SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 23 Nov 2009

<trackbot> Date: 23 November 2009

\me zakim, drop shepazu

<scribe> scribenick: shepazu

SVG 1.1 2nd Ed

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

<ed> 12 open issues, 22 open actions

issue-2013?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2013 -- Percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask unintuitive -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013

<ChrisL> issue-2013?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2013 -- Percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask unintuitive -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013

<ed> moved to SVG Core 2.0

Resolution: we will move this to SVG 2.0

issue-2017?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2017 -- Find sane values for getSubStringLength and selectSubString -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017

<ed> ACTION-2325?

<trackbot> ACTION-2325 -- Doug Schepers to propose wording and examples for ISSUE-2107 -- due 2008-10-30 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2325

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0239.html

<ed> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-svg-minutes.html#action02

ed: heycam didn't see a strong argument either way
... what should we do with this? close it or take it up again?

jwatt: acid3 depends on this behavior?

ed: it did at one time
... we did change the behavior in the spec for the better

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/changes.html#TextChapter

shepazu: we might look at this more closely in SVG 2.0

ed: right

<ChrisL> i think its closed, for 1.1

jwatt: the current errata makes sense to me

resolution: close the issue

issue-2071?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2071 -- potential security hole involving pointer-events, filters, foreignObject, cross-origin IFRAMEs, and elementFromPoint -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2071

resolution: move to SVG 2.0

issue-2113?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2113 -- animate-elem-35 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2113

<ed> ISSUE-2213?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2213 -- Some issues in the definition of suspendRedraw/unsuspendRedraw/forceRedraw -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2213

resolution: defer to SVG 2.0

issue-2217?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2217 -- How units are resolved on an SVGLength is not defined -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2217

Resolution: move to SVG 2.0

issue-2219?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2219 -- Missing test coverage for SVG 1.1 properties -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2219

jwatt: we should put this off until we decide on the new test format

Resolution: resolve in SVG 2.0

issue-2259?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2259 -- Inconsistent use of <uri> symbol -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPathProperty

ed: didn't we resolve this in second edition?

ChrisL: basically, this is rolling in changes we made in SVGT1.2
... it should be easy to do

<scribe> ACTION: ChrisL to make funcURI consistent, and update tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2697 - Make funcURI consistent, and update tests [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-11-30].

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#InterfaceSVGViewSpec

<ChrisL> issue-2263?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2263 -- The attributes on the SVGViewSpec interface are underspecified -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2263

shepazu: we will have to reexamine this in the context of the new SVG DOM API, anyway

Resolution: defer to SVG 2.0

issue-2294?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2294 -- Adding an animated length attribute into a baseval length list -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2294

jwatt: I was going to write an email about this...
... maybe we need some custom error about removing items from the original list (readonly)
... maybe we should have a "copy" method?
... let's address this in the new DOM API

Resolution: move to SVG 2.0

issue-2299?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2299 -- Text on a path layout rules unclear wrt startpoint-on-the-path and text-anchor -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2299

ChrisL: I don't think they are contradictory, they seem to be saying the same thing in different ways
... it's using "start point" for 2 different things...
... it's talking about shifting the initial start point

ed: it's ambiguous enough that implementations all do different things
... but I'm not sure it's critical for SVG 1.1 2nd ed.

shepazu: I want this fixed because it's important... could we start a 3rd edition errata in addition to SVG 2.0?

ChrisL: we could do... we need to test all of this better, too

ed: one way to start off easy is to have a straight line as the textPath for tests that describe the start point

ChrisL: good idea

resolution: keep as SVG 1.1 3rd edition errata, but duplicate for SVG 2.0, to make sure it's addressed in both

issue-2301?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2301 -- Text on a path layout rules unclear wrt startpoint-on-the-path and text-anchor (svg2) -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2301

ed: 23 pending actions left

s23 pending actions left/23 pending actions left left left

action-2077?

<trackbot> ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077

action-2203?

<trackbot> ACTION-2203 -- Doug Schepers to add to the 1.1 Full errata that the initial value for the root overflow property is scroll rather than hidden -- due 2008-09-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2203

action-2404?

<trackbot> ACTION-2404 -- Doug Schepers to add errata item for root overflow -- due 2009-01-22 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2404

list activity

ed: discussion about transforms, getIntersectionList, DOM constructors, image clarification, z-index

ChrisL: I wonder if alex addressed this to their satisfaction?
... a good example might help

<ChrisL> suppose a filter brings in a greyscale image with feimage, then we do an rgb fecomponenttransfer. that should work

<ChrisL> it wont give an error

<ChrisL> so that is what "as it its promoted to RGBA" means

ChrisL: when we say, "implement as if...", then things that fall out of the model still have to work
... action to respond to image clarification email with concrete example

<scribe> ACTION: ChrisL to respond to image clarification email with concrete example [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2698 - Respond to image clarification email with concrete example [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-11-30].

ed: anthony addressed the transforms issues
... Dr. Olaf pointed to his older email... did we address this?

anthony: not sure

ChrisL: Dr. Olaf raised a good point, CSS didn't consider animation when they specified angles, which need to be normalized, and since they now have animation this affects them too... we should raise this with the CSS WG

anthony: I'll take a crack at replying to Dr. Olaf

DOM constructors

<anthony> scribe: anthony

DS: Just started off with basically describing
... what we had proposed
... because he didn't read the proposal page
... just ready the 'what sort of problems we have' page
... he also proposed that we use the innerHTML method for larger document fragments
... and Brois said that innerHTML has been optimised because browsers have to parse already
... so that's one thing they optermise for
... Boris seemed to be have mixed responses about sending in a property bag object for element constructors would help the performance
... I definitely under the impression from taking to implementers that setting attributes individually was a huge performance hit

<shepazu> ChrisL: if it's done right, it should be a performance gain, and is never a performance hit

CL: It can be an atomic operation

<shepazu> shepazu: and it's much nicer for authoring

DS: It's much nicer for authors

<shepazu> shepazu: Jeff may not have considered the issue of the namespace of an element when he criticized using createElement as an element method

<shepazu> shepazu: jwatt, what's your impression?

<shepazu> jwatt: boris seemed to refute some of the performance points that Jeff pointed to

<shepazu> ... but it's about ease of authoring, not so much performance

<shepazu> ... boris says it's hard to predict performance

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#html-fragment-parsing-algorithm

<shepazu> ed: have we verified that innerHTML would work with SVG?

<shepazu> ... I'm reading it, and it doesn't seem great for SVG

<shepazu> jwatt: I can test it, don't know offhand

<shepazu> ACTION: jwatt to test innerHTML for applicability to SVG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2699 - to test innerHTML for applicability to SVG [on Jonathan Watt - due 2009-11-30].

<shepazu> shepazu: speaking of this, what's the standard way of doing ASV's printNode?

<shepazu> jwatt: I have a wrapper

<jwatt> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/wrappers.js

<shepazu> ed: maybe for innerHTML, it needs to be put into the foreign-content mode...

<shepazu> ... otherwise you have to wrap everything in <svg>

<ChrisL> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.3a1pre) Gecko/20091122 Minefield/3.7a1pre

<ed> <html><svg id="foo">...</svg><script>$("foo").innerHTML="<rect width='100' height='100' fill='green'/></html>

<shepazu> ed: anything that conflicts with HTML element names might cause a problem

<ed> so test <font>, <video>, <audio>, <textArea>... any others?

<shepazu> jwatt: about the F2F... I'm probably not coming

<shepazu> ... mozilla thinks 4 meetings a year is too frequent

<shepazu> shepazu: actually, I think it's 3 meetings a year now

<shepazu> shepazu: maybe we should examine who would be able to attend

<shepazu> ed: what about relocating it?

<shepazu> trackbot, end telcon

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

23 Nov 2009

Attendees

Contents

SVG 1.1 2nd Ed

list activity

DOM constructors

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output