<trackbot> Date: 10 November 2011

<JAllan> scribe: jallan

http://test.tsbvi.edu/generated.htm

TPAC Recap

kf: appreciate those in person, and Simon for calling in.
... lots of work. good sense of where we are, where going.
... publishing moratorium winter holidays

gl: not changes much. changed wording from style sheet to style profiles

kf: is something missing?

gl: current ones are same as wayne's. as they are they are pretty good

ja: thought we discussed these at the f2f

js: reason we are not using 'stylesheets'

kf: technology specific. trying to make agnostic.

<Greg> I lean towards the phrase "style sheets and equivalent".

gl: like using terms reader understands

ja: +1 to gl

kp: neutral on wording

kf: editorially, do we need to use 'or equivalent'

kp: style profile is awkward, but must use style sheets and equivalent" every time for folks will get confused
... if only stylesheets people will narrowly define in their head

js: if not using 'stylesheets' suggest 'presentation profiles' to abstract further

kp: leaning more toward 'style profiles', wording is better in context. helps people think wider

kf: are there other styles

kp: nice to define a vocabulary. will need define 'style profile'

<Greg> It looks like Wayne's changes amount to (a) adding 1.7.0, (b) replacing term "style sheet" with "style profile", and (c) in 1.7.1 changing "turn off" to "turn on or off" and "every author style sheet defined" to "every author profile".

kf: put in document as is, in status changes for new Working Draft - ask for feedback. There may be other ways to do this let us know. Include definition of 'style profile'

kp: Dragon switched to using profile, and it made more sense to users

kf: have intents for all of these except the new 1.7.0, Jeanne can you put in document

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add Wayne Dick's proposal for 1.7 to the document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-657 - Add Wayne Dick's proposal for 1.7 to the document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-11-17].

<scribe> ACTION: jallan to add column about IER presence on the uaag-total table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-658 - Add column about IER presence on the uaag-total table [on Jim Allan - due 2011-11-17].

gl: should we add glossary terms proposed by wayne to glossary.
... seems convoluted to add 4 additional paragraphs to support a 1 line def. of 'style profile'
... should be able to come up with a shorter definition that does not require the other support info.

<Greg> I think we can define "style sheet" or "style profile" such that we don't need to introduce and define two new terms ("style rule" and "style grouping"), which I think just confuse the reader and the document.

<kford> ACTION: kford to send mail to Wayne asking him to revise and simplify glossary definitions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-659 - Send mail to Wayne asking him to revise and simplify glossary definitions. [on Kelly Ford - due 2011-11-17].

Review outstanding work from TPAC review, SC needing attention and such with goal to assign owners for SC needing work.

test.tsbvi.edu/uaag-total.htm

<mhakkinen> * irc only

kf: how to address the 'no' items
... everybody look through action items and close those that should be closed.
... team will assign 'no' items to appropriate folks

ja: there are 22 items with no associated action items

Review any proposals sent to list

close action-591

<trackbot> ACTION-591 Create table with comments and group responses. closed

<kford> Scribe: kford

JA: Talking about action 650 and looking at CSS generated contnet not appearing in the DOM.
... I couldn't find this in the DOM.
... Correction I couldn't find this in the HTML5 spec.
... I don't know if we need this as a SC to ensure it doens't go away.

'GLP: Do we need a generic SC that generated content is one example.

GL: Do we want something that says everything presented to the user must be available programatically.
... Do we then want something that talks about ensuring this is done in an easy fashion e.g. DOM and accessibility API?

<JAllan> ACTION: jallan review css spec for generated text in the dom, and propose adding information to the a11y api [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-660 - Review css spec for generated text in the dom, and propose adding information to the a11y api [on Jim Allan - due 2011-11-17].

<JAllan> close action action-650

<JAllan> close action-650

<JAllan> close action-650

<trackbot> ACTION-650 Review generated css content in html5 closed

<JAllan> Action-630

<JAllan> 1.8x Maintain Point of Regard::

JA: My other action was 630 around point of regard.

<JAllan> When user changes viewport size or scales the content, maintain the current point of regard.

<JAllan> Intent: Keep as much of the current content in the viewport when the viewport changes size or the user scales content/ It can be disorienting and confusing when a user changes the viewports size and the current content shifts out of the viewport and different content on the same page is displayed. Point the top-left corner (or top-right corner for RTL languages) to the viewport regardless of...

<JAllan> ...viewport size or scale. If an element has focus in the viewport keep the focused element in the viewport after resizing or scaling.

GL: I think this is not using the point of regard correctly.

JA: The intent reflects what I think needs to happen.

<Greg> I think this is misusing the term "point of regard". Per the definition, "point of regard" is the thing the user is presumed to be looking at, so it's not really up to the user agent to "maintain it", but rather to keep it within the visible portion of the viewport.

JA: Some people might get confused and say it is the center that is the point of regard.
... I think the most consistent is the top left corner.

<scribe> ACTION: kford to send proposed assignments for SC needing attention to list based on Jim's spreadsheet. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-661 - Send proposed assignments for SC needing attention to list based on Jim's spreadsheet. [on Kelly Ford - due 2011-11-17].

GL and JA talking further about exactly what is meant here.

<JAllan> kelly and jim discussing orientation examples

<JAllan> kf: 2 examples, 1-keeping top left corner pinned, 2 - keep the focused element in the same relative position in the revised viewport

<JAllan> keep the focused element in the same relative position in the revised content in the viewport

<Greg> Perhaps "The point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport when the viewport is resized or the view within the viewport is scaled." (Too many uses of "viewport", though.)

<JAllan> gl: why in the intent and not the SC

<JAllan> ja: didn't want make the SC too prescriptive

<JAllan> kp: would like to strongly suggest UA does one of the two solutions. they are good cognitively.

<JAllan> ... would be better for all UA to do the same way.

<JAllan> js: is something is focused it should have priority

KP: Liking the staying geographically oriented solution.

<Greg> I consider the point of regard to be the text cursor location, or the active end of the selection, or the focus element, or highlighted search results, or the leading edge of the viewport (bottom edge when scrolling down, or top edge when scrolling up), *whichever changed most recently*.

<JAllan> The point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport when the viewport is resized or is scaled.

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport size or scales the content the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport size or scales content the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport.

GL: 1. I can resize. 2. I can change the zoom ratio. 3. What happens when I'm showing text and change the font of some of the text.

<JAllan> ja: resize = changing window size, scale=change size of content

GL: Do I need to resize to continue to show the cursor?

<Greg> If "scale" means change the zoom ratio, then "resizing the content" might mean changing font size, etc.

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport or content size the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport

<Greg> "When the user changes the viewport's size or scaling, or the size of its content,..."?

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport, content, or font size the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport

Group continues to talk about definitions of what actions should be covered here.

<KimPatch> When user changes viewport, content, or rendering size the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport

<KimPatch> When the user changes viewport, content, or rendering size the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport

GL: Does this need to be optional?

group says yes, user should be able to override.

<KimPatch> When the user changes viewport, content, or rendering size the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport, by default

<KimPatch> By default, when the user changes viewport, content, or rendering size the point of regard remains at the same relative location within the visible portion of the viewport.

GL: Did we decide this doesn't cover changes that the user did n't cause?

<JAllan> ACTION: jallan to resubmit revised 1.8.x from action-630 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-662 - Resubmit revised 1.8.x from action-630 [on Jim Allan - due 2011-11-17].

<JAllan> no meeting in 2 weeks - US thanksgiving

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Pint/Point/
Succeeded: s/contnet/content/
Found Scribe: jallan
Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan
Found Scribe: kford
Inferring ScribeNick: kford
Scribes: jallan, kford
ScribeNicks: JAllan, kford

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Greg Greg_Lowney Intent JA JAllan Jeanne Jim_Allan KP KimPatch Kim_Patch Microsoft P0 gl inserted joined js kf kford mhakkinen sharper trackbot ua
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Regrets: JanR MarkH
Found Date: 10 Nov 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: jallan jeanne kford