ISSUE-200: Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements

legend-placement

Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements

State:
CLOSED
Product:
HTML 5 spec
Raised by:
Sam Ruby
Opened on:
2012-01-16
Description:
Raised on behalf of Marat Tanalin and
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12834 :

Section: "The legend element"
(http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/forms.html#the-legend-element).

Wrong spec part: "Contexts in which this element can be used: As the first
child of a fieldset element."

This is bad and harmful requirement. LEGEND should be allowed to be placed
inside DIV (_common_ container element) as well as after any other element.
"First child" requirement makes many visual designs unimplementable. For
example, DIV-wrapping might be needed to place something to the left of legend
with arbitrary paddings and so on.

Currently, web developers are forced to just _drop_ LEGEND element in such
cases and just use another element (e.g. H2-H6 element) instead of LEGEND when
exactly LEGEND would be more appropriate than H2, but is not allowed just
because "validator said this is invalid".

Spec should not force web developers to use wrong semantic solutions. Using H2
(or any other element) in place of LEGEND (where actually LEGEND is
semantically appropriate) is wrong.

Probable correct description for contexts in which LEGEND can be used:
"First _structural_ (semantic) parent element of LEGEND should be FIELDSET".
This means that FIELSET can contain any number of nested DIV elements, and
LEGEND may be inside one of them as well as (but NOT only allowed) direct
child of FIELDSET, and order of elements (including LEGEND) inside FIELDSET
can be _any_ that is necessary in a specific case (LEGEND should NOT be needed
to be exactly first semantic child of FIELDSET).

Otherwise, LEGEND will be just dropped by web developer in cases when LEGEND
just cannot be exactly first child according to specific visual design layout.
Related Actions Items:
No related actions
Related emails:
  1. Re: HTML-ISSUE-200 (legend-placement): Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements [HTML 5 spec] (from youjoomlallc@gmail.com on 2013-01-14)
  2. [minutes] 20120726 HTML WG (from plh@w3.org on 2012-07-27)
  3. RE: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-26 - issues, decisions and task force reports (from krisk@microsoft.com on 2012-07-26)
  4. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-26 - issues, decisions and task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-07-25)
  5. Re: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-19 - issues, decisions and surveys (from eoconnor@apple.com on 2012-07-19)
  6. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-19 - issues, decisions and surveys (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-07-18)
  7. RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-11 - actions, issues, task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-07-13)
  8. RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-11 - actions, issues, task force reports (from eric.sun@huawei.com on 2012-07-13)
  9. RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-11 - actions, issues, task force reports (from eric.sun@huawei.com on 2012-07-13)
  10. RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-11 - actions, issues, task force reports (from eric.sun@huawei.com on 2012-07-13)
  11. {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-11 - actions, issues, task force reports (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-07-12)
  12. RE: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-06-28 - actions, issues, rechartering, editor (from krisk@microsoft.com on 2012-07-12)
  13. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-07-11 - actions, issues, task force reports (from mjs@apple.com on 2012-07-11)
  14. ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Straw Poll for Objections (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-07-10)
  15. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-06-30)
  16. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from eoconnor@apple.com on 2012-06-29)
  17. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-06-28 - actions, issues, rechartering, editor (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-06-27)
  18. [minutes] 20120621 HTML Working Group (from plh@w3.org on 2012-06-22)
  19. RE: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-06-21 - actions, issues, surveys, task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-06-22)
  20. 答复: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-06-21 - actions, issues, surveys, task force reports (from eric.sun@huawei.com on 2012-06-21)
  21. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-06-21 - actions, issues, surveys, task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-06-20)
  22. RE: Chair review of the issue-200 legend-placement change proposals (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-06-18)
  23. Re: Chair review of the issue-200 legend-placement change proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-06-14)
  24. Re: Chair review of the issue-200 legend-placement change proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-06-07)
  25. Re: Chair review of the issue-200 legend-placement change proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-04-22)
  26. {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-04-19: issues, decisions, TF reports, Change Proposal reviews (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-04-19)
  27. RE: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-04-19: issues, decisions, TF reports, Change Proposal reviews (from Eliot.Graff@microsoft.com on 2012-04-18)
  28. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-04-19: issues, decisions, TF reports, Change Proposal reviews (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-04-18)
  29. Chair review of the issue-200 legend-placement change proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-04-17)
  30. RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-04-05: issues, survey, decisions, TF reports, F2F, Media TF, ... (from krisk@microsoft.com on 2012-04-05)
  31. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-04-05: issues, survey, decisions, TF reports, F2F, Media TF, ... (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-04-04)
  32. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-03-31)
  33. Re: ISSUE-201: canvas-fallback - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from faulkner.steve@gmail.com on 2012-03-30)
  34. {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-03-29: issue progress, heartbeat publications and revert request, change proposal reviews, upcoming straw poll (from eoconnor@apple.com on 2012-03-29)
  35. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-03-29: issue progress, heartbeat publications and revert request, change proposal reviews, upcoming straw poll (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-03-28)
  36. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-03-28)
  37. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from eoconnor@apple.com on 2012-03-27)
  38. [html-chairs] draft agenda and discussion items (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-03-26)
  39. RE: ISSUE-201: canvas-fallback - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-03-22)
  40. Re: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-03-22 (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-03-22)
  41. {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-03-22 (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-03-22)
  42. Re: ISSUE-201: canvas-fallback - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from eoconnor@apple.com on 2012-03-21)
  43. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-03-22: issue progress, heartbeat drafts, revert request, F2F registration, task force reports (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-03-21)
  44. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from eoconnor@apple.com on 2012-03-13)
  45. {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-03-01: issue progress and heartbeat drafts (from eoconnor@apple.com on 2012-03-01)
  46. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-03-01: issue progress and heartbeat drafts (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-02-29)
  47. ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-02-28)
  48. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-02-24)
  49. [Minutes] (HTML WG telecon 2012-02-23: issue progress, heartbeat drafts, task force reports) (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-02-23)
  50. [Minutes] (HTML WG telecon 2012-02-23: issue progress, heartbeat drafts, task force reports) (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-02-23)
  51. FW: counter proposal for issue 185 (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-02-22)
  52. Re: HTML WG telecon 2012-02-16: issue progress, heartbeat drafts, task force reports (from ian@iandevlin.com on 2012-02-22)
  53. HTML WG telecon 2012-02-16: issue progress, heartbeat drafts, task force reports (from mjs@apple.com on 2012-02-21)
  54. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-02-21)
  55. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-02-21)
  56. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com on 2012-02-21)
  57. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from mtanalin@yandex.ru on 2012-02-21)
  58. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-02-20)
  59. Re: ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-02-20)
  60. [minutes] HTML WG telecon 2012-02-16: issue progress (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-02-16)
  61. HTML WG telecon 2012-02-16: issue progress (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-02-15)
  62. RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2012-02-09: issue progress, task force reports, revert request, new information deadline, F2F (from adrianba@microsoft.com on 2012-02-09)
  63. HTML WG telecon 2012-02-09: issue progress, task force reports, revert request, new information deadline, F2F (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-02-07)
  64. Re: Revised Timeline and New Bug Priority Policy (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-01-23)
  65. HTML WG Minutes (Re: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-01-19: issue progress, other business) (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-01-19)
  66. Re: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-01-19: issue progress, other business (from janina@rednote.net on 2012-01-18)
  67. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2012-01-19: issue progress, other business (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-01-18)
  68. Change in status on 4 bugs (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2012-01-17)
  69. ISSUE-200: legend-placement - Chairs Solicit Proposals (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2012-01-17)
  70. HTML-ISSUE-200 (legend-placement): Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements [HTML 5 spec] (from sysbot+tracker@w3.org on 2012-01-16)

Related notes:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0252.html

Sam Ruby, 20 Feb 2012, 23:59:10

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0262.html

Sam Ruby, 21 Feb 2012, 20:11:42

[glenn]: legend-placement call for Change Proposals closed Feb 16

23 Feb 2012, 17:04:36

[glenn]: legend-placement, Call for Counter Proposals closes Mar 28

22 Mar 2012, 16:08:26

[krisk]: legend-placement, Call for Counter Proposals closed Mar 28

5 Apr 2012, 16:05:52

[glenn]: legend-placement: change proposal reviews

19 Apr 2012, 16:13:03

[krisk]: legend-placement, Revise Change Proposals closes Jul 6

28 Jun 2012, 16:13:23

WG Decisions to pursue this issue as extension specifications, with the possibility of reintegration into HTML 5.0, 5.1, or 5.2 per the reintegration policy: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Oct/0105.html

Sam Ruby, 18 Jan 2013, 16:08:28

Changelog:

Created issue 'Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements' nickname legend-placement owned by Sam Ruby on product HTML 5 spec, description 'Raised on behalf of Marat Tanalin and
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12834 :

Section: "The legend element"
(http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/forms.html#the-legend-element).

Wrong spec part: "Contexts in which this element can be used: As the first
child of a fieldset element."

This is bad and harmful requirement. LEGEND should be allowed to be placed
inside DIV (_common_ container element) as well as after any other element.
"First child" requirement makes many visual designs unimplementable. For
example, DIV-wrapping might be needed to place something to the left of legend
with arbitrary paddings and so on.

Currently, web developers are forced to just _drop_ LEGEND element in such
cases and just use another element (e.g. H2-H6 element) instead of LEGEND when
exactly LEGEND would be more appropriate than H2, but is not allowed just
because "validator said this is invalid".

Spec should not force web developers to use wrong semantic solutions. Using H2
(or any other element) in place of LEGEND (where actually LEGEND is
semantically appropriate) is wrong.

Probable correct description for contexts in which LEGEND can be used:
"First _structural_ (semantic) parent element of LEGEND should be FIELDSET".
This means that FIELSET can contain any number of nested DIV elements, and
LEGEND may be inside one of them as well as (but NOT only allowed) direct
child of FIELDSET, and order of elements (including LEGEND) inside FIELDSET
can be _any_ that is necessary in a specific case (LEGEND should NOT be needed
to be exactly first semantic child of FIELDSET).

Otherwise, LEGEND will be just dropped by web developer in cases when LEGEND
just cannot be exactly first child according to specific visual design layout.' non-public

Sam Ruby, 16 Jan 2012, 23:08:59

Status changed to 'open'

Philippe Le Hégaret, 17 Jan 2012, 18:46:34

Status changed to 'raised'

Philippe Le Hégaret, 17 Jan 2012, 19:13:37

Status changed to 'postponed'

Sam Ruby, 20 Feb 2012, 23:59:10

Status changed to 'raised'

Sam Ruby, 21 Feb 2012, 20:11:42

Status changed to 'open'

Sam Ruby, 24 Feb 2012, 00:38:25

Status changed to 'closed'

Sam Ruby, 18 Jan 2013, 16:08:28


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