Weekly Forms WG Teleconference -- 04 Mar 2009

<nick> zqkim, who is here?

<ebruchez> I will be a few minutes late

oh no

i'm such a bad scribe

<John_Boyer> scribe: Uli

<John_Boyer> scribenick: unl

Steven: going to the AC meeting
... will be on a panel about XHTML and HTML
... of course XForms is included
... the day will be about a11y
... they are excited about XHTML/XForms

<John_Boyer> Thanks to DAISY consortium

Steven/John/Charlie: declarative approach much better than procedural

<John_Boyer> Accessibility needs provide strong requirements for more declarative constructs so it's easier to tell what's going on and presentit on alternate channel

<Steven> since procedural semantics are fundamentally intractable

<wiecha> accessibility can be layered on procedural languages via an API which winds up being an alternative form of "declarative" abstraction

<wiecha> so we should think about comparing APIs vs. markup

<wiecha> check out the backplane minutes from yesterday for a discussion of points we might raise during the AC meeting

<wiecha> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Mar/0002.html

XHTML and XForms schemas

Steven: need Leigh's help on RNC
... XHTML WG will merge XForms and XHTML schemas
... looking for attribute clashes
... e.g. RDFa has @resource

John: @encoding on xf:submission

Timezone issues

Steven: next 3 three weeks times are different
... for europeans

Forms Newsletter

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Feb/0094.html

John: some mistakes regarding tests
... will check

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Feb/0049.html

John: a number of failing submission tests are now implemented in ubiquity

<John_Boyer> no mistake on counting; misread "recommended" in submission section

<John_Boyer> submission is recommended, but if you implement, then certain features are *required* so we need two passing tests

<John_Boyer> and only have one for a number of tests

<nick> I've sent in a Chiba report last weekend, and it passes also quite some tests

<scribe> ACTION: john to send newsletter to www-forms [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

<nick> no

XForms 1.1 completion

<nick> 83%

John: Nick sent an impl report for Chiba

<nick> mainly Core Form Controls, and data types have much failurs

John: so we get more 2 passing tests per feature

<nick> yes

<nick> just give me an action

<scribe> ACTION: nick to put Chiba impl report into CVS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-517 - Put Chiba impl report into CVS [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-03-11].

John: we got permission from EMC to publish impl report

Nick: which email?

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2009Feb/0028.html

John: exclude chapter 11 and appendix B

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2009Mar/0000.html

<nick> http://www.agencexml.com/xforms-tests/testsuite/XForms1.1/Edition1/driverPages/html/

<scribe> ACTION: nick to put EMC impl report into CVS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-518 - Put EMC impl report into CVS [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-03-11].

Steven: can we exit CR?

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Feb/0049.html

John: once the other impl reports are in place we need an updated test suite triage
... MarkB sent regrets because he and his team is having a coding marathon on ubiquity

Steven: seems to work better and better in opera
... will be talking on MozCamp in NL
... will demonstrate ubiquity in mozilla

John: take care to preload all the js files
... you can pack all js files into one for deployment, loads magnitudes faster

Spec error on "at" attribute

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Mar/0000.html

John: already corrected it in my own spec copy
... @at in 1.0 is evaluated in context of @nodeset
... enables stuff like at="last()"
... in 1.1 it is described correctly in processing rules for insert, but not in overview

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#action-insert

<scribe> ACTION: jboyer to fix overview text of at attribute [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-519 - Fix overview text of at attribute [on John Boyer - due 2009-03-11].

<John_Boyer> Would like an action to say "... XPath expression evaluated using the Node Set Binding node-set ..." for at attribute of insert (synch with processing rules and delete)

Default for separator attribute

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Mar/0005.html

John: xf:submission has @separator for url-encoded submissions
... the default is semicolon instead of ampersand
... which seems wrong

<nick> chiba does

Erik: any reason why we just can't change it?

Charlie: no strong opinion

Erik: everybody who's implementing semicolon as default now has to specify ampersand so probably nothing would break
... furthermore with ampersand as default we could remove @separator in many forms

Nick: no strong feelings either

<wiecha> i think my code using shindig does use them

Charlie/Uli: semicolon still useful for REST services

Steven: the forms that assume semicolon as default will break
... we changed it because some specs say that semicolon will be the default in the web in future

John: but ampersand still rules the web...

Steven: considering that noone adopted semicolon its ok

<Steven_> B.2.2 Ampersands in URI attribute values

<Steven_> The URI that is constructed when a form is submitted may be used as an anchor-style link (e.g., the href attribute for the A element). Unfortunately, the use of the "&" character to separate form fields interacts with its use in SGML attribute values to delimit character entity references. For example, to use the URI "http://host/?x=1&y=2" as a linking URI, it must be written <A href="http://host/?x=1&y=2"> or <A href="http://host/?x=1&y=2">.

<Steven_> We recommend that HTTP server implementors, and in particular, CGI implementors support the use of ";" in place of "&" to save authors the trouble of escaping "&" characters in this manner.

RESOLUTION: keep @separator, but change default to ampersand

<Steven_> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/appendix/notes.html#ampersands-in-uris

John: outstanding action items?

Erik: got CVS access, will work on action items

<nick> I did Action 2009-02-25.6 and Action 2009-02-18.3

nick, i did http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-forms-minutes.html#action02

<nick> need to put your version of 11 2 g.xhtml in the cvs

<nick> but don't have an action item of that

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Mar/0001.html

John: what about 1.11.p?

Test case 1.11.p

John: its about @standalone on xf:submission

Nick: you have to omit @standalone to have it excluded from submitted data

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit-submission-element

Nick: @standalone="false" will yield a @standalone="no" in your XML decl

John: fixing the test means it should have a trigger or submission

Nick: that's what i've done

<John_Boyer> a third trigger

<scribe> ACTION: nick to fix test 1.11.p [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-520 - Fix test 11.1.p [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-03-11].

<nick> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Mar/0001.html

<nick> add a third submission so we test the three possibilities

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Feb/0078.html

Issues with test 11.11.2.a

Erik: problem with content type for SOAP messages

<ebruchez> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Feb/0081.html

Erik: it's a SOAP version issue

<ebruchez> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Feb/0077.html

Erik: so in 11.11.2 a is no problem
... but in 11.1.1 a is
... it has a "root" element around the SOAP envelope

<nick> chiba has the extra root element too

<nick> yes

John: seems the @ref on submission is wrong
... would include the "root" element to be sent

Charlie: ...

<scribe> ACTION: ebruchez to fix test 11.1.1 a (fix @ref and and add @mediatype) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-521 - Fix test 11.1.1 a (fix @ref and and add @mediatype) [on Erik Bruchez - due 2009-03-11].

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2009Feb/0025.html

Issue with Appendix B 14.a Move Attribute

Erik: exchange @nodeset with @context

<nick> bye

<scribe> ACTION: ebruchez to fix test B 14 a (use @context instead of @nodeset) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-522 - Fix test B 14 a (use @context instead of @nodeset) [on Erik Bruchez - due 2009-03-11].

- DRAFT -

Weekly Forms WG Teleconference

04 Mar 2009

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