RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference Minutes, 17 November 2011

RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 17 November 2011

Seen

Gregg Kellogg, Ivan Herman, Manu Sporny, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Stéphane Corlosquet, Ted Thibodeau, Thomas Steiner, Unknown Lindström, Unknown niklasl

Regrets

Manu Sporny, Steven Pemberton

Chair

Ivan Herman

Scribe

Gregg Kellogg

IRC Log

Original and Editable Wiki Version

Resolutions

HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes link
if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag link
Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element definition for datatypes link
add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion link
allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character link

Topics

admin
Low hanging fruits
link relations

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14:28:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-irc ←

14:28:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←

14:28:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←

14:28:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes ←

14:28:34 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

14:28:34 <trackbot> Date: 17 November 2011

14:28:41 <ivan> Chair: Ivan

14:28:53 <ivan> Regrets: Manu, Steven

14:29:13 <tomayac> sorry, i can only attend via IRC today

Thomas Steiner: sorry, i can only attend via IRC today ←

14:29:22 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda, Nov 17, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html

Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda, Nov 17, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html ←

14:29:32 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html agenda call

Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Nov/0112.html agenda call ←

14:29:49 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

14:29:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan ←

14:56:47 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

(No events recorded for 26 minutes)

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←

14:56:47 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←

14:56:48 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←

14:56:49 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←

14:58:20 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←

14:58:30 <ShaneM> zakim, I am ??P28

Shane McCarron: zakim, I am ??P28 ←

14:58:30 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←

14:59:54 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←

15:00:03 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P5

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P5 ←

15:00:12 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←

15:00:27 <ivan> scribe: Gregg

(Scribe set to Gregg Kellogg)

15:00:32 <ivan> scribenick: gkellogg

15:01:15 <Zakim> +scor

Zakim IRC Bot: +scor ←

15:01:38 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink] ←

15:01:55 <scor> zakim, who is on the phone?

Stéphane Corlosquet: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

15:01:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, [OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, [OpenLink] ←

15:01:59 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software ←

15:01:59 <MacTed> zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←

15:02:07 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it ←

15:02:09 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←

15:02:19 <ivan> Topic: admin

1. admin

15:02:32 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/meetings/2011-11-03 last meeting's minutes

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/meetings/2011-11-03 last meeting's minutes ←

15:02:52 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←

15:03:00 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +niklasl; got it ←

15:03:16 <gkellogg> Minutes accepted

Minutes accepted ←

15:03:45 <gkellogg> Next Thursday's meeting would be on Thanksgiving in the U.S.

Next Thursday's meeting would be on Thanksgiving in the U.S. ←

15:04:00 <gkellogg> // Propose to cancel next meeting.

// Propose to cancel next meeting. ←

15:04:03 <MacTed> s/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-03/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-10/

Ted Thibodeau: s/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-03/http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2010\/02\/rdfa\/meetings\/2011-11-10/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

15:04:13 <MacTed> (that *might* be escaped properly)

Ted Thibodeau: (that *might* be escaped properly) ←

15:04:45 <gkellogg> On to "low-hanging" fruit

On to "low-hanging" fruit ←

15:04:56 <ivan> Topic: Low hanging fruits

2. Low hanging fruits

15:05:03 <ivan> ISSUE-97?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-97? ←

15:05:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Determine if datetime should be supported in HTML5 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-97 -- Determine if datetime should be supported in HTML5 -- open ←

15:05:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/97

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/97 ←

15:05:42 <gkellogg> ivan: had mailing list discussion and there seems general agreement that it should be accepted.

Ivan Herman: had mailing list discussion and there seems general agreement that it should be accepted. ←

15:05:58 <gkellogg> … some details to settle, being specific XSD datatypes to use.

… some details to settle, being specific XSD datatypes to use. ←

15:06:13 <gkellogg> … dateTime, time, date, gYear, …, duration

… dateTime, time, date, gYear, …, duration ←

15:06:33 <gkellogg> … My proposal to keep to HTML5 micro syntax doc: dateTime, date, time.

… My proposal to keep to HTML5 micro syntax doc: dateTime, date, time. ←

15:06:34 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl ←

15:06:38 <MacTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←

15:06:51 <gkellogg> niklasl: agree that HTML5 spec should dictate allowed values.

Scribe problem: the name 'niklasl' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Henri Bergius Stéphane Corlosquet Jean-Pierre EVAIN Sebastian Germesin Ivan Herman Toby Inkster Gregg Kellogg Shane McCarron Ryan Mcdonough Knud Möller Steven Pemberton Nathan Rixham david schaengold Manu Sporny Thomas Steiner Ted Thibodeau Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown niklasl: agree that HTML5 spec should dictate allowed values. ←

15:07:09 <gkellogg> … not sure that the detail prevents using other XSD types

… not sure that the detail prevents using other XSD types ←

15:07:30 <ivan> ack MacTed

Ivan Herman: ack MacTed ←

15:07:32 <gkellogg> … all types are possible to unambiguously match. We could do this if HTML5 allows for it.

… all types are possible to unambiguously match. We could do this if HTML5 allows for it. ←

15:07:59 <gkellogg> MacTed: looking at the issue, it seems that TimeZones are catered for. If not, this must be addressed.

Ted Thibodeau: looking at the issue, it seems that TimeZones are catered for. If not, this must be addressed. ←

15:08:12 <tomayac> +1 to niklasl. let's have html5 dictate the allowed values.

Thomas Steiner: +1 to niklasl. let's have html5 dictate the allowed values. ←

15:08:13 <gkellogg> ivan: timezones are supported.

Ivan Herman: timezones are supported. ←

15:08:21 <gkellogg> … includes full microsyntax

… includes full microsyntax ←

15:08:25 <gkellogg> q+

q+ ←

15:08:27 <MacTed> q-

Ted Thibodeau: q- ←

15:08:31 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg ←

15:10:36 <gkellogg> gkellogg: HTML5 iso a moving target, and we should indicate willingness to follow.

Gregg Kellogg: HTML5 iso a moving target, and we should indicate willingness to follow. ←

15:11:01 <gkellogg> ivan: can make a proposal to add date, dateTime and date today, but intention is to follow the HTML5 spec.

Ivan Herman: can make a proposal to add date, dateTime and time today, but intention is to follow the HTML5 spec. ←

15:11:16 <MacTed> s/date today/time today/

15:11:35 <ivan> PROPOSAL: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes

PROPOSED: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes ←

15:11:49 <gkellogg> +1

+1 ←

15:11:49 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Niklas Lindstr\xc3\xb6m' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Henri Bergius Stéphane Corlosquet Jean-Pierre EVAIN Sebastian Germesin Ivan Herman Toby Inkster Gregg Kellogg Shane McCarron Ryan Mcdonough Knud Möller Steven Pemberton Nathan Rixham david schaengold Manu Sporny Thomas Steiner Ted Thibodeau Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Lindström: +1 ←

15:11:50 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

15:11:50 <tomayac> +1

Thomas Steiner: +1 ←

15:11:53 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←

15:11:54 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1 ←

15:11:56 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:12:02 <ivan> RESOLVED: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes

RESOLVED: HTML5+RDFa will add the time element with date, time, and dateTime, and will also express the intention to follow the time element discussion for subsequent datatypes ←

15:12:39 <gkellogg> ivan: side remark from jeni: we did say that if the lexical content does not match any datatype, then generate a plain literal.

Ivan Herman: side remark from jeni: we did say that if the lexical content does not match any datatype, then generate a plain literal. ←

15:12:53 <gkellogg> … however, it should ignore language setting.

… however, it should ignore language setting. ←

15:12:54 <gkellogg> q+

q+ ←

15:13:01 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg ←

15:13:09 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss language

Shane McCarron: q+ to discuss language ←

15:13:20 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Unknown Lindström: q+ ←

15:13:56 <ivan> ack ShaneM

Ivan Herman: ack ShaneM ←

15:13:56 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss language

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to discuss language ←

15:14:00 <gkellogg> gkellogg: also includes text content if there is no @datetime attribute.

Gregg Kellogg: also includes text content if there is no @datetime attribute. ←

15:14:12 <gkellogg> shanem: concerned about "plethora" of special cases.

Shane McCarron: concerned about "plethora" of special cases. ←

15:14:31 <gkellogg> … @about on root element is another example, and issues with <head> and <body>

… @about on root element is another example, and issues with <head> and <body> ←

15:15:11 <gkellogg> … including text content, otherwise it doesn't match gYear, ...

… including text content, otherwise it doesn't match gYear, ... ←

15:15:35 <gkellogg> … another example of something to keep track of, also the fact that there's no language.

… another example of something to keep track of, also the fact that there's no language. ←

15:15:51 <gkellogg> ivan: understand concern, but it generates better triples.

Ivan Herman: understand concern, but it generates better triples. ←

15:16:19 <gkellogg> … for element content, we always say that literals that we generate keep whitespace. We should maintain the general rule.

… for element content, we always say that literals that we generate keep whitespace. We should maintain the general rule. ←

15:16:53 <gkellogg> … It may mean that some patterns aren't matched, but they can be constructed to match.

… It may mean that some patterns aren't matched, but they can be constructed to match. ←

15:17:07 <gkellogg> niklasl: we don't normalize? (no we don't)

Unknown niklasl: we don't normalize? (no we don't) ←

15:17:15 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q? ←

15:17:17 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl ←

15:17:24 <Niklas Lindström> "Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:13:39 GMT"

Unknown Lindström: "Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:13:39 GMT" ←

15:17:27 <gkellogg> … agree with language.

… agree with language. ←

15:17:44 <gkellogg> ivan: this does not follow micro syntax.

Ivan Herman: this does not follow micro syntax. ←

15:18:02 <gkellogg> … would be a string (plain literal) with no language tag

… would be a string (plain literal) with no language tag ←

15:18:23 <ShaneM> q+ to get a clarification on element content

Shane McCarron: q+ to get a clarification on element content ←

15:18:41 <gkellogg> niklasl: don't think things are as bad as they seem, as we are making things helpful for authors.

Unknown niklasl: don't think things are as bad as they seem, as we are making things helpful for authors. ←

15:18:43 <ivan> ack ShaneM

Ivan Herman: ack ShaneM ←

15:18:44 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to get a clarification on element content

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to get a clarification on element content ←

15:18:58 <gkellogg> shanem: might be confused about earlier +1

Shane McCarron: might be confused about earlier +1 ←

15:19:29 <gkellogg> … thought we were agreeing on @datetime as dateTime, …. Otherwise no triple.

… thought we were agreeing on @datetime as dateTime, …. Otherwise no triple. ←

15:19:55 <gkellogg> ivan: we said in case string does not match any datatypes we put out a plain literal with the content.

Ivan Herman: we said in case string does not match any datatypes we put out a plain literal with the content. ←

15:20:16 <gkellogg> … it is the property plus the value as a plain literal without language.

… it is the property plus the value as a plain literal without language. ←

15:20:26 <gkellogg> … no XSD datatype

… no XSD datatype ←

15:21:08 <gkellogg> shanem: disagree with that, if it doesn't match the pattern, it should get language.

Shane McCarron: disagree with that, if it doesn't match the pattern, it should get language. ←

15:21:26 <ShaneM> <time property="my:time">its time to fly</time>

Shane McCarron: <time property="my:time">its time to fly</time> ←

15:21:39 <gkellogg> ivan: looking at nilasl's example, it is definitely in english.

Ivan Herman: looking at nilasl's example, it is definitely in english. ←

15:22:17 <ivan> PROPOSAL: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag

PROPOSED: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag ←

15:22:23 <gkellogg> +1

+1 ←

15:22:24 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1 ←

15:22:24 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←

15:22:26 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

15:22:26 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Unknown Lindström: +1 ←

15:22:34 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:22:36 <ivan> RESOLVED: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag

RESOLVED: if the datetime value does not match a datatype, it is put out as a plain literal, with possible language tag ←

15:22:36 <ShaneM> re: whitespace, this is what the spec says now:  A conforming RDFa Processor must preserve white space in both plain literals and XML literals. However, it may be the case that the architecture in which a processor operates has made changes to the white space in a document before that document ever reaches the RDFa Processor (e.g., [XMLSCHEMA-1] processors are permitted to 'normalize' white space in attribute values - see section 3.1.4). To ensure maximum con

Scribe problem: the name 're' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Henri Bergius Stéphane Corlosquet Jean-Pierre EVAIN Sebastian Germesin Ivan Herman Toby Inkster Gregg Kellogg Shane McCarron Ryan Mcdonough Knud Möller Steven Pemberton Nathan Rixham david schaengold Manu Sporny Thomas Steiner Ted Thibodeau Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown re: whitespace, this is what the spec says now: A conforming RDFa Processor must preserve white space in both plain literals and XML literals. However, it may be the case that the architecture in which a processor operates has made changes to the white space in a document before that document ever reaches the RDFa Processor (e.g., [XMLSCHEMA-1] processors are permitted to 'normalize' white space in attribute values - see section 3.1.4). To ensure maximum con [ Scribe Assist by Shane McCarron ] ←

15:22:43 <gkellogg> gkellogg: microdata-RDF should do the same.

Gregg Kellogg: microdata-RDF should do the same. ←

15:22:57 <gkellogg> ivan: manu must put this in the HTML5 document.

Ivan Herman: manu must put this in the HTML5 document. ←

15:23:22 <gkellogg> ACTION: fold into HTML5 document anything relevant from these minutes

ACTION: fold into HTML5 document anything relevant from these minutes ←

15:23:22 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - fold

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - fold ←

15:23:25 <ivan> ISSUE-113?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-113? ←

15:23:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 -- Add the value attribute of the HTML data element as a possible literal target for property -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-113 -- Add the value attribute of the HTML data element as a possible literal target for property -- open ←

15:23:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/113

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/113 ←

15:24:06 <gkellogg> ivan: value of @value attribute would become a literal target. Similar to @datetime, it is a moving target.

Ivan Herman: value of @value attribute would become a literal target. Similar to @datetime, it is a moving target. ←

15:24:08 <ShaneM> can datatype effect the interpretation of @value on data ?

Shane McCarron: can datatype effect the interpretation of @value on data ? ←

15:24:29 <gkellogg> … don't think we should try to guess datatype, must be added specifically.

… don't think we should try to guess datatype, must be added specifically. ←

15:24:33 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Unknown Lindström: q+ ←

15:24:37 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl ←

15:25:09 <gkellogg> niklasl: it might be that the value is intended to convey a "machine readable" value, so perhaps we should guess datatype.

Unknown niklasl: it might be that the value is intended to convey a "machine readable" value, so perhaps we should guess datatype. ←

15:25:32 <gkellogg> ivan: we have to rely on what we know today. Based on HTML5 document, we should not go down the road to guessing datatype.

Ivan Herman: we have to rely on what we know today. Based on HTML5 document, we should not go down the road to guessing datatype. ←

15:25:51 <gkellogg> … language tags issue comes up again.

… language tags issue comes up again. ←

15:26:13 <gkellogg> shanem: must be included, there's too much unknown.

Shane McCarron: must be included, there's too much unknown. ←

15:26:14 <gkellogg> q+

q+ ←

15:26:19 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg ←

15:26:37 <ShaneM> I agree that the language should be preserved for @value on data

Shane McCarron: I agree that the language should be preserved for @value on data ←

15:27:18 <Niklas Lindström> .. or a number

Unknown Lindström: .. or a number ←

15:27:34 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+ ←

15:28:02 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←

15:28:28 <gkellogg> ivan: I don't think we should go down the route to try to guessing the intention of the author.

Ivan Herman: I don't think we should go down the route to try to guessing the intention of the author. ←

15:28:29 <ShaneM> q+ to say that we can't know what @value means

Shane McCarron: q+ to say that we can't know what @value means ←

15:28:55 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Unknown Lindström: q+ ←

15:29:00 <gkellogg> … The @datetime is clearly there to describe time, for data we have no idea what it is for. It may create situations where the guess is wrong and do more harm than good.

… The @datetime is clearly there to describe time, for data we have no idea what it is for. It may create situations where the guess is wrong and do more harm than good. ←

15:29:10 <ivan> ack ShaneM

Ivan Herman: ack ShaneM ←

15:29:10 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to say that we can't know what @value means

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to say that we can't know what @value means ←

15:29:14 <gkellogg> … if author really wants datatypes, author should put it there.

… if author really wants datatypes, author should put it there. ←

15:29:22 <ShaneM> <data xml:lang='lt' value='veni, vidi, vici' />

Shane McCarron: <data xml:lang='lt' value='veni, vidi, vici' /> ←

15:29:53 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl ←

15:29:53 <gkellogg> shanem: data has no semantics, its "data". Even if I could pattern match it, it could be wrong.

Shane McCarron: data has no semantics, its "data". Even if I could pattern match it, it could be wrong. ←

15:30:17 <gkellogg> nilasl: it's too early for us to do anything based on maturity of HTML5 spec.

Scribe problem: the name 'nilasl' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ben Adida Benjamin Adrian Henri Bergius Stéphane Corlosquet Jean-Pierre EVAIN Sebastian Germesin Ivan Herman Toby Inkster Gregg Kellogg Shane McCarron Ryan Mcdonough Knud Möller Steven Pemberton Nathan Rixham david schaengold Manu Sporny Thomas Steiner Ted Thibodeau Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown nilasl: it's too early for us to do anything based on maturity of HTML5 spec. ←

15:30:26 <MacTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←

15:30:33 <gkellogg> … it's called "data" as it's clearly intended for machine readable datatypes.

… it's called "data" as it's clearly intended for machine readable datatypes. ←

15:30:44 <ivan> ack MacTed

Ivan Herman: ack MacTed ←

15:30:45 <gkellogg> … otherwise, it's just an alias for <span>.

… otherwise, it's just an alias for <span>. ←

15:31:05 <gkellogg> shanem: how can you be sure of intended datatype?

Shane McCarron: how can you be sure of intended datatype? ←

15:31:28 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+ ←

15:32:24 <gkellogg> shanem: <time> is clear, but <data> is not.

Shane McCarron: <time> is clear, but <data> is not. ←

15:32:34 <gkellogg> … too many possibilities.

… too many possibilities. ←

15:32:36 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←

15:33:14 <gkellogg> ivan: I could say that I might intuit the language of a string and add the language to the literal. That's not our job.

Ivan Herman: I could say that I might intuit the language of a string and add the language to the literal. That's not our job. ←

15:33:47 <gkellogg> ivan: if HTML5 comes up with a micro syntax, we can look at again. Until then, we should not try to guess it.

Ivan Herman: if HTML5 comes up with a micro syntax, we can look at again. Until then, we should not try to guess it. ←

15:35:22 <gkellogg> niklasl: revisit if the HTML5 spec becomes more clear.

Unknown niklasl: revisit if the HTML5 spec becomes more clear. ←

15:35:54 <ivan> PROPOSAL: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element defintion for datatypes

PROPOSED: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element defintion for datatypes ←

15:36:01 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Unknown Lindström: +1 ←

15:36:07 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←

15:36:10 <gkellogg> +1

+1 ←

15:36:10 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:36:10 <tomayac> +1

Thomas Steiner: +1 ←

15:36:13 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

15:36:17 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1 ←

15:36:23 <ivan> RESOLVED: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element defintion for datatypes

RESOLVED: Accept a <data> element with the @value attribute generating a plain literal with language retained; the HTML5+RDFa document will follow possible evolution of that element definition for datatypes ←

15:36:27 <scor> s/defintion/definition

15:36:59 <gkellogg> ACTION: manu1 to resolve to implement 97 and 113

ACTION: manu1 to resolve to implement 97 and 113 ←

15:36:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Resolve to implement 97 and 113 [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-11-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-104 - Resolve to implement 97 and 113 [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-11-24]. ←

15:37:04 <ivan> ISSUE-116?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-116? ←

15:37:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-116 -- Consider owl terms for vocab expansion -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-116 -- Consider owl terms for vocab expansion -- open ←

15:37:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/116

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/116 ←

15:37:45 <gkellogg> issue: this would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass.

ISSUE: this would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass. ←

15:37:45 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-120 - This would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/120/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-120 - This would mean adding to the current set of terms owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/120/edit . ←

15:38:20 <gkellogg> gkellogg: didn't mean to create an issue, will remove it :(

Gregg Kellogg: didn't mean to create an issue, will remove it :( ←

15:38:57 <gkellogg> q+

q+ ←

15:38:57 <ivan> PROPOSED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion

PROPOSED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion ←

15:39:50 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg ←

15:40:13 <gkellogg> gkellogg: concerned that it adds a greater burden if we don't replace rdfs:subClassOf, etc.

Gregg Kellogg: concerned that it adds a greater burden if we don't replace rdfs:subClassOf, etc. ←

15:40:57 <gkellogg> ivan: we can't remove the others.

Ivan Herman: we can't remove the others. ←

15:41:47 <gkellogg> niklasl: OWL does build on RDFS.

Unknown niklasl: OWL does build on RDFS. ←

15:41:53 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

15:41:55 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Unknown Lindström: +1 ←

15:41:57 <gkellogg> +1

+1 ←

15:42:02 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1 ←

15:42:11 <ivan> RESOLVED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion

RESOLVED: add owl:equivalentProperty and owl:equivalentClass to the set of terms for the vocab expansion ←

15:42:12 <tomayac> n/a

Thomas Steiner: n/a ←

15:42:26 <gkellogg> ivan: already made a version on the core document, and will CVS commit it.

Ivan Herman: already made a version on the core document, and will CVS commit it. ←

15:42:53 <gkellogg> … instead of referring to RDFS entailment, refer to OWL ruleset.

… instead of referring to RDFS entailment, refer to OWL ruleset. ←

15:43:08 <gkellogg> q+

q+ ←

15:43:14 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg ←

15:43:55 <gkellogg> gkellogg: need to figure out how to deal with optional tests for these issues.

Gregg Kellogg: need to figure out how to deal with optional tests for these issues. ←

15:44:15 <gkellogg> shanem: the whole is option, implement all or none.

Shane McCarron: the whole is option, implement all or none. ←

15:44:30 <ivan> ISSUE-118?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-118? ←

15:44:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Should we consider allowing the '/' character in a term -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-118 -- Should we consider allowing the '/' character in a term -- open ←

15:44:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/118

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/118 ←

15:45:13 <gkellogg> ivan: "term" defined as NCNAME, meaning that it must begin with a apha char and can't have a '/'.

Ivan Herman: "term" defined as NCNAME, meaning that it must begin with a alpha char and can't have a '/'. ←

15:45:19 <gkellogg> s/apha/alpha/

15:45:21 <ShaneM> NCTERM is a simple term definintion that does not allow a colon

Shane McCarron: NCTERM is a simple term definintion that does not allow a colon ←

15:45:23 <ShaneM> NC == No Colon

Shane McCarron: NC == No Colon ←

15:45:46 <gkellogg> ivan: propose to allow both a number as a first character and a '/'

Ivan Herman: propose to allow both a number as a first character and a '/' ←

15:45:58 <gkellogg> shanem: can have a number with NCNAME, just not an ID.

Shane McCarron: can have a number with NCNAME, just not an ID. ←

15:46:03 <ShaneM> vocab=foo

Shane McCarron: vocab=foo ←

15:46:11 <ShaneM> property='shane'

Shane McCarron: property='shane' ←

15:46:17 <ShaneM> vocab="foo#'

Shane McCarron: vocab="foo#' ←

15:46:24 <ShaneM> foo#shane

Shane McCarron: foo#shane ←

15:46:30 <ShaneM> foo#123shane

Shane McCarron: foo#123shane ←

15:46:54 <gkellogg> shanem: can't dereference foo:123shane

shanem# can't dereference foo#123shane ←

15:47:02 <gkellogg> s/:/#/

15:47:07 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Unknown Lindström: q+ ←

15:47:13 <gkellogg> ivan: so issue is, can we allow a '/'

Ivan Herman: so issue is, can we allow a '/' ←

15:47:13 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl ←

15:47:24 <gkellogg> niklasl: but not as the first character

Unknown niklasl: but not as the first character ←

15:47:59 <gkellogg> … can an identifier (NCNAME) begin with a '/'?

… can an identifier (NCNAME) begin with a '/'? ←

15:48:04 <gkellogg> shanem: can't have one at all.

Shane McCarron: can't have one at all. ←

15:48:09 <Niklas Lindström> .. fragment identifer

Unknown Lindström: .. fragment identifer ←

15:48:17 <gkellogg> ivan: we're talking about a term which is concatenated.

Ivan Herman: we're talking about a term which is concatenated. ←

15:48:33 <Niklas Lindström> .. vocab="foo#term-"

Unknown Lindström: .. vocab="foo#term-" ←

15:48:42 <gkellogg> … vocab="foo", term="/shane" get "foo/shane".

… vocab="foo", term="/shane" get "foo/shane". ←

15:48:57 <gkellogg> … don't see this as an important use case, but don't see why it should be restricted.

… don't see this as an important use case, but don't see why it should be restricted. ←

15:49:01 <ShaneM> I have no objection to allowing a slash, but not as the first character....q+ to talk about restrictions

Shane McCarron: I have no objection to allowing a slash, but not as the first character....q+ to talk about restrictions ←

15:50:02 <gkellogg> shanem: we don't have ambiguity now because of datatype restrictions. We only use terms with absURI or CURIE.

Shane McCarron: we don't have ambiguity now because of datatype restrictions. We only use terms with absURI or CURIE. ←

15:50:38 <gkellogg> niklasl: thinking about problems with JSON-LD which may come up here in RDFa.

Unknown niklasl: thinking about problems with JSON-LD which may come up here in RDFa. ←

15:50:43 <ivan> PROPOSAL: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character

PROPOSED: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character ←

15:50:55 <Niklas Lindström> +1

Unknown Lindström: +1 ←

15:50:58 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

15:51:00 <gkellogg> +1

+1 ←

15:51:02 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←

15:51:04 <tomayac> +1

Thomas Steiner: +1 ←

15:51:14 <MacTed> +2

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:51:20 <ivan> RESOLVED: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character

RESOLVED: allow '/' character to appear in a term, except for the first character ←

15:51:20 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1 ←

15:51:24 <MacTed> s/2/1/

15:51:25 <MacTed> :-)

Ted Thibodeau: :-) ←

15:51:44 <gkellogg> ivan: will commit changes on document with OWL terms. Shane, can you make this change?

Ivan Herman: will commit changes on document with OWL terms. Shane, can you make this change? ←

15:52:13 <gkellogg> ivan: high-hanging fruit ...

Ivan Herman: high-hanging fruit ... ←

15:52:18 <ivan> Topic: link relations

3. link relations

15:52:23 <ivan> ISSUE-108?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-108? ←

15:52:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-108 -- Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile. -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-108 -- Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile. -- open ←

15:52:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108 ←

15:52:46 <gkellogg> ivan: we had the discussion a few weeks ago and thought we had resolved it.

Ivan Herman: we had the discussion a few weeks ago and thought we had resolved it. ←

15:53:27 <gkellogg> … IANA seemed reasonable, since then, information is that HTML5 decided not to use it, but instead they rely on the Microformat Wiki.

… IANA seemed reasonable, since then, information is that HTML5 decided not to use it, but instead they rely on the Microformat Wiki. ←

15:53:44 <gkellogg> … this makes the list changeable and relatively uncontrolled.

… this makes the list changeable and relatively uncontrolled. ←

15:53:49 <gkellogg> q+

q+ ←

15:54:15 <ivan> ack gkellogg

Ivan Herman: ack gkellogg ←

15:54:17 <gkellogg> … must revisit decision. My feeling is to drop link relations altogether.

… must revisit decision. My feeling is to drop link relations altogether. ←

15:55:17 <gkellogg> gkellogg: I'd drop them too.

Gregg Kellogg: I'd drop them too. ←

15:55:18 <Niklas Lindström> q+

Unknown Lindström: q+ ←

15:55:50 <gkellogg> shanem: I don't appreciate the concern about the potential difference between HTML5's and our own. We should continue to use our existing definitions.

Shane McCarron: I don't appreciate the concern about the potential difference between HTML5's and our own. We should continue to use our existing definitions. ←

15:56:07 <ivan> ack niklasl

Ivan Herman: ack niklasl ←

15:56:09 <gkellogg> … Wiki and IANA solve a non-problem.

… Wiki and IANA solve a non-problem. ←

15:56:25 <gkellogg> niklasl: worried about creative commons use of license.

Unknown niklasl: worried about creative commons use of license. ←

15:56:59 <gkellogg> ivan: we previously raised with ben, as people commonly use "cc:" prefix. (not too sure, though).

Ivan Herman: we previously raised with ben, as people commonly use "cc:" prefix. (not too sure, though). ←

15:57:12 <gkellogg> … CC encourages the use of prefixes and CURIEs.

… CC encourages the use of prefixes and CURIEs. ←

15:57:51 <gkellogg> ivan: can't push through a resolution now.

Ivan Herman: can't push through a resolution now. ←

15:58:12 <gkellogg> … general sense is agreement, but shanem is not in favor of this.

… general sense is agreement, but shanem is not in favor of this. ←

15:58:28 <gkellogg> … can't push for a resolution at the top of the hour.

… can't push for a resolution at the top of the hour. ←

15:58:46 <gkellogg> niklasl: expressed questions on the mailing list.

Unknown niklasl: expressed questions on the mailing list. ←

15:58:55 <gkellogg> ivan: continue discussion on the mailing list.

Ivan Herman: continue discussion on the mailing list. ←

15:59:38 <gkellogg> ivan: open issues, @href content model of URL

Ivan Herman: open issues, @href content model of URL ←

15:59:47 <gkellogg> … <head> and <body> issues.

… <head> and <body> issues. ←

15:59:59 <gkellogg> … replace @about with @resource in RDFa Lite

… replace @about with @resource in RDFa Lite ←

16:00:02 <gkellogg> … Link Relations.

… Link Relations. ←

16:00:34 <gkellogg> … These seem to be remaining issues. Suggest that we try to reach equilibrium on mailing list so that we can make an easy decision.

… These seem to be remaining issues. Suggest that we try to reach equilibrium on mailing list so that we can make an easy decision. ←

16:00:50 <gkellogg> … We should publish a draft in Dec. that resolves these issues.

… We should publish a draft in Dec. that resolves these issues. ←

16:01:13 <gkellogg> ivan: no meeting next week.

Ivan Herman: no meeting next week. ←

16:02:06 <Zakim> -gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←

16:02:08 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←

16:02:10 <Zakim> -scor

Zakim IRC Bot: -scor ←

16:02:12 <Zakim> -niklasl

Zakim IRC Bot: -niklasl ←

16:02:16 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

16:02:20 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended ←

16:02:26 <Zakim> Attendees were Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, MacTed, niklasl

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ivan, ShaneM, gkellogg, scor, MacTed, niklasl ←

16:02:29 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

16:02:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-rdfa-minutes.html ivan ←

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This revision (#1) generated 2011-11-17 16:12:20 UTC by 'unknown', comments: None