IRC log of tagmem on 2005-11-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:44:51 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-tagmem-irc
- 17:50:55 [ht]
- Meeting: TAG telcon
- 17:51:05 [ht]
- Chair: Vincent Quint
- 17:51:10 [ht]
- Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
- 17:51:21 [ht]
- ScribeNick: ht
- 17:52:01 [ht]
- Agenda+ Next telcon
- 17:52:10 [ht]
- Agenda+ This agenda
- 17:52:31 [ht]
- Agenda+ Minutes of 18 October http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/10/18-minutes.html
- 17:52:55 [ht]
- Agenda+ Minutes of 25 October http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/10/18-minutes.html
- 17:53:17 [ht]
- agenda+ AC Meeting report draft http://www.w3.org/2005/11/tag-summary.html
- 17:53:45 [ht]
- agenda+ endPointRefs-47 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#endPointRefs-47
- 17:54:05 [ht]
- agenda+ abstractComponentRefs-37 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#abstractComponentRefs-37
- 17:54:22 [ht]
- agenda+ namespaceDocument-8 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#namespaceDocument-8
- 17:54:43 [ht]
- agenda+ Review pending actions http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/03/action-summary.htmlf
- 17:54:53 [ht]
- agenda+ AOB
- 17:59:06 [ht]
- zakim, this will be TAG
- 17:59:06 [Zakim]
- ok, ht; I see TAG_Weekly()12:30PM scheduled to start 29 minutes ago
- 17:59:25 [dorchard]
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- 17:59:38 [Vincent]
- Vincent has joined #tagmem
- 18:00:33 [Zakim]
- TAG_Weekly()12:30PM has now started
- 18:00:40 [Zakim]
- + +1.650.685.aaaa
- 18:01:11 [ht]
- zakim, please call ht-781
- 18:01:11 [Zakim]
- ok, ht; the call is being made
- 18:01:12 [Zakim]
- +Ht
- 18:01:32 [Ed]
- Ed has joined #tagmem
- 18:01:34 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 18:01:43 [ht]
- zakim, +1 is noah
- 18:01:43 [Zakim]
- +noah; got it
- 18:01:56 [Zakim]
- +Vincent_Quint
- 18:02:22 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 18:02:43 [ht]
- zakim, ? is Ed
- 18:02:43 [Zakim]
- +Ed; got it
- 18:02:45 [Zakim]
- +TimBL
- 18:03:03 [dorchard]
- are the minutes from last week sufficient?
- 18:03:44 [timbl]
- timbl has joined #tagmem
- 18:03:47 [Vincent]
- zakim, who is here
- 18:03:47 [Zakim]
- Vincent, you need to end that query with '?'
- 18:04:04 [Vincent]
- zakim, who is here ?
- 18:04:04 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see noah, Ht, DanC, Vincent_Quint, Ed, TimBL
- 18:04:05 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see timbl, Ed, Vincent, dorchard, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, ht, DanC
- 18:04:22 [ht]
- Topic: Roll call
- 18:04:48 [ht]
- DavidO, you dialing in?
- 18:05:02 [dorchard]
- I'll be dialing in..
- 18:05:58 [ht]
- David, should we wait for you?
- 18:06:39 [Zakim]
- +Dave_Orchard
- 18:07:16 [DanC]
- DanC has joined #tagmem
- 18:07:47 [ht]
- zakim, next agendum
- 18:07:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Next telcon" taken up [from ht]
- 18:08:01 [noah_at_dinner]
- noah_at_dinner has joined #tagmem
- 18:08:47 [Roy]
- Roy has joined #tagmem
- 18:09:04 [ht]
- Regrets from Vincent, TimBL, Henry for 8 November
- 18:09:09 [Zakim]
- +Roy
- 18:09:49 [noah_sfo]
- For those who didn't hear me chatting with Vincent at the start of the call: I had sent regrets but was able to get out of my meetings for about 45 mins to an hour, maybe more.
- 18:10:29 [ht]
- Ed Rice volunteers to chair the 8 November telcon
- 18:10:43 [ht]
- Vincent will prepare the agenda
- 18:10:59 [DanC]
- I'm OK to scribe 8 Nov.
- 18:11:06 [noah_sfo]
- FWIW: we had the compoundDocs. stuff scheduled for last week, and left it off this week in part on the assumption that I would not be here today. I note that Tim is unavail. next week. Maybe or maybe not it's worth trying to slip it in during the first hour or so today while I'm around. If so, give me 3 mins notice to find materials. Either way is fine with me.
- 18:11:36 [DanC]
- regrets 15 Nov due to XML 2005
- 18:12:10 [DanC]
- ok, color me at risk
- 18:12:31 [ht]
- Regrets from Vincent for 15 November, Ed is at risk, Dan Connolly at risk
- 18:12:53 [ht]
- HST is at XML 2005, hopes to make the call
- 18:13:41 [ht]
- Noah will chair on 15 November
- 18:13:49 [ht]
- Regrets from Norm for 15 November
- 18:14:40 [ht]
- zakim, next agendum
- 18:14:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "This agenda" taken up [from ht]
- 18:14:41 [noah_sfo]
- OK, I'll go find cd stuff
- 18:15:11 [Zakim]
- +Norm
- 18:16:06 [ht]
- Norm: June f2f logistics are being sorted out, looks good
- 18:17:36 [ht]
- agenda+ compound documents http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#mixedUIXMLNamespace-33
- 18:17:58 [DanC]
- 18 and 25 Oct minutes OK by me
- 18:18:00 [ht]
- Added new agenda item on mixedUIXMLNamespace-33
- 18:18:08 [ht]
- zakim, next agendum
- 18:18:08 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Minutes of 18 October http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/10/18-minutes.html" taken up [from ht]
- 18:19:04 [ht]
- RESOLUTION: 18 October minutes approved
- 18:19:09 [ht]
- zakim, next agendum
- 18:19:10 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Minutes of 25 October http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/10/18-minutes.html" taken up [from ht]
- 18:19:39 [ht]
- RESOLUTION: 25 October minutes approved
- 18:20:18 [ht]
- zakim, next agendum
- 18:20:18 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "AC Meeting report draft http://www.w3.org/2005/11/tag-summary.html" taken up [from ht]
- 18:22:16 [ht]
- HST: These are not the slides that I'll speak to at the meeting, rather what goes to the attendees in advance
- 18:22:44 [ht]
- RESOLUTION: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/11/tag-summary.html for publication once the missing link is filled in
- 18:23:58 [ht]
- ACTION: HST to produce a draft of slides in time for telcon on 22 November
- 18:24:05 [DanC]
- (18 and 25 oct minutes edited to remove DRAFT)
- 18:24:31 [ht]
- s/draft of slides/draft of slides for TAG slot at AC meeting/
- 18:24:53 [noah_sfo]
- Noah is very likely to be at AC meeting as well
- 18:26:00 [ht]
- Attendees at AC meeting: Vincent, Noah, Henry, Tim
- 18:26:22 [ht]
- [Note that Dave Orchard will be phone-only for December f2f]
- 18:26:46 [ht]
- s/Henry, Tim/Henry, Tim, Dan/
- 18:27:28 [ht]
- zakim, take up agendum 11
- 18:27:28 [Zakim]
- agendum 11. "compound documents http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#mixedUIXMLNamespace-33" taken up [from ht]
- 18:28:44 [ht]
- NM: Took an action at f2f to review [these documents]
- 18:28:54 [ht]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Oct/0040.html
- 18:29:49 [ht]
- NM: Sent [email] with my review, which was not specifically based on mixedUIXMLNamespace-33, but covers most of that stuff
- 18:30:45 [ht]
- ... CDF WG has prepared two things: 1 Requirements doc, 1 Profile
- 18:31:00 [ht]
- ... The latter has been split subsequent to first publication
- 18:31:19 [ht]
- ... They distinguish between by-reference and by-inclusion compounding
- 18:31:25 [ht]
- ER: Why?
- 18:31:30 [timbl]
- q+
- 18:31:55 [ht]
- NM: Not clear -- they thought by-reference was going to be easier, but empirically it seems to me that that's not at all clear
- 18:31:58 [ht]
- ack timbl
- 18:32:02 [Vincent]
- ack timbl
- 18:32:16 [ht]
- TBL: Inclusion means the mixed-namespace-thing
- 18:32:26 [ht]
- ...which is our [issue]
- 18:32:54 [ht]
- ... Reference means e.g. using an Object, which doesn't raise all the hard questions
- 18:33:01 [ht]
- NM: Makes sense
- 18:33:29 [ht]
- ... Core of our concern is the general semantics of mixed-namespace documents
- 18:33:41 [timbl]
- "Self Describing Documents on the Web"
- 18:33:45 [ht]
- ... To what extent is a random mixed-NS document self-describing?
- 18:34:11 [DanC]
- "WICD, or Web Integration Compound Document, is a specific embodiment of
- 18:34:11 [DanC]
- CDF using XHTML, SVG, and CSS."
- 18:34:24 [ht]
- ... CDF is focused on UI-oriented stuff, for a bounded set of vocabs, focussing on HTML, SVG, etc.
- 18:34:24 [timbl]
- Noah: SDDOTW is something we the TAG should get into moreo and more
- 18:35:01 [ht]
- ... So e.g. what happens when you click on a bit of real-estate rendered from a nested bit, does it propagate out, etc.
- 18:35:19 [timbl]
- q+
- 18:35:33 [Roy]
- Roy has joined #tagmem
- 18:35:36 [ht]
- ... I wish they'd layered this much more, separating out the general question from this more focussed one
- 18:35:55 [ht]
- ... I've had private communication from a WG member which is sympathetic to this point
- 18:35:56 [DanC]
- q+ to question advice to generalize, unless we're confident there's implementation experience with something more general
- 18:36:03 [ht]
- q+ to disagree with conclusion
- 18:36:37 [Vincent]
- ack timbl
- 18:36:38 [ht]
- ... Sounds also like the WG is not actually working much from the Req'ts doc. . .
- 18:36:52 [ht]
- TBL: Thanks Noah
- 18:37:23 [ht]
- ... Counterarg't to the generalisation you argue for --- there are some things you can't do in XML until you know the semantics
- 18:37:36 [ht]
- ... I think mixedUI case is one of these
- 18:37:55 [ht]
- ... Consider RDF, the semantics of mixing is clear because it's been designed in
- 18:38:20 [noah_sfo]
- q+ To respond on generalizing, and to point out the earlier systems have separately layered compound document semantics from UI
- 18:38:33 [ht]
- ... Similarly wrt the mixedUI case, because it has an underlying coherence, they can talk about e.g. what happens to mouse clicks
- 18:38:41 [DanC]
- q+ DanC2 to ask whether the CD requirements doc expresses a position on xlinkScope-23
- 18:39:03 [ht]
- ... But in general, w/o that semantic info, you can only say something very shallow/weak about composition
- 18:39:26 [ht]
- ... Similarly, this feeds over into our discussion of versioning, languages, etc.
- 18:40:00 [ht]
- ... E.g. when a language has styling semantics, some versioning stories make sense, but don't necessarily generalize
- 18:40:06 [DanC]
- ack danc
- 18:40:06 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to question advice to generalize, unless we're confident there's implementation experience with something more general
- 18:40:07 [Vincent]
- ack danc
- 18:40:10 [Zakim]
- DanC2, you wanted to ask whether the CD requirements doc expresses a position on xlinkScope-23 and to ask what became of VQ's investigation of the CDF WG's media type issues
- 18:40:52 [ht]
- DanC: Don't want to set requirements they can't meet, and the general problem is too hard to hand to them
- 18:41:02 [timbl]
- It is difficult to go far talking about versioning without more semantics than raw XML. Hypertext and Semantic web agre example of langauge domains in which there are enough semantics to do more.
- 18:41:14 [ht]
- ... Examples I'm aware of (OpenDoc, Andrew) are not getting used
- 18:41:25 [ht]
- NM: What about Ole, I'm using it
- 18:41:42 [Vincent]
- ack ht
- 18:41:42 [Zakim]
- ht, you wanted to disagree with conclusion
- 18:41:47 [dorchard]
- q+ to ask about composition of transforms, specificially xinclude + xslt + ...
- 18:41:49 [DanC]
- q+ to ask whether the CD requirements doc expresses a position on xlinkScope-23 and to ask what became of VQ's investigation of the CDF WG's media type issues
- 18:42:53 [Vincent]
- ack noah
- 18:42:53 [Zakim]
- noah_sfo, you wanted to respond on generalizing, and to point out the earlier systems have separately layered compound document semantics from UI
- 18:42:55 [ht]
- DanC: did they take a position on the XLink scope question?
- 18:43:01 [ht]
- NM: Not as far as I remember
- 18:43:01 [DanC_scribe]
- NM: if they took a position on xlinkScope, I don't recall
- 18:43:30 [ht]
- NM: In reply to TBL et al.'s point
- 18:43:44 [dorchard]
- q+ to ask about composition of transforms, specificially xinclude + xslt + ...
- 18:43:45 [ht]
- zakim, please call ht-781
- 18:43:45 [Zakim]
- ok, ht; the call is being made
- 18:44:05 [ht]
- zakim, disconnect ht
- 18:44:05 [Zakim]
- Ht is being disconnected
- 18:44:06 [Zakim]
- -Ht
- 18:44:11 [dorchard]
- q+ to ask about 1) composition of transforms, specificially xinclude + xslt + .. and 2) to ask about xml processing model
- 18:44:13 [ht]
- zakim, please call ht-781
- 18:44:13 [Zakim]
- ok, ht; the call is being made
- 18:44:15 [Zakim]
- +Ht
- 18:44:34 [ht]
- [missed some of Noah's comments]
- 18:45:08 [ht]
- NM: Ole has an abstract notion of hierarchical (stream) story, modelled as a 'baby' FAT file system
- 18:45:32 [Roy]
- q+ to ask if anyone remembers why this is a TAG issue and whether CDF is aware of it
- 18:45:40 [ht]
- ... If you crack open e.g. a Word document, you find such a thing, with the analogues of QNames connecting things up
- 18:46:05 [timbl]
- q?
- 18:46:14 [Vincent]
- ack dorchard
- 18:46:14 [Zakim]
- dorchard, you wanted to ask about composition of transforms, specificially xinclude + xslt + ... and to ask about composition of transforms, specificially xinclude + xslt + ... and
- 18:46:18 [Zakim]
- ... to ask about 1) composition of transforms, specificially xinclude + xslt + .. and 2) to ask about xml processing model
- 18:46:19 [ht]
- ... CDF people could/should do something similar, was my point, w/o boiling the ocean
- 18:46:27 [ht]
- q+ to say they're the wrong people for the job
- 18:46:48 [ht]
- DO: Compositionality of transforms point? XInclude, XSLT, etc.. . .
- 18:47:03 [timbl]
- q+ to say yes to Noah, teh XML functions paper really concludes that that top-dwon model of XML semantics is very important. But maybe the TAG should say it rather than CDF.
- 18:47:03 [ht]
- NM: Not that kind of transforms, rather scale/rotate/displace
- 18:47:18 [Vincent]
- ack danc
- 18:47:18 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to ask whether the CD requirements doc expresses a position on xlinkScope-23 and to ask what became of VQ's investigation of the CDF WG's media type issues
- 18:47:19 [ht]
- DO: Anything about the XMLProc sort of transforms?
- 18:47:25 [ht]
- NM: Maybe, will check
- 18:47:46 [ht]
- DC: Vincent, what was answer about media type issue?
- 18:47:51 [ht]
- VQ: Haven't asked yet. . .
- 18:48:03 [DanC_scribe]
- ack roy
- 18:48:03 [Zakim]
- Roy, you wanted to ask if anyone remembers why this is a TAG issue and whether CDF is aware of it
- 18:48:05 [Vincent]
- ack roy
- 18:48:47 [ht]
- RF: Why was this issue split out from a larger issue, what are we expecting from this group, are they aware we're expecting it?
- 18:49:14 [ht]
- TBL: We're not expecting something from the specifically, but we should be keeping an eye on what they're doing
- 18:49:53 [ht]
- RF: So I'm happy that Noah checked it, but what's it to do with us
- 18:50:20 [ht]
- VQ: It does overlap with mixedUIXMLNamespace-33
- 18:50:40 [ht]
- RF: So why didn't we just close the issue as soon as the CDF WG was formed?
- 18:51:02 [ht]
- NM: Well, so much discussion about self-describing at the E'burgh f2f, I took this on in that spirit
- 18:51:07 [Vincent]
- ack ht
- 18:51:07 [Zakim]
- ht, you wanted to say they're the wrong people for the job
- 18:51:10 [ht]
- RF: OK, that's clearer
- 18:52:48 [ht]
- HST: I don't think the CDF is the right group of people to ask for a story about general semantic composition. Ole isn't a general story, it's still a UI/presentation focussed story
- 18:53:13 [Roy]
- I suspect that the reason we split the issues is specifically so that the WG could be formed to address this, not the *general* issue which has a different number on our list
- 18:53:32 [ht]
- NM: Well, I am still concerned that they can't do their job if they don't layer it better. But I hear the input I'm getting, so we're not going to feed that in to the WG as such
- 18:54:07 [Vincent]
- ack timbl
- 18:54:07 [Zakim]
- timbl, you wanted to say yes to Noah, teh XML functions paper really concludes that that top-dwon model of XML semantics is very important. But maybe the TAG should say it rather
- 18:54:11 [Zakim]
- ... than CDF.
- 18:54:20 [ht]
- ... But there are other things in my email that might be useful, so can we point them at it 'officially' w/o endorsing the layering point
- 18:55:21 [ht]
- TBL: Talking about semantic composition is important, but the CDF WG shouldn't be asked to do it generally -- I still hope the TAG will tackle that problem, under the heading of xxx-13
- 18:55:48 [timbl]
- q?
- 18:55:58 [ht]
- ... We'll pend our xxx-33 issue until you've gone a bit further, and then have another look
- 18:56:27 [ht]
- NM: But what about those on the WG who want to go in the generalizing direction?
- 18:56:44 [ht]
- TBL: I think we should encourage them to focus on the UI-specific stuff
- 18:56:49 [Vincent]
- ack danc
- 18:56:54 [ht]
- NM: Well, that will disappoint some people
- 18:57:24 [dorchard]
- I'm in favour of non-generalization for CDF.
- 18:57:55 [ht]
- DC: Straw poll: a) more discussion; b) withdraw xxx-333; c) close it on basis of CDR WG existing; d) pend until CDF make more concrete progress
- 18:58:15 [ht]
- NM: What do you prefer?
- 18:58:26 [timbl]
- I support (d)
- 18:58:28 [dorchard]
- dave: option d). I'd rather talk about other things.
- 18:58:34 [ht]
- DC: (d) plus encourage them
- 18:58:37 [Roy]
- my pref is (d)
- 18:58:42 [ht]
- HST: (d)
- 18:58:48 [DanC]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 18:58:48 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see noah, Ht, DanC, Vincent_Quint, Ed, TimBL, Dave_Orchard, Roy, Norm
- 18:58:49 [Norm]
- NDW: (d)
- 18:59:00 [Ed]
- D for me as wel
- 18:59:00 [Vincent]
- (d)
- 18:59:04 [noah_sfo]
- Fine with me.
- 18:59:05 [dorchard]
- we multi-task well :-)
- 18:59:16 [noah_sfo]
- I could live with other options, but (d) is just fine.
- 18:59:22 [dorchard]
- or shoudl I say, multi-channel well.
- 18:59:38 [ht]
- RESOLUTION: Pend xxx-33 until we see a Last-Call WD from the CDF folk
- 18:59:53 [DanC]
- er... something before last call would be better, really
- 19:00:25 [dorchard]
- I don't mind reviewing b4 LC as well.
- 19:00:25 [ht]
- ACTION: NM to follow-up to CDF that his email was not endorsed in detail by TAG
- 19:00:34 [noah_sfo]
- ACTION: Noah to send note to CDF clarifying that earlier note was just a draft, that TAG has not to provide formal input on CDF Reqs at this point, and maybe hinting at concerns about generalizing
- 19:00:44 [noah_sfo]
- s/maybe//
- 19:00:59 [ht]
- s/Last-Call WD/significant progress in a public draft/
- 19:01:41 [ht]
- VQ: Nominate RF to scribe on 15 November
- 19:02:31 [ht]
- zakim, next agendum
- 19:02:31 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "AC Meeting report draft http://www.w3.org/2005/11/tag-summary.html" taken up [from ht]
- 19:03:14 [ht]
- zakim, take up agendum 6
- 19:03:14 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "endPointRefs-47 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#endPointRefs-47" taken up [from ht]
- 19:03:57 [ht]
- VQ: Mark Nottingham thanked us for our input, said they'd welcome more input in the next few weeks
- 19:04:39 [ht]
- zakim, disconnect ht
- 19:04:39 [Zakim]
- Ht is being disconnected
- 19:04:40 [Zakim]
- -Ht
- 19:04:47 [ht]
- zakim, please call ht-781
- 19:04:47 [Zakim]
- ok, ht; the call is being made
- 19:04:49 [Zakim]
- +Ht
- 19:05:37 [Zakim]
- -Roy
- 19:06:06 [ht]
- HST: Will circulate a worked example as soon as possible, hope by end of week
- 19:06:28 [ht]
- VQ: Right, so what do we do to help them?
- 19:07:07 [ht]
- HST: We need to talk about this in any case, if we miss their deadline so be it
- 19:07:26 [ht]
- VQ: They have a f2f next week, at which point they will have a better sense of their deadline
- 19:07:36 [ht]
- ... So we'll return to this next week
- 19:07:43 [ht]
- zakim, take up agendum 7
- 19:07:43 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "abstractComponentRefs-37 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#abstractComponentRefs-37" taken up [from ht]
- 19:08:12 [ht]
- zakim, take up agendum 5
- 19:08:12 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "AC Meeting report draft http://www.w3.org/2005/11/tag-summary.html" taken up [from ht]
- 19:08:26 [DanC]
- (for reference, our last discussion of ns8 http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-tagmem-minutes.html#item06 )
- 19:08:37 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/usps usps
- 19:08:43 [ht]
- zakim, take up agendum 8
- 19:08:43 [Zakim]
- agendum 8. "namespaceDocument-8 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#namespaceDocument-8" taken up [from ht]
- 19:09:05 [DanC]
- e.g. http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/usps#MailPiece
- 19:09:27 [ht]
- DC: The above URI tries to do both the RDF property thing and the document fragment thing
- 19:10:23 [ht]
- ... But it's also a class name, and you can use it in RDF
- 19:10:55 [ht]
- TBL: Is it a convention, or is it trying to really identify two different things in two contexts?
- 19:11:11 [ht]
- DC: I don't what to say I'm using the URI for two different things. . .
- 19:11:24 [ht]
- ... Creative use of the HTML mime type
- 19:11:41 [ht]
- TBL: Loath to go there, because it rules out writing RDF statements about anchors
- 19:11:59 [ht]
- ... Back in June at MIT, we were working towards a position
- 19:12:39 [DanC]
- re rdf statements about anchors, http://esw.w3.org/topic/HashSlashDuality
- 19:12:39 [ht]
- ... That when you use a fragment in a UI context which refers to e.g. a class, you fall back/coerce to a presentation you can see
- 19:13:03 [ht]
- DC: We have to hide one (the anchor) or the other (the class)
- 19:13:09 [ht]
- ... I just want to make this OK
- 19:14:06 [Vincent]
- q?
- 19:14:26 [ht]
- HST: Tim, could you clarify your fall-back story wrt the redirect advice we gave for the namespace URI
- 19:14:42 [DanC]
- (the TOC of the minutes should show fragmentInXML-28 as much as issue 8, please)
- 19:14:57 [ht]
- TBL: Depends on whether what it gets from the redirect is RDF or HTML
- 19:15:35 [ht]
- ... That in turn depends in part on what the agent is that's asking
- 19:16:37 [ht]
- DC: So we all think this is OK? I don't hear anyone saying it is. . .
- 19:16:57 [ht]
- TBL: It's wrong because [missed it] We're exploring the options
- 19:17:11 [DanC]
- s/[missed it]/it uses the same URI for 2 different things/
- 19:17:23 [DanC]
- s/saying it is/saying it isn't/
- 19:17:52 [ht]
- DO: Is this related to the abstractComponentRefs-nn as well
- 19:18:22 [ht]
- ... and the question the WSDL WG asked about whether they could refer to components or sub-trees
- 19:18:28 [Vincent]
- s/-nn/-37
- 19:18:35 [ht]
- ... and we said if they were careful with media types, then yes
- 19:18:44 [timbl]
- The "fallback" philosophy (which I don't necessarily support) would be that the object is *really* a class. inthis case, as the user agent can't grok RDF, and so can't get the full info on the class in the ideal from, there is a fall-back, a sort of type coiersion, and an HTML document ios delivered and the user directed to a paragraph about that class. There is soe information loss, but this happens when you change content type. For example, if we gave a re
- 19:19:39 [timbl]
- A content negotiation with some degradation.
- 19:20:21 [ht]
- TBL: THe danger is that the URI gets bookmarked and used purely as a pointer into the [HTML] document
- 19:21:09 [ht]
- DC: Is it reasonable to think of changing the HTML spec. to use the profile attribute on the document element do make the determination
- 19:21:26 [ht]
- HST: How would this help?
- 19:22:04 [ht]
- DC: Problem was that if we put this in the RDF spec, the browser never sees it
- 19:22:13 [ht]
- ... So we put it in the HTML spec so it has to
- 19:22:25 [ht]
- TBL: Reverse engineering like that is difficult
- 19:23:01 [ht]
- DC: OK, thanks for airing this, content to wait until Norm gets back to writing
- 19:23:55 [ht]
- VQ: So we pend this
- 19:24:37 [DanC]
- (well, we did touch on abstractComponentRefs-37 )
- 19:24:50 [ht]
- VQ: Once again no time for xxx-37 -- are we ready to talk about this in detail yet?
- 19:25:28 [ht]
- DC: I had an action, which I satisfied last week, so I'm OK with not talking about it again right away
- 19:27:11 [ht]
- HST: DO has said we're done, because we replied to WSDL WG
- 19:27:39 [ht]
- ACTION: DO to re-send pointer to basis for this statement about WSDL WG having gotten their answer wrt xxx-37
- 19:27:52 [ht]
- VQ: Then maybe we can close that issue
- 19:28:32 [noah]
- noah has joined #tagmem
- 19:28:52 [ht]
- DC: My question is whether we'll say anything more to the WSDL WG - is Roy going to say something mmore
- 19:29:15 [Roy]
- me? not that I can think of at the moment
- 19:29:16 [DanC]
- about #frags(like_this) in WSDL. are you likely to say anything more than your existing XPointer comments, Roy?
- 19:29:22 [ht]
- HST: I thought the question of XPointer syntax was part of another issue, where we were waiting on Roy
- 19:29:22 [DanC]
- ok.
- 19:29:36 [DanC]
- issue goodURIPractice-NN or some such.
- 19:29:40 [Roy]
- I have two findings to write, yes
- 19:29:49 [DanC]
- ok, we'll stay tuned. sooner is better.
- 19:30:26 [ht]
- Adjourned
- 19:30:33 [noah_sfo]
- noah_sfo has joined #tagmem
- 19:30:34 [ht]
- zakim, bye
- 19:30:34 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.650.685.aaaa, Ht, DanC, noah, Vincent_Quint, Ed, TimBL, Dave_Orchard, Roy, Norm
- 19:30:34 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #tagmem
- 19:30:35 [Roy]
- it is a long flight back
- 19:30:54 [ht]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 19:30:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-tagmem-minutes.html ht
- 19:31:09 [ht]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
- 19:31:26 [ht]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-tagmem-actions.rdf :
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: HST to produce a draft of slides in time for telcon on 22 November [1]
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-tagmem-irc#T18-23-58
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: NM to follow-up to CDF that his email was not endorsed in detail by TAG [2]
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-tagmem-irc#T19-00-25-1
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Noah to send note to CDF clarifying that earlier note was just a draft, that TAG has not to provide formal input on CDF Reqs at this point, and maybe hinting at concerns about generalizing [3]
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-tagmem-irc#T19-00-34
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: DO to re-send pointer to basis for this statement about WSDL WG having gotten their answer wrt xxx-37 [4]
- 19:31:26 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-tagmem-irc#T19-27-39
- 19:31:55 [ht]
- Vincent, I'll clean up the logs tomorrow morning. . .