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EOWG Minutes
EOWG Minutes 16 July 2004 Meeting
on this page: attendees - outreach updates - intro pages - WAI participation - contacting WAI - next meeting
Meeting Summary
- ACTION items - see discussion below
- Meeting format - participants approved the more structured discussion format for today, following discussion and item raising on the EO mailing list prior to the meeting
Attendees
- AA: Andrew Arch, minutes
- BM: Blossom Michaeloff
- CC: Charmane Corcoran
- HB: Harvey Bingham
- SAZ: Shadi Abou-Zahra
- SD: Sylvie Duchateau
- SLH: Shawn Henry, chair
- SP: Sailesh Panchang
Regrets
- Carol Smith
- Libby Cohen
- Justin Thorp
- Roberto Castaldo
- Chuck Letournou
- Henk Snetselaar
- Helle Bjarnø
- Judy Brewer
Outreach Updates
@@ none????
Intro Pages
Background (from agenda):
discuss issues sent to list per:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2004JulSep/0049.html
All issues sent to the list are reproduced in the Suplementary Agenda
- SLH - looking for feedback from EO for next revisions
- SLH - questions on into pages in general?
1. Introduction to Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG)
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/sketchpad/wcag-intro
- SLH - lets start with Intro to WCAG:
- will there also be an introduction to the WAI Working Groups? not about their specific work (since each WG will have it's own homepage) but rather an overview of which groups are available, what they generally work on, and how to get involved (SAZ)
- SLH - YES - a 'participation page' and a 'working groups' page
- * Side Bar (SAZ)
really dense and crowded! Will users new to WCAG really want to access all these resources from this page or should these links be better done via the WG homepage? (there will also be the navigation bar eating away additional space on the page)
- SLH - this brings out the fact we are trying to use these pages for 2 purposes - 1) information for new users, and 2) navigation to different WCAG documents. Is it a good idea to have a single page to serve these 2 purposes? If yes, then is the title not quite right (Intro to ...)?
- SLH - what about having 2 purposes?
- SAZ - gets confusing
- SAZ - not enough about the techniques - need to expand
- HB - all looks good to me
- SAZ - didn't see that the side bar stuff was discussed
- AA - seems that presentational order is causiing the confusion
- SLH - back to the dual-purpose question - does it work?
- CC - what about changing name to "Overview of ..."
- SLH - what about the text vs the sidebar menu?
- SLH - we intended to link to this page whenever we referred to WCAG - what are the pros/cons of having both the text and the links on one page?
- HB - like them together
- CC - want to see overview and then navigate to destination
- SLH - often, people only get limited information, but not enough - this gives a lot of info.
- SP - I hear the navigation menu (sidebar) first
- SLH - there will be a table of contents for the page
- * What is WCAG (SAZ)
it might be good to explain more about how the Guidelines and the Techniques documents work together already at this stage
- * WCAG 1.0 and WCAG 2.0 (SAZ)
this might be better handled later in the document and with a different heading such as current status (or work) for example.
- * What is in WCAG 1.0 (SAZ)
looks good. complements the "What is WCAG" section and therefore might be better placed directly after it.
- SAZ - under supporting docs - there is a FAQ about WCAG - is this meant to be specific to WCAG 1.0?
- SLH - yes - will fix
- AA - WCAG 1 and WCAG 2 may become an <h2> if we restructure like this - then it will appear in the page table of contents.
- AA - vote for moving 'what is in wcag1' up the order
- all agreed
- * Technical Specification Format (SAZ)
horrible title! (i know that you don't want word smithing right now but i just couldn't resist flagging such a heading)
- SLH - suggestions??
- SAZ - "about W3C technical specs"
- CC - 'specifications' seems jargony
- SLH - what about "W3C technical document format"?
- * Who develops WCAG (SAZ)
do we also want to explain how WCAG is developed? maybe in the "introduction to the WAI groups" i mentioned above?
- SAZ - suggesting that 'Doc Format' and 'Who develops' could be combined
- CC - good idea
- SLH - new content plan is for a doc on the process
- BM - could the last bits be reframed to talk about how the Specs pages are arranged?
- SLH - we also need to say why they are different from the rest of the WAI site
- SLH - will try redrafting based on this discussion
- The current wording (CL)
Section: WCAG 1.0 and WCAG 2.0, para. 2:
An advanced version, WCAG 2.0, is in development. WCAG 2.0 is being developed to be broadly applicable to different developing technologies and have increased usability and understandability, as documented in Requirements for WCAG 2.0
- Concerns with the current wording
First sentence seems redundant in light of the second sentence.
Second sentence has the "bility" problem that I find jargony (and annoying).
- Suggestions for revision ... something like:
WCAG 2.0 is being developed to apply to different emerging technologies and to be more usable and easier to understand, as documented in Requirements for WCAG 2.0
- Reasons for the revision
See Concerns, above.
- SLH - will consider and accommodate as appropriate
- SP - primary users should be more specific
- Title - lets reconsider
- Overview / About / Introduction - discussion please
- CC - about is overused and hence leads to confusion - vote for overview
- ALL agree
2. Introduction to the Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Overview Slide Show
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/wai-intro-slides
What is the WAI Overview Slide Show
- The end of first sentence could be clearer: "...a number of participation options, and action steps to consider." Participation to what and which action steps? (CC)
- Suggestion: how to participate in the work of WAI or different ways to participate in WAI work; action steps to consider to improve Web accessibility. (CC)
- SD - shouldn't we be more precise on the goal of the slide show - maybe not the whole text, but a precis of it
- CC - actually going to remove a couple of slide as a result of doing this page
- SLH - what about dropping "a number of participation options, and action steps to consider." as we have the bullets following
- AA - as participation is a slide, then we can add it to the bulleted list
- SLH - lets use Sylvie's wording for the bullets - ACTION
How to use the HTML slide show.
- The explanation of the different navigation buttons are not clear when not seeing the images and reading text equivalent. With a screen reader it reads: "To back up, use the left-arrow button sample image of left arrow button ("Back to..." link)."
- Suggestion: replace text equivalent "sample image of left arrow button" by
alt=""".
- Or: To back up, use the alt="left-arrow button"
("Back to..." link)."
- Same suggestions for the following buttons.
- lots of discussion about relative value of images, alt text, title attribute value
- SLH - "To back up use 'image' (with its actual alt text)
- CC - take discussion on board and resubmit to group
The current wording
- Section: What is the WAI Overview Slide Show, para .1:
The Overview of the Web Accessibility Initiative HTML slide show introduces the broad area of Web accessibility, as well as the World Wide Web Consortium, the Web Accessibility Initiative, a number of participation options, and action steps to consider.
- Concerns with the current wording
Is it possible to "introduce an area"? I've heard of introducing a concept or topic, but not an area. I also think the sentence is too long.
- Suggestions for revision
The Overview of the Web Accessibility Initiative HTML slide show introduces the broad concept of Web accessibility, as well as the World Wide Web Consortium and the Web Accessibility Initiative. It also describes a number of participation options and action steps to consider.
- Reasons for the revision
The suggested changes might make the paragraph easier to read.
- Many accepted already
- SLH - what about "broad concept" - is it needed?
- CC - yes - accessibility is broad
- editors discretion
- SLH - change "The slide show may help answer " to "The slide show answers
3. Introduction to Notes on Accessibility Features of W3C Technologies
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/sketchpad/techs-intro
In the navigation bar, the parts "contents" and "documents" could be headings (like h2). In this version, it is not clear when the note ends and if the "documents" section is a section as itself or if it still belongs to the note.
- AA - approach may depend on visual design
The navigation links in contents which are anchors do not have the same
text as the heading they lead to, which seems to me to be confusing.
Example: the anchor link "About W3C Technologies" leads to "Accessibility
of W3C Technologies"
Developers leads to "Who develops these Notes".
Suggestion: change text of link "About W3C Technologies" in "Accessibility
of W3C Technologies".
Change link text: "developers" in "Who develops these Notes".
- AA - apologises for editing in a hurry to meet the meeting timeline - will correct
Some anchor links do not work properly such as: "references", "scalable
vector graphics".
- AA - these are documents still to be written - just place holding links at present
In section : "Accessibility of W3C Technologies" at the end of first
paragraph the link [1] does not work. What is it for?
- AA - should have been removed (sorry)
Section "Accessibility Features of scalable vector graphics". First
paragraph.
a) The current wording: "SVG is an Extensible Markup Language (XML) application for producing Web graphics which offers a number of features to make graphics on the Web more accessible than is currently possible, to a wider group of users.
b) Concerns with current wording: sentence is too long and not clear to me.
c) Suggestion: I don't have suggestions.
Next sentence:
a) current wording: "Users who benefit include users with low vision, color
blind or blind users, and users of assistive technologies."
b) Concerns : not homogeneous as we talk from users with low vision, then
color blind or blind users. Those also use assistive technologies.
c) suggestions for revision:
Users who benefit include low vision users (or visually impaired users), color blind or blind users, and other users of assistive technologies.
or: Users who benefit include users with low vision, with color blindness or blindness, and other users of assistive technologies."
d) Reasons for the revision: it assumes that visually impaired users, color blind and blind users do not use assistive technologies
Suggestions for revision
When this document gets a copy edit about half the commas ought to be deleted
Concerns with the current wording
The tone of this document is different from the other two (Intro to Overview Slides, Intro to WCAG). I mention this as a concern only if the WG is aiming for a close consistency of tone across the intro document suite. The subject matter of this page is more technical than the others and the tone may be appropriate.
- Suggestions for revision
None. I don't have a feel for how strongly the WG wants consistency of tone maintained. This will always be a challenge when different editors are making contributions.
- title - change to "overview ..."
- ACTION - WSTF to reconsider tone of collection of documents
ACTION - Where does XML accessibility sit? Here or elsewhere? (BH)
4. Introduction to the W3C Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines
ATAG - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/sketchpad/atag
- CC - Audience - "should" could be taken the wrong way - can we say it more positively / encouragingly that currently
- SLH - WCAG had a section "who wcag is for" - change atag to reflect this
- SLH - is "guideline in brief" ok"
- AA - "what is in" would almost substitute
- SLH - is the tone difference between WCAG & ATAG too different
- AA - different audiences lead to different tones
- CC - may be easier to tell when we change the headings
Participating in WAI, minor revisions
Background (from agenda):
- draft revised: www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/participation
- current version: www.w3.org/WAI/participation
Minutes:
no discussion today - held over
Contacting WAI, minor revisions
Background (from agenda):
- draft revised: www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/contacts
- current version: www.w3.org/WAI/contacts
Minutes:
no discussion today - held over
Next Meeting
23 July 2004