASL, etc) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-indie-ui-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Add preference for signLanguageDialect (preferred list of ISO-specced lang codes: ASL, etc) [on James Craig - due 2013-03-27].
Michael suggests referring to another spec for language codes.
<andy_> CoveringForJason: would rather specify "language code according to standard X" and not give the detail
James and Michael discuss ISO specifications and what the appropriate reference should be (for the language codes).
<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to change ISO-639 and ISO-3166 to BCP 47 http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/bcp/bcp47.txt [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-indie-ui-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Change ISO-639 and ISO-3166 to BCP 47 http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/bcp/bcp47.txt [on James Craig - due 2013-03-27].
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to discuss caption versus subtitle
Rich suggests using the term "captions" rather than "subtitles", in line with related standards/specifications.
<andy_> they are used by different camps of people
James clarifies: subtitles include foreign language subtitles as well as open and closed captions. Sometimes, only captions for one language can appear in a single media file. The purpose of designating them as "subtitles" in the spec is to be more inclusive.
<andy_> if this argument is valid so subtitles is better we should disseminate this to the other groups
Rich suggests explaining this use of vocabulary, as it departs from other accessibility-related specifications in this respect.
James offers to clarify.
<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to clarify reason for using "subtitle" superset term as opposed to "captions" subset [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-indie-ui-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Clarify reason for using "subtitle" superset term as opposed to "captions" subset [on James Craig - due 2013-03-27].
<andy_> @Katie In a future version there may be lots of properties like that
Katie notes that the sign language preferences do and should allow avatars and video of human signing to be provided in satisfaction of the preference.
Michael proposes to take one of his comments off-line as it may have been entered under the wrong item.
<andy_> Guys - when the survey came around I didn't understand the context of it - I thought it was beyond the group participants
<jcraig> UIManipulationRequests: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-events.html#UIManipulationRequestEvent
<andy_> Guys - I didn't do the survey because I didn't understand the context of it - I may have some comments still to make
James notes the option to invoke an external taxonomy for more detailed preferences not representable in the vocabulary defined by the spec itself.
<andy_> That's not the purpose of them
<jcraig> ISSUE: discuss "prefers big click targets"
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-11 - Discuss "prefers big click targets"; please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/11/edit>.
Michael proposes to take the "use cases for identifying AT" topic to the requirement/use case analysis, which is to take place anyway.
<andy_> I KNOW NOW
<andy_> So please don't close all these off
<andy_> :-)
<andy_> ok
<richardschwerdtfeger> not making decisions about the survey
<andy_> sorry about my crap sound
<richardschwerdtfeger> np
<Ryladog> np
<richardschwerdtfeger> where are you btw?
<andy_> ty
<andy_> paris
<andy_> yes
Michael clarifies in response to a question from Andy that the survey was created simply to collect comments to be brought to the meeting; any survey used for decision-making will be identified as such very prominently.
<andy_> Thankyou Michael
James clarifies that it is not intended to reveal the use of an AT to a Web application without the user's consent.
Michael closes the meeting, noting the April 3 next meeting.
<andy_> bye, thankyou
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Jason_White Found ScribeNick: jasonjgw Default Present: Janina_Sajka, Jason_White, Michael_Cooper, +1.412.901.aaaa, Rich_Simpson, Andy_Heath, +1.408.423.aabb, hober, Rich, jcraig, +1.703.861.aacc, Katie_Haritos-Shea Present: Janina_Sajka Jason_White Michael_Cooper +1.412.901.aaaa Rich_Simpson Andy_Heath +1.408.423.aabb hober Rich jcraig +1.703.861.aacc Katie_Haritos-Shea Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0035.html Found Date: 20 Mar 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-indie-ui-minutes.html People with action items: jcraig WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]