General issues. Introduced Tom De Nies as a new working group member from IBBT.
A status update on the dm was given. Both prov-dm and prov-n are pretty much ready to go for review on monday. prov-dm-constraints will be worked on this weekend. Luc has set-up issue numbers that general comments (grammer, etc) on these documents should be tagged with. The issue numbers can be found in the agenda.
PROV-O will be ready to go by monday and be made available in mecurial repository. In addition to the current set of reviewers, MacTed and Sam agreed to try to review as well.
The primer will be ready to release on Monday. It was agreed that collections would be postponed until the next working draft of the primer.
Graham and Paul gave a status update on the PAQ. They think they have addressed most issues. They plan to release something for review by next week if all goes well. There was a discussion around what to use to substitute for entity-uri.
Paul reported on an email conversation with Jeni Tennison confirming that using a url with a hash was ok for xml. The group voted to use a common namespace http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# . Paul agreed to create an html index for this namespace and consult Ivan about having content negotiation to the owl file.
Luc raised the problem of naming relations for collections. There was limited comment.
Substitute for entity-URI in PAQ
The group returned to the conversation around what to use instead of entity-uri in the PAQ. In order to support, the retrieval of provenance for other provenance constructs (e.g. activity). Luc suggested to use the term "resource". Graham and Paul agreed that this is maybe a good option and to investigate more.
14:51:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-prov-irc ←
14:51:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:51:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:51:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:51:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:51:56 <trackbot> Date: 29 March 2012
14:51:59 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:51:59 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes ←
14:52:17 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.03.29
14:52:29 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:52:47 <pgroth> Scribe: Daniel Garijo
(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)
14:52:58 <pgroth> Regrets: Simon Miles
14:53:05 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:54:39 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:54:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:55:45 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
14:55:57 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P15 is me
Zakim, ??P15 is me ←
14:55:57 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
14:56:08 <dgarijo> scribe: dgarijo
14:56:27 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aaaa ←
14:56:58 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
14:57:29 <Tom_De_Nies> Zakim, +329331aaaa is me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, +329331aaaa is me ←
14:57:29 <Zakim> +Tom_De_Nies; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tom_De_Nies; got it ←
15:00:01 <Zakim> +tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo ←
15:00:27 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
15:01:31 <Tom_De_Nies> Zakim, Tom_De_Nies is with SamCoppens
Tom De Nies: Zakim, Tom_De_Nies is with SamCoppens ←
15:01:47 <Zakim> sorry, Tom_De_Nies, I do not recognize a party named 'SamCoppens'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Tom_De_Nies, I do not recognize a party named 'SamCoppens' ←
15:01:53 <Zakim> +??P50
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P50 ←
15:01:56 <Zakim> +??P43
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P43 ←
15:01:56 <jcheney> Zakim, ??P50 is me
James Cheney: Zakim, ??P50 is me ←
15:02:02 <jun> zakim, ??P43 is me
Jun Zhao: zakim, ??P43 is me ←
15:02:20 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
15:02:29 <Zakim> +jun; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it ←
15:02:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
15:02:56 <Paolo> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
Paolo Missier: zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me ←
15:03:08 <Zakim> +??P49
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P49 ←
15:03:10 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it ←
15:03:12 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:03:19 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the call?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], dgarijo, Tom_De_Nies, Luc, tlebo, Curt_Tilmes, jcheney, jun, Paolo, ??P49
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IPcaller], dgarijo, Tom_De_Nies, Luc, tlebo, Curt_Tilmes, jcheney, jun, Paolo, ??P49 ←
15:03:28 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:03:30 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
15:03:49 <dgarijo> yes
yes ←
<pgroth> Topic: Admin
Summary: General issues. Introduced Tom De Nies as a new working group member from IBBT.
<pgroth> Summary: General issues. Introduced Tom De Nies as a new working group member from IBBT.
15:04:07 <pgroth> Minutes last telco: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-03-22
Paul Groth: Minutes last telco: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-03-22 ←
15:04:15 <dgarijo> +1
+1 ←
15:04:21 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:04:23 <Tom_De_Nies> +1
Tom De Nies: +1 ←
15:04:24 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:04:28 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:04:33 <Paolo> +1
Paolo Missier: +1 ←
15:05:01 <Zakim> +??P53
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P53 ←
15:05:06 <pgroth> Approved Minutes of the March 22 2012 Telecon
Paul Groth: Approved Minutes of the March 22 2012 Telecon ←
15:05:24 <dgarijo> pgroth: open actions
Paul Groth: open actions ←
15:05:32 <dgarijo> ... there is still 1 open, on me
... there is still 1 open, on me ←
15:05:48 <dgarijo> ... I think the action is done (new version of the paq)
... I think the action is done (new version of the paq) ←
15:05:58 <dgarijo> ... next topic: reminder about the scribes
... next topic: reminder about the scribes ←
15:06:27 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:06:28 <dgarijo> ... welcome to Tom De Nies
... welcome to Tom De Nies ←
15:06:35 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:06:35 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:06:37 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:06:37 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:06:43 <dgarijo> tom: colleague of SamCoppens
Tom De Nies: colleague of SamCoppens ←
15:07:05 <dgarijo> ... work in enrichment of news and provenance assessment of news. Very happy to be here
... work in enrichment of news and provenance assessment of news. Very happy to be here ←
15:07:12 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:07:19 <dgarijo> paul: questions?
Paul Groth: questions? ←
15:07:23 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-DM
Summary: A status update on the dm was given. Both prov-dm and prov-n are pretty much ready to go for review on monday. prov-dm-constraints will be worked on this weekend. Luc has set-up issue numbers that general comments (grammer, etc) on these documents should be tagged with. The issue numbers can be found in the agenda.
<pgroth> Summary: A status update on the dm was given. Both prov-dm and prov-n are pretty much ready to go for review on monday. prov-dm-constraints will be worked on this weekend. Luc has set-up issue numbers that general comments (grammer, etc) on these documents should be tagged with. The issue numbers can be found in the agenda.
15:07:35 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
15:07:36 <dgarijo> pgroth: stauts update?
Paul Groth: stauts update? ←
15:07:39 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvDMWorkingDraft5
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvDMWorkingDraft5 ←
15:08:11 <GK> Zakim, ??P16 is me
Graham Klyne: Zakim, ??P16 is me ←
15:08:11 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
15:08:20 <MacTed> it would be VERY helpful if links to relevant docs can always be included in (added to) the Agenda
Ted Thibodeau: it would be VERY helpful if links to relevant docs can always be included in (added to) the Agenda ←
15:08:22 <dgarijo> luc:We've been working quite hard on the model. The documents are ready today (deadline is monday). In the wikipage there is a to do list and most of the items are covered.
Luc Moreau: We've been working quite hard on the model. The documents are ready today (deadline is monday). In the wikipage there is a to do list and most of the items are covered. ←
15:08:31 <Paolo> "align collection productions [PM]" done, actually
Paolo Missier: "align collection productions [PM]" done, actually ←
15:08:40 <dgarijo> ... invalidation will not be covered. It will be written and merged separately.
... invalidation will not be covered. It will be written and merged separately. ←
15:08:49 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:09:03 <dgarijo> ... for provn we've done checks for everything except collections
... for provn we've done checks for everything except collections ←
15:09:09 <Paolo> @Luc collections productions done this morning
Paolo Missier: @Luc collections productions done this morning ←
15:09:14 <sandro> sorry, previous meeting ran late.
Sandro Hawke: sorry, previous meeting ran late. ←
15:09:16 <dgarijo> ... constraints part has not been started.
... constraints part has not been started. ←
15:09:24 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
15:09:33 <dgarijo> ... will try to have it for monday, although we are not sure.
... will try to have it for monday, although we are not sure. ←
15:09:38 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:09:43 <dgarijo> pgroth: questions?
Paul Groth: questions? ←
15:09:45 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
15:09:54 <pgroth> ack tlebo
Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←
15:10:00 <Paolo> :collection (paolo) -- fix the constraints to allow for multiple contained() assertions" --> please see my mail this morning re: this
Paolo Missier: :collection (paolo) -- fix the constraints to allow for multiple contained() assertions" --> please see my mail this morning re: this ←
15:10:11 <dgarijo> tlebo: curious about the "finished today but still something to do for monday"
Timothy Lebo: curious about the "finished today but still something to do for monday" ←
15:10:16 <Paolo> (have to go, sorry in between trains)
Paolo Missier: (have to go, sorry in between trains) ←
15:10:25 <Zakim> -Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo ←
15:10:27 <dgarijo> luc: part 2 is the one we are going to start tomorrow.
Luc Moreau: part 2 is the one we are going to start tomorrow. ←
15:10:33 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:10:53 <Tom_De_Nies> Zakim, mute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me ←
15:10:53 <Zakim> Tom_De_Nies should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Tom_De_Nies should now be muted ←
15:10:56 <tlebo> (DM and N are finished today, CONSTRAINTS is for Monday.)
Timothy Lebo: (DM and N are finished today, CONSTRAINTS is for Monday.) ←
15:11:05 <dgarijo> luc: we have identified a number of questions for reviewers:
Luc Moreau: we have identified a number of questions for reviewers: ←
15:11:24 <dgarijo> ... can the doc be released as a fwd?
... can the doc be released as a fwd? ←
15:11:29 <dgarijo> ... blockers?
... blockers? ←
15:12:16 <dgarijo> ... reviewers with pending issues please confirm if they can be clsoed
... reviewers with pending issues please confirm if they can be closed ←
15:12:25 <dgarijo> s/clsoed/closed
15:12:37 <Zakim> -??P53
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P53 ←
15:12:51 <dgarijo> ... typos gramatical issues can be submitted in issues 331, 332 and 333
... typos gramatical issues can be submitted in issues 331, 332 and 333 ←
15:12:56 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:13:09 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:13:12 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
15:13:39 <dgarijo> paul: reviewers for provd and provn can start reviewing now?
Paul Groth: reviewers for provd and provn can start reviewing now? ←
15:14:09 <dgarijo> luc: they could. But there are a few tweaks we'll have to do once we reach the constraints on part to. Up to the reviewers.
Luc Moreau: they could. But there are a few tweaks we'll have to do once we reach the constraints on part to. Up to the reviewers. ←
15:14:15 <tlebo> Monday is fine :-)
Timothy Lebo: Monday is fine :-) ←
15:14:17 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
15:14:30 <Paolo> zakim, ??P22 is me
Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P22 is me ←
15:14:31 <Zakim> I already had ??P22 as ??P22, Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P22 as ??P22, Paolo ←
15:14:41 <dgarijo> pgroth: reviewers were: Tim, khalid, curt, jun and...
Paul Groth: reviewers were: Tim, khalid, curt, jun and... ←
15:15:14 <dgarijo> luc: if you are in agreement the we can send a notification on monday
Luc Moreau: if you are in agreement the we can send a notification on monday ←
15:15:33 <GK> I'm not seeing the document URIs at the page posted previuously
Graham Klyne: I'm not seeing the document URIs at the page posted previuously ←
15:15:33 <Curt> I can't really do it until next week anyway
Curt Tilmes: I can't really do it until next week anyway ←
15:15:34 <dgarijo> pgroth: ok, so wait till monday to begin the review.
Paul Groth: ok, so wait till monday to begin the review. ←
15:15:36 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:15:54 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.03.29#PROV-O
Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.03.29#PROV-O ←
15:15:55 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-O
Summary: PROV-O will be ready to go by monday and be made available in mecurial repository. In addition to the current set of reviewers, MacTed and Sam agreed to try to review as well.
<pgroth> Summary: PROV-O will be ready to go by monday and be made available in mecurial repository. In addition to the current set of reviewers, MacTed and Sam agreed to try to review as well.
15:16:17 <dgarijo> tlebo: different parts of the team working on different parts of the doc.
Timothy Lebo: different parts of the team working on different parts of the doc. ←
15:16:34 <dgarijo> ... some questions to the reviewers are on the link posted in the irc
... some questions to the reviewers are on the link posted in the irc ←
15:16:45 <dgarijo> ... will be ready for review by monday
... will be ready for review by monday ←
15:17:01 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
15:17:06 <Luc> where is the prov-o.html document?
Luc Moreau: where is the prov-o.html document? ←
15:17:10 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
15:17:15 <dgarijo> tlebo: the organization scheme has changed
Timothy Lebo: the organization scheme has changed ←
15:17:23 <dgarijo> @Luc: in aquarius :(
@Luc: in aquarius :( ←
15:17:34 <Luc> thanks
Luc Moreau: thanks ←
15:18:09 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:18:12 <dgarijo> tlebo: is it enough to understand everything, are the cross references useful?
Timothy Lebo: is it enough to understand everything, are the cross references useful? ←
15:18:36 <dgarijo> tlebo: please start to be familiar with the ontology.
Timothy Lebo: please start to be familiar with the ontology. ←
15:18:43 <dgarijo> ... should we add more examples.
... should we add more examples. ←
15:19:13 <dgarijo> pgroth: would you move this to the w3c site (what people are supposed to review).
Paul Groth: would you move this to the w3c site (what people are supposed to review). ←
15:19:19 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:19:29 <dgarijo> tlebo: yes, it will be a save as in mercurial
Timothy Lebo: yes, it will be a save as in mercurial ←
15:19:53 <dgarijo> pgroth: could anybody else volunteer to review?
Paul Groth: could anybody else volunteer to review? ←
15:20:11 <SamCoppens> I will review it also
Sam Coppens: I will review it also ←
15:20:18 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:20:18 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:20:20 <GK> (I may, but reluctant to over-commit right now)
Graham Klyne: (I may, but reluctant to over-commit right now) ←
15:20:34 <dgarijo> luc: macTed?
Luc Moreau: macTed? ←
15:20:43 <dgarijo> macTed: I'll try to have a look
Ted Thibodeau: I'll try to have a look ←
15:20:49 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:20:49 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:20:50 <Luc> @paul, could you remind us the timing for review
Luc Moreau: @paul, could you remind us the timing for review ←
15:21:05 <dgarijo> paul: so sam an macTed as new reviewers.
Paul Groth: so sam an macTed as new reviewers. ←
15:21:28 <pgroth> april 9th
Paul Groth: april 9th ←
15:21:35 <dgarijo> pgroth: monday is the release, April 9th is the due date for the reviews.
Paul Groth: monday is the release, April 9th is the due date for the reviews. ←
15:21:38 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
15:21:49 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:22:09 <GK> q+
Graham Klyne: q+ ←
15:22:17 <dgarijo> ... will try to reach consensus on 12 or 19th depending on the feedback. On monday we'll send an email to remember everyone
... will try to reach consensus on 12 or 19th depending on the feedback. On monday we'll send an email to remember everyone ←
15:22:17 <pgroth> ack GK
Paul Groth: ack GK ←
15:22:34 <Luc> they will be emailed on Monday
Luc Moreau: they will be emailed on Monday ←
15:22:38 <dgarijo> GK: Can I ask for confirmation of the URIs of the docs to be reviewed.
Graham Klyne: Can I ask for confirmation of the URIs of the docs to be reviewed. ←
15:22:54 <dgarijo> pgroth: will send them on monday, when they are ready to be released.
Paul Groth: will send them on monday, when they are ready to be released. ←
15:22:59 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:23:05 <pgroth> Topic: Prov-Primer
Summary: The primer will be ready to release on Monday. It was agreed that collections would be postponed until the next working draft of the primer.
<pgroth> Summary: The primer will be ready to release on Monday. It was agreed that collections would be postponed until the next working draft of the primer.
15:23:35 <dgarijo> pgroth: simon couldn't be here, but sent an update: Comments by Stian and Paolo are addrssed.
Paul Groth: simon couldn't be here, but sent an update: Comments by Stian and Paolo are addrssed. ←
15:23:45 <Zakim> -??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P24 ←
15:23:47 <dgarijo> ... he will have the rest by monday (examples)
... he will have the rest by monday (examples) ←
15:23:57 <dgarijo> ... he might be postponing collections.
... he might be postponing collections. ←
15:24:14 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
15:24:43 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:24:48 <dgarijo> ... questions for the reviewers: The primer doesn't talk that mucho about qualified involvement. What is the opinion of the reviewers about that? Can that be left for a later draft?
... questions for the reviewers: The primer doesn't talk that mucho about qualified involvement. What is the opinion of the reviewers about that? Can that be left for a later draft? ←
15:24:51 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:24:53 <dgarijo> ... blocking issues?
... blocking issues? ←
15:24:56 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:25:21 <dgarijo> luc: how do we talk about roles withouth qE?
Luc Moreau: how do we talk about roles withouth qI? ←
15:25:34 <dgarijo> s/qE/qI
15:25:46 <Luc> yes
Luc Moreau: yes ←
15:25:50 <stainPhone> time can be mentioned wirh location and custom attributes
Stian Soiland-Reyes: time can be mentioned wirh location and custom attributes ←
15:25:53 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:26:11 <stainPhone> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:26:12 <dgarijo> paul: that might be the question he's asking to the reviewers.
Paul Groth: that might be the question he's asking to the reviewers. ←
15:26:14 <dgarijo> +1
+1 ←
15:26:37 <dgarijo> ... so sounds reasonable to delay the discussion about collections in the primer.
... so sounds reasonable to delay the discussion about collections in the primer. ←
15:27:05 <dgarijo> luc: agrees.
Luc Moreau: agrees. ←
15:27:17 <dgarijo> pgroth: I will send an email to Simon.
Paul Groth: I will send an email to Simon. ←
15:27:19 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:27:26 <pgroth> Topic: PAQ
Summary: Graham and Paul gave a status update on the PAQ. They think they have addressed most issues. They plan to release something for review by next week if all goes well. There was a discussion around what to use to substitute for entity-uri.
<pgroth> Summary: Graham and Paul gave a status update on the PAQ. They think they have addressed most issues. They plan to release something for review by next week if all goes well. There was a discussion around what to use to substitute for entity-uri.
15:27:29 <stainPhone> and I am Stephan are doing the prov-o mapping of collections.
Stian Soiland-Reyes: and I am Stephan are doing the prov-o mapping of collections. ←
15:27:40 <pgroth> sure
Paul Groth: sure ←
15:28:02 <dgarijo> GK: I made a past to the doc simplifying sections.
Graham Klyne: I made a past to the doc simplifying sections. ←
15:28:20 <dgarijo> ... still to discuss some of the changes with paul.
... still to discuss some of the changes with paul. ←
15:28:26 <pgroth> updated version is here: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/2b3bd4e1beb1/paq/working/prov-aq.html
Paul Groth: updated version is here: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/2b3bd4e1beb1/paq/working/prov-aq.html ←
15:28:44 <dgarijo> ... there are still issues to resolve in the doc.
... there are still issues to resolve in the doc. ←
15:29:31 <dgarijo> ... unify the namespace. Added an appendix. Issues like 70, 211 have been addressed. 233, 76 too.
... unify the namespace. Added an appendix. Issues like 70, 211 have been addressed. 233, 76 too. ←
15:30:16 <dgarijo> ... should we be changing the prov:entity uri with sime other thing?
... should we be changing the prov:entity uri with sime other thing? ←
15:30:32 <dgarijo> paul: we need to follow up some of these issues.
Paul Groth: we need to follow up some of these issues. ←
15:30:39 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
15:30:50 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: GK (50%)
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: GK (50%) ←
15:30:59 <dgarijo> ... how to use sparql and linked data.
... how to use sparql and linked data. ←
15:31:05 <MacTed> mute would be appreciated on clacky keyboard
Ted Thibodeau: mute would be appreciated on clacky keyboard ←
15:31:05 <dgarijo> ... with prov.
... with prov. ←
15:31:36 <dgarijo> ... people wanted to retrieve the prov of entities and activities
... people wanted to retrieve the prov of entities and activities ←
15:31:37 <dgarijo> Zakim, mute GK
Zakim, mute GK ←
15:31:37 <Zakim> GK should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: GK should now be muted ←
15:31:51 <dgarijo> @graham, sorry, I couldn't hear :(
@graham, sorry, I couldn't hear :( ←
15:31:56 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
15:32:03 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:32:03 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:32:09 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:32:11 <Paolo> akim, ??P0 is me
Paolo Missier: akim, ??P0 is me ←
15:32:11 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
15:32:18 <dgarijo> paul: what do the gorup thinks about that?
Paul Groth: what do the gorup thinks about that? ←
15:32:21 <Zakim> -GK
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK ←
15:32:21 <stainPhone> provElement or similar?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: provElement or similar? ←
15:32:24 <Paolo> zakim, ??P0 is me
Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
15:32:24 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it ←
15:32:41 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
15:32:43 <dgarijo> MacTed: distinction between entity and activity is artificial.
Ted Thibodeau: distinction between entity and activity is artificial. ←
15:32:47 <GK> zakim, ??p2 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p2 is me ←
15:32:47 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
15:33:01 <dgarijo> ... we're building ourselves problems.
... we're building ourselves problems. ←
15:33:20 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:33:29 <pgroth> ack MacTed
Paul Groth: ack MacTed ←
15:33:32 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:34:12 <dgarijo> luc: paul mentioned activities and entities. There are a lot of terms with ids (nearly all of them). I don't think it is artificial
Luc Moreau: paul mentioned activities and entities. There are a lot of terms with ids (nearly all of them). I don't think it is artificial ←
15:34:15 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:35:19 <dgarijo> MacTed: however it is a redefined type. Entitiy has a common usage in the world, and we are using it in a total different way. The struggle to keep that in a different way is the thing that I don't like
Ted Thibodeau: however it is a redefined type. Entitiy has a common usage in the world, and we are using it in a total different way. The struggle to keep that in a different way is the thing that I don't like ←
15:35:20 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:35:27 <Luc> but this would be teh case for any word we use, wouldn't it?
Luc Moreau: but this would be teh case for any word we use, wouldn't it? ←
15:35:28 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:35:47 <GK> q+ to ask if any alternative terms have been suggested?
Graham Klyne: q+ to ask if any alternative terms have been suggested? ←
15:36:33 <Curt> the concept represented by our term entity is inherently complex
Curt Tilmes: the concept represented by our term entity is inherently complex ←
15:36:33 <dgarijo> pgroth: for the paq we need a term that represents everything with an identity in the model. Maybe provenance element, or ideantifiable.
Paul Groth: for the paq we need a term that represents everything with an identity in the model. Maybe provenance element, or ideantifiable. ←
15:36:42 <stainPhone> "about" ? ;)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: "about" ? ;) ←
15:36:43 <GK> Ah...
Graham Klyne: Ah... ←
15:37:16 <dgarijo> MacTed: it continues to be confusing for us all.
Ted Thibodeau: it continues to be confusing for us all. ←
15:37:22 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:37:25 <pgroth> ack GK
Paul Groth: ack GK ←
15:37:25 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask if any alternative terms have been suggested?
Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to ask if any alternative terms have been suggested? ←
15:37:43 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:37:48 <dgarijo> GK: has an alternative name been suggested?
Graham Klyne: has an alternative name been suggested? ←
15:38:04 <dgarijo> pgroth: maybe we should go back to the paq itself
Paul Groth: maybe we should go back to the paq itself ←
15:38:28 <dgarijo> ... we will release it next week for people to look at it
... we will release it next week for people to look at it ←
15:38:28 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:38:32 <Luc> @GK: I agree that one can always propose better names, but for now, we don't have any other suggestion
Luc Moreau: @GK: I agree that one can always propose better names, but for now, we don't have any other suggestion ←
15:38:41 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:38:46 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:38:47 <GK> @Luc hence my Q :)
Graham Klyne: @Luc hence my Q :) ←
15:39:07 <dgarijo> luc: what is your timetable. Synchronized release?
Luc Moreau: what is your timetable. Synchronized release? ←
15:39:14 <dgarijo> pgroth: I don't think so.
Paul Groth: I don't think so. ←
15:39:52 <Luc> we could release it shortly afterwads
Luc Moreau: we could release it shortly afterwads ←
15:39:53 <dgarijo> ... it is almost there, but almost everyone is commmitted to reviewing something. And also, it is somehow separate.
... it is almost there, but almost everyone is commmitted to reviewing something. And also, it is somehow separate. ←
15:40:04 <GK> Not so much "separate" as "orthogonal" ?
Graham Klyne: Not so much "separate" as "orthogonal" ? ←
15:40:22 <dgarijo> ... next week we'll have something when people have time to review
... next week we'll have something when people have time to review ←
15:40:55 <dgarijo> GK: I may be travelling next week. Limited internet connection access.
Graham Klyne: I may be travelling next week. Limited internet connection access. ←
15:41:23 <pgroth> Topic: Namespace Unification
Summary: Paul reported on an email conversation with Jeni Tennison confirming that using a url with a hash was ok for xml. The group voted to use a common namespace http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# . Paul agreed to create an html index for this namespace and consult Ivan about having content negotiation to the owl file.
<pgroth> Summary: Paul reported on an email conversation with Jeni Tennison confirming that using a url with a hash was ok for xml. The group voted to use a common namespace http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# . Paul agreed to create an html index for this namespace and consult Ivan about having content negotiation to the owl file.
15:41:40 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#
Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# ←
15:41:43 <dgarijo> pgroth: last week we talked about the ns unification. The use of the hash
Paul Groth: last week we talked about the ns unification. The use of the hash ←
15:42:02 <dgarijo> ... is this use violated in rdf/xml serializations?
... is this use violated in rdf/xml serializations? ←
15:42:20 <dgarijo> ... sandro contacted the xml working group
... sandro contacted the xml working group ←
15:42:24 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:42:27 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:42:50 <dgarijo> .... they encouraged us to have a common namespace
.... they encouraged us to have a common namespace ←
15:42:59 <dgarijo> ... the one proposed is fine with xml
... the one proposed is fine with xml ←
15:43:13 <dgarijo> ... it doesn't really matter what you have.
... it doesn't really matter what you have. ←
15:43:31 <GK> I'm happy with that resolution.
Graham Klyne: I'm happy with that resolution. ←
15:43:44 <pgroth> Propose that we use http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# as the common namespace for all prov specs
Paul Groth: Propose that we use http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# as the common namespace for all prov specs ←
15:43:52 <GK> +1
Graham Klyne: +1 ←
15:43:52 <dgarijo> +1
+1 ←
15:43:54 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:43:55 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:43:58 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
15:44:00 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:44:04 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:44:06 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:44:07 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:44:09 <StephenCresswell> +1
Stephen Cresswell: +1 ←
15:44:12 <jun> +1
15:44:12 <MacTed> +0
Ted Thibodeau: +0 ←
15:44:26 <Tom_De_Nies> +1
Tom De Nies: +1 ←
15:44:35 <pgroth> Accepted: use http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# as the common namespace for all prov specs
RESOLVED: use http://www.w3.org/ns/prov# as the common namespace for all prov specs ←
15:44:42 <pgroth> Close ISSUE-224 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/224
Paul Groth: Close ISSUE-224 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/224 ←
15:44:45 <dgarijo> pgroth: we can close issue 224
Paul Groth: we can close ISSUE-224 ←
15:45:27 <dgarijo> ... provide an html index to link all the docs toghether.
... provide an html index to link all the docs toghether. ←
15:45:45 <dgarijo> ... are there volunteers for this?
... are there volunteers for this? ←
15:45:47 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:45:59 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:46:26 <dgarijo> ... I'll go ahead and start doing it after monday
... I'll go ahead and start doing it after monday ←
15:46:52 <dgarijo> ... I'll need some help
... I'll need some help ←
15:46:55 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:47:10 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:47:17 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:47:32 <dgarijo> luc: regarding collections: 3 relations are being proposed.
Luc Moreau: regarding collections: 3 relations are being proposed. ←
15:47:46 <pgroth> Topic: Collections
Summary: Luc raised the problem of naming relations for collections. There was limited comment.
<pgroth> Summary: Luc raised the problem of naming relations for collections. There was limited comment.
15:48:03 <dgarijo> ... do we want to have the same form (in the past) as the o ther properties?
... do we want to have the same form (in the past) as the o ther properties? ←
15:48:17 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:48:21 <dgarijo> it would be nice to have some input
it would be nice to have some input ←
15:48:32 <GK> What's the anticip[ated context of use?
Graham Klyne: What's the anticip[ated context of use? ←
15:49:06 <Paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
15:49:14 <pgroth> ack Paolo
Paul Groth: ack Paolo ←
15:49:46 <dgarijo> paolo: any time you want to track the prov of the collection.
Paolo Missier: any time you want to track the prov of the collection. ←
15:49:51 <jun> do we have a link to the proposal?
Jun Zhao: do we have a link to the proposal? ←
15:50:11 <GK> SO, if it's for tracking provenance of collections as well as members, I think using the same form is appropriate.
Graham Klyne: SO, if it's for tracking provenance of collections as well as members, I think using the same form is appropriate. ←
15:50:50 <dgarijo> ... for workflows is more important (to know if an element of the collection belonged to an execution, etc)
... for workflows is more important (to know if an element of the collection belonged to an execution, etc) ←
15:50:55 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
<pgroth> Topic: Substitute for entity-URI in PAQ
Summary: The group returned to the conversation around what to use instead of entity-uri in the PAQ. In order to support, the retrieval of provenance for other provenance constructs (e.g. activity). Luc suggested to use the term "resource". Graham and Paul agreed that this is maybe a good option and to investigate more.
<pgroth> Summary: The group returned to the conversation around what to use instead of entity-uri in the PAQ. In order to support, the retrieval of provenance for other provenance constructs (e.g. activity). Luc suggested to use the term "resource". Graham and Paul agreed that this is maybe a good option and to investigate more.
15:51:47 <dgarijo> paul: I want to come back about the name in the PAQ for entity URI
Paul Groth: I want to come back about the name in the PAQ for entity URI ←
15:52:29 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:52:30 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:52:31 <dgarijo> ... any suggestions would be helpful
... any suggestions would be helpful ←
15:52:42 <dgarijo> luc: why not resource?
Luc Moreau: why not resource? ←
15:53:00 <dgarijo> - Provenance element? provenance resource?
- Provenance element? provenance resource? ←
15:53:30 <dgarijo> gk: It was because we wanted to have a way of talking about the views.
Graham Klyne: It was because we wanted to have a way of talking about the views. ←
15:54:02 <dgarijo> paul: the scruffyness of the dm allows us to refer to resource.
Paul Groth: the scruffyness of the dm allows us to refer to resource. ←
15:54:30 <dgarijo> gk: I'm trying to see what are the implications about this. I'm not sure
Graham Klyne: I'm trying to see what are the implications about this. I'm not sure ←
15:54:48 <dgarijo> ... I would have to check the rest of the document. Maybe works.
... I would have to check the rest of the document. Maybe works. ←
15:54:58 <dgarijo> luc: It is a reasonable suggestions
Luc Moreau: It is a reasonable suggestions ←
15:55:50 <dgarijo> pgroth: the distinction between entity/process is more a dm problem.
Paul Groth: the distinction between entity/process is more a dm problem. ←
15:56:12 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
15:56:17 <dgarijo> ... you could raise an issue, MacTed, and propose other names.
... you could raise an issue, MacTed, and propose other names. ←
15:56:24 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
15:56:31 <dgarijo> Luc: do you have suggestions for other names?
Luc Moreau: do you have suggestions for other names? ←
15:56:59 <Curt> we went through other terms people didn't like.... They don't like entity either, but it was left standing after other terms were eliminated.
Curt Tilmes: we went through other terms people didn't like.... They don't like entity either, but it was left standing after other terms were eliminated. ←
15:57:01 <dgarijo> ... that was the best one we came up with. We used to have Bob (and we don't want to go back there).
... that was the best one we came up with. We used to have Bob (and we don't want to go back there). ←
15:57:09 <pgroth> +1 curt
Paul Groth: +1 curt ←
15:57:21 <dgarijo> ... the only way to move forward is through new proposals
... the only way to move forward is through new proposals ←
15:57:25 <GK> q+ to say I think I can see a way to revising PAQ 1.2 to remove "entity" and just talk about "resource" without losing the essence of the material
Graham Klyne: q+ to say I think I can see a way to revising PAQ 1.2 to remove "entity" and just talk about "resource" without losing the essence of the material ←
15:57:44 <dgarijo> MacTed: I don't think we are the first people to look at these questions.
Ted Thibodeau: I don't think we are the first people to look at these questions. ←
15:58:09 <dgarijo> pgroth: the conclusion is: If you have a better name for consideration, feel free to propose it.
Paul Groth: the conclusion is: If you have a better name for consideration, feel free to propose it. ←
15:58:18 <pgroth> ack GK
Paul Groth: ack GK ←
15:58:18 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I think I can see a way to revising PAQ 1.2 to remove "entity" and just talk about "resource" without losing the essence of the material
Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say I think I can see a way to revising PAQ 1.2 to remove "entity" and just talk about "resource" without losing the essence of the material ←
15:58:46 <dgarijo> GK: we can eliminate the term entity without loosing much in the doc.
Graham Klyne: we can eliminate the term entity without loosing much in the doc. ←
15:59:29 <pgroth> q?
Paul Groth: q? ←
15:59:36 <dgarijo> pgroth: good bye everyone
Paul Groth: good bye everyone ←
15:59:39 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
15:59:44 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
15:59:44 <dgarijo> ... and good luck for monday
... and good luck for monday ←
15:59:47 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
15:59:49 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
15:59:52 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
15:59:55 <Zakim> -jun
Zakim IRC Bot: -jun ←
15:59:57 <Zakim> -GK
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK ←
16:00:00 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
16:00:03 <Zakim> -Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo ←
16:00:04 <pgroth> daniel I'll do the minutes
Paul Groth: daniel I'll do the minutes ←
16:00:05 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:00:07 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
16:00:09 <Zakim> -??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P10 ←
16:00:09 <dgarijo> ok, thanks!
ok, thanks! ←
16:00:12 <dgarijo> bye!
bye! ←
16:00:17 <Zakim> -Tom_De_Nies
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tom_De_Nies ←
16:00:27 <Tom_De_Nies> bye!
Tom De Nies: bye! ←
16:00:47 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:00:53 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:00:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-prov-minutes.html pgroth
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-prov-minutes.html pgroth ←
16:00:58 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
Paul Groth: trackbot, end telcon ←
16:00:58 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:01:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:01:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:01:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:01:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
16:01:08 <GK> @Paul: would you like me take to a pass at this while it's fresh in my mind (s/entity/resource/)
Graham Klyne: @Paul: would you like me take to a pass at this while it's fresh in my mind (s/entity/resource/) ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#2) generated 2012-03-30 13:00:49 UTC by 'pgroth', comments: 'edited prov-dm summary'