RDFa Task Force

Manu: I'm in Blacksburg Virginia, at Virginia Tech

Ben: I've invited Manu to join today as a guest

Action Items

ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [CONTINUES]

Mark: my implementation is a javascript library
... at the moment this is running inside an Internet Explorer sidebar
... the library is cross-browser, however
... I do plan to make this open source
... I didn't use Ben's bookmarklet library because I wanted to reuse work I'd done years ago on an RDF parser
... I want to trigger arbitrary things on finding a triple
... I did start with Ben's code
... I have xml:lang support already

Ben: I don't yet support xml:lang
... there are side issues, such as agendum 6
... regarding XMLLiterals
... I chatted with Elias last week
... He's been following the mail and has been working with Mike Kaply on the FireFox Operator support

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: [WITHDRAWN] Michael to create best practices wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

Ralph: Michael's best practices action had to do with URIs in @href and @resource. Did we really withdraw this?

Mark: I think we did decide to withdraw this
... Michael had suggested some 'MUST' language to authors in the spec
... we decided we couldn't add that
... but we also discussed whether there couldn't be some advice, say, in the Primer
... using @resource='isbn...' is a simple case

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr [and Fabien] and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [CONTINUES]

Ben: I've done some, still need to contact Fabien and others

ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [CONTINUES]

Ben: I've updated the Primer but might not have completed this action

ACTION: [DONE] Michael to add a test case for @src [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

Test Cases

-> Test 34

<benadida> <img about="http://sw-app.org/mic.xhtml#i" rel="foaf:image" src="http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg" alt="A photo depicting Michael" />

Steven: is foaf:image the right spelling?

Ben: nope, foaf:Image is the class, foaf:img is the predicate

Steven: is foaf:depicts not preferred?

<Steven> http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/

RESOLUTION: test 34 approved, contingent on fixing the predicate to foaf:img

Steven: [reads from -> foaf:img definition ]

<Steven> "Unlike the more general foaf:depiction property (and its inverse, foaf:depicts), the foaf:img property is only used with representations of people (ie. instances of foaf:Person)."

Mark: foaf:depiction can point to pictures that include other things; foaf:img is like a preferred image of [one] person
... it's a shame that @alt isn't being used for rdfs:label but that's another issue

-> Test 35

<benadida> <img about="http://sw-app.org/mic.xhtml#i" rel="foaf:image" src="http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2007_01.jpg" href="http://sw-app.org/img/mic_2006_03.jpg" alt="A photo depicting Michael" />

Ben: test 35 shows @href overriding @src

Mark: test 35 is correct but looking at the markup it seems counterintuitive why @href is overriding

Steven: there are cases in the future where you'll want both @src and @href on the same element

Ben: the @href might be a bigger picture, for example
... in that case, the author probably does want the relationship to be with the bigger picture and not the thumbnail

Steven: yes, that's the expected answer for that use case. But if clicking on the link took you to a home page ...

Ben: so that's a good example to use @resource to override @href

Steven: the question is how to interpret the @rel

Ben: if the author has an image that links back to a home page, will they use @rel?

Steven: yes, if the @rel is homepage

Ralph: my intuition is that <img @href> will be used when the image is an iconic representation of the @href target,
... in that case the natural object is the @href target

Ben: I can see markup specifically written to defeat our approach
... but it seems unlikely that the default markup will want a different interpretation

RESOLUTION: test 35 accepted, correcting foaf:image to foaf:img

-> Test 36

Steven: we should add another test using all 3 in combination

Mark: and one without @rel
... but how do we write a SPARQL query that shows no triple?

RESOLUTION: test 36 accepted, correcting foaf:image to foaf:img

Manu: do we need the DIV? are we trying to keep the tests minimal?
... not a problem but might be confusing

Shane: the DIV is needed for the content model; IMG not allowed in BODY

ACTION: Ralph ask Eric Prud'hommeaux if there's a clever way to write a variant of tests 34-36 without @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: Ben ask Michael to write versions of tests 34-36 including all of @src, @href, and @resource [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

Steven: I propose also duplicating these tests with @rev in place of @rel

ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 with @rev in place of @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

ACTION: Ben ask Michael to duplicate tests 34-36 omitting @about [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

Report on SWD WG telecon

Ben: I gave a Task Force report to the SWD Working Group this past Tuesday
... the chairs are a bit worried about our status, partly because we haven't reported a lot
... I reminded them that we do have test cases
... the SWD Working Group still has an open question whether the RDFa spec is REC track
... I had an action to make sure the XHTML2 WG is going to review our specification

Steven: you mean additional reviews from non-Task Force members? sure

Ben: we have two reviewers for the syntax document from the SWD WG
... I'll try to do a better job of publicizing the progress we've made

<ShaneM> Note that the separate document xhtml-rdfa will also have test cases - this is an independent activity that has to do with modules etc.

Ben: the quality of the document we present to the SWD WG in mid-September will be a factor in them deciding whether RDFa spec is REC track

Ralph: the REC Track question in SWD is largely a procedural question
... it came up at the WG face-to-face in January
... at that time the only public WD for RDFa syntax was part of the XHTML2 WD
... and the XHTML2 charter was still open for discussion
... so in January the SWD WG was concerned that there might not be a document done in time
... the WG opened an issue on "RDFa to Rec track?" and it's never closed that issue
... if we deliver the Syntax document in September the issue should be easily closed

Status of Documents

Steven: I'm working on the basic structure [of @@], need to add some examples

Shane: Mark is working on the rules section
... and I've put in the CURIE syntax into the current editor's draft
... we'll keep the public URI updated as we commit changes. It's not yet updating automatically

Steven: my goal is to complete the gross changes by tomorrow

Shane: I've done most of what I'd planned except for the references section, which I hope to do by tomorrow

Mark: I hope to have the rules section by tomorrow

Ben: can we have a draft by Monday for TF review?

Mark: I doubt we'll have the changes integrated by the end of Friday

-> Syntax editor's draft

ACTION: Shane send email to the TF list when the editor's draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

Shane: the editor's drafts cited above will be diff-marked

Ben: I've committed a new editors' draft of the primer
... all the markup has been updated to the current design
... I need to add some @rev examples
... I will commit a review version by Tuesday

ACTION: Ben send mail to the TF list when the Primer editors' draft is ready for the TF to read [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

Manu: I skimmed the Primer a month ago
... many of the examples were high-level and seemed to focus mostly on FOAF
... my biggest problem with the Primer was that it gave an overview but didn't motivate people why they should use RDFa
... you might want examples of other content, not just People
... e.g. the Microformats community needs to show that there are other things you can mark up than Events and People

<ShaneM> If you are going to add useful examples, some sort of RSS annotation tie in would be good!

Ben: yeah, making a Web page be its own RSS feed is an example I've wanted to write

Manu: a 'choose your own adventure' sort of thing, with multiple paths, works well
... e.g. a photo thread, a music thread, ...
... but it's also dangerous to put all this in a single document
... so perhaps links from the Primer to other use cases

Ben: I'd love to see case studies

Manu: we're working on a music recommendation engine that will use RDFa
... linking hAudio files to a page citing an artist
... I'll be happy to contribute this in the form of an extended example

Ben: in next week's call I'll want us to be discussing specific changes in the draft documents

[adjourned]