Forms Working Group Teleconference

19 Sep 2012


See also: IRC log


nvdbleek, [IPcaller], John_Boyer, Steven_, Alain
Erik, Philip, Kurt


<trackbot> Date: 19 September 2012

<scribe> Scribe: Steven

XForms course, November 2012 in Rockville, Maryland


Steven: This is just a heads up.

Community Group


Steven: WHo could chair, now Leigh is gone?

John: Michael SperbergMcQueen?

Steven: Hmmm. I'll ask him



Steven: More of a heads up, for people who may be interested. Definitely of interest for XFOrms

repeat index change



<nvdbleek> http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/doc/developer-guide/xforms-events#TOC-xxforms-index-changed

Steven: We have 2 implementations, but we didn't actually resolve to adopt

John: [discusses use case]

Nick: It may not be enough to detect changes in the UI

John: True, because the data may change under the index, without changing the index

Steven: But in that case, you can still catch that

<nvdbleek> This is also a really handy event http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/doc/developer-guide/xforms-events#TOC-xxforms-value-changed

Steven: Blue-skying this, ideally you would have a special instance that holds the indexes, and then use a constraint.

John: True... we even say something along those lines in the discussion of the index() function

Steven: Is there a general design that we could try for?

John: THe spec text is already there.

Steven: Are you suggesting I can do a bind already?

Nick: Yes

John: Yes

<bind nodeset="index('myrepeat')" ...

Steven: like that?

<nvdbleek> <xf:output value="row[index('my-repeat')]/help"/>

<John_Boyer> output or bind ref=some/node[index('X')]

John: Then when the index changes, those ref and values know they have to update

<John_Boyer> in bind case, it's a dynamic dep when in ref/nodeset but not when in calculate etc (MIPs)

<John_Boyer> a repeat index is backed by an implicit instance node

John: So technically we don't need the event
... there may be a separate issue around how many nodes are in a nodeset and how many of them are relevant
... I don't see so many repeat tables where some rows are non-relevant

Nick: We have the relevant() function in XForms 2.0

John: If you add valid() then all the other MIPS should be functions as well
... but valid() is the hardest to do

<nvdbleek> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-xforms-xpath-20120807/#The_valid.28.29_Function

<John_Boyer> because valid is confluence of MIPs like constraint plus things that are determined after recalculate (schema validity)

Nick: They are good candidates to add.

<John_Boyer> so if we added valid(), then there'd be no reason not to add relevant(), readonly() etc

Nick: I'll send an email proposing them.

<nvdbleek> http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/doc/developer-guide/xforms-xpath-functions#TOC-xxforms:valid-

Steven: Do we still want the events?

John: I think you talked us down from that
... It's just the secondary issues. that was a problem with the event version anyway.

<John_Boyer> the index() function gives us declarative updates rather than event-driven, which is weaker as you say, Steven

<nvdbleek> http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/doc/developer-guide/xforms-xpath-functions#TOC-xxforms:evaluate-bind-property-

function, variable and reserved namespaces


Steven: Anything more to discuss on this?

Nick: No, I think we agreed to this

<John_Boyer> definitely

ID resolution/clashes


Steven: If we had only used something other than ID...

John: What happens if we get a clash on loading the doc?

Nick: Non valid

John: In this case we *want* to allow ID clashes.

Nick: WIthout encapsulation, you can't embed it twice.
... you can't dispatch events to them

John: Otherwise we have to fix the IDs on loading

Steven: That solves the problem, but you still can't dispatch events

John: Will this be a real problem? Or can app designers account for it, and design appropriately?
... Some people have done this to solve the problem, but we really need a deeper solution for subforms
... this a bandaid, albeit a good one.
... we need to create something smarter.\


John: Regrets for next week.

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: nvdbleek, [IPcaller], John_Boyer, Steven_
Present: nvdbleek [IPcaller] John_Boyer Steven_ Alain
Regrets: Erik Philip Kurt
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Sep/0010
Found Date: 19 Sep 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/09/19-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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