W3C

WS Policy WG
7 Feb 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
06Charlton_Barreto, Sergey_Beryozkin, maryann, Mark_Temple-Raston, William_Henry, Felix, Frederick_Hirsch, Chris_Ferris, asir, Fabian, Tom_Rutt, Mark_Little, m2, 01_06Paul_Cotton, Prasad_Yendluri01, Sanka, Glen, Arnaud, Abbie, Symon, Umit, Dale
Regrets
Daniel, Roth
Chair
Chris
Scribe
SergeyB

Contents


 

 

<scribe> scribe: SergeyB

<scribe> scribeNick: SergeyB

<cferris> scribe: SergeyB

Agenda - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Feb/0027.html

<monica> good morning

<cferris> morning

<cferris> or afternoon as the case may be

<cferris> or evening

<cferris> or late night (hi felix)

<fsasaki> hi :)

<monica> good 'day'

<whenry> asir, is Dan going to join

<cferris> charlton to scribe next week

Review and approval of f2f and telcon minutes

<cferris> RESOLUTION: http://www.w3.org/2007/01/31-ws-policy-minutes.html approved

Chris: Last weeks' minutes are approved

<cferris> Draft minutes (member only):

<cferris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-policy/2007Jan/0014.html

<cferris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-policy/2007Jan/0015.html

<cferris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-policy/2007Jan/0017.html

<cferris> RESOLUTION: Minutes from f2f as above approved

future meetings

<scribe> Chair: Felix put the details on the admin page

<PaulC> http://www.w3.org/2007/05/ws-policy-f2f-logistics.html is now live.

s/out/put/

Editorial team report

Prasad: we received no comments so far

Chris: we'll cover it in today's 7.c

<asir> Prasad, Chris is referring to 4306 & 4307

Review action items

Asir: Action-183 should be marked as completed

<monica> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Feb/0006.html

Chris: Action-189 is pending, details are welcomed as early as possible

Maryann: Action 192 is done

<FHirsch> 196 should be closed http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Jan/0215.html

Frederick: Action-196 should be closed

Monica: Action 193 can be closed

<monica> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Feb/0013.html

Asir: shouild we open a new issue so it can be tracked better ?

William: Action 201 is about two diff issues
... will talk with Dan Roth

Chris: lets close Action 202

Issue 4301 is done (see 9c in the agenda)

<abbie> +abbie

Chris: need one more week for Action204

Glen: Action 209 is done

Action 210 is done by Felix

Prasad: will send the updates on Action-211 later this week

MarkTR: Action-212 is done

Maryann: Action215 is closed

Umit: had no chance to deal with Action-216

<prasad> I just forwarded Skip's note reg. scenario 42 to the public list

<cferris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-policy/2007Feb/0005.html

Paul: WSDL Working group change their WSDLBinding doc and would like to align it with the WS-Policy framework spec

Maryann: will review the doc, probably in about two weeks

<scribe> ACTION: Maryann, Asir and Umit to review the changed WSDLBinding document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Maryann,

<cferris> ACTION: Maryann to work with Asir and Umit to review the changed WSDLBinding document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-219 - Work with Asir and Umit to review the changed WS-A Metadata document [on Maryann Hondo - due 2007-02-14].

Exiting Last Call

Chris: CR drafts should be reviewed

<maryann> isn't the due date the 21st?

Felix: ws-policy media type should be changed
... need to follow the registration procedure

<cferris> RESOLUTION: 4307 closed with the proposal from felix in the issue itself

<fsasaki> related editors AI is http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicyeds/actions/open

<fsasaki> s/open/open/156/

Chris: Item 4306 is about updating the namespace document
... lets do a 2-step change
... deprecate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/ws-policy/

is a first step

Chris: http://www.w3.org/ns/ws-policy is the new one

<Zakim> asir, you wanted to offer support and ask a question

Asir: +1
... This namespace doc is similar to the one in the attachment and framework docs, that one needs to be updated too

Paul: change all the replicated data

Umit: what about items at risk ?

Paul: it's possible that at-risk features can be dropped which will mean they can be moved into a seperate document, as one possible option

Chris: we agreed to use new namespace at the last f2f

<umit> +1 to Glen

Glen: new namespace might cause some incompatibilty issues now

Paul: in the worst-case scenario this new ns will be lost if we're to move back to the working draft ns

Glen: we should discuss at-risk issues first before making a decision on CR

Paul: this a seperate issue

Chris: at-risk features motivate us to try to make sure they don't get removed

<PaulC> framework 2.3 and attachment section 2.2. need to be changed as well.

<PaulC> Change the old document to state it is depcrecated to point to the new one.

<PaulC> Change the new ns namespace document with the proposed text.

<cferris> RESOLUTION: Issue 4306 resolved with the proposal in issue 4306 as amended above

Monica: as soon as CR is published, primer and guidelines need to be aligned

<cferris> ACTION: Chris to work with Felix and Paul to ensure that the namespace document is updated accordingly when we publish the CR drafts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-220 - Work with Felix and Paul to ensure that the namespace document is updated accordingly when we publish the CR drafts [on Christopher Ferris - due 2007-02-14].

<cferris> RESOLUTION: WG agrees unanimously to request transition to CR for the WS-Policy 1.5 Framework and Attachment specifications as amended above

<asir> Congrats everyone!!!

<fsasaki> congrats as well :)

<whenry> Congrats

Prasad: what is the process for incorporating resolutions for issues 4306 and 4307 and producing the updated CR drafts ?

Chris: we've scheduled a CR review for 21st of February
... we have to close all the editorial actions no later than 13th of Feb, before sending a transitional email

WS-Policy Call for Implementations

Chris: we need a list of implementers

<cferris> paul: we need a diff from the previous public WD

<asir> Microsoft will participate in CR interop testing

<maryann> IBM will participate in the CR interop

Paul: we need a report with a list of companies expecting to take part in the interop testing

<prasad> we did not know this question would be asked today :)

Chris: can we get more than 2 companies ?

<prasad> I expect webM but, I cannot confirm today

<dmoberg> Axway is discussing it but I am looking for resource

Chris, Paul : no need for a product announcement, just an imlementation will do

<whenry> I will check with IONA but cannot confirm today.

<sanka> WSO2 is expecting to participate in the Interop ..

<Symon> BEA is maybe for Interop

<PaulC> Summary: IBM, MSFT and WS02 for sure

<asir> Toufic is absent too

<PaulC> Maybe's include: Webmethods, Axway, Iona

<PaulC> Members absent: BEA, Layer7, Oracle

<Symon> BEA is maybe

Umit: what is a target for the interop event ?

<PaulC> Maybe's include: Webmethods, Axway, Iona, BEA

<PaulC> Members absent: Layer7, Oracle

Chris: hope at least 7 companies will participate

<PaulC> Other members: SAP, Fujitsu, Adobe, Nortel, Sun

Chris: CR period will cover the next at least two f2f meetings

<PaulC> Other members: SAP, Fujitsu, Adobe, Nortel, Sun, Sonic

Chris: no pressure

<cferris> rrsaget, where am i?

Chris: we'll highligh the fact we had 7 participants at the last event

<cferris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Feb/0022.html

Asir: we have to show each feature in the framework and attachments drafts have been implemented
... For successful CR I propose to mark 3 features being at risk
... ignorable assertions, external policy attachments, attaching policies using uddi

Umit: the outcome of the interop will determine the real progress with these features
... see no rule for determining the fate of features at risk

Chris: features at risk is a motivating factor for those keen on keeping that feature
... test scenarious are not complete
... more tests will be welcomed
... rule for exit is demonstrating an interop for two or more of such features at risk
... it's up to us really

Glen: respectfully disagrees features at risk is a motivating factor

<TRutt_> +1 to glen

Glen: would not be glad to see ignorable assertions being marked as a feature at risk given the amount of time/effort spent

<umit> +1 to Prasad and Glen

Prasad: in UDDI client and server implementations can come from diff vendors

Chris: features at risk won't necessarily mean they'll be removed, it allows the WG make progress

<GlenD> another way to put what Chris just said is that if you do NOT mark a feature "at risk", then you as a group believe that feature is in fact core to the specification, and thus the spec SHOULD NOT advance without interoperable implementations thereof.

Felix: 'ignorable' is part of the updated test scenarious

<umit> Asir, could you qualify (2) do you mean the entire section???

<umit> was going to go into the queue to ask this point

Chris: if we remove a feature at risk eventually then it can be moved to the other spec

Asir: if we mark something at risk then my assumption WG will have a lower bar, say just 2 companies should interop

Chris: we need to finish agenda item 8...

<Symon> +1

Maryann: more time would be preferred

<maryann> +1 to umit

<asir> b) External Policy Attachment maps to Section 3.4, Attachment draft

Chris: apparently more time is needed to decide on the list of features

Paul: this needs to be resolved asap

Chris: we need to indicate a minimal period for the Last Call to last
... CR period can last into June or July
... Earliest date is the end of May, reasonable ?

Umit: Early bar is not a good idea

<umit> I agree with Asir

Asir: early bar is good, we'll have a time to discuss issues in June

Chris: at least 2 companies should demonstrate interop with default requirements, this is a low bar
... we have more than two companies interoperating, so what about a higher bar ?
... can go with different level bars for features at and at no risk

Asir: WSDL2.0 attachments are not at risk, but there're only two implementations out there

Paul: we can probably get 5 to 6 people, then 4 companies will be a reasobale bar for main features, 2 for features at risk and for WSDL2.0 attachments

Chris: lets use July as a marker for the end of CR period
... we'll set July as an expected date
... encourages people to use bugzilla to track what they think is missing from the test suite

<prasad> I like to point out that we are losing editors and a number had been missing for weeks :(

Paul: would like the editors to start thinking about converting that doc

<cferris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Jan/0143.html

<scribe> ACTION: Editors to start thinking about converting the document at 10 01http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Jan/0143.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action04]

Chris: well done everyone

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Chris to work with Felix and Paul to ensure that the namespace document is updated accordingly when we publish the CR drafts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Editors to start thinking about converting the document at 10 01http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Jan/0143.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Maryann to work with Asir and Umit to review the changed WSDLBinding document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Maryann, Asir and Umit to review the changed WSDLBinding document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html#action01]
 
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Default Present: Charlton_Barreto, Sergey_Beryozkin, maryann, Mark_Temple-Raston, Felix, Frederick_Hirsch, Chris_Ferris, Tom_Rutt, asir, Fabian, Mark_Little, m2, Paul_Cotton, Prasad_Yendluri, sanka, GlenD, whenry, Arnaud, Dale_Moberg, Umit, Abbie_Barbir, symon_chang
Present: 06Charlton_Barreto Sergey_Beryozkin maryann Mark_Temple-Raston William_Henry Felix Frederick_Hirsch Chris_Ferris asir Fabian Tom_Rutt Mark_Little m2 01_06Paul_Cotton Prasad_Yendluri01 Sanka Glen Arnaud Abbie Symon Umit Dale

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: DaveO)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
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Regrets: Daniel Roth
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Feb/0027.html
Got date from IRC log name: 7 Feb 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-ws-policy-minutes.html
People with action items: asir chris editors maryann umit

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