Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Pre-CFC - Updating "programmatically determined link context"

Hey Scott,
Thank you for this clarification. Does that then mean that if a link is
inside a heading, the rest of the heading text would not serve as context
for that link? Am I reading that definition correctly? The spec text is a
little confusing to me. The examples explicitly say heading content isn't
part of a paragraph, but the definition of paragraph doesn't mention
headings. Does that distinction matter to screen readers?

On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 2:22 PM Scott O'Hara <scott.ohara@microsoft.com>
wrote:

> Hi Wilco,
>
>
>
> I think there’s been a misunderstanding/incorrect assumption, as the
> linking to ‘paragraph’ is not to the paragraph element as you mention in
> your email.
>
>
>
> Rather this is linking to the ‘paragraph’ term in the ‘Paragraphs’ section
> of the spec.  Just above the linked paragraph term is the note:
>
> *The term **paragraph*
> <https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#paragraph>* as defined
> in this section is used for more than just the definition of the *p
> <https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/grouping-content.html#the-p-element>* element.
> The **paragraph*
> <https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#paragraph>* concept
> defined here is used to describe how to interpret documents. The *p
> <https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/grouping-content.html#the-p-element>* element
> is merely one of several ways of marking up a **paragraph*
> <https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#paragraph>*.*
>
>
>
> The section goes on to describe various ways to mark up paragraphs, one
> example demonstrating how a block of code contains 5 implicit paragraphs
> where the p element isn’t used at all.
>
>
>
> I trust this resolves your concern.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 17, 2023 6:22 AM
> *To: *Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> *Cc: *WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Re: Pre-CFC - Updating "programmatically determined
> link context"
>
>
>
> You don't often get email from wilco.fiers@deque.com. Learn why this is
> important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
>
> Hey Alastair,
> I'm just putting this side by side with the corresponding ACT rule Link in
> context is descriptive (
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/act/rules/5effbb/proposed/#programmatically-determined-link-context
> ).
>
> Couple things stand out to me. The big one is linking paragraph to the <p>
> element. In the testing we did for that rule that didn't seem to matter to
> assistive technologies. Screen readers have methods for reading out the
> parent text block. Whether that is a p element or not seemed irrelevant.
> Unless our testing was wrong (or I'm misremembering?) I don't think we
> should be quite so narrow as to limit to only HTML p elements, which is
> what we're suggesting by adding that link.
>
> I do agree with listitem over list. That was a thing that had occurred to
> the folks working on this ACT Rule too and is already in the rule. One
> addition they had also made which should probably be considered as part of
> this update is to add aria-describedby. That's one of the most direct ways
> to give context to a link.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 5:55 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> In a meeting we agreed to add an errata for the definition of "programmatically
> determined link context
> <https://w3c.github.io/wcag/guidelines/#dfn-programmatically-determined-link-context>",
> in the example.
>
>
>
> The core point was that paragraph and table cell are one type of thing,
> but the example in the definition uses the term "list" instead of "list
> item".
>
>
>
> The change in PR 3362 <https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3362/files> makes
> it 'list item', and adds a link to the HTML definition of paragraph (as
> this is an HTML example).
>
>
>
> We discussed that here:
>
> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/19-ag-minutes#t05
>
>
>
> It sailed through the meeting agreement, but before I CFC that does anyone
> have any concerns with that update?
>
>
>
> It would apply to all WCAG 2.x versions.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> -Alastair
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> @alastc / www.nomensa.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Wilco Fiers*
>
> Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager - Facilitator
> ACT Task Force
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Wilco Fiers*
Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager - Facilitator
ACT Task Force