See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 June 2012
<scribe> scribe: Andi
action-5?
<trackbot> ACTION-5 -- Gregg Vanderheiden to take issue to WCAG regarding 3.3.4 intent - did not intend that every web app that edits something has to have a confirmation before proceeding -- due 2012-06-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/5
GV: 4 items taken to WCAG working group this week. All approved.
<korn> Pierce: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/open
<Pierce> +q
AL: if we were starting new work, we should reword the success criteria but for now, this solves the issue with having to confirm on every save
PC: question about changes that have been made but not saved
GV: 3.3.4 is for catastrophic things - massively deleting data by mistake
RESOLOUTION: accept 3.3.4 Proposal #1 now that WCAG intent has been clarified
<Pierce> +q
<korn> I see 4 total open action items, at: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/open
action-9?
<trackbot> ACTION-9 -- Gregg Vanderheiden to work with with Peter Korn to create submission to WCAG to add text to 2.4.7 understanding doc to clarify focus indicator and single item issues -- due 2012-06-19 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/9
GV: text added to INTENT for 2.4.7
<Pierce> -q
<korn> We are looking at the text of: https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/2-operable/24-provide-ways-to-help-users-navigate-find-content-and-determine-where-they-are/247-focus-visible
RESOLUTION: Accept 2.4.7 Proposal #1 now that WCAG intent has been clarified
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jun/0037.html
<Pierce> +q
AS: two more items Gregg has resolved with WCAG working group
GV: 1.2.4 and 1.2.9 - intent clarified - not for personal calls between two or more people
RESOLUTION: Accept 1.2.4 Proposal #1 now that WCAG intent has been clarified
RESOLUTION: Accept notes for 1.2.2 that were approved for 1.2.4 at 5 June meeting
1.3.1 Information and relationships
MP: summarizes issues
<Pierce> +q
MP: Defer closed funcitonality in this pass
PC: Proposes removing software development toolkits from the note
NOTE: In software, programmatic determinability is best achieved through the use of accessibility services provided by platform software to enable interoperability between software and assistive technologies.
<greggvanderheiden> This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above).
<greggvanderheiden> NOTE: In software, programmatic determinability is best achieved through the use of accessibility services provided by platform software to enable interoperability between software and assistive technologies.
PK: perhaps we will find we need a glossary term for programmatically determined
GV: don't have a glossary but could put it in the introduction
RESOLUTION: Accept 1.3.1 as amended in the meeting
2.4.6 Headings and Labels
<Pierce> +q
<Pierce> +q
<mapluke> Note this gives no guidance about when headings and labels are required �just that if they are provided, they be descriptive.
<greggvanderheiden> Note that this success criterion does not REQUIRE heading and labels—just that if they are provided, they be descriptive. Also if headings are provided they must be programmatically determinable per 1.3.1.
<Pierce> +q
PC: concern that if we don't reference 1.3.1, people will think that heading markup is not required
RESOLUTION: Ask WCAG to clarify the INTENT as follows: Note that this success criterion does not REQUIRE heading and labels—just that if they are provided, they be descriptive. Also if headings are provided they must be programmatically determinable per 1.3.1.
<scribe> ACTION: Gregg to ask WCAG to clarify the INTENT as follows: Note that this success criterion does not REQUIRE heading and labels—just that if they are provided, they be descriptive. Also if headings are provided they must be programmatically determinable per 1.3.1. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/15-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Ask WCAG to clarify the INTENT as follows: Note that this success criterion does not REQUIRE heading and labels—just that if they are provided, they be descriptive. Also if headings are provided they must be programmatically determinable per 1.3.1. [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-06-22].
PK: concern about determining whether something is a label or a heading in software
MP: also an issue that arose in M376 discussions
<Pierce> +q
<scribe> ACTION: Peter to suggest a note for 2.4.6 with examples of headings and labels for software [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/15-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Suggest a note for 2.4.6 with examples of headings and labels for software [on Peter Korn - due 2012-06-22].
keep 2.4.6 open until we have the result from WCAG and the note from Peter
GV: does the concern apply to web applications too?
PK: possibly, good point
3.2.1 On Focus
MP: Loïc proposes replacing "user interface component" with "user interface element"
<Pierce> +q
PK: proposes note to clarify distinction between focus and selection
PC: concern that "selection" will be confused with "selection of text"
AS: when you select a UI element, focus always goes there
PK: purpose of note is to clarify something for developers who may not be familiar with terms. Not critical for WCAG2ICT. Withdraw note.
<mapluke> This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above), with the words �user interface element� substituted for "component".
AS: WCAG WG specifically did not use "element" because we didn't want to make it sound like we were only talking about HTML
<Pierce> +q
<Pierce> +q
MP: M376 team thought that in SW world, more people are familiar with "element" than "component"
KK: if we can say "user interface component", would be okay
PC: +1 to Kiran's
suggestion
... could put a note to say "this could also mean "user
interface element"
GV: use "user interface
component" seems to be a good suggestion - people used to "user
interface element" would not think these are different
... could also say "another common term is "user Interface
element"
<greggvanderheiden> What is meant by 'component' here is also sometimes called "user interface element" or 'user interface component"
<greggvanderheiden> Add note to 3.2.1 and after exiting note on 3.2.2 that reads NOTE: What is meant by 'component' here is also sometimes called "user interface element" or 'user interface component".
<scribe> ACTION: Gregg to Ask WCAG to clarify intent of 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 as follows: Add this note to 3.2.1 and to existing note on 3.2.2 "Note: What is meant by 'component' here is also sometimes called 'user interface element' or 'user interface component'." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/15-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - Ask WCAG to clarify intent of 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 as follows: Add this note to 3.2.1 and to existing note on 3.2.2 "Note: What is meant by 'component' here is also sometimes called 'user interface element' or 'user interface component'." [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-06-22].
RESOLUTION: Accept 3.2.1 Proposal #1
3.2.2 On Input
PK: David had a suggestion for a modification to the note
PC: Same comment on 3.2.1
GV: dynamic content could be an animated GIF - no programming or scripting
<Pierce> +q
MP: second proposal by David is much clearer
<Pierce> -q
RESOLUTION: Accept
3.2.2 Proposal #2
... Accept 3.2.1 Proposal #2 instead of Proposal #1 (change to
above resolution)
<Pierce> +q
<Pierce> -q
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/reuired/required/ Succeeded: s/1.3.3 Information and relationships/1.3.1 Information and relationships/ Succeeded: s/developemtn toolkits/development toolkits/ Succeeded: s/animate GIF/animated GIF/ Succeeded: s|https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/3-understandable/32-make-web-pages-appear-and-operate-in-predictable-ways/321-on-focus|| Found Scribe: Andi Inferring ScribeNick: Andi Default Present: +0162859aaaa, Andi_Snow_Weaver, +1.512.255.aabb, Shadi, Bruce_Bailey, +1.608.514.aacc, Cooper, korn, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Kiran_Kaja, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Alex_Li, Mike_Pluke, +1.410.965.aadd, Pierce_Crowell, Janina Present: +0162859aaaa Andi_Snow_Weaver +1.512.255.aabb Shadi Bruce_Bailey +1.608.514.aacc Cooper korn Gregg_Vanderheiden Kiran_Kaja Mary_Jo_Mueller Alex_Li Mike_Pluke +1.410.965.aadd Pierce_Crowell Janina Regrets: David_MacDonald Loïc_Martínez_Normand Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jun/0030.html Found Date: 15 Jun 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/15-wcag2ict-minutes.html People with action items: gregg peter WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]