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<MichaelC> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Date: 05 June 2012
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY292012/results>
<scribe> scribe: MaryJo
Judy: Suggested for minutes, send a link to them in email rather than static text snapshot to give opportunity for corrections.
<Andi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY292012/results#xq10
as: Continuing discussion on SC 1.2.4. Gregg's suggestion needs some changes, as it seems to contradict itself concerning the inclusion of live streaming information.
David: Suggest on the note to use words "such things as..."
GV: Software and documents could
bundle a live content service with the software or document
then the package must comply.
... Depends on the thing being evaluated - is it the player, or
is it the live content?
AS: If the thing meeting the conformance criteria does not itself contain live content, it automatically complies. If it contains live content, it must comply.
AH: We need to separate content from the user agent.
<greggvanderheiden> This applies directly etc. If the product (document or software) does not contain live content then it automatically meets this SC (whether it can be used to view live content or not). NOTE: Requirements for ability of players or viewers to support captions for media being played or viewed is not within WCAG's scope and would have to be required in some other fashion than WCAG SC.
Judy: Some parts of the User Agent accessibility were in the first 508 ANPRM - and is not covered under WCAG but is under UUAG.
Alex: 2nd 508 ANRPM dropped that requirement.
AS: Latest M376 draft does have this requirement for anything that supports video.
GV: Should add a note to make this clear.
RESOLUTION: Accept proposal as amended:
This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above). If the product (document or software) does not contain live content then it automatically meets this SC (whether it can be used to view live content or not).
NOTE: Requirements for ability of players or viewers to support captions for media being played or viewed is not within WCAG's scope and would have to be required in some other fashion than WCAG SC.
NOTE: The WCAG 2.0 definition of Captions notes that "In some countries, captions are called subtitles". They are also sometimes referred to as "subtitles for the hearing impaired." Per the definition in WCAG 2.0, to meet this SC, whether called captions or subtitles, they would have to provide "synchronized visual and/or text alternative for both speech and non-speech audio information needed to understand the media content" where non-speech information includes things such as "sound effects, music, laughter, speaker identification and location."
Alex: We may want to clarify this captioning is only for one-way, not two-way or multi-way conversations.
AS: This is not for phone conversations. It's for synchronized media.
Mike: A note explicitly stating that phone conversations does not apply might be useful.
AH: Be careful about including
guidance regarding uses of ICT. We can't do any editing on the
intent part of the SC.
... If it isn't clear in the intent that it applies only to
one-way, we shouldn't add it.
Alex: Intent of 1.2.4 provides only webcast examples that are one-way, but doesn't explicitly state it is only for one-way.
GV: Webinars would be covered, but what other people are saying is not covered. Thinks what we have is sufficient.
<Andi> ACTION: Alex to propose a Note to 1.2.4 to address his concern about two-way conversations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Propose a Note to 1.2.4 to address his concern about two-way conversations [on Alex Li - due 2012-06-12].
AS: Let's keep resolution as is, and keep this item open so Alex can take an action item to draft a note to address his concerns about 2-way conversation.
Alex: Will send note to the email list.
AS: Success Criteria 1.2.5
GV: Whether something should apply or not based on the platform, is something that should be handled at a higher level
Mike: Thinks that Peter's and Loic's issues have been addressed.
Proposal to add the note we developed for 1.2.3 referencing the WCAG definition and other terms that mean the same as audio description.
RESOLUTION: Accept 1.2.5 as amended without the 2nd paragraph.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY292012/results#xq12
AS: Success Criterion 3.3.4. Alex made a good point that
this doesn't make sense to apply to something like a file save
dialog.
... Sometimes there are systems that automatically save as you
work with the document, would this be non-compliant?
GV: This SC is meant more for
larger data sets, but doesn't explicitly say so.
... Didn't really mean for this to apply to deleting a single
word or set of words from a document.
... Should send a note to WCAG to make this SC clearer - there
is a problem with interpretation.
<Andi> ACTION: Gregg to take issue to WCAG regarding 3.3.4 intent - did not intend that every web app that edits something has to have a confirmation before proceeding [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-wcag2ict-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Take issue to WCAG regarding 3.3.4 intent - did not intend that every web app that edits something has to have a confirmation before proceeding [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-06-12].
GV: Suggest this is put on hold and make a recommendation to WCAG working group to fix the understanding document
Al: We could add a note to document this situation and that we are seeking clarification from WCAG.
<Andi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results
AS: We will just have Gregg handle the action item and keep the 3.3.4 SC open.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results#xq1
AS: Gregg's proposal gets into
the issue of accessibility supported. The WCAG 2.0 intent seems
to have a nice parallel to software platforms.
... If we have a good mapping for what 'user agent' means for
software, then the intent parallels well with the
requirements.
... If a platform does not provide a means to enlarge
information, then this would be an onerous requirement for
software to provide the zoom feature.
gregg: If you are on a platform that doesn't support the function for accessibility, then you do have to provide the function in the software. The question is 'is it accessible'?
Pierce: Intent section lays out the options for meeting the SC. Mobile world with hybridized development, there are gaps for platform support in this environment seem to be out of scope and unreasonable for the software to have to fill.
GV: WCAG is a measure, not a requirement. If you don't build it in and the application won't be accessible to people with disabilities.
AS: We'll continue this discussion through email.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/AL/AS/ WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/Accept Trace proposal as amended by Gregg in the meeting with the note on captions/subtitles that has been added to 1.2.2 as amended by David./Accept proposal as amended: This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above). If the product (document or software) does not contain live content then it automatically meets this SC (whether it can Succeeded: s/wan/want/ Succeeded: s/Andi// Succeeded: s/fix./fix the understanding document/ Succeeded: s/Survey starting with 1.2.4 </Survey starting with 1.2.4/ Found Scribe: MaryJo Inferring ScribeNick: MaryJo Default Present: David_MacDonald, Cooper, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Al_Hoffman, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Alex_Li, Judy, Mike_Pluke, Bruce_Bailey, Janina, Janina_Sajka, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Pierce_Crowell Present: David_MacDonald Cooper Andi_Snow_Weaver Al_Hoffman Mary_Jo_Mueller Alex_Li Judy Mike_Pluke Bruce_Bailey Janina Janina_Sajka Gregg_Vanderheiden Pierce_Crowell Regrets: Kiran_Kaja Peter_Korn Loïc_Martinez Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jun/0013.html Found Date: 05 Jun 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-wcag2ict-minutes.html People with action items: alex gregg[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]