W3C

TAG telcon

4 Apr 2006

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Tim Berners-Lee, Dan Connolly, Henry Thompson, David Orchard, Vincent Quint, T. V. Raman, Norm Walsh
Regrets
Noah Mendelsohn, Ed Rice
Chair
Vincent Quint
Scribe
T. V. Raman

Contents


<DanC> raman, it's traditional to have the machine draft minutes, then edit them and check them in under /2001/tag/YYYY/MM, and then mail a pointer to www-tag. But practice varies considerably.

so you dont want me to scribe on IRC?

<DanC> sorry, yes... the machine drafts them based on what you write in IRC

I'd prefer to just type in here --- dont have cycles to turn it into a new work activity of its own:-)

Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

last week's minutes approved subject to HT's final edits.

<DanC> (henry, so the minutes will stay at http://www.w3.org/2006/03/28-tagmem-minutes.html ? I want their address in today's minutes)

<ht> DanC, yes.

<Norm> So do we have tentative dates in Oct?

<Norm> Yes, nevermind.

<DanC> I prefer a 2 day meeting. I'm not sure I can muster 3 days of steam.

also issue: Venice is a long way to travel for 2 days

<DanC> ACTION: DanC to explore Venice meeting venue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]

<DanC> June meeting logistics

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note a possible conflict with the June meeting

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to send hotel details in a week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html#action02]

AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh

Vincent: AC Meeting At WWW 2006 Edinburgh

Tag Summary to be reviewed by email

Possible TAG session at AC Meeting

Conclusion: no active TAG interest in adding to AC Meeting agenda

<ht> http://www.w3.org/2006/03/28-tagmem-minutes.html is now cleaned up

<DanC> our recent WD

<inserted> Issue URNsAndRegistries-50

<inserted> Issue URNsAndRegistries-50

Issue URNsAndRegistries-50

HT: Introduces URN discussion

<ht> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50.html#metadata

<DanC> following my nose from the agenda, I get 1.7 2006/04/04 16:32:06 ; can anybody confirm?

<ht> yes, DanC

HT: Document covers a number of different proposals/patterns of use for new URI schemes etc. --- identify things we think of as information resources
... reorged to make section2 a simple, short summary of why the TAG doesn't think that for many purposes such things are different from http: in interesting ways.

<DanC> (implicit? darn.)

If not, then you shouldn't be forking the Web

HT: would like feedback on the document style --- and also wants input on sections 2.7 and 2.8

<timbl> ?NRI

<Norm> "New Resource Identifiers" I expect

DanC: NRI is jarring

<DanC> "recent proposals ([RFC 3688], [oasis URN], [XRI])"

HT: we're not just responding to XRIs --- we want to cover anyone who wants to mint a new URN subspace for electronic resources e.g. New Zealand Govt

DanC: suggests adding info:

TimBL we can discuss Info:

TimBL: convinced XRIs are a bad idea, not sure if info: is any worse than mailto:

DanC: info: looks exactly like XRI

Some confusion as to how info: thingies are resolved

tvr: recommend not using an acronym like NRI

<timbl> nRI

<timbl> _RI

TimBL: one of the problems with HTTP is that one cannot get a URI space for ever.
... perhaps pull that out as an issue?

Perpetual Resource Identifiers?

HT: believes that the XRI spec as it stands no longer claims to solve/address the perpetual resource problem, since they also use DNS for resolution

<DanC> [[

<DanC> The http: URI scheme implements a two-part approach to identifying resources. It combines a universal distributed naming scheme for owners of resources with a hierarchical syntax for distinguishing resources which share the same owner. Widely available mechanisms (DNS and web servers, respectively) exist to support the use of http: URIs to not only identify but actually retrieve representations of information resources.

<DanC> ]]

HT: as we've worked on the finding, we have moved towards DanC's position --

DanC pastes it in below

<DanC> right under 3 The value of http: URIs

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to say yes, timbl, let's hope folks considering DAV: and dix: URIs schemes _will_ look here

<timbl> or "the poverty of"

<Zakim> timbl, you wanted to suggest a title "The dangers of URNs and Registries"

<DanC> (formatting around 2.7 Rich authority is goofy)

HT: 2.6 URI for an object vs URI to the metadata for that object
... what do people think?

<DanC> (this is another place where I'd find a full survey more useful.)

HT: clarifies that here metadata is not http header like metadata in response to question: if you have a uri to metadata and uri to object, then how do you keep them in sync?

<ht> The kind of metadata people are looking for in the nRI case is things such as dc:creator etc.

<timbl> Link:

TimBL: given foo.html then foo.html,meta might give you a lot of extensible metadata

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the <link> and to note that the state-of-the art in metadata is the <link> element and Link: HTTP header; see

<ht> HST notes that this only works for HTML

<DanC> the Link: header field works

<ht> HST asks for what value of 'works'

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/netlib/Link_Prefetching_FAQ.html

<timbl> Cool by design (tm)

<DanC> I know somthine bout what trustred resolution _might_ mean, but I was hoping to take advantage of henry's survey work

DO: reviewing Section 4

<DanC> (huh? I thought the point of URIs is that they're context free; i.e. that The Web is _the_ context.)

<DanC> (btw, timbl, on permanent domains, note that example.org is permanently allocated by the IETF, i.e. the DNS technical standardization body. I think it's probably efficient to just do that again whenever necessary.)

<Zakim> ht, you wanted to say that XRIs _are_ meant to be dereferencable

DO: XRIs use XRI namespace for XRI descriptors

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)...

<ht> DO, HST to consider two examples, one using URNs for namespaces and one using XRIs for documents

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note that there are scheme-independent resolution mechanisms (DDS)...

DO: Suggest splitting into two examples A) namespaces a la oasis B) documents that are meant to be location independent

DanC idea of a uri scheme that cannot be looked up sounds absurd

TimBL: shall we set up a W3C resolver that does its best to resolve any types of resource?

<DanC> (that was suggested in jest, I'm pretty sure)

<timbl> http://undereferencable.net/ can only be used for dereferencing undereferencable URIs

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ask what's the path from here to XRI proponents

<dorchard> I can take another swag at 2 example.s

<DanC> raman, can you start with http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html , edit it a bit, and send it to www-tag?

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: DanC to explore Venice meeting venue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to send hotel details in a week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html#action02]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2006/04/11 18:13:54 $