See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 14 October 2010
<kford> Topic, User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Weekly Telecon 2010-10-14 at 1700h UTC
I think so, perhaps we didn't close them, and zakim carried them forward
i haven't a clue
kelly, just say "agenda order is " and put in the items in the order you want to present them (5, 3, 1, 2, 4) and it will reorder them 5 as 1 etc.
<jeanne> keep trying, there are system problems
<kford> \zakim, microsoft is kford
<scribe> scribe: jallan
<Greg> Here's my suggested rewrite from email:
<Greg> Guideline 3.7 Provide volume control.
<Greg> Upshot: Let users adjust the volume of each audio track relative to the system volume, but respect global mute settings by default (3.7.1).
<Greg> 3.7.1 Audio Volume Control:* The user can /independently/ adjust the volume of all audio tracks <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-audio-track> the user agent renders, /relative/ to the global volume level set through operating environment <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100920/Overview.html#def-operating-environment> mechanisms. However, the user...
<Greg> ...agent should not override a global option that says audio should be muted unless this is optional, not enabled by default, and the user is cautioned as to its implications. [Alternate wording: /However, if audio is muted as the global level the user agent should not override this unless the behavior is optional, not enabled by default, and the user is cautioned as to its implications.]...
<Greg> ...(Level A)
mh: likes rewrite, questions alert mechanism
<Greg> By cautioning the user, I was imagining that the dialog box with a check box to override the default behavior could have static text cautioning the user, OR the user agent could prompt the user for confirmation when they try to turn on the overriding.
kf: any SC for synthesized speech. is this only about rendered speech, and not adjusting audio for talking UA
gl: nothing in the SC that says only rendered
mh, kf: but 'track' implies rendered audio.
kf: as long as we have SC for synthesizers, combining makes sense.
ja: confirms that 3.8 covers synthesized speech.
gl: software can't set volume independently, only relative to OS volume level.
kf: 3.7 is about rendered content
(even audio file containing synthesized speech)
... poll combine 3.7.1 and 2
all: yes
js: in toto a bit confusing, need
to reword, or reorder the examples
... likes volume control vs volume configuration
ja: +1
propose wording:
<jeanne> 3.7.1 Audio Volume Control:* The user can /independently/ adjust the volume of all audio tracks <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-audio-track> the user agent renders, /relative /to the global volume level set through operating environment <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100920/Overview.html#def-operating-environment> mechanisms. However, if audio is
<jeanne> muted as the global level the user agent should not override this unless the behavior is optional, not enabled by default, and the user is cautioned as to its implications. (e.g. the alarm clock application on a mobile device has an option to play the alarm even if the system is muted, provided the check box is normally unchecked and is accompanied by text cautioning the user about this behavior.
<jeanne> (Level A)*
<kford> ACTION: kford to provided updated text for implementing of combined 3.7.1 and 3.7.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-455 - Provided updated text for implementing of combined 3.7.1 and 3.7.2 [on Kelly Ford - due 2010-10-21].
jr: wording for 3.7.1 seems a bit long
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update 3.7.1 with the text above - Audio Volume Control [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-456 - Update 3.7.1 with the text above - Audio Volume Control [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-10-21].
gl: note at end was added, so readers would not have to read implementing document to understand SC
jr: this is a lot to parse
<Greg> Could shorten the parenthetical example to read only "(e.g. an alarm clock application has an option to play the alarm even if the system is muted)."
jr: if the global volume level is set to mute, then independently setting volume level above mute requires user confirmation or warning
gl: could flesh out in the implementation (more examples)
discussion of master control, and independent volume control
kf: accessibility - user can set volumes, up to the OS as to implementation
gl: add content from original email into implementation doc. would that help
kf: exception is longer than the rule.
jr: what is the accessibility issue
<kford> kford incorporate percentage volume concept in example.
kf: JS to use discretion for wording of new 3.7.1, kf will add volume/mute info to examples
<scribe> scribenick: jallan
<Greg> Here is one of the two proposed wordings from the email:
<Greg> 3.5.1 Highlighted items: The user has the option to highlight the following classes of information so that each is uniquely distinguished:
<Greg> * (a) selection,
<Greg> * (b) content focus,
<Greg> * (c) recognized enabled elements, and
<Greg> * (d) recently visited links.
<Greg> The highlighting options (with the same configurable range as the operating environment's conventional selection utilities) include at least (Level A):
<Greg> * (a) foreground colors,
<Greg> * (b) background colors, and
<Greg> * (c) outline (with configurable color and width).
<Greg> The changes from the current wording are (a) combining 3.5.2 into 3.5.1, and (b) changing the "input focus" attribute to "outline".
<Greg> The email also included a version which did NOT combine 3.5.2 into 3.5.1, instead revising 3.5.2 to refer explicitly to 3.5.1, as:
<Greg> 3.5.2 Highlighting options: When complying with 3.5.1, the highlighting options (with the same configurable range as the operating environment's conventional selection utilities) include at least (Level A):
<Greg> * (a) foreground colors,
<Greg> * (b) background colors, and
<Greg> * (c) outline (with configurable color and width).
a good article on focus control by Patrick Lauke http://24ways.org/2009/dont-lose-your-focus
jr: want to keep separate with reference to 3.5.1
kf: likes separate
mh: +1
ja: +1
gl: +1
<Greg> In my latest email I gave three possible wordings for the outline bullet item:
proposed wording for 3.5.1 & 2
<Greg> * "outline (with configurable color and width)", or
<Greg> * "outline (with configurable color and width, e.g. the CSS outline attribute)", or
<Greg> * "outline (with configurable width and color, including inversion)"
*3.5.1 Highlighted items:* The user has the option to highlight <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-highlight> the following classes of information so that each is uniquely distinguished. (Level A):
* *(a) selection*,
* *(b) content focus*,
* *(c) recognized <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-recognize> enabled elements*, and
* *(d) recently visited links*.
*3.5.2 Highlighting options:* When complying with 3.5.1, the highlighting options (with the same configurable range as the operating environment's <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-operating-environment> conventional selection utilities) include at least (Level A):
* *(a) foreground colors*,
* *(b) background colors*, and
* *(c) "outline (with configurable color and width, e.g. the CSS outline attribute)"
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to combine 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 using the text above [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-457 - Combine 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 using the text above [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-10-21].
<Greg> The CSS outline attribute covers color (including inversion), width, style (solid, dashed, etc.). Do we want to require all of those, or just color and width?
<kford> JAllan: If css chnages we don't want to have our item become outdated.
jr: may be other UA (flash) so may be other ways to 'outline' something
gl: advocates for inversion and animation for highly visible focus
<kford> +1
<Greg> The only way to get an outline that is guaranteed to be visible is to use inversion, and even better with inversion and animation (e.g. the original marching ants).
jr: agree with adding inversion
ja: +1
<Greg> "outline (with configurable width and color, including inversion)"
close action-457
<trackbot> ACTION-457 Update 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 using the text above closed
<scribe> ACTION: JS to update 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 using > *3.5.1 Highlighted items:* The user has the option to highlight <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-highlight> the following classes of information so that each is uniquely distinguished. (Level A): [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-458 - Update 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 using > *3.5.1 Highlighted items:* The user has the option to highlight <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-highlight> the following classes of information so that each is uniquely distinguished. (Level A): [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-10-21].
* *(a) selection*,
* *(b) content focus*,
* *(c) recognized <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-recognize> enabled elements*, and
* *(d) recently visited links*.
*3.5.2 Highlighting options:* When complying with 3.5.1, the highlighting options (with the same configurable range as the operating environment's <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/#def-operating-environment> conventional selection utilities) include at least (Level A):
* *(a) foreground colors*,
* *(b) background colors*, and
* *(c) outline (with configurable width and color, including inversion)
<kford> JA: I looked at this spec. Lots of stuff in there. Kind of wish Gregory was here because I think he has some serious concerns.
<kford> JA: Events on tab key for example. What to do in an edit box.
<kford> JA: loads of mouse events that have cancel but for some keyboard events unable to cancel.
<kford> JA: How do you cancel a key down for example?
<kford> Kelly and Jim to follow up with Gregory on his concerns. PF also now taking part of this up.
kf: who will attend F2
... kim, gregL, jeanne, jim, mark, jan (tentatively), simon
(some of the time)
... regrets PatrickL
... propose starting 7:30 PST
all +1
kf: shut down at 3 PST
discussion of phone, skype, video
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Found ScribeNick: jallan WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Archives Greg IPcaller JA Jan Jeanne MHakkenin Microsoft P1 P6 P7 Public Upshot all from gl html inserted jallan jr js kf kford lists mh mhakkinen org scribenick sharper trackbot w3 w3c-wai-ua You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Found Date: 14 Oct 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne js kford WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]