HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 18 Nov 2010

<pimpbot> changes: postmsg; : change shortname to webmessaging <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Nov/0038.html>

<MikeSmith> action-198?

<trackbot> ACTION-198 -- Steve Faulkner to update change proposal for bug 10594 and 10603 -- due 2010-11-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/198

<pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10594 faulkner.steve, P1, RESOLVED WONTFIX, 13conforming use of various aria attributes not specified

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-198: Update change proposal for bug 10594 and 10603 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<MikeSmith> close action-198

<trackbot> ACTION-198 Update change proposal for bug 10594 and 10603 closed

<pimpbot> planet: Rainbow 0.2 is here! <11http://mozillalabs.com/rainbow/2010/11/18/rainbow-0-2-is-here/>

<pimpbot> planet: Dead Code Elimination for Beginners <11http://blog.mozilla.com/rob-sayre/2010/11/17/dead-code-elimination-for-beginners/> 4** Firefox/Gecko Delivery Meeting Minutes: 2010-11-17 <11http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/434>

<Zeros> does anyone know the reason that custom namespaces were not added to HTML5?

<Zeros> browsers seem to all handle xyz:custom for attributes and elements pretty much the same. Only IE requires xmlns.

<Hixie> Zeros: define "custom namespaces"?

<Zeros> Hixie, prefix syntax on elements

<Zeros> seems related to issue 41

<Hixie> what problem would it solve?

<Hixie> i don't understand

<Zeros> http://www.angularjs.org/

<pimpbot> Title: AngularJS (at www.angularjs.org)

<Zeros> That framework implements a large number of custom widgets and attributes and uses post processing to fill it the DOM nodes

<Zeros> Less about what problem it solves, but the framework works fine in every browser using that notation.

<Hixie> that's not html

<Hixie> it's just a proprietary language

<Zeros> So not specifying it seems to deny what browsers already support

<Hixie> so what html says doesn't seem very relevant

<Zeros> the rules for parsing that into the DOM structure shouldn't be specified though?

<Zeros> if browsers already handle it consistently

<Hixie> they are

<Zeros> ah, where?

<Hixie> the html parser defines how you parse any input

<Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#parsing

<pimpbot> Title: Web Applications 1.0 (at www.whatwg.org)

<Zeros> I couldn't find anything about parsing a tag prefix

<Zeros> The lead developers on that project were asking me about conformance, and I was looking for relevant parts of the spec

<Hixie> it's not conforming -- it's not html at all

<Hixie> there's no "tag prefix" in <ng:foo>, the element is just called "ng:foo"

<Zeros> What do the parsing rules say about : in the name?

<Hixie> nothing, it's treated the same as "a"

<Zeros> So then as far as the parser is concerned it's just an unknown element and is inserted into the DOM?

<Hixie> yes

<Zeros> perfect, thanks

<Zeros> it might be worth putting something to that effect into the spec near the section on namespaces

<Zeros> prefix:something is not a namespace, just an known element with name "prefix:something"

<Zeros> unknown*

<Hixie> well they're not allowed in either case, so it's not clear what good it would do to mention them

<Hixie> but i'll file a bug to think about it

<Hixie> ok gotta go sleep now

<Hixie> nn

<Zeros> They were really confused by the line 'The HTML syntax does not support namespace declarations, even in foreign elements.'

<Zeros> and thanks again, night

<Hixie> what's confusing about it?

<Zeros> They noticed that <foo:bar> is treated the same in most/all browsers in terms of DOM construction and parsing

<Zeros> but then that line seems like a confirming HTML5 browser should not permit it at all

<Zeros> exactly

<Hixie> the browser doesn't permit or deny anything

<Zeros> right, but the : confuses XML namespaces

<Zeros> so immediately they, and I, looked all over the spec at all sections that mention the word namespace

<Zeros> "x" doesn't have special meaning in another SGML like language I know of

<Hixie> well i filed http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11338

<pimpbot> 1111338: contributor, P3, NEW, 13Zeros says we should add a note here saying something like "In the HTML serialization, namespace prefixes and namespace declarations are non-conforming and are do not have the same effect as in XML. In particular, the colon has no special meaning in HTML

<Hixie> if you have any idea of a better suggestion for a note than what is in that bug, please write it in teh bug

<Hixie> i really must go now :-)

<Zeros> perfect, you rock :)

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 11338] Elliott Sprehn suggests a note here saying something like "In the HTML serialization, namespace prefixes and namespace declarations are non-conforming and are do not have the same effect as in XML. In particular, the colon has no special meaning in HTML" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Nov/0640.html> 4** [Bug 11338] New: Zeros says we should add a note here saying something like

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11156] <input type=hidden> should not set frameset-ok to 'not ok' <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Nov/0641.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11339] New: hola queria decir que chupas poyas a raudales <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Nov/0642.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11340] New: me gustan los manogo <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Nov/0644.html> 4** [Bug 10837] playbackrate: undefined behavior when the user agent can't play back at the requested rate <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Nov/0643.html>

<MikeSmith> issue-134?

<trackbot> ISSUE-134 -- Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-134: Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<pimpbot> planet: nav beyond lists in HTML5? <11http://doctype.com/nav-beyond-lists-html5>

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-11-18: status of actions, calls, issues, meeting schedule, timeline to LC status from Paul Cotton on 2010-11-17 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<Evan> Hi Sam

<paulc> Good morning Sam.

<paulc> ok

<rubys> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 18 November 2010

<scribe> ScribeNick: mjs

<paulc> Waiting 30 secs to start

action items due

1 - ACTION 196

ACTION-196?

<trackbot> ACTION-196 -- Julian Reschke to ask the IANA designated experts if this would be an acceptable model -- due 2010-11-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/196

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-196: Ask the IANA designated experts if this would be an acceptable model - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> Julian: What is the status here?

<paulc> Action-196 due in two weeks

<trackbot> ACTION-196 Ask the IANA designated experts if this would be an acceptable model due date now in two weeks

2 - ACTION-198

has been transferred to accessibility TF, now closed

paulc: ACTION-29, on PLH

<paulc> plh: are you on the phone?

<paulc> ACTION-29 is due Jan 15

<paulc> Action-29 due jan 15

<trackbot> ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring due date now jan 15

paulc: likely no progress to report

new issues this week

paulc: the first is ISSUE-142, no alternative text description for video keyframe

ISSUE-142?

<trackbot> ISSUE-142 -- No alternative text description for video key frame (poster) -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/142

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-142: No alternative text description for video key frame (poster) - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: ISSUE-143, remove the newly added <s> element

ISSUE-143?

<trackbot> ISSUE-143 -- Remove the newly added "s" element -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/143

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-143: Remove the newly added "s" element - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: ISSUE-144, which was very recently escalated, <u> should be conforming in the HTML5 spec

ISSUE-144?

<trackbot> ISSUE-144 -- <u> should be conforming -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/144

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-144: should be conforming - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: in addition there are three tracker requests pending

<paulc> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=TrackerRequest

<pimpbot> Title: Bug List (at www.w3.org)

items closed last week

paulc: received change proposal for ISSUE-125: charset-vs-quotes

ISSUE-125?

<trackbot> ISSUE-125 -- Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to single quotes not needed for legacy content -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/125

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-125: Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to single quotes not needed for legacy content - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: also received Change Proposal for ISSUE-126: charset-vs-backslashes

ISSUE-126?

<trackbot> ISSUE-126 -- Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to backslashes not needed for legacy content -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/126

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-126: Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to backslashes not needed for legacy content - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

items closing this week

paulc: ISSUE-128, figure-in-p, closes Nov 17

<paulc> issue-128?

<trackbot> ISSUE-128 -- Authors should be able to use <figure> where <img> can be used -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/128

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-128: Authors should be able to use where can be used - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: ISSUE-27, rel-ownership - Call for Advocates, due Nov 19

ISSUE-27?

<trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27: @rel value ownership, registry consideration - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

items closing next 2 weeks

paulc: ISSUE-118: broken-link-types, due Nov 21

cynthia: is this due Friday or Monday?

paulc: first thing Monday is ok

ISSUE-118?

<trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first" -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/118

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-118: Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first" - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: ISSUE-127 link-type-flags - due Nov 21

ISSUE-127?

<trackbot> ISSUE-127 -- Simplify characterization of link types -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/127

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-127: Simplify characterization of link types - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11340] me gustan los manogo <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Nov/0646.html> 4** [Bug 11339] hola queria decir que chupas poyas a raudales <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Nov/0645.html>

paulc: ISSUE-129 aria-mapping - due Nov 21

ISSUE-129?

<trackbot> ISSUE-129 -- replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/129

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-129: replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: ISSUE-122 shalott-example - also due Nov 21

ISSUE-122?

<trackbot> ISSUE-122 -- alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/122

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-122: alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

new calls this week

ISSUE-119 rel-repetition - call for counter-proposals

new surveys this week

paulc: none

meeting schedule

paulc: no call on Thursday, Nov 25 - US Thanksgiving holiday
... next meeting will be Thursday Dec 2

timeline to Last Call

<paulc> Timeline: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html

<pimpbot> Title: Timeline to Last Call from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-09-08 (public-html@w3.org from September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: timeline was sent in September
... second significant deadline is Dec 8, when all bugs are supposed to be addressed by the editor

<paulc> Bug status: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html

<pimpbot> Title: Timeline to Last Call from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-09-08 (public-html@w3.org from September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: as of yesterday morning, there were only about 20 bugs across all the LC components

<paulc> Bug status: http://tinyurl.com/2bu9vvr

<pimpbot> Title: Bug List (at tinyurl.com)

paulc: Hixie has 3 or 4
... Mike Smith has 1
... I have one related to longdesc
... eliott has a couple
... Steve F has quite a few
... chairs are continuing to monitor the status in the hopes we will get to 0 bugs by Dec 8

other business

paulc: any other business?

(none heard)

scribe for next meeting

paulc: Sam will be chairing
... any volunteers to scribe?

adrianba volunteers

adjournment

paulc: adjourned

<paulc> adjourned at :18 after the hour.

RRSAgent: generate minutes

- DRAFT -

HTML Weekly Teleconference

18 Nov 2010

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