See also: IRC log
<vipul> Zakim aabb is Rachel
<vipul> Zakim ??P38 is Helen
holger_stenzhorn: 3 telecons so
far
... been co-developing this ontology in another project
... will develop the examples on the slides
... should have something posted on the wiki in two weeks
Bosse: kersten and i will follow same approach for the 2nd patient
Bosse: i think alan has posted the (ontology?) on the wiki
<vipul> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/rough-discussion-realist-view
holger: this ontology is being
developed at the EU Advanced Clinical Genomic Trial
... targeted at urinary tract cancer
... been in dev for 1.5-2 years
... propose Bosse et al to look at this ontology
<holger_stenzhorn> www.ifomis.org/wiki/ACGT
<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask what the comparitive investment is
holger_stenzhorn: one of the
developers in Christian X
... he has been talking with kersten et al
... so there is overlap
... is not developed in a collaborative environment
... we don't know if we *can* develop it
vipul: we haven't chosen an
ontology
... none of them have been used in the real world
... we want to see if they work for our use cases
... there are standards out there already: RIM, LTTM
... if we go to the trials folks, we'll be more appealing if it
aligns with SDTM
<Helen> +q
holger_stenzhorn: we worked with
clinical and biomedical experts
... we extracted the relations with them
... also looked at medra
... trying to fulfill the needs of clinician
vipul: there are two kinds of
clinical users:
... .. the folks doing the trials
... .. the docs doing healthcare
... tricky getting these two communities together
Helen: if we put lots of effort into this ont, will i be able to re-use it in X scenarios?
vipul: we target patient
recruitment and EMR
... we first need to show something working in this scope
... these are two very different use cases
... if we take up adverse drug detection, we may find that it
already works, or that we need to modify it
Helen: so we will examine the 10 use cases and try to use HL7 properties
vipul: while we dev this
ontology, we want to keep compatibility between EMR and
clinical trials
... you are right, there is always the danger that we will
develop artifacts that are use-case-specific
... this ontology will try to model:
... .. book-keeping
... .. clinical trial eligability
... .. patient data
holger_stenzhorn: we have been
developing this ont by the clinical trial needs
... we have done extensive studies in cancer research
... have tried to model this from the clinician and the
publication side
... want to use the data to manage patients (EDT), but also to
model cancer (tumor size, position)
<vipul> CRF, CDASH, NCI Thesaurus
holger_stenzhorn: are clinical
partners (CDISC most prominently)
... we are modeling that (CDISC) data in our ontology
... our project partners have created facilities to represent
our instance data to CDISC
vipul: Rachel and Jennifer (NIHS) are modeling this data in STDM
<vipul> COI = Clinical Observations Interoperability
holger_stenzhorn: Cristian is already working with Jennifer
<holger_stenzhorn> Cristian Cocos
<scribe> ACTION: holger to invite Cristian Cocos to present at one of these telecons [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
vipul: ultimately we want to map this to other types of data
<holger_stenzhorn> ACGT
<scribe> ACTION: holger to get more info on mappins from ACGT to CDISC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html#action02]
Helen: how much to you rely on reasoning?
<holger_stenzhorn> www.eu-acgt.org
Helen: can i enter a patient data and search on some clasification (such as eligibility for a clinical trial)
<vipul> http://www.ifomis.org/acgt/1.0
holger_stenzhorn: this sort of thing is in the project description
<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to note that re-use when possible makes semweb work and to offer to help set up Cristian's presentation
holger_stenzhorn: weill see
Christian next week
... expect to next join COI call in two weeks
<holger_stenzhorn> aaah ;-)
-> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DCMRDFPatient1.ppt modeled Intermounted Healthcare data
[slide 4]
Helen: is DizzinessAssert a new class in the dcm namespace?
vipul: dcm as a set of types,
e.g. Assertion
... they have internal IDs for the codes, but they may them to
external standards
... the prob is that SNOMED codes get changed
Rachel: the codes should always be there. they just indicate that it's retired
Helen: if we link to SNOMED, we can always add another arc as new models emerge
vipul: you may retire one code and replace it with several
[... scribe got too involved to scribe effectively]
scribe: they have used this model
for change mapping
... but change mapping is outside our scope
[slide 5]
vipul: LOINC has size axise (pl SP?)
-> http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/49/4/624/T2 LOINC major axes
[slide 6]
vipul: they have alligned with
HL7, as well as termsets like LOINC
... DCM has a specialized model which i have expressed as
RDF
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Christian/Cristian/ Succeeded: s/join/next join COI call/ No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: ericP Inferring Scribes: ericP Default Present: EricP, Vipul_Kashyap, Don_Doherty, +46.4.63.3.aaaa, Bosse, Holger, Jyotir, Rachel, Helen Present: EricP Vipul_Kashyap Don_Doherty +46.4.63.3.aaaa Bosse Holger Jyotir Rachel Helen WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 19 Feb 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html People with action items: holger[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]