W3C

- DRAFT -

Widgets Voice Conference

12 Nov 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Art, Marcin, Marcos, Arve, Robin, David_Rogers
Regrets
Frederick, David
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art

Contents


 

 

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

Date: 12 November 2009

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<Marcos> yikes!

Review and tweak agenda

AB: draft agenda submitted on Nov 11 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0631.html ).
... One change request is to add a third topic for the VM-MF spec "more precision on full screen" ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0541.html ).
... another change request is to talk briefly about our plans for the P&C Candidate #2
... and we will drop 5.b since David won't be here and we'll discuss that topic on next call if it remains open
... any other change requests?

[ None ]

Announcements

AB: any short announcements? I don't have any

[ None ]

<marcin> Agenda point 5. should point to: http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-vmmf/

P&C spec: Constrained specification of <icon>

AB: during last week's f2f meeting we discussed an <icon> issue that Magnus raised ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0445.html ). Since then, one of his colleagues expanded on their concern via ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0567.html ).
... Marcos and I discussed this issue in IRC earlier today. The P&C spec doesn't actually specify what a WUA will do with the icon elements. Thus, it seems like the text about the optional width and height attributes only applying to formats with "intrinsic" width/height can be removed.
... what do people think about this issue?

MC: I don't think removing the text would be problematic
... but I want to review it more thoroughly
... now, width and height processing is limited
... WUA are free to interpret w/h as they want
... thus I think we should remain silent on what the WUA does with these two attributes

AB: Marcin, any comments?

MH: I haven't looked at it yet

AB: the action now is for people to respond on the mail list
... Marcos, will you do that?

MC: yes, but need to check again the proposal
... my gut feel is that we should leave this to impl
... but if we delete those two statements, I don't think it will affect implementations

AB: agree on the "will not affect impls"

P&C spec: Candidate publication plans

AB: LCWD#3 comments end on 19 November
... assuming we get no major comments, we will want to publish CR#2 ASAP

MC: yes, that's correct

AB: I need to schedule a director's call
... I started that process
... tentative dates are Nov 23-25 range

MC: those dates are OK with me

<scribe> ACTION: barstow schedule a Director's Call for P&C CR #2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-451 - Schedule a Director's Call for P&C CR #2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19].

RB: we can go to CR while the CfE period is in effect but we can't go to PR until CfE ends

AB: good; I'll clarify that with the Team
... best case is we enter CR in November
... CfE ends 28 December
... still need to determine interop plans

TWI spec: test suite status

AB: Marcos, you wanted to give a short status on TWI test suite

MC: I've started working on it
... but haven't uploaded test cases yet

<Marcos> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/test-suite/

MC: ignore the doc's title
... but this document includes the test file template
... we can gain from the P&C experience
... should be easier to create tests
... and provide better feedback on Pass/Fail
... If people have feedback, please send it!

AB: this is excellent
... to clarify, you are OK with going to LC now but don't want to enter CR until the test cases are completed?

MC: yes, that's correct

AB: anything else on the test suite for today?

MC: no, not for now
... there are only about 10 testable assertions in the spec
... thus I think there will only be 30-40 test cases
... so realtively small compared to P&C test suite

AB: ok; good

TWI spec: Call for consensus to publish LC#2

AB: last week I sent a heads-up that today we would discuss whether or not the TWI spec ( http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api ) is ready to be published as a new LC (LC#2). Comments?

[ None ]

<darobin> +1

AB: proposed resolution: the group agrees The Widgets Interface spec is ready for LCWD publication
... any objections?

[ None ]

RESOLUTION: the group agrees The Widgets Interface spec is ready for LCWD publication

AB: do we want a 3-week comment period?
... given this is LC#2, I think 3 weeks is OK

MC: ok with me

AB: any other feedback?

MH: ok with me too

AB: we will use a 3-week comment period
... who should we ask to review this LC?
... Marcos, do you recall who we asked to review the 1st LC?

<scribe> ACTION: barstow determine the list of reviewers for TWI LC#2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-452 - Determine the list of reviewers for TWI LC#2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19].

<scribe> ACTION: barstow submit a publication request for TWI LCWD #2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-453 - Submit a publication request for TWI LCWD #2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19].

<scribe> ACTION: marcos prepare TWI spec for LCWD #2 publication on Nov 24 with a comment period ending December 15 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-454 - Prepare TWI spec for LCWD #2 publication on Nov 24 with a comment period ending December 15 [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-11-19].

MC: can we get it published sooner

AB: oops, that's my mistake; the pub date will be Nov 17
... and the 3-week comment period will end Dec 8
... Thanks for catching that MC!

VM-MF spec: issues by Magus

AB: on November 2 Magnus submitted an email re viewmode issues ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0446.html )
... my comment on point #1 is that the titles for the views carry quite a bit of historical baggage
... and thus are somewhat confusing

Arve: re point #1
... this is a legacy issue
... Opera's initial impl only supported one mode

AB: would you please Arve, respond to point #1 on the mail list?

Arve: yes, will do

ACTION Arve respond to point #1 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0446.html

<trackbot> Created ACTION-455 - Respond to point #1 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0446.html [on Arve Bersvendsen - due 2009-11-19].

AB: re point #2, is that in scope for VM-I spec?

MH: yes, it is

<marcin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0047.html

MH: I submitted an email about this
... we need to discuss what the view modes mean
... in my email I deteremined quite a large number of possible values
... I agree "all" could be removed
... it is the same as not specifying any

<Marcos> +q

<Marcos> -q

AB: re point #3, Marcos responded but Magnus did not reply

Arve: re point #2, the VM spec doesn't include any sec considerations
... and that's a bug, especially for full screen

<drogersuk> David here

<drogersuk> I proposed some security considerations

AB: we will discuss VM-MF sec concerns next week

<drogersuk> I'm here - happy to discuss now

<drogersuk> can't join the call though

david - can you join the call next week?

I'd rather discuss this when we can talk about it. OK?

<drogersuk> yes but I'd prefer we agree this now

<drogersuk> I put it into the F2F and that was over a week ago

we decided at the beginning of the week to not include this today

<drogersuk> Why?

because "I'd rather discuss this when we can talk about it."

<drogersuk> ok, let me leave the meeting and join the call

<drogersuk> let's do it now

Arve: I will respond to Magnus mail

AB: OK

VM-MF spec: more precision on full screen

AB: an old thread was re-started about the viewmodes, in particular the full screen mode ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0541.html ). Marcos, Robin?
... where do we stand on this?

MC: I think we agree we need to define base semantics to each mode
... with each mode there are some potential security implications
... our discussion was about to what level of detail the modes must be defined

RB: nothing else to add; agree with Marcos' summary

AB: have we captured all of the relevant properties?
... is the set of properties complete?

MH: we may have some issues with full screen and the properties

<marcin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0047.html

MH: we may need another property
... we have one media feature now but maybe we need more than one
... otherwise, we may have some border cases that aren't defined

MC: at the f2f I proposed a viewport media rule
... I need to formalize that proposal
... I don't understand the interactivity proposal

<marcin> arve, probably yes

Arve: re interactivity, either the media is interactive or not (e.g. print or screen)
... think we should ask AnneVK
... not sure how to specify this or if we should specify it

AB: can you Arve chat with Anne about this?

Arve: yes, ok

AB: so there is an open action for all to continue discussions and for Marcin to drive toward closure on the open issues

MH: yes, and I will start by removing all to align with P&C

VM-MF spec: security considerations by Davi

<Marcos> d

AB: View modes security considerations; David Rogers (2-Nov) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0438.html
... David?

DR: this is an input for the VM-MF spec

MH: I can add this info

DR: I presented it at the f2
... not clear why we need to wait for ratification

AB: the general process is if there is no discussion on an input then we add it to the agenda

MC: have you looked at the sec consids in the P&C spec?

DR: yes; tried to align it with what is in the P&C spec
... understand we want a sec consids section per spec

<Marcos> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#media-type-registration-for-applicationw

MC: we had to do it for P&C because of the IETF req for that info be in the P&C for the MT reg

DR: I will need to look at it

MC: the deadline is Nov 19
... for P&C LC#3 comments

DR: does anyone object to my input?

MC: we have no objections
... think we need considerations per view mode
... i.e. "these are the sec consids" for fullscreen, etc.
... we can build on your input

DR: I'm happy if the Editor will add my input

AB: anything else on this topic?

WARP spec: IRI normalization

AB: on November 2, Dom submitted two comments re the WARP spec ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0442.html and ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0443.html ).
... any feedback on Dom's comments?

ACTION darobin respond to Dom's two comments about WARP submitted on Nov 2

<trackbot> Created ACTION-456 - Respond to Dom's two comments about WARP submitted on Nov 2 [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-19].

MC: are there any updates to WARP spec?

RB: not since TPAC

MC: when will it be ready for review?

RB: please review ASAP

AB: last week I sent out a call for comments
... we can set aside a big chunk of time on Nov 19 for WARP if needed

WARP spec: comments from Bryan

AB: on November 2, Bryan submitted some comments re WARP ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0437.html ). Marcos and Bryan have been going back and forth on this.
... without Bryan here, not sure we should deep dive on this

MC: Marcin also responded

MH: yes, I did

MC: would be good if Robin also responded

RB: yes, I'll get to that

AB: let's skip this topic for today ...

WARP spec: local addresses and UPnP

AB: on November 2, Marcin submitted some comments comments re WARP and local addressees and UPnP ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0456.html )

MH: we talked about UPnP a bit during last week's f2f meeting
... we may want to add some additional support for local hosts
... support private IP ranges
... local nets with IPv6 can be problematic
... IPv6 provides a means to know if an address is local
... want to make the spec future-proof

AB: who can we ask to review this proposal?

MH: perhaps some IETF people

Arve: I think we need an agreement within the group before talking to IETF
... I need some time to understand MH's proposal

AB: can you get some comments within 1 week Arve?

Arve: yes

AB: all should send comments to the list
... if needed, we can discuss this next week
... anything else on this topic?

[ No ]

URI Scheme spec: LC comment processing

AB: the LC comment period for the 8-Oct-2009 URI Scheme LC ( http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-widgets-uri-20091008/ ) ended on November 10. I believe there was only one comment. Robin, what's the plan for responding?

RB: yes, just the one comment from Larry Masinter
... I haven't yet responded to him but will do so

<scribe> ACTION: barstow create a Comment Tracking Doc for the 8-Oct-2009 Widget URI LC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-457 - Create a Comment Tracking Doc for the 8-Oct-2009 Widget URI LC [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19].

AB: after Robin replies to LM, please follow-up if you have additional comments

AOB

AB: I don't have anything for today. Does anyone have any AOB for today?

[ No ]

AB: meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: barstow create a Comment Tracking Doc for the 8-Oct-2009 Widget URI LC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: barstow determine the list of reviewers for TWI LC#2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: barstow schedule a Director's Call for P&C CR #2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: barstow submit a publication request for TWI LCWD #2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: marcos prepare TWI spec for LCWD #2 publication on Nov 24 with a comment period ending December 15 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html#action04]
 
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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Succeeded: s/media rul/media rule/
Found ScribeNick: ArtB
Found Scribe: Art
Present: Art Marcin Marcos Arve Robin David_Rogers
Regrets: Frederick David
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0631.html
Found Date: 12 Nov 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html
People with action items: barstow marcos

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