Re: PROV-ISSUE-239 (TLebo): is wasGeneratedBy(e) meaningful? [prov-dm]

Hi Paolo,
what if instead of the time, I just knew the location (it was generated in
Madrid),
or the role of the activity (i.e., creator), but not the activity itself?

Maybe we are running into a corner case, but as Stian suggested I don't see
any reason
why wasGeneratedBy([],e) should be forbidden.

Now that I realize, we are not supporting this in prov-o!

Daniel

2012/2/7 Paolo Missier <Paolo.Missier@ncl.ac.uk>

>  Tim
>
> what I meant is that the def. should not make it optional.
>
> wasGeneratedBy([],e) seems uninformative.
>
> The argument that you could have a timestamp brings us back to the F2F
> discussion on separating "at" from "by" everywhere:
>
> wasGeneratedAt(), wasGeneratedB(),
> wasStartedAt(), wasStartedBy()
> ...
>
> -Paolo
>
>
>
>  On 2/7/12 1:20 AM, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>
>  *
> *
>
>
>
>  On Feb 6, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Paolo Missier wrote:
>
>  The activity should not be optional, surely?
>
>
>  But it is!
>
>
>  All of the components except entity are optional, so DM lets me say
> "wasGeneratedBy(e)"
> *wasGeneratedBy(id,e,a,t,attrs)*
>
>    - *id*: an *optional* identifier id identifying the generation record;
>    - *entity*: an identifier e identifying an entity record that
>    represents the entity that is created;
>    - *activity*: an *optional* identifier a identifying an activity
>    record that represents the activity that creates the entity;
>    - *time*: an *optional* "generation time" t, the time at which the
>    entity was created;
>    - *attributes*: an *optional* set of attribute-value pairs attrs that
>    describes the modalities of generation of this entity by this activity.
>
>
>  so the activity _must_ be there, and if it's not named then we _must_
> name one?
>
>  If so, then how do we tell the difference between that kind of optional
> and the truly optional references?
>
>
>
>  -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> -Paolo
>
> On 2/6/12 9:19 PM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>
> PROV-ISSUE-239 (TLebo): is wasGeneratedBy(e) meaningful? [prov-dm]
>
>
>  http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/239
>
>
>  Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>
> On product: prov-dm
>
>
>  Everything but entity is OPTIONAL in wasGeneratedBy.
>
>
>  If I say only wasGeneratedBy(e), what did I say? And why was I allowed
> to say it?
>
>
>  from WD3:
>
>
>
>  A generation record, written wasGeneratedBy(id,e,a,t,attrs) in PROV-ASN,
> has the following components:
>
>
>      id: an optional identifier id identifying the generation record;
>
>      entity: an identifier e identifying an entity record that represents
> the entity that is created;
>
>      activity: an optional identifier a identifying an activity record
> that represents the activity that creates the entity;
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -----------  ~oo~  --------------
> Paolo Missier - Paolo.Missier@newcastle.ac.uk, pmissier@acm.org
> School of Computing Science, Newcastle University,  UK
> http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/Paolo.Missier
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -----------  ~oo~  --------------
> Paolo Missier - Paolo.Missier@newcastle.ac.uk, pmissier@acm.org
> School of Computing Science, Newcastle University,  UKhttp://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/Paolo.Missier
>
>