Minutes: TPAC 2012 Plenary Day

31 October 2012

People conversing at TPAC


Nearby: TPAC 2012 Plenary wiki and agenda · IRC log

<fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki

W3C Update

<Steven> Slides

Jeff: The Web is moving to a rich, full fledged programing environment
... based on standards
... cross platform applications
... the current web is the most interoperable platform we had so far
... HTML5 has the most attention in the media
... many other specs are here too
... ranging from geo location
... linked data
... cross-device
... there are issues on privacy addressed with tracking protection wg
... and other areas like accessibility, multilingual etc.
... we had an AC meeting in Sophia Antipolis
... I said that the open web platform is here already
... lots of impressive number about the usage of HTML5 today - although it is not a standard yet
... for talking to developers what to do next, we need to know where we are now
... is this early experimenting, or are we already done with so much uptake
... we discussed that yesterday at the AC meeting
... we looked at a standard innovation life cycle

Jeff: our very detailed analysis showed that we are at the early part of the lifecycle
... but we are also at a level of maturity that means we need to think about next steps
... in the innovation phase you think about new ideas etc.
... in the early adopter phase you drive discussions on usage
... today's discussion is our initial reading of what people say about the open web platform
... gartner analysis shows that HTML5 is in the top of strategic technology trends for 2013
... "mobile applications and HTML5" are no. 2 of the trends
... we are right behind "mobile device battles"
... recent forester report (copies available) which also talks about HTML5: evolutionary, not revolutionary
... not sure that I agree, but got to hear that
... and other analysts terms
... interesting about this: a lot of these reports are for eBusiness professionals
... that shows: this is a core technology for enterprises as well
... it has everything you want!
... but now a reality check:
... various statements from Reuters, Appcelerator/IDC, Mark Zuckerberg
... such statements are natural

Jeff: it is the nature of the cycle: innovation, early adoption, some dissolution
... what does the majority say?
... open web platform it is a good platform but:
... need to do various things, like: close the gap with native platforms
... achieve broad interop, and meet requirements of adjacent industries
... a sharp analysis, to be a bit provocative
... in the breakout sessions we want to bring up new ideas
... today is the opportunity to go across working groups
... we need to think about next work agenda for the open web platform
... where do we get ideas from? Need to talk to other people than ourselves
... we have to listen to other groups, workshops to reach out to new stakeholders, developers, media analysts
... enhancing the core means in my view: performance, capability, interop
... next week 8 November there is a W3C workshop on performance
... aspects of the topic: tooling, memory usage, frame rate, scrolling, hardware acceleration
... Paul Bakaus to web performance WG: javascript performance, memory info, scrolling, touch events, smooth animation, unload images etc.
... so one suggestion for the breakout sessions is to discuss performance issues
... next topic capability
... participated in webapps f2f meeting. Very productive meeting
... demand to close the gap with native, a lot to do here
... specific industries are looking into open web platform
... e.g. web and TV, web signage
... this week we get e.g. web signage people talk to other groups about technical issues
... or getting disaster information just in time, or making use of location based services

Jeff: automotive is another important area to bring, workshop in Rome coming up
... about publishing industry a workshop in New York in November
... next topic: interoperability
... AC says: do we need to change our process of testing
... how does that impact HTML WG and modularization efforts
... other upcoming workshops: digital marketing, privacy, potentially television
... now birds-eye view on idea flow: from requirements / features / issues via breakouts to concrete technical decisions
... like creating extensions / modules / APIs
... or new ideas discussed in workshops
... HTML is not a monolith
... HTML5 2014 will have a core spec and extensions
... that might be part of the core spec at some point
... but will go forward on their own schedule
... some new ideas are about new markets and using the Web
... we are interested in your ideas about new ideas & workshops
... closing with what I learned in discussions with the developer community
... 1 1/2 months ago announced webplatform.org
... browser vendors said: we have so much (educational) content, why not share it and work on it together?
... thanks to Adobe, Apple, Facebook, Google, HP, Microsoft, Mozilla, Nokia, Opera for being stewards in this
... Doug Schepers has talked to many of these and moved this forward
... a lot of uptake of the site
... thanks to all your support, will work with the community to make this a valuable resource for developers and designers
... community groups a big success in terms of bringing people not yet engaged in W3C to the table
... training and tools efforts: w3cdev campus, w3conf 2013 (coming soon), and validator work
... summary: glad to see that you are here
... happy that in Santa Clara we had a record attendance of 475 people
... this week we have 480 in Lyon, a new record
... thanks a lot for all for participating
... we had great meetings Mo / Tue, looking forward to the rest of the week
... Ian will now come to discuss new work

[question about next year's TPAC]

jeff: not confirmed yet, we are exploring China
... we will let you know asap
... China for lot of our existing community is far, but for our new community it is near

<bgidon> scribe: bgidon

New and upcoming work

Marylin Siderwicz

Web Performance Workshop, Philippe Le Hégaret

SVG 2, WOFF 2, Chris Lilley

Pointer Events, Doug Schepers

Web Platform Docs, Doug Schepers

Publishing, Ivan Herman

TAG, Jeni Tennison

Ian: intro to breakout sessions
... we want to have one session on new work
... Ph intro

PLH: web performance

[web performance]

PLH: what's next

[what's next]

PLH: survey process, some results
... workshop next week

[web performance workshop]

PLH: you are welcome to join

Ian: any questions? [none] Move to Chris

ChrisL: SVG2, WOFF2


[SVG2 Reuse of CSS]

[New Features]

ChrisL: I want to focus on 1 or 2 subjects
... Mesh with examples
... SVG2 Mesh, description of features

[Mesh like Tables]

ChrisL: WOFF2, evolution now with 40% less bytes

JeniT: TAG presentation


JeniT: Working draft to be reviewed, how the Web works for the lawyers
... 2nd subject: Best practices for Fragment Identifiers and Media type Definitions
... help the TAG

[Help the Tag]

JeniT: TAG members have their yellow badges, contact us
... we are there
... we will have elections with 4 seats for new members
... talk to us, be involved
... election is open now

IvanH: no slides
... half of people using devices to read books, news
... we see the publishing moving digital
... we want to see how this industry is moving
... we have several contacts in the industry to move on some workshops to define focus
... we have identified several projects with key players working on the publishing area
... ebooks, scientific, metadata issues, subjects
... we will organize workshops: 1st one on eBooks in Feb 2013 in NY
... another one planned afterwards
... during 2013 or 2014
... welcome to join us to discuss the subject in a breakout session today

DougS: I am Doug !!!!
... I have 2 presentations...maybe

[Pointer events]

DougS: Mouse events description

[Mouse Events]

DougS: Touch event intro

[Touch Events]

DougS: Description of the features target, V1 and V2
... some downsides

[Touch Events Downsides]

DougS: Indie-UI events in parallel

[IndieUI Events]

DougS: high level event

<Steven> Finally!

DougS: Pointer Events Model

[Pointer Events]

DougS: Introduced by Microsoft
... description of the features

[Pointer Events Properties]

[What's Next]

DougS: WAI integration

Glenn Adams: why a new WG?

DougS: We wanted to be focused

DougS: second presentation, I am still Doug

DougS: last year we launched some discussion with key players


DougS: The place for Web technologies
... description of the target and the the focus in line with the resources
... wiki available
... main section is reference materials
... and the tutorial materials
... participation requested
... WG can benefit from there
... translations
... feedback page
... admins
... what is the future, expand the content
... live examples

Systematic compatibility tables

DougS: API: in and Out
... How to integrate Data
... Stickers available

Breakout Sessions

Breakout sessions slide

Online session grid.

<npdoty_> "everybody's gonna rush the stage"

<fsasaki> no scribing here, everybody will just "break out" ...

<koalie> Ian: 10 rooms for breakout sessions, in addition to the plenary room.

<Steven> link to guidance page?

<jcverdie> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2012/FAQ#What_is_good_practice_for_organizing_a_session.3F

<npdoty_> faq: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2012/FAQ

<Steven> Why is this good?:

<Steven> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_(development)

<matt> scribe: matt

Breakout Session Reports

Breakout sessions reports, Jeni Tennison and Ian Jacobs

fantasai: We talked about how specs should feel when you are looking at it. I'm doing a survey.

<inserted> Minutes of Restyle

fantasai: Please followup on the spec-prod list.

<fantasai> http://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle

IanJ: We had a redesign effort years ago, and we got screamed at because we modified the old specs, so FYI, don't do that.

plh: My session was about the /TR/ page, the one page with all of our specs on it.
... It was updated more than 2500 times since 1995
... How many people use /TR? But it appears not many people in my limited experience are using /TR. One thing mentioned was that since it became dynamic it was way too much information.

<ArtB> w3.org/ED/

plh: One consensus we reached in the room was being able to find the latest version as agreed by the WG on /TR, like latest snapshot.
... Regarding process, it'd be nice to have a one-click process.
... In 2007 someone said it took 86 days to publish a document.
... More recent data was 50 days from time it took from consent to publish to appearing in /TR/
... Yes, pub rules is painful.
... Some said it wasn't so painful after all.

<Josh_Soref> plh's Redesigning /TR

plh: For more feedback, come cry to me.

<olivier> no breakout will be successful without a community group or two created as a result

plh: Spec prod is probably the mailing list to use to continue this discussion.

IanJ: What do you mean by dynamic?

plh: You have to click to discover.

Marcos: Responsive images
... We are a community group presenting along with some browser reps some ideas and use cases around responsive images.
... Go to responsiveimages.org to see use cases.
... The meeting was good in the sense that we hashed out the differences between the design community and the browsers.
... To frame it simply, designers want to have control. That's because we've become accustomed to CSS media queries which allows us per-pixel control.
... From browser vendor view it can have a negative impact if designers are not careful.

<Josh_Soref> Minutes from Responsive Images

Marcos: Go to responsiveimages.org to find twitter feed, github, etc.

Claes: We are interested in Web applications being able to find services locally. The current specific supports discovery of services in the cloud.

<koalie> Web Intents and Web Intents for local services

Claes: Web intents should be able to discover local services, rather than just in the cloud.
... We've created a proposal for ways to do that with Web Intents, those supporting UPNP or DLNA.

IanJ: Discussion continues where?

Josh_Soref: WebApps and DAP - Web Intents Task Force

StevenP: A dozen of us got together to discuss markup language for change tracking. While we met we created a community group. http://www.w3.org/community/change/

<koalie> Change Tracking Markup Community Group

StevenP: If you are interested have a look, there are already ten members.

<koalie> Breakout: How to be a good chair [Minutes]

chaals: We ran a session on how to be a better chair. First thing that was obvious was that the chair needs to anticipate the group going in a completely different direction. I prepared for a discussion, many came for answers.
... We came out with a few basic things: talk to people, talk to the AC rep of participants, talk to each other. Don't spend too much time bashing your heads, but take a break, let it calm down and get it back to technical issues. Very useful to have a co-chair. Have ArtB be your co-chair.

<timeless> [ Applause ]

<koalie> ArtB++

chaals: There is a chairs mailing list to follow-up on. If you're a chair, be on it. We should spend more time talking as chairs about how to do the right things.

<koalie> Chairs mailing list archive

chaals: There's also the Modern Guide activity. There's the Chairs' guidebook: http://www.w3.org/Guide/

chaals: Currently contains process things and instructions on what to do and a whole lot of guidance and some shared experiences. Look there. IanJ is the guy to go to for the Modern Guide.

<koalie> public-modernguide mailing list archive

<ArtB> Bring Beer!

chaals: And be nice to people.

IanJ: Follow-up at ArtB's house!
... Modern Guide met as well, see me if you're interested in it, I'd be happy to have you join the project.

<koalie> Breakout: Modern Guide [wiki]

IanJ:The Community Groups breakout session met. I presented some data on where we are today, some of the questions that have come up about policy and transfer of docs from CG to WG.

<koalie> Breakout: Community Groups [wiki]

IanJ: There were 15-20 of us and most thought it be important that there is a distinction between CG and WG docs and that it be obvious.
... If we had Best Practices and starting point guides that would be useful and a place we should put effort going forward.

IanJ: Chairs selection came up, and there was more to discuss there.
... The speed of implementing some of the nice changes we have in terms of UI, documentation, etc. We only have a small amount of resources dedicated to CGs and if you think it's important let us know.

tantek: Let's have a round of applause

<Josh_Soref> [ Applause ]

tantek: If you didn't lead a session, consider leading one next time. You learn a lot.

tantek: I heard feedback that there were general questions. Let's open the floor to QA.

tantek: [No questions.]

IanJ: I'd like to thank the TPAC committee who worked hard on this. Really makes for a great day.

Closing statement

Jeff: Last year Tim did the wrap-up and was very animated. One of the things that he said was this is your consortium, and I'm happy to see examples of that.
... I'd like to start by echoing Tantek's characterization of the awesome chairs of the sessions today.
... What he Tantek couldn't do was acknowledging himself.
... Thanks Tantek and IanJ for pulling the breakout camp together.

<tantek> thanks for the opportunity to participate Jeff.

Jeff: Steven already has 10 participants in his CG; that was great. Thanks!

Jeff: And thanks to team contacts

Jeff: I've been told by many people that for an organization and conference this size, the logistics have been flawless.
... There are a whole category of people who deserve credit. I'll start chronologically. We had a fantastic meet up in downtown Lyon, 300 people were there. That was Marie-Claire's brain child.
... I think most of us like the fact that during these meetings we're constantly on IRC, the Web, everywhere. We have an incredible systems team that support us throughout the year and give us great support. I'd like to thank Ted, Vivien and Jean-Gui.
... Thank you all!
... Meeting planners aren't here at the moment. Let's talk about the feedback form. It's linked from the meetings page.

<koalie> reminder: there's a feedback survey for y'all: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/tpac2012-feedback/

Jeff: We're approaching elections next week in the U.S. One of the major theme is do you want more government service or less? Most want more. Another theme is less taxes or more. Most want less. This is why the economies of all of our participants are in the toilet.
... We love our breakouts. We had 40 breakouts and I'm sure we want more.
... We love the fact that the breakouts are as long as possible. We'd like to make them longer, two hour breakouts.

[[some "no" and "yes" shoutouts]]

<tantek> really happy with the pace of the day

Jeff: When you fill out the feedback form, try to make it as closed loop as possible. At the end of the day the program committee struggles with how many, how long and how many in parallel.

fantasai: I think you did a great job, the slots were just filled.

Jeff: Meeting planners did an astounding job.

Jeff: The major person who brought this all together is Alexandra.


Jeff: She has worked non-stop since last TPAC in Lyon. We have an organized process of how to get signed up, etc, and I can't tell you how many exceptions there were to the process and she handled them all flawlessly. Alex does a lot by herself single handedly, but she does have a team that helps her.
... I'd like to recognize others: Amy, Maria, Caroline, Coralie and Susan, please stand up and be recognized.


Jeff: The logistics for tonight… 6:30 right outside here is where we will get together for a reception this evening.
... We have not yet finalized TPAC 2013, likely China, but not finalized.
... Thank you and have a good evening!

[[Thanks to Jeff!]]