See also: IRC log
<MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Date: 22 July 2010
<MikeSmith> 11http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
<MikeSmith> kliehm, thanks much
<MikeSmith> scribenick: kliehm
<dboudreau> Hi everyone
<MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0101.html
<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
<MikeSmith> action-51?
<trackbot> ACTION-51 -- Steve Faulkner to document rationale for why having aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) -- due 2010-07-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/51
Yes, labelled-by and role rationale is in.
<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0038.html
<MikeSmith> action-51: labelled-by and role rationale appear to be in, and seems we can close this action
<trackbot> ACTION-51 Document rationale for why having aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) notes added
<MikeSmith> action-51: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0038.html
<trackbot> ACTION-51 Document rationale for why having aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) notes added
<MikeSmith> close action-51
<trackbot> ACTION-51 Document rationale for why having aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) closed
<MikeSmith> action-50?
<trackbot> ACTION-50 -- Janina Sajka to add some introductory text to requirement docs clarifying that these are user requirements, not necessarily UA requirements -- due 2010-07-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/50
Janina: It's overcome by events, everybody is clear that these are UA requirements.
<MikeSmith> action-50: overcome by events, everybody is quite clear on this
<trackbot> ACTION-50 Add some introductory text to requirement docs clarifying that these are user requirements, not necessarily UA requirements notes added
<MikeSmith> close action-50
<trackbot> ACTION-50 Add some introductory text to requirement docs clarifying that these are user requirements, not necessarily UA requirements closed
<MikeSmith> action-47?
<trackbot> ACTION-47 -- Steve Faulkner to file a bug with HTML 5 about making autocomplete consistent with ARIA, per comment 289 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289 -- due 2010-07-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/47
Steve F.: Not done yet, adding another week.
<MikeSmith> action-47 due 2010-07-29
<trackbot> ACTION-47 File a bug with HTML 5 about making autocomplete consistent with ARIA, per comment 289 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289 due date now 2010-07-29
<MikeSmith> action-28?
<trackbot> ACTION-28 -- Gregory Rosmaita to - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list -- due 2010-07-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/28
<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Alt_tech_appendix
<oedipus> action-28: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Alt_tech_appendix
<trackbot> ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list notes added
Gregory: Will be done on the weekend.
<MikeSmith> action-28: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Alt_tech_appendix
<trackbot> ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list notes added
Gregory: Work consists mainly of getting it on the wiki and cross-checking it against the spec.
<MikeSmith> action-28 due 2010-07-29
<trackbot> ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list due date now 2010-07-29
Mike: There haven't been any subgroup calls recently, but discussions on the mailing list. Rich has been in contact with the people who wrote a proposal.
<oedipus> chaals' alternate proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0192.html
<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0175.html
<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Map4NotAdom
<oedipus> rich questions to chaals: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0181.html
<oedipus> chaals reply to rich and james: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0182.html
<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0192.html
<oedipus> paulc, not a fully baked counter-proposal
Gregory: We wanted to push our proposal and Chaals to push his independently until the latter reaches a state where we can integrate both into one.
<paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-074
<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibility
<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibilitynonav
Paul C.: There are two change proposals, July 30 is the deadline for issue 74, it is the responsibility of the TF to come up with a proposal if Chaals fails to update his.
<oedipus> GJR remembers this conversation, given timelag with chaal's proposal we would submit the 2 under issue-74 and let chaals to move forward when submitted to HTML WG
<oedipus> paulc, i gave him a reminder yesterday in person
Discussion whether Chaals' proposal is sufficiently complete to merge it with the TF's proposal.
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Map4NotAdom
<oedipus> chaals' latest post: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0072.html
<oedipus> chaals from previous email: "I *think* it's ready"
Steve: Chaals' proposal seeks to maintain the charet tracking idea which is substantial to the TF's proposal.
<oedipus> prepare CANVAS for poll (minutes) http://www.w3.org/2010/06/07-html-a11y-minutes.html#item01
Paul C.: Will reply to Chaals sending a polite reminder to make sure either proposal is being progressed.
<oedipus> canvas discussion on apple's proposals: http://www.w3.org/2010/06/03-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02
Mike: Our main concern should be Hixie's critics on the feasibility of the caret tracking.
<oedipus> "RESOLUTION: HTML-a11y taskforce supports the proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/att-0054/2dcontext10-June-7.html as a resolution for ISSUE-74. Note that we *expect* a counter-proposal (based on image maps) which we would also support, but believe the wider working group should choose between them." http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02
Steve: Rich is in contact with Hixie, there's been conversation on the list.
Rich: Ian Hickson and Josh from Opera gave some feedback on the canvas proposal. I'm currently going through addressing their points. Once I'm done with this I will look at Chaals'.
<oedipus> note: it may be easier to track canvas issues by consulting the public-canvas-api email archive (http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-canvas-api)
Rich: Seems like people would like both solutions. I'm working on blending it.
Paul C.: You should say on the WG telcon we are in the process to review the proposals and that we are working on a single one.
Rich: Hixie had a question about the focus rectangle since the drawing path allows all kinds of shapes. I'm working on a solution.
<oedipus> please consult the threads in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/ to get a clear picture of canvas development
Rich: Question was what happens when people select and mark text. Hixie was of the opinion that this won't happen, otherwise they would look on how Windows handles those cases. Rich is going through the mails.
<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/
Rich: We have to get ARIA out on another last call and have to get ARIA integration done. So there's a bottleneck. With that background, how do we handle the deadline.
Janina: The deadline is for alternative proposals, it doesn't apply to finalizing a solution.
Rich: I want to merge this before August 9.
Paul: If issues remain open, like caret drawing, just mention that in the proposal and we can create a separate issue.
<Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
Steve: I think our document is ready to a point to bring it up before the TF, perhaps not ready for the WG yet.
<oedipus> stevef's ARIAinHTML5 change proposal "Resolves ISSUE-85 and ISSUE -109"
<Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
<Stevef> ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6
Rich: I came up with a change in the ARIA spec to address issues detected by that ARIA integration change proposal.
<oedipus> note: http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html replaces http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/embedded-content-0.html#annotations-for-assistive-technology-products-aria
Mike: We should try to get further feedback/responses to the proposal by email.
Cynthia: Some editorial work needs to be done.
<paulc> Re issue-74: Charles's change proposal has been added to http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-074
Steve: Either a survey or a call for consensus should be done soon so that the proposal can be forwarded to the WG.
<oedipus> GJR suggests a 48 or 72 hour CfC
<oedipus> proposed replacement prose (stevef) http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html
Mike/Janina: Request people for edits, start CfC late Monday or early Tuesday.
Cynthia: I think it is hard to understand from the spec what the rationale for some elements is, we are explaining it in the text. Feedback welcome how to make our points stronger.
<oedipus> Keyboard Access Requirements from PFWG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2010JulSep/0058.html -- note these are requirments for which the TF will decide what specific elements or attributes (existing or needed) are necessary for implementation
<oedipus> 2 minute warning
Mike: We'll post that to the wiki.
Michael: Chairs talked about
creating a subgroup for bug triage. No response on the mailing
list yet. We'd like to see Martin and Marco.
... +Sally
Marco + Martin: ack.
<dboudreau> have a great week all
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