W3C

- DRAFT -

Widgets Voice Conference

22 Jan 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Art, Mark, Marcos, Jere, David, Bryan, Claudio, Arve, Josh, Andy, Benoit
Regrets
Frederick, Thomas
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art

Contents


 

Date: 22 January 2009

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

Review and tweak agenda

AB: want to add Boris' comments on P&C LC
... Any objections to that addition?

[None]

AB: I gave Frederick and Thomas a headsup that we are not likely to get to DigSig to focus on P&C LC
... any other change requests?

[None]

Annoucements

AB: Jan 31 is the deadline for P&C LC comments

MC: I will change affiliations on Feb 15, working for Opera

AB: good luck in your PhD defense next week, Marcos
... any other annoucements?

[None]

P&C LCWD comments from Boris

AB: MC's reply to Boris is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0161.html
... do we have any major issues or show stoppers, Marcos?

MC: not really
... but one reoccuring theme re file to mime type mapping
... I added a new rule for whitespace handling
... I wrote a whitespace normalization

<marcos> ...and remove whitespace removal rules

AB: is that it for Boris' comments on this VC?

MC: yes; I will do some more followup

P&C LCWD Comments from Benoit

AB: Benoit's comments <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0145.html>
... Mostly non-contentious; comment about window mode we will discuss later when we cover Mark's comments
... Marcos' proposes we drop plugin attribute (of <access> element); any comments on that proposal?
... see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0163.html

MC: I think it is to ambigous re what the plugin is
... for example there could be natively installed plugins
... I think it should be left as an impl detail

Arve: I'm not so sure
... the problem isn't really with plugins themselves
... the problem is 3rd party code running within the widget and security implications thereof
... But given we don't have a well-defined security model, this could be considered a moot point
... I do agree that plugin attribute may not be the appropriate word

MC: in a web browser, a plugin will run if it is installed; otherwise it won't

JS: just because Flahs is installed, doesn't mean it will run because it could be dis-abled
... So the simple solution given no sec model, is indeed that we don't specify plugin

BS: want to know if an additional player is needed
... e.g. audio player

Arve: one thing to consider is the API e.g. a feature requirement

AB: I propose we stop discussion now and follow-up on the mail list
... any objections?

<timeless> no

Arve: no, seems reasonable

AB: are there other parts of Benoit's comments we want to discuss now?

BS: most of my comments were Editorial except for the modes stuff
... Default size is another issue we need to discuss

MC: we need to think in terms of CSS pixels i.e. they scale

BS: I will submit a proposal to the list
... I still need to check a few of Marcos' followups

P&C LCWD Comments from Mark

AB: some of Mark's comments apply to API & Events spec:
... <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0144.html>
... There has already been some follow-up discussions on public-webapps by Arve
... propose we start with Window Modes
... LC identifies 4 window modes: application, floating, fullscreen, docked
... But clearly states this feature is at risk

BS: I proposed some wording changes i.e. their meaning
... in some case size is relevant

Arve: there are other facets to consider e.g. can the widget be dragged
... others are can it occupy full screen

MP: there is a diff between floating and big/small

BS: Dashboard default is floating
... but Vista default is different
... want the developer to decide

<arve> Opera's internal definition of 'floating' (Named widget: widget: The widget is typically rendered without user chrome, and the widget is assumed to have control over its own window size.)

MP: we need to define behavior too

<arve> And 'application': application: The widget is assumed to be rendered in a viewport size determined by the widget engine, optionally using the initial rendering dimensions specified in config.xml as a suggestion. Further, where applicable, the widget engine should also render application chrome. A widget implementation may render several widgets onscreen in this mode.

AB: Marcos, what are the relevant requirements here?

MC: I don't think we have any

AB: perhaps that's why we keep talking past each other
... I think we need clear reqs before we try to specify something
... is anyone willing to take an Action to create requirements?

MP: I'm willing to do that

<scribe> ACTION: Mark create an input regarding Window Mode requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-291 - Create an input regarding Window Mode requirements [on Mark Priestley - due 2009-01-29].

MP: this is real important and I'd like to get it resolved ASAP

AB: any volunteers to help?

BS: me

MC: me too

Arve: l would like these req discussions to take place on the mail list
... we have some impl experience that are relevant so I want to contribute

MP: we will base the reqs on our work
... we will be happy to take suggestions for improvements

AB: I second Arve's proposal to do these discussions on public-webapps
... Mark, any other comments besides window modes?

MP: most of our comments were about window mode including related APIs

Arve: the CSS extensions are a different topic
... I think CSS WG may have some issues with the proposal

AB: what are the specific concerns?

Arve: a concern is that we will specify CSS behavior
... docking mode in particular

AB: if we need to directly engage with CSS WG, Mike or I can make that happen
... it may be a bit premature given we need to think about this from the reqs level first

CV: we don't want to overlap CSS work

Arve: I meant we don't want to specify something around Media Queries
... It's more like a philosophical concern re us being consistent with CSS' specs

AB: if we indeed specify any CSS related stuff, we indeed must work with the CSS WG

Arve: after we agree on reqs, and then do the spec work, we'll know if we need to work with CSS WG

AB: agree

MP: we will submit other comments

API and Events spec: getting to FPWD:

AB: ED is <http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/>

<arve> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/

AB: Arve, what is the status of your January 15 action "it appears I have not checked in agreed changes from Mandelieu. I will check in all changes before our next Voice Conf".

Arve: that should be done now
... we still need a definition for Widget Context
... still have some Red Blocks

AB: I think we need some text in Section 1.
... is 1.1 boilerplate?

MC: yes

<scribe> ACTION: Marcos write an introduction for section 1. of the API and Events spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-292 - Write an introduction for section 1. of the API and Events spec [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-01-29].

AB: what do we need to do to publish FPWD?
... after Marcos supplies text for 1.0, are you ready to publish it?

Arve: yes

MC: I will try to complete that by early next week

AB: any other comments on FPWD?

JK: comment on section 4; needs some formatting work

Arve: oh, you're right; I'll fix that

<arve> "When the view state of the widget changes, the widgetmodechange event is dispatched on the Widget object. It must not bubble, must not be cancelable and must implement the Event interface [DOM3Events]. The event has no namespace (Event.namespaceURI is null"

AB: we could start a 1-week CfC

JS: I will submit comments

AB: a FPWD can be pretty raw i.e. published knowing there are lots of open issues
... please review the latest ED and be ready on Jan 29 to vote Yes or No for a FPWD

Add tag: scheme to our list of schemes that do not meet our requirements.

AB: scheme document is <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/att-0299/TPAC_URISchemes.pdf>
... I propose we add tag: scheme to the document Marcos created last October

MC: I can do that but the interesting discussions will occur on the ML

AB: I think consolidating the rationale will be useful

MC: agree, assign me a action

<scribe> ACTION: Marcos add the tag: scheme to the scheme pros and cons document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-293 - Add the tag: scheme to the scheme pros and cons document [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-01-29].

MC: I can create a PDF is that's what people want

Arve: yes, please do

<arve> (Or even an HTML presentation, using media="projection" .... )

AB: any other comments about tag:

<arve> :)

JS: it seems like it may actually work

AB: please take a look at it Josh and submit comments

MC: one potential issue is I18N related issues but they may be resolvable

JK: like what Marcos?

MC: IRI support may be problematic
... Tim from HP raised a related issue

JK: I'll read up on it

AB: everyone, please do followup on the mail list

AOB

AB: any other business to discuss?

BS: I wasn't able to upload the f2f data file

MC: a hotel recommenation file would be helpful

BS: that's what I've done but dont' have the right perms to upload it to the wiki

AB: I'll resolve this issue
... Meeting Adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Marcos add the tag: scheme to the scheme pros and cons document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Marcos write an introduction for section 1. of the API and Events spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Mark create an input regarding Window Mode requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2009/01/22 16:02:47 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/displayed/dis-abled/
Found ScribeNick: ArtB
Found Scribe: Art
Present: Art Mark Marcos Jere David Bryan Claudio Arve Josh Andy Benoit
Regrets: Frederick Thomas
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0150.html
Found Date: 22 Jan 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html
People with action items: marcos mark

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