Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference

18 Jul 2007


See also: IRC log



Roland_, Steven, +, Tina, Gregory_Rosmiata, yamx
Shane, Rich, Alessio, Mark
Roland, Steven
Gregory J. Rosmaita




<Steven> Previous

<yamx> We OMA are very pleased to see XHTMLBasic 1.1 CR status.

SP: XHTML Basic 1.1 Is a Candidate Recommendation!!!
... asked when exit CR? - end of august begining of october
... Draft schedule for November meeting (TPAC) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0027
... not on monday and tuesday, but other end of the weeek; tech plenary tries to get as many WGs together in one place at one time; get to work out issues, get to make new liaisons, etc.
... wednesday a plenary day - mini-conference
... thursday and friday rest of groups meet; going to be an AC (advisory committee) meeting as well -- new, so made half day AC meeting on thursday, so groups can meet thursday afternoon, friday (all day) and saturday morning
... still have to decide if want to use saturday morning - depends on agenda - by then, anticipate quite a big agenda
... we are meeting at same time as HTML working group; don't know if can meet up with them, but we shall see

Coming calls http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0004

SP: propose we skip a week due to lack of chair or chair pro tem

no objections

SP: skip a week -- in 2 weeks roland will chair (roland available until end of august)
... Next Face2Face: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0005
... now have exact times, locations, etc.

AGENDA ITEM 1: Reply to Schema Working Group

SP: has anyone looked at comments and reply? if have comments, please bring them to the fore ASAP
... general schema principles -- marked 2 places with @@ were wasn't sure were finished

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0011

Reply to comments on XHTML Modularization 1.1 from XML Schema WG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0011

AGENDA ITEM 2: analysis for hypertext CG comparision between basic 1.0 to 1.1; added print and XHTML Basic 1.1; XHTML 1.1 is the superset of all, except for inputmode which is now part of basic 1.1 should we add it to next release of XHTML 1.1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0016

SP: due to come out when modularization comes out of CR; window of opportunity; parent language of sub-set languages
... objections? entirely optional -- only a hint to the processor, but for mobile versions of XHTML good feature to have -- already in XHTML2 due to XForms

<scribe> ACTION: Shane - add input mode to XHTML 1.1 second edition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

SP: shane not here (sent regrets) -- can discuss but not decide until shane here
... XHMTL2 WG has task force (meets once a week on thursday evenings) working on RDFa -- allows one to define more semantics for elements; similar to microformats, but much more disciplined; generates RDF triples; modularization doesn't define base -- need to discuss
... shane's Q: should we accomodate base or incorporate into 1.1?
... other question: what should we do relative to base elements, if they disagree with one another

scribe's note: base = XML Base

SP: history: going to need facility like base in HTML, so XML Base produced; made last call for XLink; should be defining meaning of XML Base
... ought to do it for future versions of language, not past versions; right now no one doing it; should we add to XHTML 1.1 or state that future versions of XHTML will build on it
... allowable on any element; specifies the effect - how to interpret relative URIs for all children of element

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/

??: could we not use that to override what is in base; equivalent of base

SP: good approach -- on HTML (applies to head and body elements)
... rules specified except for what they do if on HTML element and a BASE in head which is different
... what do we think should happen

???: XML Base as fragment

SP: Base for legacy / backwards compatibility, but otherwise overridden by XML Base

???: could be interpreted afterwards, XML Base a refinement; if no XML Base, use what is in HTML instance's head

SP: another approach with legacy - when tranistioning from name att to id att on A - if have name, must have id and must have same value; could require if use BASE elements, that you use XML Base in the head set to the same value
... if we say the MUST be the same, result is fine

??: alternative, i agree

SP: don't say what happens with name and id, just there for backwards compatibility; if say one has priority over the other, wouldn't work in legacy browsers; so, just don't do it
... should we only put stuff in future versions, or revise past versions -- adding to another version of XHTML 1.1

??: [couldn't hear, muffled]

SP: if say have to define base and xml base so that cooperate, don't see why shouldn't put into a 1.1 version
... no resolution -- needs more discussion on list, especially from shane, who proposed it

agenda item 4: Caption positioning & binding example using WAI-ARIA markup http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0012

SP: RDF task force developing native RDFa -- working on getting more widely accepted
... in a sense, can ignore attributes and page still has meaning it still had; non-assistive browser can ignore
... HTML has rule to ignore attributes don't know about; if get added no problem really for HTML; RDFa able to define triples -- relationships and states -- about attribute proxy that tells relationship; sounds like RDFa is coming up with similar mechanism
... heads-up to RDFa task force that WAI has set of requirements that could be met by RDFa -- simple semantics; links in with role attribute

<Steven> public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org

<scribe> ACTION: GJR to explain what WAI ARIA attempting to achieve and crossover with RDFa let task force know via public-rdfa-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

TOPIC 3: agenda item 5: Using script to implement namespaces http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0009

SP: people producing javascript libraries that implement a particular ML; if have nested XForms in XHTML doc add script to implement XForms in a standard browser; great way to get namespaces integrated into legacy browsers
... don't want UAs that understand namespaces to use script; propose attribute for script that tells UA that only reason this script is here is that it is implementing a specific function; legacy UA will call javascript to call namespace into browser; new UAs will ignor
... comments?
... good way to get out of CR -- implement parts of XHTML2 in any browser with assistance of script

??3: How elegant will it be?

SP: future-proofing browsers

Roland: seemed reasonable when read it; part of package of things we have to query whether UA supports particular namespace


<Tina> (My connection is poorly - again)

Roland: if get into this area, are there similar things to talk about

SP: have selectors for media types derived from CSS; turned off if current media not matched; turns off element if that namespace is implemented
... similar to media queries for stylesheets
... put it in queue -- see what response we get
... clarification: media queries for any media -- paragraph media=print so only used in printed

agenda item 6: Testing XHTML Basic 1.1

SP: getting XHTML 1.1 out of CR; only thing not tested is target and inputmode; how should we go about getting tests into oma test suite

testing mobile 1.2 -- current testers will have inputmode tagged so can use in mobile 1.0 and 1.2 -- inputmode tagged can reuse?

SP: are optional -- ignored for other versions in test suite

think will satisfy 1.1 test requirements

SP: want volunteer to construct test materials for what is not currenlty being tested

tests actually in test suite, just not invoked if not germane

SP: possible to get copy of tests?

OMA provides URI for test site, test site includes materials for inputmode

SP: please resend URI to public-xhtml2

<scribe> ACTION: Jan resend URI of OMA test suite to public-xhtml2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]

SP: should we use namespace name or prefix? ended up writing prefix because if no default, needs to be there -- author friendlier;

Roland: cut-and-paste this script into it and it will work

SP: cut-and-paste bug-bear for those who fear namespaces
... other issues?
... away for 3 weeks, be back on call in 4 weeks time
... don't forget about Face2face

<scribe> ScribeNick: oedipus

<scribe> Scribe: Gregory J. Rosmaita

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: GJR to explain what WAI ARIA attempting to achieve and crossover with RDFa let task force know via public-rdfa-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jan resend URI of OMA test suite to public-xhtml2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Shane - add input mode to XHTML 1.1 second edition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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Found ScribeNick: oedipus
Found Scribe: Gregory J. Rosmaita
Default Present: Roland_, Steven, +, Tina, Gregory_Rosmiata, yamx
Present: Roland_ Steven + Tina Gregory_Rosmiata yamx
Regrets: Shane Rich Alessio Mark
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0030
Got date from IRC log name: 18 Jul 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html
People with action items: - add gjr input jan mode of oma resend shane suite test uri

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